Searching for Anna - #1

[itsreenw]

OK..gottem done....I can't email till I get home, don't have your address at work...if you need them before tonight, email me at work christinejones@numail.org and I'll send the layovers to ya

OR, should I just post up here? Not sure you wanted me to do that?



ETA-mailed last night, did you get them??

Hey Christine, how funny. I hadn't seen this til tonight but I did email you from work yesterday. Hope you saved the email addy. It has my first initial MARRIED LAST NAME (STARTS WITH L) and had .gov at the end. If you thought it was spam it wasnt :O) I didn't get them. Can you email them to me again tonight-at my home email AND post em here? You're a doll! Thanks much!!

 

[SherlockJr]

I have a question concerning the logistics of obtaining a birth certificate in the early-to-mid 1970's.

In most cases, a child is born in a hospital and they handle the paperwork concerning a birth certificate. However, a girl that is Anna's age would have been born at the apex of the hippie generation and numerous births occured outside the usual hospital scenario (such as at-home or in a commune). Due to the desire by many young people to "drop-out" of mainstream society, it is probable that many children did not obtain certificates at birth. However, as the children reached school age and the parents decided that maybe they should send their children to school, they must have needed to "re-enter" society and have an "after-the-fact" birth certificate issued. It would seem that such certificates would lack many of the usual information that BC's contain and would have to be issued on faith that the info provided was accurate.

Could this be a simple explaination of how a birth certificate may have been obtained for Anna by her abductors? Is anyone familiar with this process and are my assumptions feasible?

Another girl I am working with helping to find her birthfamily was told the woman who raised her had to find 10 witnesses to sign stating the length of time she was raising this child as her own. But she still never got a b/c. The woman did not even adopt her, only filed for guardianship over her. Later, she had one heck of a time at the Social Security Office applying for a SSN. The SSA employee finally lied on the application and checked off saying he/she verified the b/c.

 

[itsreenw]

I have a question concerning the logistics of obtaining a birth certificate in the early-to-mid 1970's.

In most cases, a child is born in a hospital and they handle the paperwork concerning a birth certificate. However, a girl that is Anna's age would have been born at the apex of the hippie generation and numerous births occured outside the usual hospital scenario (such as at-home or in a commune). Due to the desire by many young people to "drop-out" of mainstream society, it is probable that many children did not obtain certificates at birth. However, as the children reached school age and the parents decided that maybe they should send their children to school, they must have needed to "re-enter" society and have an "after-the-fact" birth certificate issued. It would seem that such certificates would lack many of the usual information that BC's contain and would have to be issued on faith that the info provided was accurate.

Could this be a simple explaination of how a birth certificate may have been obtained for Anna by her abductors? Is anyone familiar with this process and are my assumptions feasible?

Dr. Doogie, I have learned quite a bit about birth certs from my job dealing with licenses and IDs. Now I am doing birth family searches and this happened quite often.
First, there are a few types of birth certs. Hospital, State/County and although not an actual birth cert, agencies used to accept Baptismal Certs as Birth Certs. Baptismal certs are issued by church officials at the time of baptism.

The Hospital Cert is exactly that. The original was given to the parents after the child was born and a copy was sent from the hospital to appropriate vital records dept.

In situations that you speak of when the birth was outside the hospital, a midwife or attendant was given the authority to issue a birth cert and the parents were supposed to file a copy with the vital records dept. If the parents never filed the copy or in situations where there was no midwife, a delayed birth certificate could be issued if you could be convincing enough that you were who you said you were and sufficient proof was given of your existence. Things like parents names, mother's maiden name, date, time, place of birth, name of siblings, address. Basic info that you can make up. And of course, by telling the clerk "You know I/my child was born, I'm/he/she am/is standing here talking to you". (we stiil get that one at the DMV) LOL

For the first 15 yrs of my life we used my Baptismal Certificate for everything. It was a long strip of paper, probably 11x5 with Baptismal Ceritficate in black letters on top and me and my parents info on it. And my baby feet prints off to the side. I was born the same year as Anna and I do know we used my baptismal cert to enroll me in kindergarten. My mom kept that stuff in an envelope. It was still there when she died in 1992. No birth cert was with it.

 

[Annasmom]

Dr. Doogie, I have learned quite a bit about birth certs from my job dealing with licenses and IDs. Now I am doing birth family searches and this happened quite often. In situations that you speak of when the birth was outside the hospital, a midwife or attendant was given the authority to issue a birth cert and the parents were supposed to file a copy with the vital records dept. If the parents never filed the copy or in situations where there was no midwife, a delayed birth certificate could be issued if you could be convincing enough that you were who you said you were and sufficient proof was given of your existence. Things like parents names, mother's maiden name, date, time, place of birth, name of siblings, address. Basic info that you can make up. And of course, by telling the clerk "You know I/my child was born, I'm/he/she am/is standing here talking to you". (we stiil get that one at the DMV) LOL

I don't have a birth certificate. When I first applied for a passport, I had to get a notarized statement from my father that he was present at my birth, and this is what I have used for almost fifty years. My sons, who were born abroad, just have a statement from the consulate saying that they were born to an American citizen. Another document of interest is the California Confidential Record of Church Marriage. This apparently was supposed to protect the reputations of some women up to at least the 1970s. The records (and consequently the date) were sealed and could only be divulged by court order. These marriages do not appear in Vital Records, of course.

 

[christine2448]

Hey Christine, how funny. I hadn't seen this til tonight but I did email you from work yesterday. Hope you saved the email addy. It has my first initial MARRIED LAST NAME (STARTS WITH L) and had .gov at the end. If you thought it was spam it wasnt :O) I didn't get them. Can you email them to me again tonight-at my home email AND post em here? You're a doll! Thanks much!!

I emailed them last night, dang, you didn't get them?

PM me your email address, maybe I'm replying to the wrong one. I'll resend and also post them when I get home from work tonight.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Just a little post-election note: Jerry Brown has been elected California's new Attorney General. As Joe Ford mentioned a while back, he was an acquaintence of JB's back in the 1960's. This means that we may have an "in" with the AG's office to get certain things accomplished in the search for Anna.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

For a brief moment, a series of pictures comparing this new adoptee with Anna were posted here. At my request, those pictures were removed. This is because we do not have the expressed permission of the adoptee to post those and want to respect her wishes. That situation will hopefully change in the near future where the photos can be posted for general viewing, but right now is not that time.

I apologize for not noticing the series of posts that lead to the pictures being posted here. No one is "in trouble" and I recognize that everyone involved was trying to be helpful - it is just that most people were not aware of the adoptee's wishes.

 

[Joe Ford]

Just a little post-election note: Jerry Brown has been elected California's new Attorney General. As Joe Ford mentioned a while back, he was an acquaintence of JB's back in the 1960's. This means that we may have an "in" with the AG's office to get certain things accomplished in the search for Anna.

I am waiting for the post election dust (not to mention mud) to settle before attempting to contact J.B. It would probably be best to request specific actions on his part. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Keeping the faith, Joe

 

[christine2448]

For a brief moment, a series of pictures comparing this new adoptee with Anna were posted here. At my request, those pictures were removed. This is because we do not have the expressed permission of the adoptee to post those and want to respect her wishes. That situation will hopefully change in the near future where the photos can be posted for general viewing, but right now is not that time.

I apologize for not noticing the series of posts that lead to the pictures being posted here. No one is "in trouble" and I recognize that everyone involved was trying to be helpful - it is just that most people were not aware of the adoptee's wishes.

:slap:

Thanks Doogie.

They were up for a very short time, you were quick in catching it.

 

[Annasmom]

I am waiting for the post election dust (not to mention mud) to settle before attempting to contact J.B. It would probably be best to request specific actions on his part. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Keeping the faith, Joe

Yes! Speeding up the DNA test (not even scheduled yet), getting the passport information, possibly getting us in the National Cold Case program.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I agree that the DNA test may be the specific thing that the AG office can help with. As most of you know, comparisons usually take a matter of months to complete (based on backload). It would be nice to cut in line.

 

[Shadow205]

I agree that the DNA test may be the specific thing that the AG office can help with. As most of you know, comparisons usually take a matter of months to complete (based on backload). It would be nice to cut in line.

Doogie,

How about using a private lab for the testing. CHeck out this link http://www.genetree.com/freeKit.php

 

[SherlockJr]

I agree that the DNA test may be the specific thing that the AG office can help with. As most of you know, comparisons usually take a matter of months to complete (based on backload). It would be nice to cut in line.

Someday will will be seeing drive thru DNA labs.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Someday will will be seeing drive thru DNA labs.

I am still waiting for my hovercraft they promised me back when I was kid that was supposed to be available by now. Not to mention the 10 hour work weeks... :furious:

 

[Annasmom]

Doogie,

How about using a private lab for the testing. CHeck out this link http://www.genetree.com/freeKit.php

I think that to be included on the national DNA database (which is the only thing that will help us in identification), the DNA must be collected by legal authority. Gerry Nance at the NCMEC wrote "I am sorry San Mateo has not yet collected a sample. We collect samples but as a courtesy States can make their own collections and we will not normally solicit collections. CA is one of the states that prefers to collect on its cases when the contributor is still in CA. CA is also one of the few states striving to collect samples from the unidentified remains." As you know, the sheriff's department has contacted us about this, but apparently is not yet ready to take the samples, though Anna's brothers and I have all agreed to the test.

 

[Shadow205]

I think that to be included on the national DNA database (which is the only thing that will help us in identification), the DNA must be collected by legal authority. Gerry Nance at the NCMEC wrote "I am sorry San Mateo has not yet collected a sample. We collect samples but as a courtesy States can make their own collections and we will not normally solicit collections. CA is one of the states that prefers to collect on its cases when the contributor is still in CA. CA is also one of the few states striving to collect samples from the unidentified remains." As you know, the sheriff's department has contacted us about this, but apparently is not yet ready to take the samples, though Anna's brothers and I have all agreed to the test.

Annamom,
Yes, I understand that it must be done that way to be included in the National DNA database. I was just refering to the possible match to Anna. If things continue to look like she could be Anna, I thought maybe going through a private source might be quicker to determine if she is Anna rather then wait weeks or months. If she would agree to that.

 

[SherlockJr]

Annamom,
Yes, I understand that it must be done that way to be included in the National DNA database. I was just refering to the possible match to Anna. If things continue to look like she could be Anna, I thought maybe going through a private source might be quicker to determine if she is Anna rather then wait weeks or months. If she would agree to that.

Shadow, this is true. The adoptee who was sent for DNA comparision in Melissa Highsmith case did not get results for 6 months. This is far too long to wait (ok, I can hear it now... patience) unless it was the lab that was used in TX.

 

[Shadow205]

That is why I suggested the DNA Testing Lab in the above link. Here is a little from there site:

DNA Maternity Test
only $245
Questions about maternity are a lot more common than people realize. If you were adopted, or or raised by a single father, you may one day meet someone claiming to be your biological mother.
How can you know for sure? GeneTree's Maternity Test can give you answers that are more than 99% accurate. They can put the unsettling matters to rest so you can move on with your life. A simple swab of your cheek and your alleged mother's, and you'll know if this stranger is really family.

• Accurate: 99.9% reliability
• Low Cost: High quality services at a competitive price
• Fast Results: in 3-9 days
• Convenient: At-home cheek swab collection
• Easy: Telephone Support (888) 404-GENE
• FREE Overnight Delivery: Included with prepaid services

</FONT>http://www.genetree.com/relationship/maternity.php

 

[Dr. Doogie]

As long as Maury Povich doesn't come to your door with the results, this looks like a good possibilty for quick answers.

 

[Rhett]

My friend used a private company like this. It was accurate, easy, and fast. All tests and results remain confidential of course. I think this is a good suggestion if the person in question will go along with it.