Season 2 Episode 10
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leslievernon
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this seems like a good place for a summary..
i was not totally impressed with everything that KZ said, but there are a few strong points that would justify a new hearing imo:
-TH was miles away from SA when the attack should have happened
-SAs DNA from the hoodlatch comes from an "unknown source".. you really have to savour that
+ there seems to be an error in chain of custody reg. SAs buccal swaps (gotta read the documents)
-BD leaves at basically the same time as TH leaves
-BDs computer... jesus, i gasped at some of the images. it's even worse than previously thought
-the darn phone records.. and who called last or PMed last, who deleted...?
-a .22 caliber bullet demonstrably cannot exit a skull
-the bullet holes, shot from outside the garage, rather than inside
-again, no bone material in the bullet fragments
-the blood (car) just don't "connect", literally... how can you bleed here but not there...
well... feel free to add to that list.
considering how tough it is to convince a jury that somebody was really framed like that... i truly think he has a chance... great job btw from zellner and her team. she did everything she could. let's see what her next step will be.
i was not totally impressed with everything that KZ said, but there are a few strong points that would justify a new hearing imo:
-TH was miles away from SA when the attack should have happened
-SAs DNA from the hoodlatch comes from an "unknown source".. you really have to savour that
+ there seems to be an error in chain of custody reg. SAs buccal swaps (gotta read the documents)
-BD leaves at basically the same time as TH leaves
-BDs computer... jesus, i gasped at some of the images. it's even worse than previously thought
-the darn phone records.. and who called last or PMed last, who deleted...?
-a .22 caliber bullet demonstrably cannot exit a skull
-the bullet holes, shot from outside the garage, rather than inside
-again, no bone material in the bullet fragments
-the blood (car) just don't "connect", literally... how can you bleed here but not there...
well... feel free to add to that list.
considering how tough it is to convince a jury that somebody was really framed like that... i truly think he has a chance... great job btw from zellner and her team. she did everything she could. let's see what her next step will be.
On the blood disconnect, could it be that blood was left after a clean up?
I am having some difficulty getting my head round the blood being obtained from the sink
1. this meant someone needed to have known SA had bled in that sink AND not cleaned it up
2. they would have had to then go get it when it was still wet , yet there was wet AND dry FLAKES found in the car that belonged to SA
3. SA saw tail lights and head lights yet didn't think to go check his trailer
The Computer is discribed as the Dassey computer, and mention is made of Bobbie having the most access to the computer but also it is stated that Brendan also had access although not as much, could he have seen the images? is that where the rape and torture description in his confession came from?
I am having some difficulty getting my head round the blood being obtained from the sink
1. this meant someone needed to have known SA had bled in that sink AND not cleaned it up
2. they would have had to then go get it when it was still wet , yet there was wet AND dry FLAKES found in the car that belonged to SA
3. SA saw tail lights and head lights yet didn't think to go check his trailer
The Computer is discribed as the Dassey computer, and mention is made of Bobbie having the most access to the computer but also it is stated that Brendan also had access although not as much, could he have seen the images? is that where the rape and torture description in his confession came from?
Sheenaisapunkrocker
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Bobby was the only person that was home during the times those sites were accessed.
If DS/JB had only known! This was another huge blunder. The DA office downplayed that evidence and labeled it as "Brendan's computer".
TheyDontSee
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Bobby is looking pretty guilty to me. I wonder what his relationship with Tadych is like.
If you pause at 19:09, you'll see Brendan D. was using the username "nigerforlife" ....uhm...what??
Sometimes you gotta pause when they flash documents on the screen. They'll highlight one part but then another part will catch my eye as even MORE interesting.
If you pause at 19:09, you'll see Brendan D. was using the username "nigerforlife" ....uhm...what??
Sometimes you gotta pause when they flash documents on the screen. They'll highlight one part but then another part will catch my eye as even MORE interesting.
missy1974
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So I'm cheating and reading here but I haven't finished watching yet!
The blood in the RAV4... I thought it was interesting to see the discussion with KZ and her experts, specifically about the RAV4 blood. @FairM1 I also have some issues with the sink blood, BUT... without going back and looking, I am pretty sure that Bobby was around the house/garage at that time. I think one of the boys went with Steven and Chuck to Menards too. The only way I can see this theory working is if Bobby was in the area or with them, saw that SA opened up this gash and was bleeding, and saw him go in and come back out of his trailer. I can actually think this is plausible, BUT, I don't think Bobby had a syringe or pipette like KZ and her experts used.. the only thing I can think of is maybe a dropper of some sort. If I look in my medicine cabinet, I can find a dropper or 2, but not sure everyone would have something like that around? lol
I actually got the impression that KZ had to abandon the "age test" for the blood because they didn't think it would be enough or it would be degraded, so she had no choice but to go with another theory. Now, could that blood have been left with something else? like a rag? I would like to see if someone could make a drop like the back passenger door drop with a rag or cloth or some sort.
Either way, the fact that there is blood in certain spots, but not others, is crazy to me. I just can't find a reasonable explanation for it. Even if he cleaned, then deposited blood, then why is there none on the doors or elsewhere?
The blood in the RAV4... I thought it was interesting to see the discussion with KZ and her experts, specifically about the RAV4 blood. @FairM1 I also have some issues with the sink blood, BUT... without going back and looking, I am pretty sure that Bobby was around the house/garage at that time. I think one of the boys went with Steven and Chuck to Menards too. The only way I can see this theory working is if Bobby was in the area or with them, saw that SA opened up this gash and was bleeding, and saw him go in and come back out of his trailer. I can actually think this is plausible, BUT, I don't think Bobby had a syringe or pipette like KZ and her experts used.. the only thing I can think of is maybe a dropper of some sort. If I look in my medicine cabinet, I can find a dropper or 2, but not sure everyone would have something like that around? lol
I actually got the impression that KZ had to abandon the "age test" for the blood because they didn't think it would be enough or it would be degraded, so she had no choice but to go with another theory. Now, could that blood have been left with something else? like a rag? I would like to see if someone could make a drop like the back passenger door drop with a rag or cloth or some sort.
Either way, the fact that there is blood in certain spots, but not others, is crazy to me. I just can't find a reasonable explanation for it. Even if he cleaned, then deposited blood, then why is there none on the doors or elsewhere?
Sheenaisapunkrocker
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As I understand, none of TH' DNA was found in the front of the car. That is another head-scratcher IMO.
Can Bobby still be arrested for the child *advertiser censored* found on the PC? Probably not.
LifeCitizen
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I've finished and this episode blew me away.
In conclusion-
I had no idea the images on Bobby Dasseys computer were like that! I thought they were just normal garden variety *advertiser censored* pics. I was seriously like WTF.
KK knew those images would change everything if the jury saw them. So he created an index which didn't match anyone else's and wrote it up as Brendans computer and 7 cds. There were never 7 cds but 7 dvds and 1 cd, and Fassbender never turned over the cd.
I knew KK was a major creep and that he made up the narrative about Teresa being raped, tortured, had her throat cut and was shot in the head but this one act was truly evil- it changed everything.
I didn't notice in MaM1, the way he eyeballed the coroner when she took the stand- his beady little eyes intimidating her will be etched in my memory forever. That she was locked out of the crime scene and could have been arrested if she had tried to go to there to do her lawful job beggars belief.
I cried for Papa Avery, what a broken man- he loves Mama Avery and wants Steven to be home to look after her. When he said he just wants to give Steve a big hug, I cried for him. Him and Mama Avery are good, decent hard working people and it makes me so mad their family is looked down on in Manitwoc. Yes they are uneducated but they are not stupid. Far from it. Yes the family has had it's problems but their children's choices have nothing to do with them (SA in his youth, the sex abuse with the brothers etc) and even if you think SA and BD are guilty, what they have gone through is nothing short of heart breaking.
It's an extremely sad case and a huge miscarriage of justice.
Zellner was AMAZING- she tore the prosecutions case apart. She was meticulous.
In conclusion-
I had no idea the images on Bobby Dasseys computer were like that! I thought they were just normal garden variety *advertiser censored* pics. I was seriously like WTF.
KK knew those images would change everything if the jury saw them. So he created an index which didn't match anyone else's and wrote it up as Brendans computer and 7 cds. There were never 7 cds but 7 dvds and 1 cd, and Fassbender never turned over the cd.
I knew KK was a major creep and that he made up the narrative about Teresa being raped, tortured, had her throat cut and was shot in the head but this one act was truly evil- it changed everything.
I didn't notice in MaM1, the way he eyeballed the coroner when she took the stand- his beady little eyes intimidating her will be etched in my memory forever. That she was locked out of the crime scene and could have been arrested if she had tried to go to there to do her lawful job beggars belief.
I cried for Papa Avery, what a broken man- he loves Mama Avery and wants Steven to be home to look after her. When he said he just wants to give Steve a big hug, I cried for him. Him and Mama Avery are good, decent hard working people and it makes me so mad their family is looked down on in Manitwoc. Yes they are uneducated but they are not stupid. Far from it. Yes the family has had it's problems but their children's choices have nothing to do with them (SA in his youth, the sex abuse with the brothers etc) and even if you think SA and BD are guilty, what they have gone through is nothing short of heart breaking.
It's an extremely sad case and a huge miscarriage of justice.
Zellner was AMAZING- she tore the prosecutions case apart. She was meticulous.
missy1974
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So I found some answers to a few of my questions with KZ's question/answers that she did today on twitter!
I had wondered if it was possible that a rag was used to clean up the blood and be used to deposit the sink blood. Someone asked about blood... her answer:
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer No, the blood in the sink was not necessarily coagulated. It takes 15 minutes. If it were removed with a wet rag it could be easily dripped into the Rav within 15 to 20 minutes
So she has explored that. When thinking of the time constraint...
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer The person who removed the blood was aware that Steven's wound had reopened.
I do think that Bobby was around that evening, I will have to go back to interviews or affidavits, but I do believe that Bobby was there when SA/Chuck asked if anyone wanted to go Menards with them.
After the brainfingerprinting thing in one of the early episodes, I was convinced that KZ did that more for herself than to help SA's case... here is one of her answers:
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer When I first interviewed him. I then subsequently confirmed what I believed through the brain fingerprinting.
And another interesting tidbit from her today:
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer Yes, luminol can be used years later to detect blood evidence. We have done luminol testing in the Dassey garage and we are waiting for the results of the DNA swabs that we collected.
I still need to go look to see what KZ was talking about with the other 2 piles of bones in the Manitowoc County quarry where the pelvic bone was found.
I had wondered if it was possible that a rag was used to clean up the blood and be used to deposit the sink blood. Someone asked about blood... her answer:
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer No, the blood in the sink was not necessarily coagulated. It takes 15 minutes. If it were removed with a wet rag it could be easily dripped into the Rav within 15 to 20 minutes
So she has explored that. When thinking of the time constraint...
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer The person who removed the blood was aware that Steven's wound had reopened.
I do think that Bobby was around that evening, I will have to go back to interviews or affidavits, but I do believe that Bobby was there when SA/Chuck asked if anyone wanted to go Menards with them.
After the brainfingerprinting thing in one of the early episodes, I was convinced that KZ did that more for herself than to help SA's case... here is one of her answers:
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer When I first interviewed him. I then subsequently confirmed what I believed through the brain fingerprinting.
And another interesting tidbit from her today:
#AskZellner @MakingAMurderer Yes, luminol can be used years later to detect blood evidence. We have done luminol testing in the Dassey garage and we are waiting for the results of the DNA swabs that we collected.
I still need to go look to see what KZ was talking about with the other 2 piles of bones in the Manitowoc County quarry where the pelvic bone was found.
leslievernon
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great job, missy.
i just thought if everything is up for debate, did the defense have a chance to re-test any of the charred bones, if that is even possible... ? we discussed that in another thread, but the only identification that it was teresa halbach was from a piece of bone that they tested.. right?
i just thought if everything is up for debate, did the defense have a chance to re-test any of the charred bones, if that is even possible... ? we discussed that in another thread, but the only identification that it was teresa halbach was from a piece of bone that they tested.. right?
missy1974
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Right. And again, without going to look again, I believe they only matched partially. I do not think that KZ has tested the bones, and I am not sure that she believes it isn't Teresa, or at least publicly isn't stating that. I think she may have asked the State for pelvic bone early on in their discussion/negotations, but it never got to that point before the Judge ruled against an evidentiary hearing, and now it's stuck at the appeal level, she said today she will file the appeal on December 20th. If there is new information (sounds like they are doing some testing of blood from the Dassey garage), she said she would file with the county court again. She was supposed to file by November something or other ... but she asked for an extension.
LifeCitizen
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'Bobby is looking pretty guilty to me. I wonder what his relationship with Tadych is like.'
They seemed fine in MaM.
Could both ST and Bobby D both be lying to Barb? Surely she would know if they were lying to her?
Bobby had two different accounts of what happened that day ie told LE the last he saw, was Teresa heading towards Steve's place. But he also told one of the other brothers (I want to say Bryan) that he saw her leave the property.
He looks guilty to me especially after learning more about all those gruesome images he was looking at.
Him and Tadych alibied each other.
But I also think RH was involved so I don't know. It's all really confusing. I would give my right arm to find out what happened to Teresa.
They seemed fine in MaM.
Could both ST and Bobby D both be lying to Barb? Surely she would know if they were lying to her?
Bobby had two different accounts of what happened that day ie told LE the last he saw, was Teresa heading towards Steve's place. But he also told one of the other brothers (I want to say Bryan) that he saw her leave the property.
He looks guilty to me especially after learning more about all those gruesome images he was looking at.
Him and Tadych alibied each other.
But I also think RH was involved so I don't know. It's all really confusing. I would give my right arm to find out what happened to Teresa.
LifeCitizen
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Another thing that blew me away, which I had heard before but not from Zellner, was the witness who saw Teresa's car on the side of the road. Apparently he reported it to Colburn.
proudfootz
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That story does a lot to make sense of the incident where Colburn calls in Teresa's license plate. I'll have to review the program to get a better understanding of the geography. I found the animated maps very helpful understanding how the dogs performed.
keeponsearching
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Oh man, this is a tough case. I feel for the family of Teresa. I watched Brendons interrogation, and can't imagine that being legal.
I have not finish the new series. But I am leaning towards another family member. I think Teresa was held at gun point while driving around, which is possibly why the dogs picked up the scent.
I don't think that SA could burn a body, right in his yard, as he was cleaning up blood all over the place, talking to his girlfriend, and not worrying if someone could stop by at any giving moment.
I have not finish the new series. But I am leaning towards another family member. I think Teresa was held at gun point while driving around, which is possibly why the dogs picked up the scent.
I don't think that SA could burn a body, right in his yard, as he was cleaning up blood all over the place, talking to his girlfriend, and not worrying if someone could stop by at any giving moment.
keeponsearching
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Did they prove that the computer usage was while Brendon was at school.. I'm going to have nightmares over the titles of the searches, and what pics we saw.
LifeCitizen
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It does.
The animated maps are great, also Zellner driving around and the pics from the air.
The animated maps are great, also Zellner driving around and the pics from the air.
LifeCitizen
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Whoops sorry, I meant to quote Proudfootz in my last post.
BelleIsle
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Has anyone mentioned the journal in this thread (are we only allowed to post about what happened during the specific thread # in the title?) ? The fact that TH's ex had it, yet she used it to jot down appointments as she was driving around on the day she was murdered. This to me, was huge. I'm not sure which episode it was from as I binge watched.
Yes the journal part was very interesting. I binge watched too over a couple of days as well, but maybe this thread of the last episode might be a good thread to summarise everything, or is there somewhere else here to do that?
Gonna be hard for the binge watchers to remember which episode it was exactly from memory of info. without watching it over again, LOL.
Guess i should of taken notes,
