Seeking Key Info 6/10-6/14 for New Leads

[librarian_mama]

On the topic of June 9-14, I have always believed that Casey moved in with Amy at Ricardo's house during that time frame. If she did stay any of those nights with Tony (which I am not sure she did), I would also guess that Caylee stayed with Amy and Ricardo - not George & Cindy. G and C thought she was on vacation with Jeff Hopkins at that time. I think she "pretended" to come back from her vacation on June 15th and went to G&C's. Something happened that weekend between her and Cindy, and she moved in with Tony on the 16th.

I recall that she left posts on Tony's myspace page on June 14th and 15th - why would she leave him posts if she was living with him at the time? I mean she could - but it doesn't seem likely. So I think Tony was right and she was living with Amy until she returned to the Anthony's on June 15th. I do not believe she was "hiding" Caylee during this time frame.

Tony told LE that Casey "basically" moved in with him June 10th. She then got most of her clothes into his apartment June 15th or so.

 

[liltigress]

Thanks to darlin_gal for her timeline from the 400 page discovery...

6/2 Last time Lazarro sees Caylee
6/9 Amy says last time she saw Caylee was shortly before this date. She also told police about Casey saying she had $15K in savings and that she was "going to get" her parents' house.
6/9 Casey spends the night with Ricardo and Amy with Caylee
6/9 to 6/25 Casey contacts Brittany Schieber many times about going to nightclubs
6/10 Ricards sees Caylee that morning at his home
6/12 to 6/14 Caylee goes for walk with Casey and Kristina
6/13 Roy House sees Caylee
6/13 - 6/15 Casey is supposed to visit Ryan Pasley at his aunt's house; doesn't show
6/15 Cindy and Caylee visit great-grandfather

Where was Caylee all these nights?

 

[liltigress]

Maybe I should add why these dates are important to me and possibly others have caught on too.

If Casey was leaving Caylee with someone at night, that someone hasn't been pointed out yet, that we know of.

I have always thought Casey didn't act alone, it's just a feeling I have. Someone out there knows something, IMO.

I think it is interesting that Casey contacted her military guy-friend and said she had something to tell him about something she'd done, but didn't know how he would feel about it. I wonder if she was going to tell him about Caylee. I just don't feel like he is the only person that Casey would trust to spill some half truths. I seriously doubt she would be ballsy enough to say that she'd killed Caylee, but at least she was going to say something.

 

[TxRose]

Ok - I see Tony's statement in the 400 pages - had to refresh my memory. He says she would show up with just a change of clothes. So basically little "one night stands". She was obviously staying more "permanently" somewhere else since she did not move in with much until the 16th. It sounds like she would just come and go then.

I am having trouble finding Amy's statement - too many pages to search. LOL. But I will keep trying. So we are sure she says she didn't see Caylee at all during this time? And we are sure she wasn't confused about the 9th vs. the 15th too? LOL

I guess even if so - I have to believe that LE has been trying to track down Caylee's whereabouts during this time frame as well. They have seemed to be very thorough from what I see. I am sure they are tracking Casey and Caylee's whereabouts each day.

 

[TxRose]

"Per the 431 page, here's an abbreviated timeline:
Sometime in June: Cindy calls Ryan and discovers Casey had never worked at Sports Authority; tells him Casey's a sociopath
6/2 Last time Lazarro sees Caylee
6/9 Amy says last time she saw Caylee was shortly before this date. She also told police about Casey saying she had $15K in savings and that she was "going to get" her parents' house.
6/9 Casey spends the night with Ricardo and Amy with Caylee
6/9 to 6/25 Casey contacts Brittany Schieber many times about going to nightclubs
6/10 Ricards sees Caylee that morning at his home"

I am still trying to find the 400 pages related to Amy's statements...my old links are now dead ends. Erg. But I did find this on another thread. It says Amy says she last saw Caylee shortly before the 9th. But yet Caylee slept at the house with Ricardo and Amy on the 9th according to Ricardo. And he saw her the morning of the 10th. So perhaps for at least some of this time, Caylee was sleeping at Ricardo's while she was wherever she was. (Apparently she was seeing several guys during this time frame - Tony, Ricardo to some extent, and the LE guy.) I noticed in one of the original police affidavits is states that Amy can't remember the last time she saw Caylee. So I think they are trying their best to remember - but I think there is still some confusion on exact dates.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I just plowed through the Oviedo house thread, but, was unable to learn what I was interested in. I will post the same question there. Apologies for the duplicate, but, would really like to know the answer.

Was the Oviedo house (895 N Lake Jessup) occupied 6/10-6/14?

 

[liltigress]

How about the myspace post between Casey and Amy about them not seeing each other one morning because of Casey not coming downstairs before Amy left? Does anyone remember that?

If that was the 9th, then I would understand why Amy didn't see Caylee if she was there with Casey spending the night with Ricardo.

 

[TxRose]

How about the myspace post between Casey and Amy about them not seeing each other one morning because of Casey not coming downstairs before Amy left? Does anyone remember that?

If that was the 9th, then I would understand why Amy didn't see Caylee if she was there with Casey spending the night with Ricardo.

I remember that. That could be why there appears to be a conflict in their statements. I think it could also just be that she is not totally sure of the exact date she last saw her. But Ricardo seems certain Caylee was there that night.

I myself would be curious to hear if the LE guy she was seeing saw Caylee during that time frame. We haven't heard anything from him have we? She was apparently spending some time with him as well as Tony....and Ricardo...and who knows who else.

 

[liltigress]

I just plowed through the Oviedo house thread, but, was unable to learn what I was interested in. I will post the same question there. Apologies for the duplicate, but, would really like to know the answer.

Was the Oviedo house (895 N Lake Jessup) occupied 6/10-6/14?

I'm looking that info up for you. Maybe I'll have something soon?

 

[liltigress]

Information looked up. Looks to be confirmed that the owners paid taxes for 2007. That would mean they own the home still... BUT..

I think it's important to note that the owners' mailing address is showing different than the physical address of this residence. Hope that helps.

ETA: The mailing address for this owner/home is also owned by the same person.
2 homes, 1 owner.

Speculate away...

 

[BondJamesBond]

Information looked up. Looks to be confirmed that the owners paid taxes for 2007. That would mean they own the home still... BUT..

I think it's important to note that the owners' mailing address is showing different than the physical address of this residence. Hope that helps.

ETA: The mailing address for this owner/home is also owned by the same person.
2 homes, 1 owner.

Speculate away...

I believe there's enough info to suggest that this home is being used for rental income.

Would there be a way to search archived listings (if that exists) to see if the property was seeking renters on any given month/week?

In my area there are weekly rags that go out, but, dunno if they are archived anywhere that is accessible/searchable.

Now that the house is definitely occupied, my hope of finding any undisturbed evidence INSIDE is all but gone. Although a cadaver dog search might yield enough to suggest the use of the home near the time of death.

 

[Susanlee]

I just plowed through the Oviedo house thread, but, was unable to learn what I was interested in. I will post the same question there. Apologies for the duplicate, but, would really like to know the answer.

Was the Oviedo house (895 N Lake Jessup) occupied 6/10-6/14?

Hope this does not sound negative in any way...but LE could find this out in a heartbeat. Call the owners and/or go to the house. Unless there is reason to think someone would lie to LE.

Florida is big on public records. I can have my morning coffee, find out who just bought the house next door, and print off a 25 page copy of thier mortage papers, among others things, in 15 min. Kinda scary, but the way it is.

If you think your really on to something, maybe ask Tricia or others who have contact with LE if they can answer your question? Hope you find what your looking for

 

[yanknrebel]

That's interesting since it mentions that June 9th date again--I wonder why Casey holds this date as significant? I've always wondered why Cindy never elaborated about what the circumstances were when she had Caylee visit her father on Father's Day--did Casey bring Caylee back home, was Caylee with the Grandparents alone, or some other scenerio? Cindy also stated she had last seen Caylee on June 9th--before she corrected herself with the Father's Day date. Somehow that June 9th date must mean something.

After reading the 400 pages and interviews I get the feeling that Casey really "cared or loved"(if that is possible for Casey to feel) Ricardo. I find it strange that she left Ricardo's on June 9th and then stayed first night with Anthony L on June 9th. Maybe that is why she clings to that date. Maybe she blames her break up with Ricardo on Caylee. Ricardo was the one she really played house with. He allowed Caylee to share their bed even. WHat could be more like a marriage in Casey's mind then that. Maybe this is what made Casey make up her mind that she had to do something with Caylee? JMO

 

[yanknrebel]

This is exactly what I was thinking. KC began using chloroform on her on June 9th, keeping her drugged up all night, so she would sleep peacefully in the trunk, and give KC the chance for uninterrupted hook ups with TonE all night long. Perhaps on the night of the 15th or 16th (if you believe GA's story about seeing them on the 16th), KC left her in there too long, or gave her too much chloroform, and when she discovered her, she freaked out and ditched the body. Maybe she forgot about Caylee so long that it wasn't until just before the flurry of phone calls when she discovered what she had done. Then she took the body back to the Anthony house, borrowed the shovel, buried the body in the backyard. Waited a few days, got nervous, dug the body back up, and then buried it somewhere remote, or fed it to alligators (the thought of that makes me want to vomit, its so so sick and sad).

This scenario is scary. Although it could have happened. Except that xperts have said that alligators do not eat DEAD meat. Meaning Casey would have had to put Caylee in with the gators while she was alive. Pray that was not the case. Even if she used chloroform, what a heinous, sickening thought.

 

[Susanlee]

Don't know if this is significant, but the current owners of the Oviedo house bought it from a person with the same last name (middle part of whole name) as the "nanny". Could be something...could mean nothing. Common name. Not using complete name as against TOS policy.

 

[Emma Peel]

This is an interesting thread regarding a closer look at 6/10-6/14 & related theories. It forced me to look at the case again, with a completely different assumption as to where Caylee was that week.

Here are some thoughts:

1. Consider the Sawgrass Apt?
If you want to consider real estate that was unoccupied 6/10-6/14, and that could have been used as a temporary "location" to keep Caylee, would it be unreasonable to consider Sawgrass 210? I've hoped LE checked that vacant apt. for any evidence of Caylee having been in that apartment. We just don’t know if they did or not.

(The security tapes related to Sawgrass, that were referenced by LE during Casey's taped interview, might have been merely a pressure tactic. Just because LE mentions security tapes in that interview, does not mean they exist.)

Consider the possibility that Casey lied in this first LE interview, not just to smokescreen, but with intent to manipulate. She’d had a long time to create this particular lie, complete with Sawgrass and Zanny. This is the “original lie” born directly of Caylee’s demise, with intent to manipulate and deflect. Casey caved on many lies during the taped LE interview @ Universal. However, Casey remained firm with LE as Sawgrass being the last place she saw Caylee. Is it possible that Casey intended to lead LE to a place (the Sawgrass apt) where they could actually find evidence that Caylee had been there? Such evidence would have give credence to the Zanny kidnapping story. This would also make Casey a clever liar, and … I’m not convinced she is so clever… Still, if Casey’s lies contain any grain of truth or clue, IMO, the “best lie” to scrutinize might be the original lie. (with future lies being more of the smokescreen variety)

So, I’m throwing the Sawgrass apartment out there as another possible location of interest, given the theory that Caylee was kept somewhere during 6/10-6/14 other than at G&C’s house.

2. Oviedo a Red Herring?
Some time ago, the Anthony’s knew about the Oviedo rental house and it was a place of interest to them, and, likely LE. (In mid-August, George traveled there with his billboard to meet the "people" who were supposedly watching Caylee's kidnappers.)

IMO, the Oviedo house connection rises out of one of the lies Casey told her parents during her efforts to become independent and move out. We know for some time, Casey was determined to move out. G&C would want to know where she would be living with Caylee, and where she would be working. My thinking is that Casey gave G&C the Oviedo house rental info for a cover, because she knew it was available rental property through her various friends, and that her parents would find such a house/yard suitable for Caylee. To further reassure her parents, Casey had written fake e-mails in May 08 about her fake employment. Casey may not be a terribly clever liar, but she was a good enough liar to manipulate G&C, (thanks to the overlying dysfunctional dynamic between family members.), and they believed she was making plans to move out. Good enough so that Cindy was looking into custody options.
While the Oviedo house connection yields interesting coinkydinks all over the place, it may simply be a red herring Casey planted with her parents during her May/June push for independence.



That’s all I have at the moment. If nothing else this has been a good exercise - thinking outside the box - in this case, outside the June 15th critical date box. Interesting Sleuthing. Pleasure to read.

 

[lorynne34]

June 1 to June 2 – Casey's boyfriend, Tony , watches Caylee swim in his pool. Tony later recalls the date as the last time he saw Caylee.

June 9 – Between 9:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m., Casey allegedly drops 2-year-old Caylee off with her nanny, Zenaida , at the Sawgrass Apartments on South Conway Road.

Casey moves out of her parent's house and in with her ex-boyfriend, Ricardo , and friend, Amy .

June 9 to June 12 – Casey tells her parents that she is having Zenaida babysit Caylee so she can go on a business trip for Universal Studios.

June 12 – Family friends allegedly spot Caylee in a shopping center near the Orange-Seminole county line. She was reportedly wearing a pink and blue outfit and white-rimmed sunglasses.

June 12 to June 14 – Christine , a friend of Casey’s, says that she went for a walk with Casey and Caylee on one of these dates.

June 13 – A friend of Casey's, a DJ at a local club, allegedly sees Caylee at Tony's apartment.

June 14 – Casey allegedly logs into her MySpace account and leaves a message on a profile allegedly belonging to Tony. The message, time-stamped 8:05 a.m., read, "You're absolutely my favorite." It remains unclear if Tony ever replied, as the majority of Casey's comments from that period have been deleted.

http://investigation.discovery.com/...age/timeline/june15-june21/june15-june21.html

 

[Starfish]

**Snip**June 12 – Family friends allegedly spot Caylee in a shopping center near the Orange-Seminole county line. She was reportedly wearing a pink and blue outfit and white-rimmed sunglasses.

I've read this several times, however, I've never read exactly who these "family friends" were and if they were able to elaborate on who she was with, what they were doing, did they talk to her....stuff like that. Does anyone have any more info about this?

 

[BondJamesBond]

OK. Since, the last, independently verified sightings of Caylee were on 6/15, there's plenty of attention being focused on the events post-6/15.

I propose that there's valuable information to be gathered from the period 6/10-6/14 that could yield a break, or at least some new leads.

*Per Ricardo's statement, Caylee's last night @ Glenwood Apt was 6/9.
*Per Kristine's statement, Caylee played @ Lake Underhill 6/12 or 6/13 6-8:30PM
*Per Clint's statement, Caylee was @ Tony's Apt on the afternoon of 6/13.
*Per multiple statements, Caylee NEVER spent the night @ Tony's Apt.

FIRST:

I propose that there MAYBE an error in the affidavit narrative (see below)

From original affidavit narrative:

It was he [Tony] that contacted Amy H. and had her call me regarding this case. Anthony said while the defendant lived with her* since June 9th, she [Casey] mentioned several times that Caylee was with the “nanny” at Disney, Universal Studios or the beach. She never gave him any indication the child was endangered or missing.

*[speculation that this is an error and should read, “him” (i.e. “lived with Tony since June 9th”.]:waitasec:​

SECOND:

IF you buy that Casey moved into Tony's 6/9...THEN Casey came up with her new, secret location to stow Caylee for the nights 6/10-6/14 (apparently w/o noticeably harming her) OR someone (e.g. George & Cindy) isn't being truthful about knowledge of Caylee's overnight whereabouts.

Could there be evidence (e.g. photo's, video, sightings, receipts, apartment/rental house viewings, etc.) during the period of 6/10-6/14 that is being overlooked due to focus on post-6/15 that could yield important leads to where Caylee might have been that may still hold evidence?!?!:detective:​

...additional support that Casey moved into Tony's (not Ricardo & Amy's) on 6/10...recall what was going on at the time...

Although Ricardo's account is slightly different than Amy's....Amy explained that Casey brought Tony to Troy's b-day party on 6/6 and Ricardo was there. By Amy's account their was a fight because Casey was still involved w/ Ricardo...Ricardo's account says the split was amicable. Ricardo is clear on Casey & Caylee staying w/ them @ Glenwood for the last time on 6/9 and leaving 6/10.

Hope that helps...

 

[BondJamesBond]

Don't know if this is significant, but the current owners of the Oviedo house bought it from a person with the same last name (middle part of whole name) as the "nanny". Could be something...could mean nothing. Common name. Not using complete name as against TOS policy.

Interesting, indeed, Susanlee.

Are you able to set the timing of the sale?