Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

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She did put on that whole dramatic crying and shaking like a chihuahua performance for him, allegedly after a half hour call from TA, back in February 2008(according to her journal Vol.5 P.1-6, from Feb.23-25?) when GS claims in his testimony that she had come to stay with him for 2 days and 1 night in his motorhome and although she was still living in AZ, she was supposedly moving away at that time.

[video=youtube;d2X6CeMq834]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2X6CeMq834[/video] starts around 31:53

Then on P.50 in her Vol.5 journal(dated March 14/15) said something about a phone charger and taking some pics, sounds like they were of GS with another woman(Ms.Coffee) even though his divorce wasn't final. Sounds like JA may have something over GS.

Also in her journal Vol.5 P.79 dated April 3 JA claims she hasn't left AZ but will be leaving that night and then on April 6, 2008 she says she spent two nights in the truck and " I got a Helio phone! It's on." That sounds like it could be referring to either her plan, an app she wanted, or both.

In GS's testimony, see video above, he met up with her in Pasadena between 10am and 2pm for about ten minutes and gave her the Helio(allegedly when she was actually moving to northern CA).

Oops, I forgot this link, for those who don't like to do the video thing.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...friend-court-public-opinion-suppressing-truth

Plus there was this phone that she claimed to have received May 22, 2008. Seriously, how many did she have and which one/s did they use for evidence?!

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-journal-entries-2/
"Thurs. May 22, 2008

Today has been a day of good news and sadness. Good news: my phone arrived! And not a moment too soon. Sad news: I finally had “the conversation” with Travis and it did not go well. I sort of put it to him already in an e-mail I sent a few days ago ..."
 
AS i stated before, CL is the motive! TA gave her the book of Mormon! That's how he hooked up with her! She was in a white rage being so far away. TA sleeping with CL, then taking Mimi to Cancun was enough for her to premeditate his death. JMO

nevermind the fact that CL is stunningly attractive, and though i'm not shallow, jodi definitely is. she must have been feeling xtra jealous that CL was kinda taking her spot as a 'fun times' kinda girl. especially because CL was more attractive.
 
I just googled CL. She's got a natural kind of pretty, where she's not trying as hard as... say... Ms Arias. That had to hit her hard. What is an hmmm point is that I recall discussion that Travis had to be racist, as Ms Arias was trying to craft this Anglo, blonde image for him. CL is an ethnic brunette, so that really had to make her mad. Here's Arias crafting this fake, "perfect" (lol) image, and Travis hooks up effortlessly with a girl not hiding her ethnicity.

And btw, as someone who loves makeup, can I say again that no, no, no Jodi Arias sucked at makeup? Ugh. It just... disgusts me that she thinks she's this feminist, victim, warrior, makeup goddess. No. No. No. She couldn't blend her makeup, and she couldn't blend into society.

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Lol, I was just going through lisasalinger's blog to see if I can find that witness I vaguely recall as mentioned above in regards to the CL/TA texting thing and found this... isn't it strange how the men she's interested in seem to have faulty cell phones?

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/jodis-last-month-of-freedom-2008/
"5/27/08: Good news! Ryan texted me finally! I was beginning to give up on him. I hadn’t heard from him in almost a week, and I was kinda bummed because he seemed like a great guy. But he sent me a text saying he’s been having problems w/his phone and he’s been getting complaints from others that his text messages weren’t going through."

Then a little further down it definitely sounds like she had a plan... since we now know she had to borrow money for it(Paul Stern, possibly others) and she was a day late getting back to work.

"5/30/08: Well, I’ve decided to go next week to Utah. I’m pretty stoked about it. It works for my budget & my schedule."
 
nevermind the fact that CL is stunningly attractive, and though i'm not shallow, jodi definitely is. she must have been feeling xtra jealous that CL was kinda taking her spot as a 'fun times' kinda girl. especially because CL was more attractive.

Hells ya!

l.jpg

I bet after this trip, that's when she decided to go brunette.
 
If ever anyone needed the book "He's Just Not That Into You", it was/is Jodi Arias.

I remember once I really dug this guy, we talked on the phone, never really hung that much in person.... then he gets a girlfriend. I was crushed. He always said he wasn't ready to commit. I asked him why, he said "I didn't want to commit to you." I was heartbroken for months, making lame diary entries and listening to Fiona Apple, imagining why or how he couldn't love me. What did she have that I didn't? And then summer ended, my sophomore year of high school began, and I met a whole lot of new cuties and moved on. I moved on. Oh yeah, I was almost 15 when this happened.

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If ever anyone needed the book "He's Just Not That Into You", it was/is Jodi Arias.

I remember once I really dug this guy, we talked on the phone, never really hung that much in person.... then he gets a girlfriend. I was crushed. He always said he wasn't ready to commit. I asked him why, he said "I didn't want to commit to you." I was heartbroken for months, making lame diary entries and listening to Fiona Apple, imagining why or how he couldn't love me. What did she have that I didn't? And then summer ended, my sophomore year of high school began, and I met a whole lot of new cuties and moved on. I moved on. Oh yeah, I was almost 15 when this happened.

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so you were at or above jodi's maturity level then? ;)

you handled it MUCH better!
 
so you were at or above jodi's maturity level then? ;)

you handled it MUCH better!
Yeah. I think I saw him once at a mall. (Keep in mind our summer "romance" was at age 15 for us both.) We were now 18 and he'd gotten quite awkward looking and was a total dbag. I pretended like I didn't know him. Time really does heal all wounds.

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I agree there appears to be some abnormal family dynamics, like Mr. Arias' detached police interview, where he seemed in agreement with and resigned to her guilt, Sandy's inappropriate behavior in the courtroom, her brothers failure to appear for deposition, what appeared to be token appearances in the courtroom by each family member in turn, which merely implied support rather than actually showed it (can't blame them, but it's really an either or decision - they made it ambiguous), as well as Nurmi's reported strangeness during his visit.

Arias' psychopathy is not, imo, a result of these dynamics, however. Her personality is not resigned and repressed like that of her siblings appear to be, for example, and she had enough of the dysfunction to leave home at an early age. I believe JA used the family dysfunction to her advantage, however, using guilt and confrontation to manipulate them into supporting her, both before and after the murder.

*Nods* I don't believe that any of her background excuses her, but that the childhood environment plays a BIG part. I said a while back, that she knows what she did was wrong (wants to hide truth on day-to-day basis), she just chooses to ignore her conscience. Yet the truth is, not all psychopathic minds kill, this has been proven with brain scans in recent decade(s), scientists acknowledge that social environment, specifically early development, makes all the difference. The earlier these traits are taught (subliminally), and as for the tantrums, the longer parents don't acknowledge it with counselling, the bigger problem law enforcement/society has to deal with later on. But their kids usually have a record in the prison system or juvenile facilities by then. JA didn't have a criminal history, she always had someone to cling to/some boyfriend. She could have had restraining orders against her, and whatever California does with investigating those pets...

I just think the negative environment (which is at least, emotional abuse) equates to like, what expectations did they have of her when she was born anyways? Seriously? I believe they had some big restaurant to run, or to that effect as well. I mean, I've met people with busy parents, but at the same time, they spent the time to ensure proper upbringing so they could make something of themselves. I don't think they did that with her, it shows.

Sandy's, IMO, ill-driven temper and snarky judgement is probably only in the *off-position when you're "on her side," or I guess if JA commits homicide and now they need money. Bill Arias distances himself but he's oddly patriarchal in certain photos, I don't imagine he knew what to do about having a daughter(s) in the first place. That's what I was saying about not buying his projected image (to me, he comes across as controlling and IMO, he knows how to charm* others 'to his side' as well, he was cajoling Det Flores). I figure the Arias' wouldn't get on well with the average/higher-than educated person in personal settings though, whom registers strong dislike of 'snarkiness.' They were uncomfortable about expressing empathy to the Alexanders, but the sorrow they feel, is ALSO for themselves/their image. Jodi's narcissism? To reap what you sow...

She was brought up in a small town, not many places to go, and no other noticeable influences that have ever come forward to say they attempted to really give her a childhood, nothing whatsoever (I don't feel sorry for whom she is NOW, mind you, and some of this is according to her younger sister's random statements on her social media account). I mean, even a psychopath's parents comes out to say, "YOU can't kill MY kid." That doesn't mean I'll personally find them independent to what happened.

I'd have to say, sibling wise, the eldest usually receives the 'brunt.' There are more 'mistakes' made as it's their first, so depending upon who's doing the parenting, if they're not one to care what's causing their child anger (especially, if it's themselves), you can definitely end up with an anti-social personality. Born-psychopaths don't necessarily commit homicide either; psychopaths whom have had their brain images scanned are SHOCKED when they discover this, due to their upbringing/their own family and respect of life, and also because the child psychopath till date, has not been proven. The best case scenario they had of finding *one* was a long time ago, and I believe she got counselling, got better and made something of herself.

I think I should end my post, lol, but I think she represses WAY more than the other siblings, she doesn't repress when she gets stressed, she can't control it anymore, or when she's being watched (the REAL Jodi is hiding even MORE anger and hatred than what she let's out under interrogation and/or in the courtroom, until Samantha says something that triggers it, she's usually masking 'the rest' of it). Her feelings are internalized, they're just not good ones (anger, hurt, more anger, shame at getting caught, etc etc). She got those feelings from somewhere*, but it's just impossible for me to think negative early influences didn't contribute to her out of control behavior. I mean, how many people that don't graduate high school come from remotely good homes? I mean, unless you have a real intellectual deficit... there should be no reason for that.
 
I've relocated this here from the Journals thread, which was entirely the wrong place for it.

Someone mentioned a sentence in the cross of ALV, so of course I had to go back to the tapes and look. It turns out, I had never seen most of the cross. Fascinating:

1. ALV is extremely manipulative. This woman would be impossible to be around.

2. She is arrogant enough to aver that she knows what's going on in other people's heads. Whether it's JA, TA, Chaitanya, Bianca, JM......

3. She cannot see any position other than her own and pursues it as though people who don't get it are stupid or unethical: narcissist!

4. She almost never answers the question JM asks.

5. The yes or no questions are indeed yes or no questions, and she gives the same fluff over and over to demonstrate that she can't possibly answer them as required. She got right to the point with jury questions, though, so we know it's possible. She just didn't want to.

6. JM dismantled every item on her list supporting DV against Jodi, but she still wouldn't admit her opinion is subjective.

7. She smirks. Her teeth stick out, which reminds me of a certain someone.

8. She claims she considered secondary gain on Jodi's part, but didn't acknowledge the obvious: secondary gain was not to be considered. It was to be assumed.

9. This woman should never have been given any credibility in her field. I'll bet she's ruined the lives of many men.

10. I don't understand why ALV wasn't required to write a report.

10. JSS can't stand ALV. There's one time where she almost rolls her eyes. IIRC, she's leaning over to pick up something, so this might be a reflex, but it was after one of ALV's rediculous expositions. JSS didn't say this, but I often wondered whether "are you .... kidding me" wasn't flitting across her face.

11. Many of the objections in this cross go in JM's favor. Granted, JW makes objections every other sentence, but she's not making hardly any points, 'cos she's getting overruled every other sentence. When they resume after a sidebar, JM generally continues where he left off. Also, JSS is generally supportive of JM as far as following through on requests for admonitions to ALV.

12. From this, I gather that JSS prefers opinions be grounded in irrefutable evidence.

13. JSS is very alert during this testimony.

13. I think JM was going somewhere else with the Snow White questions, but for some reason changed the point mid-way through. I thought he was going to make the simple point that ALV could base a finding of DV on a myth, e.g. the Snow White story. Just as she did with the myth Jodi made up.

ALV is just intolerable! Crazy making. Incredibly defensive even on inconsequential points. I'll bet she's like this in every day life, too.
 
Ok so this is going to show just how shallow I am........lol

I have been going back and forth between ja interviews and court appearances and something is really bothering me about her face. It was so full and "chipmunk cheeky". How did it get so long? There is something I can't put my finger on that looks wrong. Does this bother anyone else?

I completely agree with you, but also from my perspective, JA's face does look disproportionately long the whole time. She is chameleonlike in that her appearance keeps changing even pre-jail. Plus, she photoshops just about everything. Those are not her real teeth in her photos. I don't believe she had veneers (we would have heard about it or seen the occasional tooth sticking out from her mouth) 'cos she knew she could photoshop them out. She had a preference for doing up her *advertiser censored* and getting cheek implants rather than dental work.

I couldn't ever stand the way she looked. There's something really off, about the proportions, the length of the face, the tightness around the mouth, the obsessed over hair, the eyes with no eyelashes, the messed over McDonalds (i.e. twin arches) brows..... I was creeped out by her appearance way before trial.
 
Maybe my question should be - why didn't JM use the totality of the texts, these latest plus the ones with the fight over 'Steve Carroll' and the tree tying happening hours before the tape to prove the inauthenticity of the tape's date to keep it out of the trial altogether? I must be missing something in the strategy.



I think JM wanted the tape to come in. The whole tape. I well remember the impact it had when first played. We'd suffered through days and days of the droning Nurmi & the killer's pathetic little victim act, heard Travis accused of being the perverted aggressor and she taking the abuse because of mother hitting her with a spoon. Or something.

First of all, hearing the tape meant the jury heard the victim's voice. He became real. He was in the court room with the jury, sounding sleepy, singing, just an ordinary man. Who was dead because of the accused killer on the stand. Brought it back home, IMO.

Just as important, and of more practical significance, the tape blew apart their whole Travis as kinky sexual predator of her crap so agonizingly constructed over those days on the stand. She was revealed as initiator and/or full partner in all their escapades.

Playing the tape was a major win for JM. The 12 year girl silliness that Nurmi still clings to as evidence of pedo was easily enough for JM to deal with, and he did so effectively because iirc, not a single juror ever believed Travis was that.
 
Trying to prove JA manipulated the tape would be too much of a subjective argument, in contrast to the objective fact of the conversations having taken place at some point anyway.

Juan could then be seen as trying to deny the obvious by using a straw man argument that the tapes don't matter because they were manipulated.

It's better to acknowledge they existed and keep the emphasis on the obvious mutual consent and participation than be seen as trying to deny them as inherently damaging because of alleged manipulations in time stamping.


There was nothing inevitable about her being found guilty of premeditated murder. To secure that conviction, JM needed to prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt.

JM pieced together a brilliant circumstancial case to prove premed, but even though he technically didn't have to "prove" her motive, juries are more likely to convict if they are given a compelling narrative that includes the "why."

We debated the why here during the first trial and reached differing conclusions. IIRC, even those of us who had followed virtually every minute of the trial and had absorbed everything on SM and books, etc, were still stunned by the additional info about her pathological behaviours that emerged during PP2.

What I'm trying to say is that I think JM opted for a readily understandable (and acceptable to jury) version of what he knew to be a far more twisted & ugly story of stalking and manipulation.
 
Just a couple of observations and question! :D



Maybe to hide a voice activated recorder to hear what Travis and his "dates" say? Just a guess!



Does anyone know IF anyone there signed it? And where that memorial book is now? Just wondering! :thinking:

I'll check in tomorrow for the answers... :wave:


Some people did sign it, and I want to know what happened to it as well. :(
 
*Nods* I don't believe that any of her background excuses her, but that the childhood environment plays a BIG part. I said a while back, that she knows what she did was wrong (wants to hide truth on day-to-day basis), she just chooses to ignore her conscience. Yet the truth is, not all psychopathic minds kill, this has been proven with brain scans in recent decade(s), scientists acknowledge that social environment, specifically early development, makes all the difference. The earlier these traits are taught (subliminally), and as for the tantrums, the longer parents don't acknowledge it with counselling, the bigger problem law enforcement/society has to deal with later on. But their kids usually have a record in the prison system or juvenile facilities by then. JA didn't have a criminal history, she always had someone to cling to/some boyfriend. She could have had restraining orders against her, and whatever California does with investigating those pets...

I just think the negative environment (which is at least, emotional abuse) equates to like, what expectations did they have of her when she was born anyways? Seriously? I believe they had some big restaurant to run, or to that effect as well. I mean, I've met people with busy parents, but at the same time, they spent the time to ensure proper upbringing so they could make something of themselves. I don't think they did that with her, it shows.

Sandy's, IMO, ill-driven temper and snarky judgement is probably only in the *off-position when you're "on her side," or I guess if JA commits homicide and now they need money. Bill Arias distances himself but he's oddly patriarchal in certain photos, I don't imagine he knew what to do about having a daughter(s) in the first place. That's what I was saying about not buying his projected image (to me, he comes across as controlling and IMO, he knows how to charm* others 'to his side' as well, he was cajoling Det Flores). I figure the Arias' wouldn't get on well with the average/higher-than educated person in personal settings though, whom registers strong dislike of 'snarkiness.' They were uncomfortable about expressing empathy to the Alexanders, but the sorrow they feel, is ALSO for themselves/their image. Jodi's narcissism? To reap what you sow...

She was brought up in a small town, not many places to go, and no other noticeable influences that have ever come forward to say they attempted to really give her a childhood, nothing whatsoever (I don't feel sorry for whom she is NOW, mind you, and some of this is according to her younger sister's random statements on her social media account). I mean, even a psychopath's parents comes out to say, "YOU can't kill MY kid." That doesn't mean I'll personally find them independent to what happened.

I'd have to say, sibling wise, the eldest usually receives the 'brunt.' There are more 'mistakes' made as it's their first, so depending upon who's doing the parenting, if they're not one to care what's causing their child anger (especially, if it's themselves), you can definitely end up with an anti-social personality. Born-psychopaths don't necessarily commit homicide either; psychopaths whom have had their brain images scanned are SHOCKED when they discover this, due to their upbringing/their own family and respect of life, and also because the child psychopath till date, has not been proven. The best case scenario they had of finding *one* was a long time ago, and I believe she got counselling, got better and made something of herself.

I think I should end my post, lol, but I think she represses WAY more than the other siblings, she doesn't repress when she gets stressed, she can't control it anymore, or when she's being watched (the REAL Jodi is hiding even MORE anger and hatred than what she let's out under interrogation and/or in the courtroom, until Samantha says something that triggers it, she's usually masking 'the rest' of it). Her feelings are internalized, they're just not good ones (anger, hurt, more anger, shame at getting caught, etc etc). She got those feelings from somewhere*, but it's just impossible for me to think negative early influences didn't contribute to her out of control behavior. I mean, how many people that don't graduate high school come from remotely good homes? I mean, unless you have a real intellectual deficit... there should be no reason for that.

I believe psychopathy is primarily a genetic disorder. If someone has autism or mental retardation, undoubtedly early environment has a role to play in social development and functional outcomes, but the condition will limit the extent the environment can attenuate the condition. The same is true for psychopathy, imo.

Unlike the autism or mental retardation spectrums, psychopathy is a high-functioning disorder, it's difficult to detect because it only effects the deepest parts of the individual's identity. They are able to function socially and intellectually at a very high level, the illness sits deeply hidden in the psychopath's inmost interpretation of their social interactions. That interpretation consists of a profound isolation, a complete inability to be touched by others emotions, a complete lack of conscience because no true connection with others is possible.

Look at Scott Peterson, his mother doted on him, he was the golden child, provided plenty of attention, yet he was a full blown psychopath just the same.

There is a researcher who was doing brain scans to try to identify psychopaths, and he was able to see profound indications in the scans, he was shocked to see his own brain scan showed him to be a psychopath, he was not a criminal, antisocial, or anything. He said he was raised in an extremely loving, socially nourishing, secure environment. What that did was give no ground for antisocial behaviors to develop, yet the condition still showed up via the brain scan. Essentially, his exceptionally positive early environment had made the social consequences of his psychopathy dormant.
 
Yeah. I think I saw him once at a mall. (Keep in mind our summer "romance" was at age 15 for us both.) We were now 18 and he'd gotten quite awkward looking and was a total dbag. I pretended like I didn't know him. Time really does heal all wounds.

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BTW, did you pick up any Pedophilia pamphlets at the mall??
 
Until I can get to my computer and cut and paste, will have to post these fragments without pulling together a whole timeline....sorry.


This plugs into the May timeline, mid-month. The killer (IMO, always) is already non-stop furious. She gave up any plan of marrying him by early May at the very latest.

She began lining up Plan B - Ryan Burns- even before she left Mesa, and by mid-April she was texting with him 3-5 times a week. She had no intention of replaying the Mesa scenario, where she arrived without a landed prey, broke, and feeling powerless. Burns was securely enough hooked by mid to late April that she'd have that option available whenever she wanted it.

Back to Travis. He hasn't responded to her meme that she left Mesa to regain her spirituality, to embrace the Gospel more closely, so that each could heal the spiritual wounds they'd caused each other by having sex (hinting heavily that they could reunite and voila, she'd be that good Mormon wife he wanted).

Travis had been extremely touched by that sentiment in late February, delivered, of course, after the killer had contributed mightily to Travis breaking up with Lisa for the 3rd time in mid-February. It looked like a final break.

Mimi entered the picture in March. The killer snooped and assessed, and IMO concluded Mimi wasn't a genuine threat. She knew Travis well enough to know he wasn't genuinely interested in Mimi, that he was acting on desperation to line up a good Mormon wife, ASAP. Hence her reaching for the good Mormon card.

Part 2 next post
 
May timeline, part 2, back story.


The problem with the killer's good Mormon plan- which she kept up, feebly, through mid-April, was twofold. First, Travis was extremely lonely, recovering from being put off balance and having his privacy invaded daily, and overwhelmed by the financial threats he was facing. He increasingly sought diversion , both by immersing himself in his website and by seeking out women to flirt with. Yes, he felt extreme pressure to find that good Mormon wife, but he dealt with that pressure in part by doing that flirting and more.

The killer couldn't play both roles at the same time. She'd played the accommodating and ego-boosting sex partner, which disqualified her as wife material. Playing the good wife material (even in her own mind) couldn't work if Travis had actual good wife material at hand.

So, the simultaneous reaches to Travis for Gospel guidance and the like while at the same time manufacturing evidence of his continuing sexual "interest" in her, no doubt intended to be sent anonymously to any real prospect.

At the same time, though, the consequences of what she'd already done to him were beginning to catch up to both of them. Travis began to realize in late March that he might still be in love with Lisa. Genuinely in love. And when he realized that the killer had lied to him about spy Michelle, he also began to realize that the killer had played a part in destroying that relationship. He was angry enough as early as April 8th to threaten to expose her as a psychopath to everyone that mattered to her.

Those two threads-- the threat of exposure (damage to her reputation) by Travis, and the threat of T's love for Lisa, run through the events of April until mid May.

......

Playing as atonal background music...knowing that T was hooking up and flirting with others and not her (hello? she'd told him in any case she was trying to live the word). Think DeMarte's explanations about JA flipping from idealization to finding excuses to despise him. Think DeMarte explaining that the chief trigger for borderlines' rage is rejection or perceived rejection.

From her point of view Travis has rejected her on every level by early May...as a lover, as a friend, as a photographer, even as a writer (plagerized blog). He is more angry with her than not, more dismissive of her not, he believes her lies and excuses so little now that he mocks her when she tries.

Last- post 3.
 
I completely agree with you, but also from my perspective, JA's face does look disproportionately long the whole time. She is chameleonlike in that her appearance keeps changing even pre-jail. Plus, she photoshops just about everything. Those are not her real teeth in her photos. I don't believe she had veneers (we would have heard about it or seen the occasional tooth sticking out from her mouth) 'cos she knew she could photoshop them out. She had a preference for doing up her *advertiser censored* and getting cheek implants rather than dental work.

I couldn't ever stand the way she looked. There's something really off, about the proportions, the length of the face, the tightness around the mouth, the obsessed over hair, the eyes with no eyelashes, the messed over McDonalds (i.e. twin arches) brows..... I was creeped out by her appearance way before trial.
I think the teeth were not bonded on, maybe something like "snap on smile".
http://www.snaponsmile.com/

And dispite being a "professional" photograher, don't think she is image savvy enough to do convincing photoshop. If she was, why not fix her wonky eye gazing off in some other direction while she's at it?

[emoji57]

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