Caylee Advocate
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Aww, the poor little butcheress has tendonitis and is slow in replying to letters. :waitasec: I thought she was ambidextrous... so umm... another LIE. :jail:
Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3
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But she feels something alright, raage/bitterness, it's that whole no respect for another person or the laws thing that cancels even any momentary empathy from myself, anyway. She DID have to follow our laws. You see a psychologist to feel better, not date someone you can't even love properly - which she knew she couldn't.
I thought I would finally watch all those interrogation videos. I see there are 18 of them, jeez, I didn't want to ever do it (only saw snippets).. I mean sure enough, I play the first vid, and what is she doing in the under 5 second mark? Her head on lopped* on the table, she's cradling her stress inside her vicious body. Sigh. Eighteen tapes not needed Jodi, just write out you did it and sign.
CarolinaMoon
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Okay, now I'm caught up on this. I've avoided the re-trial video and guess where I am right now???
The transcripts are posted on this forum (timeline thread, iirc) if you're interested in just the content.
I haven't watched most of the them, but the one thing I'm going to look up sometime is the part much commented upon here where she freakishly dissects the sandwich put in front of her and eats pieces of it....oddly.
LOL. Hopefully for you, you're not on Day 1 and determined to watch them all. :slap: :toast:
From a fairly reliable site (about JA's supporters) ....
More to the Purple Plum story (and not just the rumors about her victimizing an underage boy).
The owner interviewed by DeMarte may have had more to say than JM was allowed to bring in (would have been too prejudicial for sure, if true).
What he allegedly told DM was that the killer was about to be fired for giving employees and customers BJ's, some of them perhaps in exchange for $$$. She quit rather than be fired, and began preparing to flee.
I know a lot of folks here have always believed she was a PT prostitute/hooker. I hadn't, but it does seem more likely than not -- unaccounted for $$$ she had, the stream of men visiting her at her shared house in Mesa and her asking her roomie to leave during those visits, the disappearing for hours with a married man on one of her trips with TA.
I wonder if that's why Rachel or other roomies never testified?
More to the Purple Plum story (and not just the rumors about her victimizing an underage boy).
The owner interviewed by DeMarte may have had more to say than JM was allowed to bring in (would have been too prejudicial for sure, if true).
What he allegedly told DM was that the killer was about to be fired for giving employees and customers BJ's, some of them perhaps in exchange for $$$. She quit rather than be fired, and began preparing to flee.
I know a lot of folks here have always believed she was a PT prostitute/hooker. I hadn't, but it does seem more likely than not -- unaccounted for $$$ she had, the stream of men visiting her at her shared house in Mesa and her asking her roomie to leave during those visits, the disappearing for hours with a married man on one of her trips with TA.
I wonder if that's why Rachel or other roomies never testified?
The transcripts are posted on this forum (timeline thread, iirc) if you're interested in just the content.
I haven't watched most of the them, but the one thing I'm going to look up sometime is the part much commented upon here where she freakishly dissects the sandwich put in front of her and eats pieces of it....oddly.
Thanks, but I think I am at the point of no return... I'm considering playing 'the drinking game' to everytime she says or does something that makes me go... whaaaat the beeeep
I will let you know the timestamp and link the sandwich vid, unless I'm :cautionDrunk:
Zuri
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I read somewhere (sorry can't remember), that the publisher of Juan's book makes no such claim that the foreman in the first trial had "feelings" for CMJA. IIRC, Tara Kelly, a former juror has made those assertions, not Juan.
RickshawFan
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I'm not certain "empty" would be quite like that.
I believe the "love, joy, understanding, empathy" feelings are not in this category. By way of example, you may know someone who lacks one or other of these emotions, or at least seems to. Do you know anyone who has Aspergers ("high functioning" on the autism spectrum)? Some Aspies will appear to have no empathy; this is not about evil, and it is not about being mean. It is a quirky wiring in the brain. You would not call these folks "empty."
Also, there are many in the world who cannot experience joy because of life circumstances or because they have dour personalities. You would not call these folks "empty."
Etc.
So by "emptiness" I think something different is meant.
The definition in Jodi's journals is suspect, too, because she's so overly dramatic about everything and "emptiness" is quite a cliché.
Jodi may also be using it as a synonym for depressed feelings. It would be just like her to do that.
I actually thought Dr. DeMarte was exploiting Jodi's frequently expressed feelings of "emptiness" to nail her diagnosis in the court, but may have considered the words to be just immature drama. Dr. DeM may, in fact, have noticed a true "emptiness" in the clinical context (maybe sociopathic traits), but wanted just to go with Jodi's own words for the sake of the trial.
I suppose from a psychologist's point of view, "emptiness" would be an indicator that a person needs other people to fill him/herself up.
Brain bubble: Dang, if certain gas cans aren't coming to mind....
Back on topic.
I would think a basic task of counseling for a person who feels "empty" is to have them do stuff! How can you possibly feel "full" if you have no purpose and nothing to do all day? You might not wish to be busy, but heck, that's not about "empty": it's a choice.
Getting going and doing productive things are often a stepping stone to looking more closely at who you are as a person. Think of someone who's depressed. They are pressured by counselors to exercise, eat correctly, get a certain number of hours of sleep, get out and do something even if they don't feel like it. The new energy sets the stage for self-examination.
Jodi made herself feel full by manipulating people all day long. She often didn't have a job, a place she was paying rent on, willingness to develop her basic abilities (except maybe her knack for tracing). She chose activities, e.g. Othello, not to engage in the activity, but to manipulate people's perception of her. I guess that would summarize Jodi: she had no will to do anything different with the "cards" she had in her life. She wanted others to make that happen for her. I don't believe this is "emptiness". I'm thinking it's "spoiled brat" or "immature". And she chose not to get counseling.
I'm not saying that a person can't be incapacitated by depression and have frequent feelings of "emptiness." I'm saying Jodi's not it: she never had a drive to be another way.
Frigga
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Thanks Rickshaw, you are so very wise and articulate and that was a great explanation.
I am the youngest of six, 4 older siblings have a different dad. My third oldest sister was diagnosed borderline, by a therapist- she promptly quit therapy. She has described herself as 'empty' on more then one occasion and I think its different then depression. Depression runs on our mothers side so we are all very aware of the symptoms.
My son has Down syndrome and he has had many friends over the years who are Autistic, with and without Aspergers, so I understand that too.
In my sisters case, because I have known her for 50 years- she also has a daughter who has Down syndrome, she and my son are 3 years apart and close. It's different then what you are describing. My sister is much different then Jodi in that she functions well in her business- always making ends meet but she has never been able to work FOR someone. She is all of the things the text books describe for Borderline (my sis). I have had to take a break from her in the past 6 months because she turned her crazy on me, previously I had only witnessed her do it to others. It just seems the empty- at least for her- is present and different then what you described.
Maybe all of it has to do with the fact that the overriding base line for Jodi's personality is sociopathy- my sisters (thank goodness) isn't. Hmmm, much to ponder for certain. I always appreciate your thoughts!
I am the youngest of six, 4 older siblings have a different dad. My third oldest sister was diagnosed borderline, by a therapist- she promptly quit therapy. She has described herself as 'empty' on more then one occasion and I think its different then depression. Depression runs on our mothers side so we are all very aware of the symptoms.
My son has Down syndrome and he has had many friends over the years who are Autistic, with and without Aspergers, so I understand that too.
In my sisters case, because I have known her for 50 years- she also has a daughter who has Down syndrome, she and my son are 3 years apart and close. It's different then what you are describing. My sister is much different then Jodi in that she functions well in her business- always making ends meet but she has never been able to work FOR someone. She is all of the things the text books describe for Borderline (my sis). I have had to take a break from her in the past 6 months because she turned her crazy on me, previously I had only witnessed her do it to others. It just seems the empty- at least for her- is present and different then what you described.
Maybe all of it has to do with the fact that the overriding base line for Jodi's personality is sociopathy- my sisters (thank goodness) isn't. Hmmm, much to ponder for certain. I always appreciate your thoughts!
Hum. Interesting. Heard the rumors re: young man/teen and JA @ PP, but nothing more than that. Is there a source for this more "fleshed out" (sorry :blushing
version?
RickshawFan
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The biggest reason I watch those tapes is to see how Flores handles things. I like to learn how other people's minds work. He's a genius.
He is.. the first two videos he's letting her do all the talking until motive reveals itself with casual questioning. He sighs soo much though. He definitely got tired of her by video 2, he goes all, ok, we know you did it, there's no reason to play games anymore. I got tired of her too (already), but I never knew that Det Flores was point-blank with her so early on, I thought it was much later. Okay. I couldn't hang on long enough last time to watch these in sequential order else I would have known. *oops* Not that I ever thought Flores wasn't cunning. Lol
Tiger09
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What's the story about JA and the young teen?Hum. Interesting. Heard the rumors re: young man/teen and JA @ PP, but nothing more than that. Is there a source for this more "fleshed out" (sorry :blushing
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RickshawFan
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It sounds as though you've had to go through a lot. I'm sorry for that.
What you are saying in your whole post is exactly what I'm saying.
BBMI don't think Jodi's self-described "emptiness" is Borderline emptiness. For the sake of a court diagnosis, it was convenient that JA wrote in her journals that she felt "empty" all the time. However, Jodi's "empty" word could have meant almost anything, including just over the top normal Jodi drama. It was convenient, though, for the purposes of the trial that Dr. DeMarte could just quote Jodi instead of having to prove "emptiness". By quoting Jodi, she didn't even need to provide a bunch of examples. Jodi's words couldn't be challenged in cross.
In other words, Jodi conveniently gave DeM a neat little package of quotable "evidence", although this might not have been evidence that a clinician would rely on in a clinical setting for a clinical diagnosis. It was useful in court: period.
But it seems likely that DeMarte, by clinical observation, noted "emptiness" in Jodi, but Jodi's brand may well point to sociopathy. And DeM did not want to veer in the sociopath direction for whatever reason.
I doubt Jodi was even aware of the "emptiness" that DeM will have observed in a clinical context. Jodi is not self-aware.
I also don't mean to be saying that a job working for someone else is a prerequisite for dispelling "emptiness", but making things happen for oneself is essential for being in the world. IMO. Even babies soon have a drive for independence, and it is true for all kinds of abilities. I'm sure, having a Downs' syndrome child, we are on the same page with this. And your sister, however difficult she might be as a BP-er, has managed to carve out some productive niches.
And yes, I would guess that productive niches don't eliminate the feeling of emptiness in a BPer. I see "doing stuff" as a basic way, a good start, of addressing feelings of emptiness, but not "fixing" it.
No productive niches for Jodi except devious enterprises.
What I am saying is that some kinds of "emptiness" feelings are mitigated by doing stuff. I'm not sure the criminal version of "emptiness" can be mitigated, but I also don't believe that Jodi is "in touch" with this kind of emptiness in herself. Rather, her kind of "empty" word is a teenage drama word. Many people go through stuff like this, in my observation. And one way of dealing with "empty teenage drama feelings" is to go do something. Manipulation doesn't count, although I'm sure most teenagers try this at least once.
RickshawFan
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The transcripts are posted on this forum (timeline thread, iirc) if you're interested in just the content.
I haven't watched most of the them, but the one thing I'm going to look up sometime is the part much commented upon here where she freakishly dissects the sandwich put in front of her and eats pieces of it....oddly.
That is one of my favorite parts too. I especially love it knowing she's never going to eat that well for the rest of her life, and she just destroyed her meal.... But all the noises that are captured on tape, her fingers working, the licking, the sandwich being pulled apart, the lettuce... The aggression in how she eats.... Reminds me of a hyena.
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