Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[genericwhitemale]

thank you ...didn't realize the video was still available

Pak clearly states that Brewer grabbed Gilbert from behind and he thought Brewer was trying to push her out

I have no idea what happened once she fled Brewer's house, but I'm fairly certain it went something like this. She asked Brewer some odd question about him ever being with a transvestite (Shannan in some photos does look somewhat masculine, but not much), Brewer (probably under the influence of something) gets nervous Shannan might be a guy and asks her to leave, Shannan realizes she isn't going to get paid and then proceeds to do what a lot of women do when they don't get their way, freak out. But that's just my guess. As far as her telling 911 they were trying to "kill" her, my best guess is that she felt threatened because Brewer tried to grab her and push her out of his front door. Maybe that's also why Pak has said he thought Shannan was "trying to set him up". Because she used the word they, meaning Pak and Brewer. Though I still find MP's use of that phrase odd.

 

[Seajay]

I have no idea what happened once she fled Brewer's house, but I'm fairly certain it went something like this. She asked Brewer some odd question about him ever being with a transvestite (Shannan in some photos does look somewhat masculine, but not much), Brewer (probably under the influence of something) gets nervous Shannan might be a guy and asks her to leave, Shannan realizes she isn't going to get paid and then proceeds to do what a lot of women do when they don't get their way, freak out. But that's just my guess. As far as her telling 911 they were trying to "kill" her, my best guess is that she felt threatened because Brewer tried to grab her and push her out of his front door. Maybe that's also why Pak has said he thought Shannan was "trying to set him up". Because she used the word they, meaning Pak and Brewer. Though I still find MP's use of that phrase odd.

BBM, I don't think that was the catalyst to Shannan freaking out because she was there for 3 hours before she wigged out. What did they do in that other three hours??? It wasn't to have sex apparently, according to Brewer. Yet didn't someone go get lubricant and playing cards??

 

[genericwhitemale]

BBM, I don't think that was the catalyst to Shannan freaking out because she was there for 3 hours before she wigged out. What did they do in that other three hours??? It wasn't to have sex apparently, according to Brewer. Yet didn't someone go get lubricant and playing cards??

What do playing cards have to do with sex?

 

[Seajay]

What do playing cards have to do with sex?

It has to do with what they did for the 3 hours preceeding her wigging out and running for her life. If it wasn't about sex as Brewer said, then what did they do for 3 hours before she ran out of there besides play cards??? I just don't think it took 3 hours to get to the "transvesite" discussion.

 

[genericwhitemale]

It has to do with what they did for the 3 hours preceeding her wigging out and running for her life. If it wasn't about sex as Brewer said, then what did they do for 3 hours before she ran out of there besides play cards??? I just don't think it took 3 hours to get to the "transvesite" discussion.

True. Valid point. Or maybe Shannan lost some money to Brewer in a game of 5 card draw and she couldn't cover her debt to him, so he gave her the boot. After all, he thought she was a dude anyways.

 

[Seajay]

True. Valid point. Or maybe Shannan lost some money to Brewer in a game of 5 card draw and she couldn't cover her debt to him, so he gave her the boot. After all, he thought she was a dude anyways.

LOL It just seems that nothing anyone did that night makes any sense at any time. Nothing. She goes there to "entertain", they take off for 15 minutes to do what?? They come back and spend 3 hours in there with or without a drifter, Brewer claims they didn't have sex, somewhere in there someone bought lubricant and playing cards? If no sex, why the lubricant? Never mind.....LOL It could be many things, but remember, no sex.

Then after 3 hours together, Brewer starts thinking she's a dude because of the transvesite question, (he couldn't tell that in the proceeding three hours they were together?) throws her out, she goes running, screaming, calling 911, gets followed by her driver who doesn't find her, goes for help then doesn't accept it when it's there, runs away from people, stripes naked to run barefoot through brambles, reeds, marsh and stickers. Is found dead.

Brewer doesn't call police, Pak doesn't call police, the police don't check Brewers place. The police don't check the brambles behind the last houses she was known to be at, as per Barbara Brennan's 911 call. When the police start a full scale search, do they do that where she disappeared? No, they search 6 miles down the road in an area she had nothing to do with.

No one did the expected in this case.

 

[BKS]

Brewer did not want to pay Shannon even though she had already driven from NYC in the middle of the night and had spent 3 hours with him. Brewer then refused to pay her and grabbed her from behind. Obviously after that she was in a state of panic for good reason.

 

[Adler]

Brewer did not want to pay Shannon even though she had already driven from NYC in the middle of the night and had spent 3 hours with him. Brewer then refused to pay her and grabbed her from behind. Obviously after that she was in a state of panic for good reason.

Is this true? She was not paid at all? I thought there was a dispute regarding how much Brewer was to pay her, not a dispute over whether to pay her at all! If this is true, it certainly puts a whole new spin on this case.

I would say that a client, in any business, who refuses to pay for services rendered is creating a hostile environment.

As for JB's putting his hands on SG, I thought that was in an effort to get her to come out from behind the couch and exit through the door--something both MP and JB had been attempting to do for a while.

If SG was getting ready to leave the Brewer home and settling up for payment, learns that JB does not intend to pay at all, that might very well be good reason for her to refuse to leave until she gets paid, or have the problem resolved. Is this a common problem in the escort business? When somebody refuses to pay, are there other implications that might include safety?

Perhaps the many phone calls SG placed to MP had to do with her first learning and trying to resolve the dispute with JB over payment, which would ultimately effect MP's pay, as well--or would it?

 

[Adler]

Brewer did not want to pay Shannon even though she had already driven from NYC in the middle of the night and had spent 3 hours with him. Brewer then refused to pay her and grabbed her from behind. Obviously after that she was in a state of panic for good reason.

Is there anybody on this thread who is currently an escort or has been an escort in the past, or knows somebody who can answer to this?

This reminds me of something I witnessed about 20 years ago in SF at a hippy-dippy sort of rave gathering. Aside from the musicians, security, dj's, they had row upon row of booths where people were selling paint, smart drinks, etc. A few friends of mine who had just completed a massage course, brought their massage tables, business cards, and were offering massages for a fee.

Two big guys took them up on the offer. I stood there and chatted with all four of them--the two guys and the masseuses--for twenty minutes while the two guys got their massages. When they got up to leave, the men sort of laughed and articulated that they had no intention of paying. One of the women started to hound the guy she had just massaged, following him through the crowd, getting vocal about it. I held the other back and said, "Let it go." Why? There was a heightened sense of danger right then. Everything changed in an instant the moment they indicated that they had no intention of paying, "you two just got ripped off, ha ha" and "what are you gonna do about it?"

The difference between above-board businesses and under-the-table business is vast. In the former, you call a collection agency. Different tenor in the latter. Following that spectrum, what does it mean when a prostitute is miles from home, in some gated community, on somebody else's turf, works, and is flatly told, "I ain't gonna pay ya"? How does that change the level of safety for her?

Anybody?

 

[BKS]

Is this true? She was not paid at all? I thought there was a dispute regarding how much Brewer was to pay her, not a dispute over whether to pay her at all! If this is true, it certainly puts a whole new spin on this case.

I would say that a client, in any business, who refuses to pay for services rendered is creating a hostile environment.

As for JB's putting his hands on SG, I thought that was in an effort to get her to come out from behind the couch and exit through the door--something both MP and JB had been attempting to do for a while.

If SG was getting ready to leave the Brewer home and settling up for payment, learns that JB does not intend to pay at all, that might very well be good reason for her to refuse to leave until she gets paid, or have the problem resolved. Is this a common problem in the escort business? When somebody refuses to pay, are there other implications that might include safety?

Perhaps the many phone calls SG placed to MP had to do with her first learning and trying to resolve the dispute with JB over payment, which would ultimately effect MP's pay, as well--or would it?

Yes that would effect Pak's pay because Shannan and he were business partners. They split the money. I agree those calls to Pak were probably in regards to money. Brewer has always claimed he never had sex with Shannan, that's why he didn't pay her. Ultimately he is just trying to delay the inevitable. Shannan lived in NJ, he set up an appointment with her to come to LI. She was transported to LI by her driver to engage in prostitution with Brewer. That's a crime in NY and NJ. Why haven't Pak and Brewer been arrested? A girl died there. Someone needs to start telling the truth!

 

[Seajay]

I always thought the girls got paid upfront before any services were rendered. Shannan had been in the business long enough to work out how she was going to do this to make sure she didn't get ripped off. MOO

If the phone calls were about Brewer not paying Shannan, why wouldn't Michael Pak say that, rather than to say he thought Shannan was trying to rip him off??

 

[BKS]

Is there anybody on this thread who is currently an escort or has been an escort in the past, or knows somebody who can answer to this?

This reminds me of something I witnessed about 20 years ago in SF at a hippy-dippy sort of rave gathering. Aside from the musicians, security, dj's, they had row upon row of booths where people were selling paint, smart drinks, etc. A few friends of mine who had just completed a massage course, brought their massage tables, business cards, and were offering massages for a fee.

Two big guys took them up on the offer. I stood there and chatted with all four of them--the two guys and the masseuses--for twenty minutes while the two guys got their massages. When they got up to leave, the men sort of laughed and articulated that they had no intention of paying. One of the women started to hound the guy she had just massaged, following him through the crowd, getting vocal about it. I held the other back and said, "Let it go." Why? There was a heightened sense of danger right then. Everything changed in an instant the moment they indicated that they had no intention of paying, "you two just got ripped off, ha ha" and "what are you gonna do about it?"

The difference between above-board businesses and under-the-table business is vast. In the former, you call a collection agency. Different tenor in the latter. Following that spectrum, what does it mean when a prostitute is miles from home, in some gated community, on somebody else's turf, works, and is flatly told, "I ain't gonna pay ya"? How does that change the level of safety for her?

Anybody?

What will be the consequences of not bringing home the money to her pimp/boyfriend or driver? There could be tragic consequences there. Also, those that are so bold as to not pay a prostitute for services rendered are a breed of their own. Dangerous low-lifes just asking trouble. IMHO

 

[Adler]

Yes that would effect Pak's pay because Shannan and he were business partners. They split the money. I agree those calls to Pak were probably in regards to money. Brewer has always claimed he never had sex with Shannan, that's why he didn't pay her. Ultimately he is just trying to delay the inevitable. Shannan lived in NJ, he set up an appointment with her to come to LI. She was transported to LI by her driver to engage in prostitution with Brewer. That's a crime in NY and NJ. Why haven't Pak and Brewer been arrested? A girl died there. Someone needs to start telling the truth!

With Brewer or the National Drug Dealer?

Or both?


What does it mean for a prostitute to hear the words, "We ain't gonna pay ya, now scram!" when she is way out in Oak Beach and has been there for hours? What runs through her head? Certainly, these snakes she's been hanging with for two hours are revealed in an instant to be enemy material, right? I mean, it's understood in an instant that all future business, for example, will no longer be a possibility. What else? For an escort, does it also mean that her life is in danger?

 

[Adler]

When did Pak say Shannan was trying rip him off? I never heard that one.

Good question. Did Pak ever say what those phones between him and Shannan were about? If so, what were they talking about? Anybody?

 

[Adler]

Too bad everybody involved insists on wearing sunglasses when interviewed. In sfgate today, an article about a book coming out in microexpressions and lie detection:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/The-lie-detective-S-F-psychologist-has-made-a-2768998.php#page-2

Who knows, just as dna technology today is allowing for the reheating (and convictions) of a lot of cold cases, perhaps this new science will one day help to solve today's emerging cold cases.

 

[BKS]

I always thought the girls got paid upfront before any services were rendered. Shannan had been in the business long enough to work out how she was going to do this to make sure she didn't get ripped off. MOO

If the phone calls were about Brewer not paying Shannan, why wouldn't Michael Pak say that, rather than to say he thought Shannan was trying to rip him off??

Thanks Seajay. When did Pak say Shannan was trying rip him off? I never heard that one. As far as I know Pak never really said what those phone calls were about either. Just wondering.

 

[BKS]

Too bad everybody involved insists on wearing sunglasses when interviewed. In sfgate today, an article about a book coming out in microexpressions and lie detection:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/The-lie-detective-S-F-psychologist-has-made-a-2768998.php#page-2

Who knows, just as dna technology today is allowing for the reheating (and convictions) of a lot of cold cases, perhaps this new science will one day help to solve today's emerging cold cases.

Watching the interview with Pak, he said "after Brewer grabbed her from behind, Shannan said uh, um, uh what did she say? oh yea, she said um you guys are trying to kill me" Come on Pak um, uh, yea what else? Take off those stupid glasses and get real. IMHO

 

[Justiceforever]

In response to Alder. I was an adult entertainer/escort/ call girl/ for ten years. Like mosts lings in life you live and learn. It didn' t take me long to figure out that you NEVER trust the lient to pay you after the call, because for one...they will dangle the proverbial carrot, expecting more than you are willing to give and if they are not happy with the services that you have provided...guess what...they dont wanna pay. At that point you can call your security if you have any and hope that the clientt doesnt want any troubwant any trouble or you can try other tactics like refusing to leave or exposing him. Either way it increases the drama and danger considerably! Even if you insist upon collecting up front there is the danger of them trying to physically take the money back which happens more than you would think. I wpuld love to elaborate more but at the moment I am bouncing around in a moving semi ( my husband drives truck) And its very hard to type on my touch screen phone! ; ) Later when we stop I can go a little more into it if u r still interested!

 

[Adler]

Watching the interview with Pak, he said "after Brewer grabbed her from behind, Shannan said uh, um, uh what did she say? oh yea, she said um you guys are trying to kill me" Come on Pak um, uh, yea what else? Take off those stupid glasses and get real. IMHO

Interesting observation there. It's not just Pak, though, it's all of them (not subscribing to a conspiracy theory here at all, btw). To me, Pak is more credible albeit obviously choosing his words with care.

There is something in that upcoming book about "distancing language" and vocabulary; a reference is made to Clinton's famous lie, and his choice of words with the televised statement, "I did not have sex with that woman." NB: "that woman" where he knew Monica L's name quite well at that point.

There was a clip of CPH interviewed briefly while standing in front of his doorway. I thought is choice of words odd; in response to a major series of killings in his hood, he says something like, "Whoever would do that is a very mean and very rude." I am misquoting, here, I know. The point is, I remember watching that and thinking did he just use the word "mean"? duh! Hyperbole? I dunno. Who would describe the actions of a serial killer as mean?

Again, the science is too new and all these dudes insist on wearing sunglasses. Their vocabulary, whether guarded, checked or off-the-cuff, is fascinating to me, and fortunately cannot be hidden behind glasses.

 

[Adler]

In response to Alder. I was an adult entertainer/escort/ call girl/ for ten years. Like mosts lings in life you live and learn. It didn' t take me long to figure out that you NEVER trust the lient to pay you after the call, because for one...they will dangle the proverbial carrot, expecting more than you are willing to give and if they are not happy with the services that you have provided...guess what...they dont wanna pay. At that point you can call your security if you have any and hope that the clientt doesnt want any troubwant any trouble or you can try other tactics like refusing to leave or exposing him. Either way it increases the drama and danger considerably! Even if you insist upon collecting up front there is the danger of them trying to physically take the money back which happens more than you would think. I wpuld love to elaborate more but at the moment I am bouncing around in a moving semi ( my husband drives truck) And its very hard to type on my touch screen phone! ; ) Later when we stop I can go a little more into it if u r still interested!

Yes, still interested. I think your take can shed light on SG's actions and behavior at Brewer's house in ways the rest here fail. And thank you very much for considering a lengthier response when the truck stops. Among my questions in advance is this: Would "acting crazy" serve as a strategy for getting paid from an unruly client if you were still under his roof and had a driver outside? What do you think happened at JB's? If you were in a situation where a client suddenly changed the terms of agreement and said, "We ain't gonna pay ya; now scram," at what point would you chalk it up to a loss? I think Pak was resigned to that when he entered the house to retrieve Shannan. What do you think? I think the people on this thread need your insight and information about a trade we know nothing about. Please do so, copiously, if you please. Thanks again.