Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[the quiet girl]

This is what I saw with a quick search.

Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement.

eta:
I seriously doubt anyone will be able to find the record as I just saw this.

How can I obtain a copy of my criminal record?
To obtain a copy of your Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) criminal record, please follow the procedures outlined by the FBI Identification Record Request. An FBI criminal record is confidential and can not be provided to anyone other than the subject of the fingerprint card. To obtain a copy of your local arrest record, please contact your local police department. In the event that arrests have occurred in several jurisdictions, contact your local police department to determine the appropriate state agency to contact.

 

[PAXIMUS]

This is what I saw with a quick search.

Interesting, most victims of "sex trafficking" dont pay their smugglers to bring them over and pimp them.

Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement.

 

[Redbird]

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS

MICHAEL MIN CHUL PAK 32483-177 42-White-M 04-01-2005 RELEASED

"That year, while working for a Jersey City agency, she met Pak, who identified himself to Newsday as an escort driver. Pak, 41, had served six months in prison after pleading guilty in August 2004 to a federal charge of conspiracy to misuse a passport. He was arrested on May 11, 2004, at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport after flying from Zurich with a woman from China who had a U.S. passport in someone else's name, according to the indictment.

Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement."

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214




Regarding Shannan screaming:

"Suffolk police have not released the 911 tape, but Suffolk Deputy Insp. Gerard McCarthy, commanding officer of the Special Services Bureau, said a dispatcher could hear a frantic woman and voices in the background trying to soothe her. Pak looked for Gilbert along Ocean Parkway but said he gave up at 6 a.m., driving back to New York City."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/private-detectives-on-missing-woman-case-1.2556306

 

[the quiet girl]

Interesting, most victims of "sex trafficking" dont pay their smugglers to bring them over and pimp them.

Well I have heard they do and when they get to the states they claim they still owe money to the smuggler and have to "work" it off. Also again when caught I don't think one is going to tell the truth vs a sound good excuse.
but who knows

 

[PAXIMUS]

Well I have heard they do and when they get to the states they claim they still owe money to the smuggler and have to "work" it off. Also again when caught I don't think one is going to tell the truth vs a sound good excuse.
but who knows

Fair point, some do indeed pay for smugglers to bring them here but the fact remains that Pak was charged with "conspiracy to misuse a passport" and not sex trafficking as some have claimed, including this "Robin Sax" whoever she is.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Fair point, some do indeed pay for smugglers to bring them here but the fact remains that Pak was charged with "conspiracy to misuse a passport" and not sex trafficking as some have claimed, including this "Robin Sax" whoever she is.

Robin Sax was, until about 2 months ago, the attorney for Shannan Gilbert's family. She also ran findshannangilbert.com which is now closed.

DomainTools
Whois Record For FindShannGilbert.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/findshannangilbert.com

"Registrant:
Sax Katzenstein, Robin
ATTN FINDSHANNANGILBERT.COM
care of Network Solutions
PO Box 459
Drums, PA. US 18222

Domain Name: FINDSHANNANGILBERT.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Sax Katzenstein, Robin"


48 Hours Mystery
Murder or accident: How did Shannan Gilbert die?
December 17, 2011
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_1...cident-how-did-shannan-gilbert-die/?pageNum=4

 

[dc20015]

Good points but we werent discussing SG being a victim of trafficking, the discussion was whether PAK was charged with sex trafficking or not, he wasnt, he was charged with conspiracy to misuse a passport.

Anyway we have been asked to move on from that and I will do so.

Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. I was just making a point about the different reasons people get into this business and using your link definition...it wasn't an answer/argument to one of your points. I realize that could be confusing.

Now moving on as the mod has asked. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[ynotdivein]

Peeps. What we are telling you is, MP's criminal history may be sleuthed. It is NOT currently ok to run with the idea that he was convicted of sex trafficking, because in fact he was not.

Speculation, inferences, assumptions, etc. should be clearly identified as such.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. I was just making a point about the different reasons people get into this business and using your link definition...it wasn't an answer/argument to one of your points. I realize that could be confusing.

Now moving on as the mod has asked. Just wanted to clarify.

Understood =)

 

[PAXIMUS]

Robin Sax was, until about 2 months ago, the attorney for Shannan Gilbert's family. She also ran findshannangilbert.com which is now closed.

DomainTools
Whois Record For FindShannGilbert.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/findshannangilbert.com

"Registrant:
Sax Katzenstein, Robin
ATTN FINDSHANNANGILBERT.COM
care of Network Solutions
PO Box 459
Drums, PA. US 18222

Domain Name: FINDSHANNANGILBERT.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Sax Katzenstein, Robin"


48 Hours Mystery
Murder or accident: How did Shannan Gilbert die?
December 17, 2011
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_1...cident-how-did-shannan-gilbert-die/?pageNum=4

Oh ok, I was only aware of John Ray, came in to this case a little late so I didnt know Sax was their attorney. I am a little disappointed in her saying he was a sex trafficker, even more so now that I know she is an officer of the court. Very irresonsible of her, the charge was conspiracy to misuse a passport, huge difference.

Thanks for the heads up on that.

 

[PAXIMUS]

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS

MICHAEL MIN CHUL PAK 32483-177 42-White-M 04-01-2005 RELEASED

"That year, while working for a Jersey City agency, she met Pak, who identified himself to Newsday as an escort driver. Pak, 41, had served six months in prison after pleading guilty in August 2004 to a federal charge of conspiracy to misuse a passport. He was arrested on May 11, 2004, at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport after flying from Zurich with a woman from China who had a U.S. passport in someone else's name, according to the indictment.

Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement."

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214




Regarding Shannan screaming:

"Suffolk police have not released the 911 tape, but Suffolk Deputy Insp. Gerard McCarthy, commanding officer of the Special Services Bureau, said a dispatcher could hear a frantic woman and voices in the background trying to soothe her. Pak looked for Gilbert along Ocean Parkway but said he gave up at 6 a.m., driving back to New York City."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/private-detectives-on-missing-woman-case-1.2556306

BBM, so again, this is important, we still have no credible LE source wrt to the 9-11 call that she told the police "they are trying to kill me." The source of that statement seems to be PAK, who some on here have chose to believe while others have called him a liar and even fingered him as the killer. I think we really need to put her saying "they are trying to kill me" over in the rumor pile at this point and stop quoting it as a factual statement.

What we do have is one detective who heard the call suggest she was calm, at least while INSIDE THE HOUSE while on the phone with 9-11, it then appears that she fled the house, while still on the line with 9-11 and was in hysterics (as per Mr. Dormer's statement) and running around wildly for reasons nobody understands at this time. Then we have a former driver of hers who COULD BE PAK or perhaps another driver, who said detective interviewed saying she had a history of flipping out and acting irrationally for no apparent reason, similar to the way she behaved at Mr. Brewer's. That is all we have, everything else is speculation at this time.

 

[nugzter]

BBM, so again, this is important, we still have no credible LE source wrt to the 9-11 call that she told the police "they are trying to kill me." The source of that statement seems to be PAK, who some on here have chose to believe while others have called him a liar and even fingered him as the killer. I think we really need to put her saying "they are trying to kill me" over in the rumor pile at this point and stop quoting it as a factual statement.

What we do have is one detective who heard the call suggest she was calm, at least while INSIDE THE HOUSE while on the phone with 9-11, it then appears that she fled the house, while still on the line with 9-11 and was in hysterics (as per Mr. Dormer's statement) and running around wildly for reasons nobody understands at this time. Then we have a former driver of hers who COULD BE PAK or perhaps another driver, who said detective interviewed saying she had a history of flipping out and acting irrationally for no apparent reason, similar to the way she behaved at Mr. Brewer's. That is all we have, everything else is speculation at this time.

Also we know the call was 23 mins. It is possible she started out calm and then it turned to "hysterics". MP claims she freaked out when JB put his hands on her in the house. So she could have then said "they are trying to kill me". According to MP he then thought she was trying to set him up and he left to his car. So did SG take off before MP left to his car? Or after?
So SG ran out of JB's place headed to GC's where he claims she was screaming "Help me, Help Me". He calls 911. 911 put 1 and one together and sent a unit. Meantime, SG darts out of GC's house to hide behind/under his boat. Enter MP in the SUV. GC confronts MP. SG darts from behind the boat down the road towards the gate. MP follows. After this we know another neighbor calls 911. SG is no longer seen alive.

This is a quick summary.

Now as we all know witness statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. Witness with the best of intentions have been known to exaggerate and in the heat of the moment forget or falsely remember things. LE has put all those involved thru the ringer. And have come to the best probable conclusion that SG ran into the marsh and possibly drowned. But until the ME report is released, we cannot say for sure.
But until then further sleuthing of the SG case is put on hold for me. It is a tragic case, despite the out come. I am here to sleuth for a brutal SK. I personally no longer see a connection to SG, except the fact that her unfortunate disappearance led to the discovery of the GB4 and the Mannorville victims. For me, this is where I will now place my "man hours".

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I just found a Newsday article that quotes Chief of Detective Dominick Varrone describing Shannan during the 20 minute 911 call as "disoriented and confused":

"4:51 a.m.: Gilbert calls 911. During the 20-minute call, she "seemed disoriented, confused" and "did not seem rational," said Suffolk Chief of Detectives Dominick Varrone."

Newsday
Cops: Remains likely those of
Shannan Gilbert
Originally published: December 13, 2011 8:10am
By Tania Lopez and Bart Jones
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-remains-likely-those-of-shannan-gilbert-1.3385742


**It appears that Newsday is publishing conflicting reports regarding Shannan Gilbert's demeanor during the 911 call. A little over a month later from when the above article was published, a letter is published from Det. Vincent Stephan of West Sayville stating Shannan was calm during the 911 call:


Newsday
Letter: All-out effort for Shannan
Published: January 23, 2012
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/lette...nnan-1.3473520

"In the house at Oak Beach, Gilbert was not about to be murdered. Her demeanor on the tape was calm. You can hear male voices on the tape, and they are calm. At no time during this call was she desperate. From what I heard on the call, Gilbert was not speaking as if she were in danger. Despite this, she decided to run from the house and her driver, whom she relied on to take her back to New Jersey. During the investigation, I interviewed an individual who drove Gilbert to her "dates" in the past. He said she would leave houses and apartments in the same fashion as she did in Oak Beach. He described her as being a paranoid person and at times acting irrationally."

 

[truthspider]

BBM, so again, this is important, we still have no credible LE source wrt to the 9-11 call that she told the police "they are trying to kill me." The source of that statement seems to be PAK, who some on here have chose to believe while others have called him a liar and even fingered him as the killer. I think we really need to put her saying "they are trying to kill me" over in the rumor pile at this point and stop quoting it as a factual statement.

What we do have is one detective who heard the call suggest she was calm, at least while INSIDE THE HOUSE while on the phone with 9-11, it then appears that she fled the house, while still on the line with 9-11 and was in hysterics (as per Mr. Dormer's statement) and running around wildly for reasons nobody understands at this time. Then we have a former driver of hers who COULD BE PAK or perhaps another driver, who said detective interviewed saying she had a history of flipping out and acting irrationally for no apparent reason, similar to the way she behaved at Mr. Brewer's. That is all we have, everything else is speculation at this time.

rumor? so we have GC, Pak and the 911 operator saying it, and it's rumor? <modsnip>

 

[Redbird]

I think we need a legal expert to tell us if the crime he was convicted of was legalize for sex trafficking. Up until two months ago and the new scenario given to us by LE, all articles and comments I have read make the assumption he was sex trafficking from the charges he was convicted of. I think this is a somewhat important point because there is the possibility in my opinion that Pak was deeply involved in the Oak Beach community, and may have supplied women to other residents, unbeknownst to Shannan. There is much sleuthing that needs to be done about Paks background and he was by some accounts the last person to see Shannan alive. Shannan's mother previously stated that on the 911 tape she named "Mike" as the person trying to kill her. This information was discussed on previous threads here. The two women with the police sketches have not been identified and IMO it may well be because they were from another country, brought here for sex trafficking purposes. The recent "facts" we are receiving from posters and some LE are so different from the facts we had in the beginning (reported by MSM sources and LE) I can hardly recognize this being the same case with which we started. There is such a flood of new information coming from posters who have recently joined which I believe to be purposeful misinformation it will now be quite a job to sort it all out. And of course having to go back over everything and look up all the many articles which will then be immediately disputed has to me made this forum almost useless for trying to find and expose Shannans and/or the GB4 and Manorville SK. This is a very complicated case and up until the closing of the LISK site, I feel we did some excellent work with any misinformation almost immediately corrected by dedicated, honest members with no hidden agenda. It is sad to see all the good work destroyed.

 

[dc20015]

I think we need a legal expert to tell us if the crime he was convicted of was legalize for sex trafficking. Up until two months ago and the new scenario given to us by LE, all articles and comments I have read make the assumption he was sex trafficking from the charges he was convicted of. I think this is a somewhat important point because there is the possibility in my opinion that Pak was deeply involved in the Oak Beach community, and may have supplied women to other residents, unbeknownst to Shannan. There is much sleuthing that needs to be done about Paks background and he was by some accounts the last person to see Shannan alive. Shannan's mother previously stated that on the 911 tape she named "Mike" as the person trying to kill her. This information was discussed on previous threads here. The two women with the police sketches have not been identified and IMO it may well be because they were from another country, brought here for sex trafficking purposes. The recent "facts" we are receiving from posters and some LE are so different from the facts we had in the beginning (reported by MSM sources and LE) I can hardly recognize this being the same case with which we started. There is such a flood of new information coming from posters who have recently joined which I believe to be purposeful misinformation it will now be quite a job to sort it all out. And of course having to go back over everything and look up all the many articles which will then be immediately disputed has to me made this forum almost useless for trying to find and expose Shannans and/or the GB4 and Manorville SK. This is a very complicated case and up until the closing of the LISK site, I feel we did some excellent work with any misinformation almost immediately corrected by dedicated, honest members with no hidden agenda. It is sad to see all the good work destroyed.

I hate to be a link hound, but do you have one? I know MG has repeatedly said SG named her attacker, but not that she ever named this person or used the name "Mike".

This probably could straddle into the Pak thread, but I would be very interested in knowing about his activity at the formal service they used to belong to and if he worked with any other women in addition to SG and whether these ladies were ever/commonly hooked up with clients in the OB area. I'd also be interested in knowing if any of these victims ever met/knew each other, but its hard to interview dead people.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Also we know the call was 23 mins. It is possible she started out calm and then it turned to "hysterics". MP claims she freaked out when JB put his hands on her in the house. So she could have then said "they are trying to kill me". According to MP he then thought she was trying to set him up and he left to his car. So did SG take off before MP left to his car? Or after?
So SG ran out of JB's place headed to GC's where he claims she was screaming "Help me, Help Me". He calls 911. 911 put 1 and one together and sent a unit. Meantime, SG darts out of GC's house to hide behind/under his boat. Enter MP in the SUV. GC confronts MP. SG darts from behind the boat down the road towards the gate. MP follows. After this we know another neighbor calls 911. SG is no longer seen alive.

This is a quick summary.

Now as we all know witness statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. Witness with the best of intentions have been known to exaggerate and in the heat of the moment forget or falsely remember things. LE has put all those involved thru the ringer. And have come to the best probable conclusion that SG ran into the marsh and possibly drowned. But until the ME report is released, we cannot say for sure.
But until then further sleuthing of the SG case is put on hold for me. It is a tragic case, despite the out come. I am here to sleuth for a brutal SK. I personally no longer see a connection to SG, except the fact that her unfortunate disappearance led to the discovery of the GB4 and the Mannorville victims. For me, this is where I will now place my "man hours".

Good work as usual. Good information here. I think its safe to say this is accurate given the evidence we do have.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I think we need a legal expert to tell us if the crime he was convicted of was legalize for sex trafficking. Up until two months ago and the new scenario given to us by LE, all articles and comments I have read make the assumption he was sex trafficking from the charges he was convicted of. I think this is a somewhat important point because there is the possibility in my opinion that Pak was deeply involved in the Oak Beach community, and may have supplied women to other residents, unbeknownst to Shannan. There is much sleuthing that needs to be done about Paks background and he was by some accounts the last person to see Shannan alive. Shannan's mother previously stated that on the 911 tape she named "Mike" as the person trying to kill her. This information was discussed on previous threads here. The two women with the police sketches have not been identified and IMO it may well be because they were from another country, brought here for sex trafficking purposes. The recent "facts" we are receiving from posters and some LE are so different from the facts we had in the beginning (reported by MSM sources and LE) I can hardly recognize this being the same case with which we started. There is such a flood of new information coming from posters who have recently joined which I believe to be purposeful misinformation it will now be quite a job to sort it all out. And of course having to go back over everything and look up all the many articles which will then be immediately disputed has to me made this forum almost useless for trying to find and expose Shannans and/or the GB4 and Manorville SK. This is a very complicated case and up until the closing of the LISK site, I feel we did some excellent work with any misinformation almost immediately corrected by dedicated, honest members with no hidden agenda. It is sad to see all the good work destroyed.

BBM
Conspiracy to misuse a passport is not the same as sex trafficking, that is for certain.

 

[Redbird]

I hate to be a link hound, but do you have one? I know MG has repeatedly said SG named her attacker, but not that she ever named this person or used the name "Mike".

This probably could straddle into the Pak thread, but I would be very interested in knowing about his activity at the formal service they used to belong to and if he worked with any other women in addition to SG and whether these ladies were ever/commonly hooked up with clients in the OB area. I'd also be interested in knowing if any of these victims ever met/knew each other, but its hard to interview dead people.

The information about MG and "Mike" was discussed in the thread listed below. It may have extended past page 6, but this should be enough information for you if you are truly interested. At the time I found it very interesting, even riveting. The discussion was good enough for the mods to not demand any more links and the discussion was allowed to stand.


10-18-2011, 09:30 PM #139

NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11 Page 6

to
10-19-2011, 05:15 AM #148
goathairjones

<Modsnip>

 

[WINDSOR]

Points I would like to make.

1) It does not matter one iota what MP was convicted for in relation to the Chinese girl that was coming to America. The day SG died, MP was providing transportation for a sex worker and earning a portion of his living by that means. If he was hired by JB as some have implied, he was also facilitating the sale of sexual services. It really does not matter what name you give it, sex-trafficking, pimping, living off the avails of prostitution, a procurer or flesh-peddler; he was aiding and abetting the traffic of sexual services for money............It is what it is.

2) There is a possibility that SG died as a result of natural causes, and there is a possibility that her death (even if it involved foul play) has no linkage to the LISK.

However when you weigh all the evidence, rumors, speculations, probabilities, hearsay and opinions, the likelihood that foul play was involved with SG's death and that it had some linkage to the LISK are pretty strong.

3) I believe the longer it takes the autopsy results to be released the greater the chance that foul play was involved; It is my understanding that drowning and hypothermia deaths are relatively routine and identifiable even on skeletal remains. The fact there is a long delay already in the release of the results leads me to believe the ME has found evidence that is inconsistent with a natural cause death.


MOO