Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[scandi]

Can anyone fill me in on when this new 48 Hours is airing? I can't find the info. Sorry if I'm OT.

Hi Susan, First I've heard of it. Posters here are very good about giving a forewarning for an upcoming show. I would love to see what could be a new tack on the case.

Since Shannan's body was found haven't there been a lot of changes within SCPD? I wonder if any locals know if the new force {with a new lead investigator I believe}, really believe it was an accident?

 

[susan1122]

Hi Susan, First I've heard of it. Posters here are very good about giving a forewarning for an upcoming show. I would love to see what could be a new tack on the case.

Since Shannan's body was found haven't there been a lot of changes within SCPD? I wonder if any locals know if the new force {with a new lead investigator I believe}, really believe it was an accident?

Scandi, yes, from what I have read there have been a lot of changes. And so little word coming from LE. I am so curious as to what the opinion of LE is now, if it has changed. As they say, I would love to be a fly on the wall.

I read about the 48 Hours here....quite a few pages ago, I think. Maybe it was just a rumor.

Jmo.

 

[scandi]

Scandi, yes, from what I have read there have been a lot of changes. And so little word coming from LE. I am so curious as to what the opinion of LE is now, if it has changed. As they say, I would love to be a fly on the wall.

I read about the 48 Hours here....quite a few pages ago, I think. Maybe it was just a rumor.

Jmo.

I think it must be the 48 Hours show we already saw. If you haven't seen it maybe you can Google it.

I just did, lol, and they did a show mid July on LISK and another mid December 2011. I didn't see anything about a new show. ;}

 

[Theforeigner]

Oh well, what did I say?

December 2010, when the first bodies popped up, I said, there would be more - check

March 2011, I profiled there are two SKs around. - the vote on that is still open, at least as long as you ignore then entirely opposite signatures.

March or April 2011, I said the first time, SG's body is out there in the marsh - check

June, I had my profile so far ready to put it on my website. All I predicted is either still open or proven yet. Not one mistake yet - check

I mentioned at least two times, it would be a good idea to look at the tapes of traffic cams along the Expressway before those were overwritten - hard to prove, botched by SCPD till the tapes were overwritten.

I predicted, when they catch LISK, they will find, he grew up in NYC. - this is still in the open.

and so on and so on. So technically, all I predicted is in the meantime either proven right or still open since there is no chance without LE's cooperation to prove it. Which I consider kind of a deadlock. Sooo, if my not so smart moments are the moments, I make predictions, nobody want to believe in, but which prove later as accurate, guess, what can be done, if you stop foaming out of your mouth and start to do something productive. At the moment, from my point of view, you're just a waste of time.

Peter

Peter Brendt, I´m not going to argue your self-praise (even though I'm tempted).

But let me put it this way;
Have you ever experienced beeing at a gathering of people, who should either solve some kind of task, or a gathering of people for pleasure, like a party or a dinner, and then, shortley one of the people in the group, slowly but surely, crave/take more and more space and time.
Soon the remaining group begin to leave the place, where a few are left, someone who listens intense to the bulky person, and some individuals vainly trying to get the bulky person to understand that he or she is not necessarily right about everything and that he or she should learn to hold back so that others can have their say.
It mostly ends up with the bulky person find him or herself more or less alone and that the task is not resolved the way it should, or the dinner/party experience a downturn and the party participants removes them selfs from the bulky person.

Somthing for you to think about.

And I´m sorry to say; I read and post less and less here on the WS LISK case due to that I´m SO tired of whenever I enter a thread on the LISK case, I see that PB hatt all over the place.


FYI:
I just took a quick look through the last 21 pages (22 days) on this particular thread:
504 posts all in all
168 are yours Peter (and lots of them are VERY long)
So your posts is 1/3 of all the posts from May 22 to June 13 (22 days)

And that is ONLY on this particular thread.

I belive that if you swapped some of your self-praise with some good old sound introspection, and understod that somtimes "less is more" and that a certain amount of humility benefits both one's own abilities and others' openness and desire to participate in the activities.
And if you do just that, it might even get back some of the many good, intelligent and interesting posters who have left this WS LISK task lately.

I hope you choose to read this with openess...

 

[Seaslug44]

Peter Brendt, I´m not going to argue your self-praise (even though I'm tempted).

But let me put it this way;
Have you ever experienced beeing at a gathering of people, who should either solve some kind of task, or a gathering of people for pleasure, like a party or a dinner, and then, shortley one of the people in the group, slowly but surely, crave/take more and more space and time.
Soon the remaining group begin to leave the place, where a few are left, someone who listens intense to the bulky person, and some individuals vainly trying to get the bulky person to understand that he or she is not necessarily right about everything and that he or she should learn to hold back so that others can have their say.
It mostly ends up with the bulky person find him or herself more or less alone and that the task is not resolved the way it should, or the dinner/party experience a downturn and the party participants removes them selfs from the bulky person.

Somthing for you to think about.

And I´m sorry to say; I read and post less and less here on the WS LISK case due to that I´m SO tired of whenever I enter a thread on the LISK case, I see that PB hatt all over the place.


FYI:
I just took a quick look through the last 21 pages (22 days) on this particular thread:
504 posts all in all
168 are yours Peter (and lots of them are VERY long)
So your posts is 1/3 of all the posts from May 22 to June 13 (22 days)

And that is ONLY on this particular thread.

I belive that if you swapped some of your self-praise with some good old sound introspection, and understod that somtimes "less is more" and that a certain amount of humility benefits both one's own abilities and others' openness and desire to participate in the activities.
And if you do just that, it might even get back some of the many good, intelligent and interesting posters who have left this WS LISK task lately.

I hope you choose to read this with openess...

On the other hand, a voice of reason and logic (such as Peter's) should not be asked to keep silent simply because he is correct so many times. Many of us happen to enjoye Peter's posts. Sometimes we don't fell so nice when he points out flaws in our theories, but isn't that wat makes debating so great?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I think sometimes posters have a tendency to make cases overly complicated. When it all boils down, I bet Shannan's last few hours leading up to and including her death will be found to be a very simple situation, like:

. . . after partying for a couple of hours she ran to the wrong place at the right time and was nabbed by a guy who pulled her into his car/truck and then murdered her.

Simple, could be true or may not. But I don't think anything about her IQ has anything to do with her going missing. IMO

PS: In the Scott Peterson case we learned many things that were used to speculate about what really happened to Laci and Connor. It turns out almost none of those things happened. So I have been very guilty of making a case overly complicated. Believe me. ;}

You realize, the whole IQ discussion wasn't referring to SG or the case?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter Brendt, I´m not going to argue your self-praise (even though I'm tempted).

But let me put it this way;
Have you ever experienced beeing at a gathering of people, who should either solve some kind of task, or a gathering of people for pleasure, like a party or a dinner, and then, shortley one of the people in the group, slowly but surely, crave/take more and more space and time.
Soon the remaining group begin to leave the place, where a few are left, someone who listens intense to the bulky person, and some individuals vainly trying to get the bulky person to understand that he or she is not necessarily right about everything and that he or she should learn to hold back so that others can have their say.
It mostly ends up with the bulky person find him or herself more or less alone and that the task is not resolved the way it should, or the dinner/party experience a downturn and the party participants removes them selfs from the bulky person.

Somthing for you to think about.

And I´m sorry to say; I read and post less and less here on the WS LISK case due to that I´m SO tired of whenever I enter a thread on the LISK case, I see that PB hatt all over the place.


FYI:
I just took a quick look through the last 21 pages (22 days) on this particular thread:
504 posts all in all
168 are yours Peter (and lots of them are VERY long)
So your posts is 1/3 of all the posts from May 22 to June 13 (22 days)

And that is ONLY on this particular thread.

I belive that if you swapped some of your self-praise with some good old sound introspection, and understod that somtimes "less is more" and that a certain amount of humility benefits both one's own abilities and others' openness and desire to participate in the activities.
And if you do just that, it might even get back some of the many good, intelligent and interesting posters who have left this WS LISK task lately.

I hope you choose to read this with openess...

Wouldn't be necessary if there wouldn't be the permanent regurgitating of the same technical impossible theories. Now we wait for "the magic" of the "foul-play-faction".
Oh and btw, I am really not interested in partying around here. I honestly assumed, this is about solving cases. Correct me if I'm wrong with that assumption.

 

[Samantha Spade]

New profile then? By this theory our unsub has the IQ of a piece of veggie, so search the veggie gardens. Which, of course, since at the same time Brewer (a former financial advisor and CPH (a doctor) remain the main pivot points of all conspiracy theories, and both have their degrees, brings some other questions up.
So, my suggestion is, we forget that whole veggie-IQ theory beginning with Samantha's original post?

Peter

-

This is where the discussion of IQ came in.
I was just trying to come up with a possible explanation to PB's question of why would
JB let Shannan stay on the phone with 911 for so long if he intended to harm her. PB obviously thinks it is an absolutely ridiculous explanation. hey, maybe it is.
Who knows. there is a lot we dont know. my brother was a homicide lieutenant in a very dangerous city until his death. My dad was a police chief. from their experience, and from mine as a PI. career criminals often do really stupid things. Usually it is what finally gets them caught. now im not saying jb or anyone else in his house that night is a killer, but how can we say with surety that they are not? There is so much we dont know.

Sometimes these discussions remind me of that scene with the Professor and Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School.

I'm a lover not a fighter. we all don't have to agree, but in expressing our criticism can we please try to leave out the cryptic ad hominem attacks?

 

[sean62185]

Peter Brendt, I´m not going to argue your self-praise (even though I'm tempted).

But let me put it this way;
Have you ever experienced beeing at a gathering of people, who should either solve some kind of task, or a gathering of people for pleasure, like a party or a dinner, and then, shortley one of the people in the group, slowly but surely, crave/take more and more space and time.
Soon the remaining group begin to leave the place, where a few are left, someone who listens intense to the bulky person, and some individuals vainly trying to get the bulky person to understand that he or she is not necessarily right about everything and that he or she should learn to hold back so that others can have their say.
It mostly ends up with the bulky person find him or herself more or less alone and that the task is not resolved the way it should, or the dinner/party experience a downturn and the party participants removes them selfs from the bulky person.

Somthing for you to think about.

And I´m sorry to say; I read and post less and less here on the WS LISK case due to that I´m SO tired of whenever I enter a thread on the LISK case, I see that PB hatt all over the place.


FYI:
I just took a quick look through the last 21 pages (22 days) on this particular thread:
504 posts all in all
168 are yours Peter (and lots of them are VERY long)
So your posts is 1/3 of all the posts from May 22 to June 13 (22 days)

And that is ONLY on this particular thread.

I belive that if you swapped some of your self-praise with some good old sound introspection, and understod that somtimes "less is more" and that a certain amount of humility benefits both one's own abilities and others' openness and desire to participate in the activities.
And if you do just that, it might even get back some of the many good, intelligent and interesting posters who have left this WS LISK task lately.

I hope you choose to read this with openess...

This case is cold, and the forum has slowed down.. so obviously regulars are going to clutter the threads. I actually really enjoy his post's. Sure he has a bit of snark to his post, but they are interesting.. excellent reference, for cases, patterns of the men responsible for similar crimes and is generally a great resource. You should embrace a poster like him, instead of figuratively taking your ball and going home, because you don't like his tone or that his opinion is different than yours.

Peter, SS, and a handful of others are vital to this particular board. Because more often than not, they use logic, go by the facts that we know, and as I said earlier a lot of great references and helpful informaton.

 

[BKS]

Peter Brendt, I´m not going to argue your self-praise (even though I'm tempted).

But let me put it this way;
Have you ever experienced beeing at a gathering of people, who should either solve some kind of task, or a gathering of people for pleasure, like a party or a dinner, and then, shortley one of the people in the group, slowly but surely, crave/take more and more space and time.
Soon the remaining group begin to leave the place, where a few are left, someone who listens intense to the bulky person, and some individuals vainly trying to get the bulky person to understand that he or she is not necessarily right about everything and that he or she should learn to hold back so that others can have their say.
It mostly ends up with the bulky person find him or herself more or less alone and that the task is not resolved the way it should, or the dinner/party experience a downturn and the party participants removes them selfs from the bulky person.

Somthing for you to think about.

And I´m sorry to say; I read and post less and less here on the WS LISK case due to that I´m SO tired of whenever I enter a thread on the LISK case, I see that PB hatt all over the place.


FYI:
I just took a quick look through the last 21 pages (22 days) on this particular thread:
504 posts all in all
168 are yours Peter (and lots of them are VERY long)
So your posts is 1/3 of all the posts from May 22 to June 13 (22 days)

And that is ONLY on this particular thread.

I belive that if you swapped some of your self-praise with some good old sound introspection, and understod that somtimes "less is more" and that a certain amount of humility benefits both one's own abilities and others' openness and desire to participate in the activities.
And if you do just that, it might even get back some of the many good, intelligent and interesting posters who have left this WS LISK task lately.

I hope you choose to read this with openess...

Amen! :goodpost:

 

[Just K]

There is nothing new here and until there is it appears as if there will only be snark, bickering, and one-upmanship. IMO, of course.

Less and less reason to revisit the individual threads. New Information, from LE, the ME or a family member, is what is needed.

 

[Adler]

Honestly, I think the tip may have come from FBI research into this case, possibly the aerial photos? Or maybe someone in LE suddenly came to their senses and decided to search the most logical place. Otherwise, the person who gave the tip knows a lot more!

Or the tip came from the person who put out the false rumor (we'll call him the Easter Bunny) about the landscape business owner. The SK knew where the body was and the timing of it all it fit so well in the story line.

LE must hold out on accurate information because they do not have enough evidence to do anything about it if they do have a possible serial killer in sight. What to do? Surveillance. Release false information. Withhold accurate information. Set traps.

The next time somebody stumbles upon a dumping ground for a serial killer they should hide behind a shrub and wait for body number 12.

Maybe that is sort of what they did or are doing.

 

[Adler]

You realize, the whole IQ discussion wasn't referring to SG or the case?

Thanks for clarifying PB. And to clarify the point at hand: Shannan Gilbert had a relatively higher than average IQ.

 

[Seaslug44]

-
we all don't have to agree, but in expressing our criticism can we please try to leave out the cryptic ad hominem attacks?

I totally agree.

 

[Seaslug44]

Thanks for clarifying PB. And to clarify the point at hand: Shannan Gilbert had a relatively higher than average IQ.

Yes. Just goes to show us that even an intelligent, good person can be driven to make "Bad Decisions" (as her sister stated) when they are "troubled" (also quoting her sister).

 

[NoviceSleuth]

I think sometimes posters have a tendency to make cases overly complicated. When it all boils down, I bet Shannan's last few hours leading up to and including her death will be found to be a very simple situation, like:

. . . after partying for a couple of hours she ran to the wrong place at the right time and was nabbed by a guy who pulled her into his car/truck and then murdered her.

Simple, could be true or may not. But I don't think anything about her IQ has anything to do with her going missing. IMO



PS: In the Scott Peterson case we learned many things that were used to speculate about what really happened to Laci and Connor. It turns out almost none of those things happened. So I have been very guilty of making a case overly complicated. Believe me. ;}

Sandi,
I agree with you! This board would confuse a SK with all of its math, logic, equations, IQ's, etc., postings!!! With the lack of information coming from LE giving us a chance to really try and figure out this case, this board is instead becoming way too overly complicated and egos seem more important than respecting others' opinions and working together.

MG said the 911 tape ended with what appeared to be Shannan being "grabbed". This could be when the perp got her. Also, the ME stated "there was no cocaine found during SG's autopsy". Shannon used drugs but IMO wasn't an addict.

Luck, common sense, street smarts, probability, attention to details, immediate and conscientious followup on all clues and tips, "gut" feelings, slipups and mistakes made by the perp, LE working together, etc. - All of this, IMO, is more likely to catch a SK than using "rocket science" mathematical formulas.

 

[CMan0928]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

Brewer, who calls himself a spiritual, holistic guy who couldn’t even kill a plant....

Sure. That describes just about every cocaine user out there.

 

[Just K]

Something to chew on. IF the 911 call indeed ended with Someone pulling SG into a vehicle then perhaps she jumped out and proceeded to run, scream and knock on doors after her first escape from the vehicle. Then GC calls 911 and SG runs off being followed by Pak in his dark SUV. That might also explain why her jacket was found in the road.

 

[Seaslug44]

Regarding the "Pulled into a Truck" story, it has been repeaded many times but it has only one source; what Mari Gilbert told to an ABC reporter;

"Her last phone call was 21 minutes to 911, when she was grabbed and pulled into a truck, the police missed her by about 5," said Mari Gilbert, Shannon's mother.

"She was basically running away, trying to leave, and it was her going 'get away from me, get away from me', running and knocking on neighbor's doors," said Sherre Gilberg, Shannon's sister.

"Screaming, 'help me, help me, he's trying to kill me," Mari Gilbert said.

Gilbert's family did not hear the 911 calls themselves, but say detectives told them about it and that Shannon, who was working as a prostitute, named her attacker.

The family says it was someone she knew.

-Original ABC Report

I have always found it odd that this report of being pulled into a truck has never been repeated by LE or the DA.

Seriously, how does one know that a person on a phone was pulled into a truck?

Does SG scream out the words "PLEASE DON'T PULL ME INTO YOUR TRUCK" while on the phone?

Why is it that MG made another statement that cannot be verified?

 

[Peter Brendt]

-

This is where the discussion of IQ came in.
I was just trying to come up with a possible explanation to PB's question of why would
JB let Shannan stay on the phone with 911 for so long if he intended to harm her. PB obviously thinks it is an absolutely ridiculous explanation. hey, maybe it is.
Who knows. there is a lot we dont know. my brother was a homicide lieutenant in a very dangerous city until his death. My dad was a police chief. from their experience, and from mine as a PI. career criminals often do really stupid things. Usually it is what finally gets them caught. now im not saying jb or anyone else in his house that night is a killer, but how can we say with surety that they are not? There is so much we dont know.

Sometimes these discussions remind me of that scene with the Professor and Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School.

I'm a lover not a fighter. we all don't have to agree, but in expressing our criticism can we please try to leave out the cryptic ad hominem attacks?

Well, the time the alleged killer was sitting on his couch and did, whatever he did, while the intended victim was on the phone with the police for 23 minutes was only one of the points that sounded ridiculous to me. But whatever, I have posted the list of open questions to the "foul play faction" and now we wait for them "to do their magic"
The personal attack thing started with the accusation, that everyone, who includes known facts from SG's life would slander the victim. So, there is an easy way to avoid such mud battle. Just don't try such under the belt attacks anymore then there's no need to react on them, isn't there?

Peter