Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #1

[thefirstman]

Thank you Richard for responding.

I had written you a private note a couple months ago and did not hear from you. Maybe you did not get it.

I also wrote to the MCPD lead investigator on the case and until yesterday got next to nothing from him. Prior to getting this recent note I wondered why I was getting such a cool or non-response from him.

He said a few things to me which I want to comment on this site, but I want to respond to you first.

I do not mean to underestimate Coffey. That is, I get it that he was a shrewd cold blooded killer of children. A kidnapper, a sexual predator and a murderer.

I also appreciate and respect that the USA was infested with serial killers in the 1970's. It was the perfect storm. Excellent transportation systems, with cars and super highways. A woman's revolution that had girls and women expressing freedom in ways that prior to that moment were often unthinkable. The involvement and then the end of the Vietnam war, which represented the conflict about how America was going to treat our youth, especially young men - so many were exposed to such violence and then were in essence treated as if they were disposable and unwanted. The ever increasing availability of narcotics. Social fragmentation. Sexual revolution which led to an innocence that was violated by these above mentioned dark forces.

Add to this wholly inadequate police forces that were highly territorial. Police forces often refused to communicate vital communication to other law enforcement entities. Take the Secret Service in 1976 when they arrested DeBardeleben for the first time for counterfeiting. They found homemade *advertiser censored* in that house along with his printing press, but did NOTHING. And Those agents lived here in the DC area so they HAD to have known about the Lyon girls. Whether he did it or not had they done the basic human thing of examining the evidence in that time frame, then we would not be having this conversation. But hey!

Police forces of that day were completely lacking the sophisticated data banks and DNA testing that makes arrests and convictions much more possible. Plus it was much more rare to have women on the police force, or as prosecuting lawyers - archaic laws and attitudes about sexual crimes against women and so on.

These factors and more led to the reality that our nation was being preyed upon by many, many, many of the Fred Coffey variety. So some of my position is less about underestimating Coffey, and much of it speaks to this perfect storm that reveals that so many police forces failed to be able to contend with these killers preying upon our communities - especially young girls and women.

Could Coffey of done this crime? Of course he could have.

So far I have yet to hear a compelling crime theory that integrate Coffey in terms of his criminal profile and this crime. I was born around the same time as Kate Lyon and grew up in a suburban neighborhood 3 or 4 miles on the other side of Wheaton plaza. I rode up to the Plaza with my brothers on our bikes with great regularity. We would go to "Planters Peanuts" ( about a quarter mile from Wheaton plaza on Georgia Ave, south of Wheaton Library, I think they call it the Nut House now) and buy candy and sell in a candy stand in the neighborhood.

I say NO WAY those girls got into a car with a guy without some compelling reason(s). So until I hear a way Coffey could have done this first most important act of kidnapping - getting them into the car with him - I am just not inclined to believe he did this crime.

Other things too, like the multiple kidnapping, a few blocks from their home (police today state they were on the streets of Kensington very close to their house). Kids like to walk, especially in their own neighborhoods. The walking becomes a symbol of freedom and belonging. While walking a mile or mile and half home from school I often refused rides from next door neighbor's parents because the walk was very much part of the adventure. And as a boy in the same time frame, and in a very similar location my friends and brothers and I NEVER took a ride with people we did not know.

Other things too work against Coffey. His behavior in August of 75 of quitting and running in such a reactive way would be incongruent with his actual behavior if he had done these crimes. His behavior was to stick around for months with a sketch that can be likened to his face associated with the hottest case in history (up to that point in time) in Maryland. That would mean his sketch would be all over the papers, the news for a crime that had the DC area traumatized, and its citizens in white hot rage!

That means a relatively squeamish character was preying on Montgomery county's girls in public, at our malls and then was plastered all over the newspapers, television as a TRM, and stuck around to work some job and live in a rinky dink motel on Rockville Pike.

Any way we cut it, what I know about Coffey indicates that he was not a highly organized, highly premeditated criminal. He was a highly lethal, psychosexual predator. But history proves that the kidnapper and most likely killer of these girls would have most likely needed a safe house, an impeccable disposal system all of which require high levels of organization, skill and planning. Was Coffey capable of this kind of premeditation? Maybe. Did his known crimes display this kind of behavior. As far as I know, no.

Lastly MCPD never could bring him to trial. Its hard to know if they ever even came close. That does not mean he did not do it, but it does mean that he was a guy in circulation circa 1975, working a job with a boss and co-workers and the police had the advantage of live witnesses in 1987 and nothing could be established.

I say all of this and I am open. So far no-one has ever matched his crime profile and this crime in any credible way for me.

 

[thefirstman]

Now to speak of MCPD's response to my emphatic requests of them to respond to my crime theory.

DeBardeleben is a definite suspect today. Much time and energy is going into discovering if he did the crime presently. MCPD are exploring potential connections between crimes in Pittsburg and Philedelphia areas in the 74 to 76 time frame to this Lyon sisters crime.

MCPD stated that they know a great deal about the missing trio case. I have made contact with a sibling of a missing girl in that case via his website Missingtrio.com and he has stated that he had never heard of the Lyon sisters case prior to my notes to him. Furthermore, he stated that the Fort Worth police dept are working very closely with him presently and they knew nothing about the Lyon girls. So if MCPD knows about the missing trio and are actively pursuing DeBardeleben as a supect why do they have no contact with the FWPD?

MCPD claimed to have looked at DeBardeleben aggressively in 83 when he was arrested.

I have trouble believing this at face value. If he were, why didn't the police ask for the public's assistance as they had with Mileski in 82 and Coffey in 87?

Also I have demonstrated that it seems highly unlikely that the MCPD had a working police impersonation theory on the Lyon sisters crimes from 1975 to 1987. Had they had this police impersonation theory they would have had to have warned the public prior to his arrest in 83. And they would have been compelled to call upon the public to help investigate DeBardeleben in 83-86 if they had this known police impersonator, kidnapper, rapist, murderer while he was in police custody. They did not. Make what you will of that.

MCPD refute the TRM sketch as valid in any meaningful way today. They state that there were 2 TRM's. One in PG county and another in Montgomery county. They know who the PG county TRM was/is. He was definitively ruled out as a suspect. Sketches then become unreliable because witnesses to the two TRM have created a cross fertilized sketch of two different men. Again, make what you will of that.

Also, MCPD stated that the IBM executive - was not an executive - but a low level person in IBM. Who knows? But that is what MCPD said to me about it.

 

[Richard]

...
I do not mean to underestimate Coffey. That is, I get it that he was a shrewd cold blooded killer of children. A kidnapper, a sexual predator and a murderer.

I also appreciate and respect that the USA was infested with serial killers in the 1970's. It was the perfect storm.... that was violated by these above mentioned dark forces.

Add to this wholly inadequate police forces that were highly territorial. Police forces often refused to communicate vital communication to other law enforcement entities...

Police forces of that day were completely lacking the sophisticated data banks and DNA testing that makes arrests and convictions much more possible. Plus it was much more rare to have women on the police force, or as prosecuting lawyers - archaic laws and attitudes about sexual crimes against women and so on.

These factors and more led to the reality that our nation was being preyed upon by many, many, many of the Fred Coffey variety. So some of my position is less about underestimating Coffey, and much of it speaks to this perfect storm that reveals that so many police forces failed to be able to contend with these killers preying upon our communities - especially young girls and women.

Could Coffey of done this crime? Of course he could have.

So far I have yet to hear a compelling crime theory that integrate Coffey in terms of his criminal profile and this crime. ...

I say NO WAY those girls got into a car with a guy without some compelling reason(s). So until I hear a way Coffey could have done this first most important act of kidnapping - getting them into the car with him - I am just not inclined to believe he did this crime.

Other things too, like the multiple kidnapping, a few blocks from their home (police today state they were on the streets of Kensington very close to their house). ...

Other things too work against Coffey. His behavior in August of 75 of quitting and running in such a reactive way would be incongruent with his actual behavior if he had done these crimes. His behavior was to stick around for months with a sketch that can be likened to his face associated with the hottest case in history (up to that point in time) in Maryland. That would mean his sketch would be all over the papers, the news for a crime that had the DC area traumatized, and its citizens in white hot rage!

That means a relatively squeamish character was preying on Montgomery county's girls in public, at our malls and then was plastered all over the newspapers, television as a TRM, and stuck around to work some job and live in a rinky dink motel on Rockville Pike.

Any way we cut it, what I know about Coffey indicates that he was not a highly organized, highly premeditated criminal. He was a highly lethal, psychosexual predator. But history proves that the kidnapper and most likely killer of these girls would have most likely needed a safe house, an impeccable disposal system all of which require high levels of organization, skill and planning. Was Coffey capable of this kind of premeditation? Maybe. Did his known crimes display this kind of behavior. As far as I know, no.

Lastly MCPD never could bring him to trial. Its hard to know if they ever even came close. That does not mean he did not do it, but it does mean that he was a guy in circulation circa 1975, working a job with a boss and co-workers and the police had the advantage of live witnesses in 1987 and nothing could be established.

I say all of this and I am open. So far no-one has ever matched his crime profile and this crime in any credible way for me.

You make some very good points and observations about this case and you have some compelling theories and interpretations based on what is known about it.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of concrete evidence to go on, so there can be no Right or Wrong theories at this point.

I have always approached this case from the point of Not having a favorite suspect. Of course, I have a stronger leaning toward some than others for various reasons, but I have always tried to keep an open mind and realize that for every rat you see there are ten more that you don't see. As you point out in your post, there were many predators out there in the 1970's.

As to my own beliefs about this case, I have come to the conclusion that the girls were in fact abducted - as opposed to them running away or falling in a pond, etc.

In one of my posts, I put together a sort of "profile" of how I imagined the perpetrator to be. I was not trying to describe a known person, but rather an unknown suspect. I based that estimate on historical data and just intuition, basically. If we could look at the actual person and compare him to that profile, I know that some of it might be off, but I think that much of it would be a match.

In trying to come up with a scenario or theory there are a lot of possibilities, but starting with the few known facts, We know the following:

- Sheila and Kate left home about 11 AM Tuesday, 25 March 1975 on a 15 minute walk through their residential neighborhood. They had not made definite plans for the trip until a short time before they left.

- While there were a couple of possible routes, the most likely one - the one often traveled with friends and other family members - took them down Jennings, through a wooded path area, out onto McComas, east on Drumm Ave, further east on Faulkner, across the Mall perimeter road and into Montgomery Wards back entrance.

- They were seen in one store by an older woman who knew their family and in another store by a 19 year old male clerk.

- They were seen by their brother, Jay and by a classmate of Sheila near the Mall center.

- They were seen by another classmate of Sheila's and his buddy talking to a man with a tape recorder.

- That was it. The girls vanished. They did not make it home that afternoon or evening and police were called. They still have not solved the case.

Those are the initial facts in the case. Enter the news media and the story continues to grow. Public interest wants to hear more and more. Stories about another boy seeing the girls walking home on Drumm Ave, about an IBM man seeing what he thinks are the girls in a tan Ford, about a ransom call, a Psychic, etc, etc. But all that comes out in the days and weeks that follow.

Well, now the girls didn't really just vanish, obviously. Looking back at the very short list of facts, we see that there is this weird guy with a tape recorder, affectionatly known as Tape Recorder Man or TRM hereabouts. Kind of like the 600 pound gorilla in the room, he cannot be ignored. Unless, of course, you can't find him right away and other more interesting leads pop up.

But consider TRM for a minute. Either it is BIG COINCIDENCE that the girls run into this pervert and then run into a completely different pervert outside, OR maybe the TRM might just have been involved in their disappearance.

As you point out, Montgomery County Police believe that there were Two Tape Recorder Men. After all the falderall of them asking the public for any and all information that they could get on Tape Recorder Man, they just didn't think it was important enough to mention that they have found the guy who claimed to be TRM - but ONLY in PG County - NOT in Montgomery County, Definitely NOT in Montgomery County. Right. As Jimmy Durante used to say, "Everybody wants to get inta da act!"

Whether there was one or two or a whole army of TRM's (none of which were ever seen again as a TRM), You still have the problem of how does he fit in to the scenario. And I think that he DOES fit in.

I agree with you in that TRM was not trying to lure someone in to make a quick grab. I think that he was developing a plan in his mind and using his tape recorder over time to perfect his approach and maybe just to get a girl's voice on tape. The tape recorder was used as a device to help him make initial contact with his potential victim(s). Maybe he was trying to get a certain bit of information, or maybe he just wanted to become a friendly, familiar face to the girls. Perhaps he was part of a much more elaborate scheme as you and a few others have hypothesized.

My own BS Theory as to what happened that day was written in a previous post a few months back, but I will try to re-state it here.

I feel that the perpetrator came to Wheaton Plaza that day in a vehicle after stopping at the McDonald's which was and is across from the westernmost entrance to the mall from University Blvd. The closest place to park to eat was the small back parking lot between the end of Faulkner Road and Montgomery Ward's back entrance. (Note, in 1975, there was no dining-in at McDonald's - you walked up to a window, bought your lunch and went back to your car, either eating in their small parking lot, or driving elsewhere with it.)

Sitting in his vehicle, or maybe sitting on the grass near Faulkner, this man observed children walking to the mall. In particular, he saw Sheila and Katherine. He probably did not talk to them at this time, but may have trailed behind them into the Mall.

He wanted to get close to them for some reason and the tape recorder was his ruse. He watched them go near the Orange Bowl pizza take out restaurant and perhaps knew that they would be back to it, so he took his tape recorder out of his briefcase and waited. Seeing them pass near his spot, he called out to them a rather innocuous question, "Are any of you two involved in sports?"

They took the bait and came closer to speak into his microphone. He appeared to be a nice guy and they exchanged banter. They parted ways, the girls headed toward Mall center, and TRM headed toward Montgomery Wards.

He knew where the girls had come in to the mall and all he had to do was go back to his vehicle, possibly repositioning it closer to the path or crossing. Next came the second "chance" meeting. He could have used any number of ruses to get them to go in his car. And after all, he wasn't a stranger as such, because they had met him earlier.

This probably took place right in the parking lot. But if for any reason he had to abort, such as a police car, a witness in the area, etc, he could simply get in his vehicle and drive away. OR he could make a couple of quick turns and be driving down the residential streets where the girls were walking. Again, he would have to somehow lure the girls near or into his vehicle. On the streets, the risks would be much higher because of all the houses, potential eyewitnesses, and the fact that timing would be much more critical. But it could be done.

Once in the car, he was in control. I won't go further at this point. As you can see, my scenario is rather simple. Basically a crime of opportunity with the TRM bit added as a way of approaching and maybe testing his victims. Of course if the TRM didn't exist, or if he was just a harmless old pervert who had nothing to do with their disappearance, then it makes the scenario all the more simple.

 

[thefirstman]

One truth about human beings - emotions or feelings are contagious.

So if we look at the facts of the case we know that the girls were seen in one moment talking to the TRM. The TRM was someone that others reported conjuring up many negative feelings and reactions when acting out his drama at malls. The "smell" (bizarre presence, strange requests, sexual over and/or undertones) of something untoward emanating from this guy. Somehow, on March 25, 1975 these two girls who come from a loving wholesome family talk to this strange guy in the very brief flash that brings them together at the mall that day. Reports were that most every other girl/woman who had an encounter with TRM, over many weeks, refused his requests to speak into his microphone. Why do the Lyon girls choose to grant him his requests and most everyone else says no?

Even "Jimmy" reported unease and a mocking tone when describing what he witnessed with the girls being interviewed. He made some statement that he asked his friend if he too wanted to go get interviewed. Then, he was suspicious enough to try and over hear the TRM - Lyon girl conversation.

The healthy, loving Lyon family was relevant for the following reason: It means these girls are less love starved - less likely to be driven to look for love in the wrong places.

One theory out there as stated in your post was that the TRM made his way either to the parking lot or down on the streets of Kensington for a second encounter with the girls. Once the perpetrator started courting the girls to do more with him, including getting in the car, what stopped them from running? Unless the invitation was some how very enticing or compelling the odds would be against getting into a car with someone they had just met.

Realistically we have 10 or 15 rats that were/are likely suspects. With decades in our rear view mirrors and so many of the rats bagged and now dead or in prison lets ask the relevant questions. So which of the rats has some history of going to malls at holiday times to perpetrate crimes? Which rat was most likely to hide in plain sight? Which rat was most likely to taunt the public and the police with TRM disguise? Which rat was known to have made girls/women disappear forever? Which rat was more likely to do multiple kidnappings in broad daylight? Which of these rats used tape recorders?

At this point both MCPD and FWPD are actively trying to bring to trial and convict DeBardeben - because he would be a, if not, the top rat behaving this way for years and years. He lured girls and women with badges, sirens and police ruses (the easiest way to scoop any girl/woman off the streets in the shortest period of time with least amount of resistance - especially multiple kidnappings). And then there were the stolen Maryland State police uniforms in Feb of 1975 which does not seem to have been mentioned nor potentially connected to this case prior to now.

Maybe this police uniform theft was completely irrelevant or does not pertain in any way to the Lyon sister case. Maybe it does. If so, imagine how much easier it would be to kidnap young girls off the streets of Kensington while impersonating a cop. It could be done with minimum possibility of eruptions, problems, entanglements, mistakes. Possession of these uniforms could make a psychosexual predator behave with extreme arrogance.

It would seem to me that somehow MCPD did not have a working police imposter theory. This can be said with more confidence in the immediate hours, days weeks and months after the girls were kidnapped. Otherwise to NOT tell the public would be very problematic for the police.

TRM's behavior in the immediate days and weeks BEFORE the Lyon girls go missing was wild, provocative, bizarre. When he did strike (if he was the one to kidnap the girls) he struck on one of the most crowded days during holiday season.

If the perpetrator were a "hungry" sexual predator then there were much easier, far less risky, less obtuse ways to prey on children. In other words with the given facts what would be the meaning of TRM as a crime theory is formulated. Was the TRM behaving in a psychosexual way so as to sadistically taunt the police and the community? The answer to that question would lead toward or away from certain suspects in this case.

The MCPD have reported to me that the kids made it "almost home on the streets of Kensington". It defies logic that the TRM was not extremely familiar with these streets of Kensington. If a guy were going to all the trouble to get out to malls on several different days during a cold winter to perpetrate a very high profile crime, why wouldn't he take the time to drive around behind the plaza for a couple or few hours on one, two, three different occasions.

When I came up with my crime theory I did it this way.

IMO there are only 3 realistic possibilities for these girls climbing into the perpetrator's crime (the most important dimension for the crime to succeed): The girls got into a car with someone they knew fairly well to very well over a long period of time (years), a religious leader (black collar crime, or someone imitating a priest), or a cop.

When looking for a criminal that used police ruses he was right there - all over Wheaton, and the DC area. Then, unknown to me at the time I learned about the Missingtrio case that could be paired with Lyon girls case and these two together could understood as the same crime happening twice. DeBardeleben had two "home" bases - DC area and Fort Worth. He had, by his own repeated admissions, ample motivation to substantially increase his criminal behavior with the death of his mother and his wife leaving him and going into hiding.

Additionally MCPD have indicated to me that they too are attempting to link DeBardeleben's crimes on Feb 5, 1981 of using a police ruse to pull over, kidnap and rape of Lori Cobert in front of the IBM building in Manassas with the Lyon sister crimes. They too have been very focused on this crime as a possible layering of the Lyon girls crimes. They have understood as well the extremely unusual quality and nature of this crime for DeBardeleben. He was known for picking girls up as a police imposter but NOT forcing sexual crimes IN his vehicle and letting the victim go IMMEDIATELY after.

We must ask was Feb 5, 1981 the 6 year anniversary of the crime in which 3 Maryland state trooper uniforms went missing from a dry cleaning business in Baltimore?

 

[Richard]

One truth about human beings - emotions or feelings are contagious.

So if we look at the facts of the case we know that the girls were seen in one moment talking to the TRM. The TRM was someone that others reported conjuring up many negative feelings and reactions when acting out his drama at malls. The "smell" (bizarre presence, strange requests, sexual over and/or undertones) of something untoward emanating from this guy. Somehow, on March 25, 1975 these two girls who come from a loving wholesome family talk to this strange guy in the very brief flash that brings them together at the mall that day. Reports were that most every other girl/woman who had an encounter with TRM, over many weeks, refused his requests to speak into his microphone. Why do the Lyon girls choose to grant him his requests and most everyone else says no?

Even "Jimmy" reported unease and a mocking tone when describing what he witnessed with the girls being interviewed. He made some statement that he asked his friend if he too wanted to go get interviewed. Then, he was suspicious enough to try and over hear the TRM - Lyon girl conversation.

The healthy, loving Lyon family was relevant for the following reason: It means these girls are less love starved - less likely to be driven to look for love in the wrong places. ......

Possession of these uniforms could make a psychosexual predator behave with extreme arrogance.

It would seem to me that somehow MCPD did not have a working police imposter theory. This can be said with more confidence in the immediate hours, days weeks and months after the girls were kidnapped. Otherwise to NOT tell the public would be very problematic for the police.

TRM's behavior in the immediate days and weeks BEFORE the Lyon girls go missing was wild, provocative, bizarre. When he did strike (if he was the one to kidnap the girls) he struck on one of the most crowded days during holiday season.

If the perpetrator were a "hungry" sexual predator then there were much easier, far less risky, less obtuse ways to prey on children. In other words with the given facts what would be the meaning of TRM as a crime theory is formulated. Was the TRM behaving in a psychosexual way so as to sadistically taunt the police and the community? The answer to that question would lead toward or away from certain suspects in this case.

The MCPD have reported to me that the kids made it "almost home on the streets of Kensington". It defies logic that the TRM was not extremely familiar with these streets of Kensington. If a guy were going to all the trouble to get out to malls on several different days during a cold winter to perpetrate a very high profile crime, why wouldn't he take the time to drive around behind the plaza for a couple or few hours on one, two, three different occasions. ...

...

I do not think that the Tape Recorder Man who was seen at various malls before the 25 March 75 disappearance of the Lyon sisters was acting in a sexually provocative manner or in a way meant to taunt police. He was seen by most eyewitnesses as being weird and probably a sexual deviant who was bothering young girls or children, but not one of those persons reported his actions to police. Police had nothing on any TRM and had to ask for help from the community.

You mention the girls and their family upbringing and I agree with you. It is a puzzlement to their parents and to most people as to WHY the girls would willingly get into an abductor's vehicle. It may have come as a surprise to the perpetrator as well. I am sure that he had done this sort of thing before and his offer of a ride had probably been turned down many times before.

You point out three ways that the girls might have gone into a vehicle, but I can think of a number of others as well. For instance, the perpetrator could have asked them to help him catch a kitten that he had just bought for his daughter - "it is under the seats, if one of you could get in back and one in front..." He could have said that there had been an accident and their parents were in the hospital, and that he would take them there. Or he could have come up with any other plausible ruse.

It is interesting that you mention the possibility of a priest or clergy and that you mention a fake cop.

One of the rats on the list of potential suspects was Elwood Leroy Leuschner who had once dressed as a priest and lured a 12 year old girl into a California church where he raped her. He was paroled in 1974 and in 1977 he was arrested and convicted of killing two little boys age 9 in Salisbury, Maryland.

And Michael Pearch, who lived in Kensington, had been a counter intelligence agent in the Army. He spoke to people of having been trained in and participated in kidnappings (in Germany) and using false badges. He also carried a pistol where ever he went and three weeks after the girls disappeared, he began a killing spree at Wheaton Plaza which ended on Georgia Ave where he was shot and killed by police.

I do not know if the MCP ever had a theory which involved a police officer or police imposter in regard to the Lyon case. If they did, they did not mention it to the news media at any time.

There is also a possibility that there were more than one kidnapper involved and that a quick grab in the parking lot or on the residential streets could have occurred. Although, I feel this is much less likely than the lone nut scenarios.

Regarding MCP belief that the girls were taken inside the residential Kensington areas - I recall asking a previous case officer about ten years ago about the Drumm Ave sighting, and he told me that they had come to doubt that report, but he did not go into any further details.

That was the sighting which was reported by a boy who was "Over 15 years old" who supposedly knew Sheila Lyon. He supposedly saw the girls walking home on Drumm near Devon, but did not report it because early news stories had another boy seeing them heading toward Wheaton Plaza at 7:30 PM. When police publically expressed doubt about the "7:30 sighting" and after other facts had been reported, "Over 15" came forward. So police stock in that story rises and falls depending on who the head investigator is. I would give it a 50/50 reliability rating. But regardless, Devon and Drumm is less than half the way home for the girls.

The best place INSIDE Kensington for an abduction would have been at the corner of Drumm and McComas, just before the girls would have entered the wooded area. This place has somewhat fewer houses and is the last place that a vehicle could go to intercept the girls before they reached their own street, Jennings.

I state this because I know where they lived and have studied the map and visited the area. BUT ... If the abductor was trying to run an intercept in Kensington, there would be a very good chance of him NOT finding the girls, because if he did not know exactly where they lived, or their entire route, there was the chance that they might enter any house along the way, or cut through a yard, or visit a friend, etc, etc.

While there seems to have been some preparation and careful planning involved, I also believe that there was a considerable amount of chance and "luck" involved as well.

 

[thefirstman]

For some time I thought of the crime the way that you do. This frame de-emphasizes the extraordinariness of the set and setting of the crime. A crowded mall during the holiday season does not receive a special valence when looking at the meaning of doing these crimes at this time and place.
To some extent it de-emphasizes attributing intentionality of the perpetrator in how the crime unfolded.

In this universe the TRM was a criminal attempting in a more random fashion how he wanted his crime to unfold and therefore was relying more or less on a certain amount and kind of luck.

I moved away from looking at the crime from this angle. Approaching this crime in this way takes away from the investigator many necessary pieces of evidence that would be important differentiators when trying to find a perpetrator. This de-emphasizing crime lens removes the possibility of utilizing the metaphoric DNA of the criminal that would be available through analyzing crime evidence.

If one accepts that the odds indicate that TRM was the sole perpetrator of this crime, then looking at his behavior and evidence as meaningful to who he was has the advantage of helping point toward or away from certain suspects. The idea of showing your face in a crowded shopping plaza on several different occasions and then taking two wholesome girls off the streets of middle class neighborhood in broad daylight helps the investigators ascertain defining characteristics of the crimes.

To substitute the possibilities of very high levels of organization and premeditation with luck defies what we do know about the case. Such a clean and successful crime leans heavily in favor of seeing the perpetrator as someone who was light years ahead of law enforcement and the community at large.

 

[Richard]

There are many cold cases mentioned in this forum topic and in other threads which involve girls who are missing. Many have been posted here because of possibile similarities or connections to the missing Lyon sisters.

Each case has to be considered first on its own merits and evidence, and secondly (although perhaps as importantly) based on how it may tie into other similar cases.

Patterns are what sometimes help in solving a case or cases. Like piecing together a puzzle, it helps to know what the overall picture looks like, but without that you are left with bits and pieces of information, colors, shapes, etc. which might match up.

Each case of disappearance has a number of possibilities, ranging from run aways (the most common, but usually quickly resolved), accidents, getting lost, visiting a friend without telling parents where they were going, a relative abducting them, to stranger abduction. And sometimes a combination of two or more of the above.

Stranger abductions can be perpetrated in many ways, usually rather simply - either by force or by ruse. This case has the character known as Tape Recorder Man connected with it. It involves the abduction of two girls at a busy mall during daylight hours. The girls MIGHT have been seen alive later by the IBM man, but they are still missing 34 years later and no physical trace of them has turned up.

So it is by no means a common missing persons case. It is rather spectacular by many measures. The perpetrator of this crime was a meticulous planner and very careful to leave no evidence behind.

There was a huge media interest and coverage of this case. If someone wanted to taunt police, they could do so simply by calling in tips, ransom requests, and crank calls. There was a lot of that. But none of it was verified as having been taunts from the actual abductor.

Looking for patterns and trying to find "logic" in a criminal's behavior might sometimes lead to a suspect or even an arrest. But you have to realize that their perception of logic might not be the same as that of a normal, rational person. This is often the most difficult part of it all. In order to catch a criminal, except by dumb luck, you have to be able to think like one, and in particular like the specific one you are targeting.

Each piece of evidence has to be considered, evaluated, and worked into a theory. The question of "How would this piece affect the over all picture if it was inacurate, disregarded or if it was false?" has to be asked throughout the investigation. For instance, whether or not the girls were actually seen at the corner of Drumm and Devon really does not alter the outcome and overall picture that much - if it is thought that TRM (or someone else) abducted them outside the mall buildings.

I have tried to find other cases of disapperance or abduction/murder which took place before and after the disappearance of the Lyon sisters. In particular, I have tried to find cases where the victims were girls around the age of Sheila and Kate, where the physical descriptions are similar, and where circumstances might be similar. Certainly not all of these cases were committed by one person. But I feel strongly that some are connected with the Lyon case and that others might be connected to each other, but committed by a different perpetrator.

The problem here is often the fact that crimes were committed in multiple jurisdictions, and in the past there was not as much cooperation and coordination between police departments of different counties and states.

The case of the Lyon sisters is puzzling. Nobody really knows how or why the girls were abducted. It could have been committed in a very elaborate manner or in a rather simple fashion. They could have been targeted specifically days in advance or could have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or perhaps they were targeted at 11:30AM on their way into Wheaton Plaza and abducted by 2:30 PM on their way out of the mall.

 

[thefirstman]

The thing that I appreciate the most about your posts and your process is your clarity and your ability to keep the conversation grounded.

In your latest post you brought us back to square 1. I think that is smart because in all reality those of us not privy to the information and data that the police have are at square 1.

In light of acknowledging this reality I think it is highly constructive and useful to superimpose known predators of that era that may have been in the area to see if their psycho-sexual behavior fits a pattern.

Sometimes it may lead to details the police are currently unaware of, overlooked, or did not consider.

 

[Richard]

The thing that I appreciate the most about your posts and your process is your clarity and your ability to keep the conversation grounded.

In your latest post you brought us back to square 1. I think that is smart because in all reality those of us not privy to the information and data that the police have are at square 1.

In light of acknowledging this reality I think it is highly constructive and useful to superimpose known predators of that era that may have been in the area to see if their psycho-sexual behavior fits a pattern.

Sometimes it may lead to details the police are currently unaware of, overlooked, or did not consider.

Thank you for your kind words and for your keen interest in this case.

I agree with you 100 per cent regarding analyzation of known predators and consideration how they might possibly fit into the Lyon case. As you point out, the police have much more information - particularly about all the various predators and perverts that they have interviewed over the years - and so much of it cannot legally be released to the public. But there are many predators now known to the public who could and should be considered as possible suspects in this case and others like it.

In some of my past postings I have stated what I know about some of these individuals, and you have done a great job of bringing DeBardeleben to light. Police will do what they want to with the information that comes to them, perhaps some day they will be successful in solving this case.

I stress that one has to be very careful in proposing or suggesting anyone as a potential suspect, for legal reasons. The persons whom I have named in these threads are bonified criminals, convicted and jailed for other crimes or even killed in the act of committing crimes. I don't think any of them will be sueing me any time soon.

There are a few others who have never been convicted of capital crimes, or who got off on technicalities, some of whom were questioned by police in regard to the Lyon case, but I have refrained from naming them in my posts. There may well be others who have never been caught - such as this character in California who has been abducting, raping, and murdering since at least 1971. Police will have quite a job trying to figure out where he has been and who his victims were over the past 38 years.

I do not consider the Lyon case to be at square one. There has been a tremendous amount of thought, effort, and feeling put into it by many people over the years. That energy has kept the case alive and active, while many other cases have been filed away and forgotten by all but close family or friends.

Answers will come, but first the questions have to be asked. And the right questions have to be asked by the right person of the right person at the right time.

 

[Motherof5]

Just thinking of the girls and the Lyon family as yet another Christmas goes by without answers.Prayers for the Lyon family.

 

[cat123]

I am new to this website. I was a friend of Sheila's. I was looking through a photo album and found some pictures of a group of friends, including Sheila on the Halloween before she disappeared. I often think of her and her sister Kate. I googled her and found this website. I am so glad that they have not been forgotten.

I lived on the other side of Plyers Mill Rd. and up a couple of blocks from her. All of the kids in the area walked to Wheaton Plaza using the back way. We got to the field by different routes depending on whose house we started from. We used to also walk toward Connecticut Ave. to go to the Baskin Robbins ice cream place. We would get ice cream cones and walk home eating them. It was a wonderful place to grow up. Someone else posted about the sledding on "suicide hill". I remember doing that as well. We called it "suicide hill" because it ended right on Homewood and then into a creek. There were also a lot of trees.

I was suppose to go with Sheila to Wheaton Plaza the day she disappeared. I was grounded though and not allowed to go. I still wonder if they would still be here if only I had not gotten grounded.

My family moved in June. When we moved back to the area about 18 months later it was difficult to find out anything. I am so glad I found this website.

 

[Mischa]

You make some very good points and observations about this case and you have some compelling theories and interpretations based on what is known about it.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of concrete evidence to go on, so there can be no Right or Wrong theories at this point.

I have always approached this case from the point of Not having a favorite suspect. Of course, I have a stronger leaning toward some than others for various reasons, but I have always tried to keep an open mind and realize that for every rat you see there are ten more that you don't see. As you point out in your post, there were many predators out there in the 1970's.

As to my own beliefs about this case, I have come to the conclusion that the girls were in fact abducted - as opposed to them running away or falling in a pond, etc.

In one of my posts, I put together a sort of "profile" of how I imagined the perpetrator to be. I was not trying to describe a known person, but rather an unknown suspect. I based that estimate on historical data and just intuition, basically. If we could look at the actual person and compare him to that profile, I know that some of it might be off, but I think that much of it would be a match.

In trying to come up with a scenario or theory there are a lot of possibilities, but starting with the few known facts, We know the following:

- Sheila and Kate left home about 11 AM Tuesday, 25 March 1975 on a 15 minute walk through their residential neighborhood. They had not made definite plans for the trip until a short time before they left.

- While there were a couple of possible routes, the most likely one - the one often traveled with friends and other family members - took them down Jennings, through a wooded path area, out onto McComas, east on Drumm Ave, further east on Faulkner, across the Mall perimeter road and into Montgomery Wards back entrance.

- They were seen in one store by an older woman who knew their family and in another store by a 19 year old male clerk.

- They were seen by their brother, Jay and by a classmate of Sheila near the Mall center.

- They were seen by another classmate of Sheila's and his buddy talking to a man with a tape recorder.

- That was it. The girls vanished. They did not make it home that afternoon or evening and police were called. They still have not solved the case.

Those are the initial facts in the case. Enter the news media and the story continues to grow. Public interest wants to hear more and more. Stories about another boy seeing the girls walking home on Drumm Ave, about an IBM man seeing what he thinks are the girls in a tan Ford, about a ransom call, a Psychic, etc, etc. But all that comes out in the days and weeks that follow.

Well, now the girls didn't really just vanish, obviously. Looking back at the very short list of facts, we see that there is this weird guy with a tape recorder, affectionatly known as Tape Recorder Man or TRM hereabouts. Kind of like the 600 pound gorilla in the room, he cannot be ignored. Unless, of course, you can't find him right away and other more interesting leads pop up.

But consider TRM for a minute. Either it is BIG COINCIDENCE that the girls run into this pervert and then run into a completely different pervert outside, OR maybe the TRM might just have been involved in their disappearance.

As you point out, Montgomery County Police believe that there were Two Tape Recorder Men. After all the falderall of them asking the public for any and all information that they could get on Tape Recorder Man, they just didn't think it was important enough to mention that they have found the guy who claimed to be TRM - but ONLY in PG County - NOT in Montgomery County, Definitely NOT in Montgomery County. Right. As Jimmy Durante used to say, "Everybody wants to get inta da act!"

Whether there was one or two or a whole army of TRM's (none of which were ever seen again as a TRM), You still have the problem of how does he fit in to the scenario. And I think that he DOES fit in.

I agree with you in that TRM was not trying to lure someone in to make a quick grab. I think that he was developing a plan in his mind and using his tape recorder over time to perfect his approach and maybe just to get a girl's voice on tape. The tape recorder was used as a device to help him make initial contact with his potential victim(s). Maybe he was trying to get a certain bit of information, or maybe he just wanted to become a friendly, familiar face to the girls. Perhaps he was part of a much more elaborate scheme as you and a few others have hypothesized.

My own BS Theory as to what happened that day was written in a previous post a few months back, but I will try to re-state it here.

I feel that the perpetrator came to Wheaton Plaza that day in a vehicle after stopping at the McDonald's which was and is across from the westernmost entrance to the mall from University Blvd. The closest place to park to eat was the small back parking lot between the end of Faulkner Road and Montgomery Ward's back entrance. (Note, in 1975, there was no dining-in at McDonald's - you walked up to a window, bought your lunch and went back to your car, either eating in their small parking lot, or driving elsewhere with it.)

Sitting in his vehicle, or maybe sitting on the grass near Faulkner, this man observed children walking to the mall. In particular, he saw Sheila and Katherine. He probably did not talk to them at this time, but may have trailed behind them into the Mall.

He wanted to get close to them for some reason and the tape recorder was his ruse. He watched them go near the Orange Bowl pizza take out restaurant and perhaps knew that they would be back to it, so he took his tape recorder out of his briefcase and waited. Seeing them pass near his spot, he called out to them a rather innocuous question, "Are any of you two involved in sports?"

They took the bait and came closer to speak into his microphone. He appeared to be a nice guy and they exchanged banter. They parted ways, the girls headed toward Mall center, and TRM headed toward Montgomery Wards.

He knew where the girls had come in to the mall and all he had to do was go back to his vehicle, possibly repositioning it closer to the path or crossing. Next came the second "chance" meeting. He could have used any number of ruses to get them to go in his car. And after all, he wasn't a stranger as such, because they had met him earlier.

This probably took place right in the parking lot. But if for any reason he had to abort, such as a police car, a witness in the area, etc, he could simply get in his vehicle and drive away. OR he could make a couple of quick turns and be driving down the residential streets where the girls were walking. Again, he would have to somehow lure the girls near or into his vehicle. On the streets, the risks would be much higher because of all the houses, potential eyewitnesses, and the fact that timing would be much more critical. But it could be done.

Once in the car, he was in control. I won't go further at this point. As you can see, my scenario is rather simple. Basically a crime of opportunity with the TRM bit added as a way of approaching and maybe testing his victims. Of course if the TRM didn't exist, or if he was just a harmless old pervert who had nothing to do with their disappearance, then it makes the scenario all the more simple.

[FONT=&quot]Reading[/FONT][FONT=&quot] through all this, an -very disturbing - idea came to me.
Do you think it is possible that TRM waited this day in the mall not only for an opportunity or two blonde girls, but especially for Kate and Sheila?

The ruse he used was the very right bait for daughters of a radio-journalist.
The sisters must have seen their father working with a tape recorder dozens of times, perhaps they were even allowed to accompany him now and then, when he made interviews and probably it wasn't the first time they were interviewed themselves. When their father's colleagues needed some interview-bites with kids, it would have been naturally for them to remember the Lyon-Kids.

That means: TRM knew they would familiar and comfortable with the situation when he pretended to interview them. (Perhaps he even told them that he knew their father after he asked their names.)

And I don't think that it is a contradiction that he waited in a public place for them.
Wheaton Plaza was the local hangout for kids and youth then. It was an easy guess that on at least one of the Easter holidays the Lyon sisters would come down there. And as long as he had not taken out his tape-recorder he was a customer like all the other people down there.[/FONT]

 

[Richard]

[FONT=&quot]Reading[/FONT][FONT=&quot] through all this, an -very disturbing - idea came to me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do you think it is possible that TRM waited this day in the mall not only for an opportunity or two blonde girls, but especially for Kate and Sheila?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The ruse he used was the very right bait for daughters of a radio-journalist.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The sisters must have seen their father working with a tape recorder dozens of times, perhaps they were even allowed to accompany him now and then, when he made interviews and probably it wasn't the first time they were interviewed themselves. When their father's colleagues needed some interview-bites with kids, it would have been naturally for them to remember the Lyon-Kids.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That means: TRM knew they would familiar and comfortable with the situation when he pretended to interview them. (Perhaps he even told them that he knew their father after he asked their names.)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I don't think that it is a contradiction that he waited in a public place for them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wheaton Plaza was the local hangout for kids and youth then. It was an easy guess that on at least one of the Easter holidays the Lyon sisters would come down there. And as long as he had not taken out his tape-recorder he was a customer like all the other people down there.[/FONT]

What you suggest is certainly possible. However, it would be rather risky and time consuming for someone to wait around a shopping mall on the off chance that these two specific girls were going to show up that day. The longer he sat around, the more chance someone would remember him.

Police interviewed many friends and acquaintances of the Lyon family and the sketch of the TRM was shown on TV and in newspapers - so there was an ample chance for identification of possible suspects. None were ever developed.

The use of the tape recorder seems to have been tried on a number of different occasions at Wheaton Plaza and at other shopping centers prior to the 25th of March 1975, when TRM allegedly interviewed the Lyon sisters.

It is, however, possible.

 

[Richard]

This week marks the 35th anniversary of the disappearance of Sheila and Katherine Lyon. Keep an eye out for possible press articles and TV stories.

 

[BurntByTheSun]

I have been on the lookout for articles for the last few weeks -- I have yet to see anything in The Washington Post or Baltimore Sun. It would be wonderful to see the Washington City Paper, Washingtonian Magazine or even the Baltimore City Paper do some sort of in-depth article on the case.

So far, only a mention in the "Washington Examiner", February 1, 2010 edition . .. Which someone already posted.

and a short video on Fox Channel 5, March 12, 2010--Sisters Still Missing 35 Years Later

 

[darmela]

Link of My Fox DC short article on Lyon sisters:

www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/sisters-still-missing-35-years-later-031210

 

[darmela]

I have always been haunted by this case as I lived one county over from Montgomery County growing up. Also, I was in a local band that was interviewed once in the late 80s on John Lyon's radio show. It wasn't until later on that I made the connection between him and his lost daughters. I remember him being such a nice man. You would never know the pain that was weighing on his heart in talking to him. The bottom line is that someone knows something. There was just a break in the case of 5 teenage boys that disappeared in NJ in 1978 because of a tip someone had called in. Two men were recently arrested. Yes, it can happen that many years later someone comes forward. Hopefully any recent publicity of the Lyon sisters may just move someone to share what they know.

 

[Jeb]

You made some good speculations about the girls abduction.
I believe it was just a coincidence that TRM ended up with a DJ's daughters.

I'd like to make a point about ther tape recorder. When I saw TRM at Wheaton Plaza 28Feb75, he had the recorder attached to his briefcase in plain view. The briefcase lid was either closed or had been removed.

 

[Fronkensteen]

Hello Richard, hope all is well with you. Just logged on to pay my respects to you especially and to all who have contributed to this forum over the years, and to the Lyon girls on this sad 35th anniversary of their disappearance.

 

[Richard]

Hello Richard, hope all is well with you. Just logged on to pay my respects to you especially and to all who have contributed to this forum over the years, and to the Lyon girls on this sad 35th anniversary of their disappearance.

Thanks for posting. It is good to hear from you again.

This morning marks exactly 35 years since Sheila and Kate were getting ready to go on their fateful trip to Wheaton Plaza Shopping Center.

That day was the second day of Spring Break for school children and it was warm and sunny after a rainy previous day.