SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

[Sleuth5]

Here's my offering for a peaceful mood in here today.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8"]WAR - WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS - YouTube[/ame]

 

[kscornfed]

Oh thank you for your post!! As an elder, I appreciate it. But there is a aspect to being older that may get lost. We do learn that most things are not strickly black and white, that no one is a saint and there is often more to the story than we know. I think it's that perspective that allows people to navigate the "gray" areas without "hating." I am talking in generalities here. For me, TA was a victim in this crime..no question. But he was not a victim during the course of the relationship. He was an active particpant and they both used each other. That does not make him cupable in his death and the responsiblity for that falls squarely on JA. And we have to rember that many DP cases do not get the DP. She was convicted of first degree murder.

couldn't agree more! TA did NOT deserve what happened to him. but he was not perfect and he made a huge mistake----staying in touch with her after she moved back to CA. his naivete and inexperience cost him his life. i think he thought he WAS rid of her when she moved----he made no effort to see her. but a little phone sex? sure, why not. he just had no idea how sick she was, and despite his friends' warnings, he didn't cut it off. if he HAD done that, i think he'd still be dead, but these things couldn't have been held against him in court. that's part of what makes this so unbearably sad to me----he wasn't afraid ENOUGH of her.

i just wish one of the other jurors would come out and talk. for all we know, some of them have contacted the alexander family and privately expressed to them how they feel. i sincerely hope that has happened. we know the one alternate posted on the state page, expressing her feelings.

so while i wish this particular juror would STFU, i know his wasn't the only viewpoint in that jury room. he's just the only one who's saying anything so far, and he keeps talking and making it worse.

 

[Venom]

Exactly! Good point! They were young women! Patricia Krenwinkel was sentenced to death...but CA banned it later. Susan Atkins cut a deal to avoid DP.

Oops, I thought they all were sentenced to death.

 

[kscornfed]

LOL Yes, better safe than sorry. There's still quite a road to the end yet, and you don't want to be locked out when we get there. Remember -- when you need to vent, hit the Chat Room.

which is where, BTW? i'd love to check it out but it sounds like a secret place maybe not everyone can go??

 

[sayd]

The jury did no such thing. One juror and only one juror of 12 stumbled out of the jury room, rushed home, turned on the TV, and to his dismay realized he was not going to be greeted as a civic hero. Instead, all the heads on TV were shaking in unison, chanting, "the jury failed, they didn't finish the job of putting this savage killer to death,"

Eleven other jurors saw and heard the same response. Eight jurors who I'm sure felt passionately that she deserved death have not spoken out to counter what 18 is saying, nor to talk about the process. I suspect that is in part because they are exhausted, heart broken for the Alexanders, and very upset that the jury hung.

Three jurors who voted for life have not spoken out either. They know they are on the "wrong" side of public opinion, but apparently feel no need to rush to the cameras to explain their reasons. Whatever they are. Perhaps 3 entirely individual and differing reasons, none off them matching 18's. I suspect that they are exhausted, conflicted, heartbroken for the Alexanders, and very upset the jury hung.

THEY are the jury, and well deserving of appreciation and gratitude. And then there' s 18, who feels the need to explain to us that it's not his fault, don'cha know, who insists on being front and center, who keeps talking and talking even though clearly he is digging his own hole deeper and deeper, and who shows no recognition that people are appalled by what he's saying, as he is very satisfied with himself and the pearls of wisdom he's granting us,.

Yes? No wonder why hearing him hits doubly hard.

Great post....

 

[Sleuth5]

Love the new hat Mrs G!!

:seeya:

Hey, I like yours too, Dana!

 

[rose222]

The jury did no such thing. One juror and only one juror of 12 stumbled out of the jury room, rushed home, turned on the TV, and to his dismay realized he was not going to be greeted as a civic hero. Instead, all the heads on TV were shaking in unison, chanting, "the jury failed, they didn't finish the job of putting this savage killer to death,"

Eleven other jurors saw and heard the same response. Eight jurors who I'm sure felt passionately that she deserved death have not spoken out to counter what 18 is saying, nor to talk about the process. I suspect that is in part because they are exhausted, heart broken for the Alexanders, and very upset that the jury hung.

Three jurors who voted for life have not spoken out either. They know they are on the "wrong" side of public opinion, but apparently feel no need to rush to the cameras to explain their reasons. Whatever they are. Perhaps 3 entirely individual and differing reasons, none off them matching 18's. I suspect that they are exhausted, conflicted, heartbroken for the Alexanders, and very upset the jury hung.

THEY are the jury, and well deserving of appreciation and gratitude. And then there' s 18, who feels the need to explain to us that it's not his fault, don'cha know, who insists on being front and center, who keeps talking and talking even though clearly he is digging his own hole deeper and deeper, and who shows no recognition that people are appalled by what he's saying, as he is very satisfied with himself and the pearls of wisdom he's granting us,.

Yes? No wonder why hearing him hits doubly hard.

True. I hope other jurors (regardless of life/death vote) come out and say a kind word on behalf of Travis and his family. That's all I want. Is that asking for too much?

 

[kaki]

which is where, BTW? i'd love to check it out but it sounds like a secret place maybe not everyone can go??

Or can you go with a mobile device? Im on an ipad..
I havent been there since the CA verdict travesty..lol.

 

[Sleuth5]

The island is calling you...

Love your new look, KP.

 

[gcharlie]

I have a question first and then some comments about the hung jury.

Does anyone have a link or detailed info about how a retrial of the penalty phase would proceed? I'm trying to get a grip on how the new jury is brought up to speed with the fact of the case from the guilt and aggravation phases and what leeway the opposing sides have in presenting any new material in the penalty phase. Such as, can the defense change their list of mitigating factors?

As for the hung jury, I do hope that the jury meets for interviews, both as a group and as individuals. We've only heard from the foreman and juror number 8 so far, and juror number 8 was very respectful of the ongoing process when he made his remarks. Any interviews they might give will provide the prosecution with a bounty of information for strategy.

All it takes to hang a jury is one person. From what the foreman said, he believes that CKJA was emotionally and verbally abused. Juan's stalking evidence did not resonate strongly enough with at least one juror. We've heard a lot more than the jury has about the stalking and this would appear to need more emphasis in a retrial. Maybe Samantha includes the family knowledge of tire slashing and stalking in her VIS...

Many people are upset by comments from the foreman, but he is human and showed his own personal biases. This is what can happen with our jury system which relies on everyday people to mete out justice.

What I glean is that he is an age contemporary of Samuels and LaViolette and a lot of what he said shows that he did connect with them and rely on their testimony. Like RS and ALV, he made a statement explaining that her lying was understandable given the situation; this predisposition seems to have allowed him to be very selective in how he interpreted the evidence presented.

Where he really confuses me is his statement “There was a Jodi Arias before June 4 of 2008 and a Jodi Arias after June 4 of 2008. Jodi Arias before that time seemed like an absolutely normal young woman; going through relationships, ups and downs, there was no history of any kind of violence, there was no history of any unusual problems with relationships, they were pretty typical.. He's definitely got some personal biases here, where he was selective in terms of what he used to arrive at that conclusion. A young woman of her intelligence level does not drop out of high school and move in with her boyfriend. The testimony presented of her relationships were also not normal. By her own account, she and Bobby Juarez lived in substandard conditions. Their relationship was tumultuous. Likewise, he did not find anything unusual about her relationship with Matt McCartney and how she drove for hours to confront Bianca. I find it interesting that he considers a relationship with Darryl Brewer "normal"; if he has daughters or granddaughters, I'm wondering how comfortable he would feel about one of them moving in with a divorced man 20 years her senior when she was only 22 years old. Even Darryl said that she started to change in the spring of 2007 (prior to meeting Travis) when she got involved with PPL and the Mormon church.

His sympathies are evident in his use of the word "girl" to describe her. She was 27 at the time of the murder and 32 at the time of trial; consciously or subconsciously, he is not holding her to adult standards, neither at the commission of the crime nor at the time of trial and her testimony.

I know that I personally would have had a very difficult time dealing with this person as foreman, based on what he said in his interview. He may have conducted himself differently in the jury room, but I somehow doubt that and I would have been very uncomfortable with his biases. After having already gone through two deliberations with this person as foreman, this jury already had a feel for how much wiggle room there was in deliberating. I'm actually surprised that they tried for as long as they did.

 

[SheltieMom1]

I hope other jurors come forward and have their say; surely the stuff coming out of Mr. Jury Foreman's mouth can't be the representing voice of them all. Hearing him say that Travis abused Jodi verbally and mentally, and that Jodi had a "normal life" with "normal relationships" up until June 4th, is nauseating.

I'm impatiently waiting for this to happen. I hope that the hours spent waiting in that jury room because JSS was taking care of business or JA was working up to a migraine or Nurmi was making yet another motion for mistrial did not result in bonds and loyalty among those individuals so strong and impenetrable that nobody on that jury is willing to speak out in contradiction to the foreperson. lease:

 

[DebinGA]

I now think it's very unlikely, if not impossible, that another jury would unanimously sentence JA to death. I hope after the hoopla subsides that the MC DA opts to forego a retrial and lets JSS sentence JA to LWOP, which I feel sure she will do. JA needs to begin spending the rest of her miserable life in obscurity at Perryville Prison asap imo.

 

[rose222]

If the foreman thinks he can get some *love* from JA after his speech on her behalf then he can think again. The woman can only use and throw people. When she hears what he had to say she's going to think 'And you still voted for murder one you stu@id old man!'

 

[elementary]

The jury did no such thing. One juror and only one juror of 12 stumbled out of the jury room, rushed home, turned on the TV, and to his dismay realized he was not going to be greeted as a civic hero. Instead, all the heads on TV were shaking in unison, chanting, "the jury failed, they didn't finish the job of putting this savage killer to death,"

Eleven other jurors saw and heard the same response. Eight jurors who I'm sure felt passionately that she deserved death have not spoken out to counter what 18 is saying, nor to talk about the process. I suspect that is in part because they are exhausted, heart broken for the Alexanders, and very upset that the jury hung.

Three jurors who voted for life have not spoken out either. They know they are on the "wrong" side of public opinion, but apparently feel no need to rush to the cameras to explain their reasons. Whatever they are. Perhaps 3 entirely individual and differing reasons, none off them matching 18's. I suspect that they are exhausted, conflicted, heartbroken for the Alexanders, and very upset the jury hung.

THEY are the jury, and well deserving of appreciation and gratitude. And then there' s 18, who feels the need to explain to us that it's not his fault, don'cha know, who insists on being front and center, who keeps talking and talking even though clearly he is digging his own hole deeper and deeper, and who shows no recognition that people are appalled by what he's saying, as he is very satisfied with himself and the pearls of wisdom he's granting us,.

Yes? No wonder why hearing him hits doubly hard.

You missed my point. According to this juror, they were shocked that there was a mistrial, that they had no idea. So that is my question- how did that happen?

 

[Bravo]

I just don't want to see a war of words between Jurors in the press. I wish the Foreman had taken some time before going public. Perhaps his words would have been respectful of Travis and the Alexander's. The Alexander's and Friends have endured enough pain. Anything negative about Travis is only going to cause more. For me all that matters is they/we got the first 2 verdicts. If the Alexander's want to see this thru I support them. If they choose not to in the days to come I support that too. As far as I'm concerned the Jury has spoken. IMO

 

[jellybeanz]

This is an amazing cover medley of Daft Punks music by a band called Pigeon.

Enjoy websleuthers.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkxd3eimW2o&list=FL2TcUS2eA9fjjTcXEXA5qXg&index=4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkxd3eimW2o&list=FL2TcUS2eA9fjjTcXEXA5qXg&index=4[/ame]

RIP Travis

 

[DebinGA]

You missed my point. According to this juror, they were shocked that there was a mistrial, that they had no idea. So that is my question- how did that happen?

We have only Mr. Foreman's word that "they" were shocked at the mistrial. I can believe that he was shocked, as he and reality don't seem to have a close relationship.

 

[RadarLuv]

which is where, BTW? i'd love to check it out but it sounds like a secret place maybe not everyone can go??

I have tried to get on a dozen time.

 

[Emmi]

I hope other jurors come forward and have their say; surely the stuff coming out of Mr. Jury Foreman's mouth can't be the representing voice of them all. Hearing him say that Travis abused Jodi verbally and mentally, and that Jodi had a "normal life" with "normal relationships" up until June 4th, is nauseating.

I don't find it the least bit nauseating. His opinions were formed based on testimony and evidence heard in the courtroom, not on the stories, rumours and speculations heard on HLN and social media discussion boards. That's the way a justice system is supposed to work.

Perhaps it's time for America to stop televising trials.

 

[Sleuth5]

which is where, BTW? i'd love to check it out but it sounds like a secret place maybe not everyone can go??

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68121"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Just follow that link. The instructions are there. I recommend downloading MiRC, but if you want to use Java that's fine. Try it for sure if the Java doesn't work for you.