SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

[ElleElle]

True, but he was a charmer just like Jodi.

"Biographer Ann Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia described him as "a sadistic sociopath who took pleasure from another human's pain and the control he had over his victims, to the point of death, and even after."

No, Bundy received Death penalty in both Florida cases. First trial I watched that was televised.

 

[fran]

:wave:

Move along past the prosecutor, JM.

Agree to disagree and move on.

TIA
fran

 

[OEJ]

I am sure it depends on the make up of each family, but it would "destroy" some of my family members if they never knew who murdered me or they knew and that person was free on the streets.
I'm not downplaying what the Alexanders have been through - HORRIFIC! - just saying that if I am dead, I have no doubt certain family members would hound the PD and DA until the perp was caught and prosecuted! They would have extra squads out night and day just to get these crazy people off their backs. LOL.

This is the only sensible thing to do. Murderers should never walk free if there is anything we can do about it.

 

[Karmady]

I haven't posted that before, although someone else may have... apparently I'm not the only one thinking that way! I believe you when you say many you know don't like him. I have seen other posters who don't like him also. That's ok.
I do like him.
He gets the job done. If my grandmother (whom I ADORE) had to be a witness in a trial I would rather Juan cross examine her than Nurmi. She would tell the truth and therefore, Juan's style wouldn't intimidate her. If Nurmi spoke to my grandma like he did Deanna, she would have to bail me out of jail after court ended. THAT was disgusting!

Yeah, could have been someone else. I just remember the words because at first I didn't get it, then it made me laugh

I will say this, though. I'm a big truth teller -- to a fault, in fact. And in this case Juan's questions in a lot of instances were not designed to elicit the truth, imo. I've said before, if he had spoken to me like he spoke to some of those witnesses I think I would have taken a contempt charge rather than answer him. I want to be clear, too, that my pov is one-sided in the context of my posts only. In a lot of particulars I'd be equally critical of the defense, albeit mostly for different reasons. Truth is, though, that the critique of the defense and everything associated with it is more than amply covered by other posters lol, so I rarely post about it. I think that makes it seem like I'm "pro-Jodi" when actually I'm just "pro-trial-watching."

Peace :seeya:

 

[Curious Me]

ITA~ WS is not a "majority rules on all opnions" is it? Different strokes for different folks. and BTW~ JW made me cringe everytime she opened her mouth, Nurmi made me fall asleep.

Did you catch the Vintage Nancy Grace video posted on here last night?
Her style worked for her in the courtroom back in the day.
I guess you could say sarcasm cloaked in a heavy southern drawl.

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

Yes, I've seen you post that before, I think. Like I said, I understand that my pov is contrary to what most people here believe. But it is definitely what a lot of people who are not here think. Including a lot of the locals. I'm not lying when I tell you that I don't know one single person in my personal or professional life that has said that they like Juan's style and many have said (totally independent from any comment by me) that he has done his case more harm then good considering the mountain of evidence against her. If they're thinking that, and I'm thinking that, and people's moms are thinking that, and the foreman of the jury apparently thought that, then maybe it's worth considering that there might be something to it, imo.

I respect your opinion. Juanderful can be an acquired taste.

Are any of the attorneys you know who dislike his style Death Penalty Qualified Prosecutors?

That isn't snarky! I'm really curious about the attorneys who take such issue with his style.

My personal opinion is that if I needed someone to prosecute a crime, I don't want a warm fuzzy prosecutor everyone is comfortable with and loves to pieces. I don't want one who tampers his style in order to make people comfortable.

I want one who is going to come at the murderer and all who protect the murder with the speed and force of a freight train.


EDITING TO ADD DON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION, lol. I just saw the mod post above ^^^

 

[Jane Jetson]

hi! :seeya:

But, I guess the mitigating factors are in place, but now i'm beginning to wonder if "Sympathy for the Devil" is in play here. :scared:

Yes, I remember Pamela Smart, the movie "To Die For", with Nicole Kidman was the basis for that one.

Yes, based on what he has said, Mr. F has no idea what kind of person he was dealing with here. I guess Dr. D's testimony didn't "grab" him. Perhaps he can look up "psychopath" in the near future, and discover that they can even look like normal, everyday people.

One thing I think is obviously in play here is a common psychological belief that "what is beautiful is good." Now, a lot of us here don't think CMJA is a real looker, but I'm sure a lot of guys would find her attractive. Here's WIBIG defined:

"What is Beautiful is Good Stereotype..."

"With the vast amount of information available, the human mind has developed different strategies to operate more efficiently. Among the various shortcuts, or heuristics, used to make interpersonal judgments is the “what is beautiful is good stereotype” and the “halo effect.” These mental shortcuts occur automatically and provide important information, as Asch (1946) stated “we look at a person and immediately a certain impression of his character forms itself in us” (p. 258). The information gathered from initial contact becomes a working foundation for future characteristics and attitudes. (snip)

"What is Beautiful is Good Defined"

"This effect relies on the assumption that physically attractive people are superior to others on many other traits, such as intelligence and overall personality (Eagly et al., 1991; Feingold, 1992; Jackson et al., 1995). [snip]]

Example of research

There is a lot of research on this principle, but here's a representative study:

"Dion, Berscheid & Walster (1972)-What is Beautiful is Good"

"In this study participants were asked to rate photographs of three individuals, ranging from low, medium, to high attractiveness. The physical attractiveness scale was determined by an earlier survey of a hundred students. The participants were to provide ratings for several different categories including personality traits, overall happiness, and career success. The ratings were then averaged. The results show that attractiveness is positively linked to more socially desirable personalities (Dion, Berscheid & Walster, 1972). The findings in Dion, Berscheid & Walster study (1972), also confirmed that “attractive men and women were expected to attain more prestigious occupations” (p. 288). [snip] Overall, the experiment concludes that 'not only are physically attractive persons assumed to possess more socially desirable personalities than those of lesser attractiveness, but it is presumed that their lives will be happier and more successful' (p. 289).

"The results confirm people tend to associate beauty with other positive qualities. [snip] Beauty was the central trait, which influenced other characteristics." [snip]

http://www.psychwiki.com/wiki/What_is_Beautiful_is_Good_Stereotype_and_the_Halo_Effect

When you're not aware of this principle, of what basically amounts, in my opinion, to a weakness in humans, then it can be harder to fight or protect against, and you may fall prey - literally! - to the "beautiful" person who is just waiting to take advantage of you. Well, not you personally, but people in general.

 

[Dana]

:wave:

Move along past the prosecutor, JM.

Agree to disagree and move on.

TIA
fran

:tyou:

 

[PrincessSezMe]

To believe that they didn't know Jodi Arias was the case they were being seated for, you have to believe the attorneys didn't ask if they knew the defendant. That's usually the very first question they ask. Since it was all over the news here in NC, I can't believe one person in Arizona didn't know who she was, what she did, and didn't know her face. I disagree with the assessment they were to follow through on "their" convictions. They were to weigh the mitigating factors against the aggravating factors, per the rules of the court. Her plans to implement recycling, teach Spanish, donate hair, etc don't outweigh the multiple stab wounds, the slashed throat, and the bullet through the head. It just doesn't wash......to use the foreman's own words!

The only thing that didn't wash in this case was the damn camera! And thank God for that, or she may never have been caught! I was SO angry when he said that. :furious:

 

[The Farm]

I respect your opinion. Juanderful can be an acquired taste.

Are any of the attorneys you know who dislike his style Death Penalty Qualified Prosecutors?

That isn't snarky! I'm really curious about the attorneys who take such issue with his style.

My personal opinion is that if I needed someone to prosecute a crime, I don't want a warm fuzzy prosecutor everyone is comfortable with and loves to pieces. I don't want one who tampers his style in order to make people comfortable.

I want one who is going to come at the murderer and all who protect the murder with the speed and force of a freight train.

I agree, I like Juan and his style/approach. To each her/his own I guess.

 

[LambChop]

We are opening the possibility for different opinions. We cannot establish that the sex was consensual or not. The question posed in the post was hypothetical. It is the murderer's use of sexuality to seduce which is at question here.

It's a possibility she finally had to have sex with him to get him into the shower if that was where she originally wanted to kill him. A couple of things happened that morning that stopped that from happening. One of the roommates did not leave until 11:30am. He came back around 3 and stayed until 4pm with his girlfriend. Jodi had a couple of interruptions making it difficult to possibly get Travis into the shower when someone was not home. If they had sex a couple of times that day it was because her goal was to get Travis in the shower while the house was empty and she was not about to leave until that happened.

I often wondered if Travis thought she left for good because the front door was locked. Her rental car was not parked in the front but on a side street. She could have gone out through the garage so she would not have been seen carrying bags. If Jodi did leave he locked the door behind her and thought he was safe to take a shower. Why would the front door be locked when roommates said he never locked it? I don't see her taking a chance on leaving by way of the front door and being seen carrying out trash bags. We know she carried out her bloodied clothes, shoes, gun, etc. in something.

 

[ElleElle]

ITA~ And, we who have followed trial since Day 1 know this.
Juan won't be played by shady people and knows the type from his experience.
Unfortunately, some people just got HLN (mom) to watch and the TH's don't help. moo

This is the same Foreman who kept saying he took "emotion" out of it and only focused on the "evidence," but in the same breath made statements indicating the contrary.

I do not agree that Juan's style was not good for his case. MOO. He was dealing with people who are used to being, "for lack of a better term," SHADY. If he had gone soft-ball and let them ramble on and on, it would have been bad for his case. These are people who, as we saw on the stand, try to deceive people. You cannot go soft-ball on people like that. For example, a straight-forward witness was Dr. Horn. Then you see the difference between Dr. Horn and ALV, Samuels, CMJA, and even Geffner. They are of a different type. He was dealing with a type of people such that he HAD to use that technique.

 

[anagrammy]

Thank you Gauntlet!! Everyone needed something good to look forward to today!:seeya:

I tweeted Wild about WS being down. Crickets.

I considered him my secondary site. No more.

What's the name of that site that tells you if a site is up for other people?


Anagrammy

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

Dr. Horn :luv: :luv:

You made that sound so ... wicked. :floorlaugh:

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Tara Kelley ‏@tarakelley320 4h
@NoGingersForMe ugh not a fan whatsoever!!! I felt she was a waste of time and just made the trial last longer!

I hope ALV is still reading twitter.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

She saw it after the trial.

How do you know?

 

[elmomom]

I think this is a good time to post something that I thought of earlier. At least it is a change in subject, since I seem to agree with the minority opinions posted above, and don't want to get slammed for having a minority opinion myself. Although I would like to applaud those that have the courage to post such opinions openly on WS. (Not me I'm chicken, lol)
Anyway, I tried and tried to figu out why Jodi looked so genuinely upset at the hung jury decision, especially since everyone was calling it a win for the defense. OMG did you see the NG soliloquy on it, it was mind-blowing lay awful. She's such a drama queen!
Anyhow, I think that Jodi really was upset, and the reason I think may be is that she is so convinced that she will win her appeal on the actual M1 verdict, that she is upset this trial is now going to continue over the summer, and perhaps longer... Before she can even have an appeal.
possible?
Ps forgive any unsensical words, spellings etc, i'm on my ipad and cannot type on it for the life of me!

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

My sister-in-law cleaned my dad's motorhome, wrote a suicide note and left it in there, then had sex with my brother before going out and blowing her head off in HIS truck. She could have just as easily blown his head off, but she decided to make him suffer and he DID.

I would be shocked if she did NOT try and have sex with Travis before she murdered him. It was the ultimate domination and control. She was the last person he would ever have. She could feel her contempt for his "weakness." Look how she left him. That pose she left him in expressed her utter contempt!

She played Travis like a fiddle. That poor man was SO naive. He doubted even his own instincts because of her seamless manipulations.

Your brother. My God. That is the ultimate guilt-trip slap from the grave. The ultimate final manipulation.

 

[Curious Me]

I've learned some new techniques in dealing with a rambling liar.

"Did I ask you that? I asked you did you return that gas can."

 

[OEJ]

It's a possibility she finally had to have sex with him to get him into the shower if that was where she originally wanted to kill him. A couple of things happened that morning that stopped that from happening. One of the roommates did not leave until 11:30am. He came back around 3 and stayed until 4pm with his girlfriend. Jodi had a couple of interruptions making it difficult to possibly get Travis into the shower when someone was not home. If they had sex a couple of times that day it was because her goal was to get Travis in the shower while the house was empty and she was not about to leave until that happened.

I often wondered if Travis thought she left for good because the front door was locked. Her rental car was not parked in the front but on a side street. She could have gone out through the garage so she would not have been seen carrying bags. If Jodi did leave he locked the door behind her and thought he was safe to take a shower. Why would the front door be locked when roommates said he never locked it? I don't see her taking a chance on leaving by way of the front door and being seen carrying out trash bags. We know she carried out her bloodied clothes, shoes, gun, etc. in something.

I think she locked that door herself while she was penning Napolean downstairs. It would buy her time if someone showed up, and she would be able to hear the garage opening.