SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

[Chester_from_THM]

Nancy Grace used to annoy the heck out of me, and I don't watch her show. But now when I see snippets of her, I think she is funny as h3ll.

Here she is at Estrella with the food:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/01/30/nancy-grace-eats-jodi-arias-prison-food

And here's a funny bit with Cooper Anderson:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/22/nancy-grace-anderson-cooper-missing-handcuff-necklace

Everyone's probably seen these, but I just found them entertaining and thought I'd re-post.

 

[Hope4More]

That's a really interesting POV. IMO, his overall stance was in strong sympathy with the convict. He was not terribly conflicted, even emotionally. After all, it was Jodi that was getting 'crucified', according to him. The preponderance of his statements leads me to believe he wasn't suffering much ambivalence emotionally. But he did pay lip service to the other side.

But what do you REALLY think, Elem?

 

[elementary]

If I may, I have issue with the notion that penalty phase and mitigation is a "personal" thing and jurors can just come up with things. It IS personal, but personal to the extent that it has to be FROM EVIDENCE presented, and it has to be SUBSTANTIALLY PROVEN, MEANING IT IS MORE OFTEN TRUE THAN NOT TRUE. Let's say some jurors took the text message as verbal abuse...okay that's fine...they are SILL not done though...it has to be SUBSTANTIALLY PROVEN. Did Travis verbally abuse Jodi more often than no?? I don't think so.

Getting to what mitigating factors are there is NOT PERSONAL. IT has to be presented in evidence, and it has to be substantially proven. Now, once they decide what mitigating factors there ACTUALLY ARE, then yes, after that it is "personal." Meaning someone can give one mitigating factor more weight than someone else would.

ARRIVING AT WHAT MITIGATING FACTORS THERE ARE IS NOT SUBJECTIVE, IMO. So...based on what I stated above...NONE of the "abuse" should have been a mitigating factor, because NONE WAS SUBSTANTIALLY PROVEN. YET, we hear from many jurors that the 4 who voted life, there MAIN mitigating factors was ABUSE. SO that is all wrong to me.

MOO. That is what I took from reading the jury instructions, and that's how I would have approached it had I been in deliberations.

I sometimes don't agree with your posts, but oh my gosh... fabulous

:goodpost:

 

[MidwestMama]

Midwest.O/T.....so is now a good time to ask ya if the Bears are gonna beat the Packers this year?

I have been waiting for the right moment...

O/T
LOL. Of course they are!
You know how it is with rivals,
it doesn't matter who happens to have the stronger team at the moment,
the hometown heroes are ALWAYS going to win!
:floorlaugh:
(and if they don't.... there is always next year!)

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Decode the hidden messages in these, please. What are they? Anagram puzzles?

pure *advertiser censored*

three-hole wonder

If he knew what I know about you he'd spit in ur face. So would everyone else.

You`re a laughing stock

you have *advertiser censored*`s job

Who freaking cares about you? You`re worthless

rotten lunatic

corrupted carcass

And, with all due respect, many people appear to be launching a defense of blatant verbal abuse, apologizing for it, and attempting to re-define it, simply because they despise the target. Easy to do when the target is an incarcerated convict, but these are not sound arguments.

I agree with you, of course these comments are abusive, why deny the truth?

 

[elementary]

I'm against the death penalty, but it doesn't follow that I agree with the jury foreman's conclusion that Travis was abusive. In fact, I find it highly offensive for Travis to be posthumously abused by Jodi and her defense team. I'm also stunned that anyone on that jury would fall for the smear campaign. I blame much of it on ALV, too, who deliberately left the impression that there were many, many other instances not shown to the jury of verbal abuse by Travis when she knew there were none at all. Unforgivable, IMO.

I stand corrected and hang my head in shame. I should have said, 'rabid anti-DP folks". I am so sorry!

 

[Emmi]

IMHO, you are painting Travis with a very broad brush for very small, and infrequent, incidences. At one time in my life I was an inch from my mother's face and screamed FU at her. I wouldn't call that verbal abuse, it was my reaction to her chronic emotional abuse and mind games, just like Travis was responding to Jodi's mind games (you saw her twisting things on the stand, those are mind games and they clearly came second nature to her) and emotional abuse (I'll kill myself if you leave me - from interviews of Sky Hughes). While I can say I don't like that I screamed that, regardless of the circumstances, at my mother so many years ago, I can't and won't consider that verbal abuse. The same goes for the incidences with Travis. MOO

I would not call your screaming FU at your mother--an emotional abuser--abusive. If fact, I'm glad you expressed your outrage at her.

As for the rest of your post--thank you, KPinMN, for respectfully stating your position--but I feel quite finished with the various "he was just angry" arguments. I have outlined many of my reasons for not accepting that position (not the "just" part of it, anyway), as I see a very, very different picture, gathered from testimony, including ALV's (hot button) and his own writings on the internet (another hot button), that includes frequent and devastating verbal and emotional abuse.

And, I'm actually not so much concerned with the story of Jodi and Travis, per se, but with how the dialogue about verbal/emotional abuse is unfolding here, in these discussion threads. I'm hearing attitudes that anger me, and that also frighten me, because I'm not sure about how representative they are in the larger political/social sense, and how aligned they are with pro-death penalty, anti-rehabilitation, and (arguably) pro-torture predilections. These predilections are almost foreign to me, so it's no surprise that there's much tomato tossing going on both ways!

Well, maybe this just isn't the place to air one's minority/unpopular opinions and arguments for an extended period of time ...

 

[pferrin]

O/T
LOL. Of course they are!
You know how it is with rivals,
it doesn't matter who happens to have the stronger team at the moment,
the hometown heroes are ALWAYS going to win!
:floorlaugh:
(and if they don't.... there is always next year!)

This is prolly biggest rivalry in NFL IMO How is Cutler looking for this year?

 

[elementary]

He's very much not a posterchild for anti-DP. If the killer had conformed more to his notions of what a killer looks like, I can very much see him taking the lead to have her put to death, with the same certainty of self he's expressing now.

Oh, that's really interesting. And depressing. Heh. So it would make sense that if it were a man who did this, he would have been more likely to vote for death? What does a poster child for anti-DP look like anyways? Just wondering.

 

[lisasalinger]

If I may, I have issue with the notion that penalty phase and mitigation is a "personal" thing and jurors can just come up with things. It IS personal, but personal to the extent that it has to be FROM EVIDENCE presented, and it has to be SUBSTANTIALLY PROVEN, MEANING IT IS MORE OFTEN TRUE THAN NOT TRUE. Let's say some jurors took the text message as verbal abuse...okay that's fine...they are SILL not done though...it has to be SUBSTANTIALLY PROVEN. Did Travis verbally abuse Jodi more often than no?? I don't think so.

Getting to what mitigating factors are there is NOT PERSONAL. IT has to be presented in evidence, and it has to be substantially proven. Now, once they decide what mitigating factors there ACTUALLY ARE, then yes, after that it is "personal." Meaning someone can give one mitigating factor more weight than someone else would.

ARRIVING AT WHAT MITIGATING FACTORS THERE ARE IS NOT SUBJECTIVE, IMO. So...based on what I stated above...NONE of the "abuse" should have been a mitigating factor, because NONE WAS SUBSTANTIALLY PROVEN. YET, we hear from many jurors that the 4 who voted life, there MAIN mitigating factors was ABUSE. SO that is all wrong to me.

MOO. That is what I took from reading the jury instructions, and that's how I would have approached it had I been in deliberations.

I agree, great post! I think that's what we've been missing in our arguments... there are two parts to mitigators. One is that they first have to be proven, and the second is the personal part where you decide how heavily it should be weighed. Thank you for articulating this

 

[Hope4More]

Ugh....you mean the defense didn't do it for you Dr. drew? Are you going to allow others to call in and abuse Travis too?

Calling him to request that he does not give loonies a platform to trash Travis. Disgusting that he'd even consider doing so.

 

[CorallaroC]

The ironic thing is that defense never proved abuse from her family. We never saw any of the other siblings up on that stand testifying how abusive their mother and father were to Jodi. She was restricted. Really???? That's abusive? As far as physical abuse, JM proved that the viewing of the pedo material never happened. She was working that day, had his car and Travis had Family Night at church that night. It never happened so that makes the argument about the pictures where he knocked her down and breaking her finger pretty much a lie also. Does anyone think the jury caught when Flores said there was nothing in the attic? Jodi claims she helped Travis move the Christmas decorations to the attic in January. Another lie.

Hi LambChop - wanted to say that I enjoy reading your posts, & at times I catch myself saying out loud "exactly!" with the many valid points you make.

Re: the attic issue mentioned above - I never could figure out what lie(s) she wanted everyone to believe about Travis' attic. Do you have time to summarize your opinion of what that was about? TIA

 

[MidwestMama]

This is prolly biggest rivalry in NFL IMO How is Cutler looking for this year?

I agree. We have friends in WI so to me, the rivalry is all in good fun (but I still want the Bears to win) :drumroll:

Jay Cutler?? Look out Green Bay:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...20130514_1_jay-cutler-bears-qb-matt-cavanaugh

 

[mck16]

wow! Caryn Kelley found not guilty!!! http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...elley-trial-closings-20130528,0,3718308.story

Now those are me jurors I would like to hear from. Also why were there only 6 jurors? tia

 

[elementary]

The ironic thing is that defense never proved abuse from her family. We never saw any of the other siblings up on that stand testifying how abusive their mother and father were to Jodi. She was restricted. Really???? That's abusive? As far as physical abuse, JM proved that the viewing of the pedo material never happened. She was working that day, had his car and Travis had Family Night at church that night. It never happened so that makes the argument about the pictures where he knocked her down and breaking her finger pretty much a lie also. Does anyone think the jury caught when Flores said there was nothing in the attic? Jodi claims she helped Travis move the Christmas decorations to the attic in January. Another lie.

Great points!

Which makes me wonder, if abuse was the issue for the life jurors, then why didn't the jurors bring in and pore over all the testimony relevant to it so they could discuss?

 

[m1279]

Get low, and if you can get some video, but....safety first. I am a horrible example!

Had a pretty intense thunderstorm for about 5 min but then it fizzled out. Apparently more to come tonight though. I'll probably hunker down in my bathtub with the cats...I'm such a chicken.

 

[Tenaciousdae]

Majorly O/T - so I'm working on my summer vacation plans, I and personally like to stay at bed and breakfasts... especially at houses with character and quirky hosts, just my thing... anyway I was clicking through the room photos and found this...









Oh yeah this is definitely my kind of place... take a look to see if you can find the clue. :seeya:

 

[MidwestMama]

Majorly O/T - so I'm working on my summer vacation plans, I and personally like to stay at bed and breakfasts... especially at houses with character and quirky hosts, just my thing... anyway I was clicking through the room photos and found this...









Oh yeah this is definitely my kind of place... take a look to see if you can find the clue. :seeya:

LOL! They have the tv on the right station for you!

 

[Hope4More]

Oh, that's really interesting. And depressing. Heh. So it would make sense that if it were a man who did this, he would have been more likely to vote for death? What does a poster child for anti-DP look like anyways? Just wondering.

Didnt 'say it made sense, but yep, if she'd been a man or a great big ugly chick he'd have voted DP, me thinks.

What does an anti-DP poster child look like? Me, 6 months ago. Middle-aged, advanced degrees, proud member of the ACLU, way liberal.

 

[Jella]

Justice4Travis ‏@Justice4TravisA 31m

Today, the AZ Supreme Court will consider whether to take jurisdiction of an appeal of the death-penalty... http://fb.me/1GOR94cGU