SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

[Linda7NJ]

I got a Pantech Burst...which is what I was about to do trying to set it up. LOL. I didn't buy a data plan yet because I run it off my home wifi. It will be nice to take it and play my music with the earbuds. It takes good pictures, better than my Samsung slider did. And I was surprised it was easier to use the little keyboard than I thought it would be. I got a free one (refurbished) via ATT. I seldom use my phone for calls. I get 450 minutes a month and I've got over 5600 minutes in rollover. A social butterfly I'm not! :floorlaugh:

Never heard of it! Free is always good... Unless it breaths.
I'm glad you like it!


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[elementary]

Question:
What is your opinion of Juan's style towards Dr. Samuels and Laviolette?

Answer:
he was good, a little over the top at times but it worked! They were very flustered on that stand with him!

Amazing. What was Alyce doing with her snarky, condescending challenges? Talk about over the top! She was plain rude and hostile and offensive.

On the other hand, I guess JM is not to everyone's taste when he really goes to town.

 

[JSR]

Ok y'all I really wasn't kidding when I suggested having a devoted thread for all the juror comments. Can we get a mod to create one???

Oh Beach ........

 

[Whack A Mole]

Thank you!
I'm 46 and look up to and welcome advice from my elders!

I have far more respect for the critical thinking skills, reasoning and morals of those older than myself then I do of my same aged peers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're welcome! If I had my way, families wouldn't move away from each other. Kids should get to know their grand parents. I had one grand ma here I hardly saw. My other grandma was on a farm in Illinois. Both grandpas died before I was born. I would have loved to have learned from them. My parents taught me respect, to work for what I have, to never turn your back on someone in need and to thank God every night before you fall asleep for that door that locks and that food in your tummy. Respect is taught to children, but earned as an adult.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

This is the stuff that was SEALED:

THE COURT: The record will show the
presence of the defendant and all counsel. The jury
is not present.
Counsel, you wanted to speak before we
brought the jury in?
MR. NURMI: Judge, we're requesting a stay.
We had -- a stay of requested proceedings.
If I may approach?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. NURMI: This was e-filed this morning.
This relates to any potential aggravation phase that
may be forthcoming in this trial.
THE COURT: Mr. Martinez.
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MR. MARTINEZ: The State would object to
the request for the stay. There really is no good
reason -- people can give any reason they want, but
there is no good reason to grant the stay.
Additionally, the State -- and I was just
handed this right now, but the State disputes the
factual allegations in the defendant's request for
the stay. He's, I believe, mischaracterizing
Detective Flores's statement and testimony and so I
do not see a reason for the stay.
THE COURT: Mr. Nurmi, anything else?
MR. NURMI: No, Your Honor. We will stand
on the written pleading.
THE COURT: All right. The request for a
stay of proceedings is denied at this time. I
believe that there is adequate time for you to pursue
your remedy before we get to that point in the
proceedings, if we get to that point in the
proceedings.
Anything else?
MR. MARTINEZ: Judge, there was some
coverage, including some printed coverage of this
case over the weekend, and so I would ask that you
inquire of the jurors whether or not they saw
anything and then of course to continue to advise
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them of the admonition.

 

[polleypockets]

APPLICATION FOR INTERLOCUTORY STAY OF AGGRAVATION TRIAL - interesting read.

This is this is the actual application document. It won't let me give you a "clickable" link - you'll have to copy and paste I think.

media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Stay.pdf


And here IS THE PETITION FOR REVIEW:

media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Petition.pdf ·


…

this cracked me up, nurmi dated it the 29th of feb.! lol

 

[gitana1]

WHAT? :what:

What is this all about? Can the Aggravated Cruelty Verdict be taken away by the higher courts now?

Don't worry. That's just a routine appeal. It doesn't matter which way Travis was killed. The aggravators would have been present either way.

How is this case any different from Clara Harris, who snapped and ran over her husband three times. She got murder two and will be eligible for parole this year [which I think is ten years].

It's the same 'overkill.' And I don't think anyone would argue Clara Harris was a psychopath even given the overkill of running over her husband repeatedly. Sometimes people just snap and do outrageous things. Sometimes they are just pushed too far. Or there are extenuating circumstances.

IMO

The difference is that there was a boatload of evidence of premeditation in this case and none really in Clara Harris' case.

But Texas law is different than AZ law. There, they apparently decide first if it;s murder and then they decide if it's basically murder one or two. If they find that sudden passion wa spresent, that's more like what most other states call second degree murder.

Clara Harris was found guilty of what's equivalent to second degree murder. So in that case, they found there was no premeditation, but instead, that she acted with a sudden passion.

In this case, the jury didn't find that jodi acted with sudden passion. They found, rightfully, IMO, that she premeditated the killing of Travis.

Thanks. It wasn't murder one. It was some kind of 'sudden passion' murder charge, they're calling it manslaughter here, with a maximum of 20 years. But, it sounds very similar to the overkill in this case. That's assuming you do not believe premed was proven, which I don't. IMO


The Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles made the decision Thursday, citing the nature of the offense as the reason.

"The record indicates that the inmate committed one or more violent criminal acts indicating a conscious disregard for the lives, safety or property of others; or the instant offense of pattern of criminal activity has elements of brutality, violence or conscious selection of victim's vulnerability such that the inmate poses a continuing threat to public safety; or the records indicates use of a weapon," according to a release from the parole board.

"That sounds like boilerplate language," Detoto said.

She acknowledged the odds were stacked against Harris being paroled on her first attempt.

"But, we always remained hopeful," Detoto said.

Harris has served half of her 20-year sentence for the July 24, 2002, manslaughter of 44-year-old David Harris

The article you cited is incorrect. However, you are right that it wasn;t really equivalent to murder one. IT was murder with sudden passion which is more like murder 2. It was NOT, however, manslaughter, which is a completely different charge:

(b) A person commits an offense if he:
(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or
(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.
(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.
(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree. http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/5/19/19.02

Assoc. Press, Thursday, February 13, 2003
Clara Harris Found Guilty of Murder

HOUSTON - A woman who ran down her cheating husband with her Mercedes after catching him with his mistress was convicted of murder Thursday despite her tearful claim that she hit him accidentally, while in a heartsick daze.
Clara Harris, 45, could get a life sentence, or a lesser punishment if the jury concludes she acted with "sudden passion." Two jurors wept as the judge returned the verdict against the mother of young twins.
Harris showed no emotion as she listened to the verdict. But she burst into sobs as the penalty phase began with her 17-year-old stepdaughter confiding on the witness stand that she had attempted suicide four times since her father's death last July. The teenager was a passenger in the Mercedes that day. http://www.toobeautiful.org/ap_030213.html

On Thursday, jurors found Harris, 45, guilty of murder for repeatedly running over her 44-year-old orthodontist husband with her car. The crime was caught on tape by a private investigator Clara Harris had hired to document her husband's affair.
Jurors found that Harris acted with "sudden passion," which could have reduced the jurors' recommendation to probation. Instead, the jury said Harris should be fined and sentenced to prison at the upper limit of the sentencing guidelines for the special circumstance. http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/14/harris.trial/

 

[NancyGracesBangs]

I agree that she wasn't normal, but if you listen to dad, he says something about her having issues for the past year and a half to 2 years (and maybe longer than that). That was about the time that she knew Travis. Too close to call, IMO. Anyway, IIRC, the tapes were found to be too prejudicial and weren't going to be allowed in. I don't think ANYTHING would have swayed the foreman...especially after hearing a comment like that.

I agree to a point but IMO that had to do with her obsession with Travis not that Travis knew her. Heck, if I go back in my boyfriend library, there was probably that "one" who made me a little more wonky than any other. The foreman's words seemed to lay her "issues" at Travis's doorstep rather than it was her obsession with Travis.

 

[TXProfessional]

Amazing. What was Alyce doing with her snarky, condescending challenges? Talk about over the top! She was plain rude and hostile and offensive.

On the other hand, I guess JM is not to everyone's taste when he really goes to town.

Hi Elementary!

I know right. It never ceases to amaze me that the "good guys" are always held to a higher standard, and how his style was a "fighting fire with fire" thing because I am CONVINCED if he had not been relentless and assertive the DT lies would have drown out justice in this trial

 

[writer7]

...And, I'm actually not so much concerned with the story of Jodi and Travis, per se, but with how the dialogue about verbal/emotional abuse is unfolding here, in these discussion threads. I'm hearing attitudes that anger me, and that also frighten me, because I'm not sure about how representative they are in the larger political/social sense, and how aligned they are with pro-death penalty, anti-rehabilitation, and (arguably) pro-torture predilections. These predilections are almost foreign to me, so it's no surprise that there's much tomato tossing going on both ways!

Well, maybe this just isn't the place to air one's minority/unpopular opinions and arguments for an extended period of time ...

I do support Travis enough on that over-the-top email, because I'm not about to believe the defense had more to work with and didn't use it.

I'm also only for the Death Penalty in extremely rare cases, so I wouldn't have wanted the DP for JA.

As far as societal views go, I hear ya (really). But here's one, too, that's been around in the US for a very long time, and I think it fits this case perfectly (the youtube link). It comes down against JA in this case, yes. But if you are familiar with the history of the meek little waif getting away with murder in the US, you should count that in your analysis Some of us are incensed that she wouldn't get Death when other Americans would had they been proved guilty of the same crime.

Please watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EB0CkB7mRiY#t=149s

Or the whole video, which is full-on awesomeness:
chicago-razzle dazzle them - YouTube

Chicago is my favorite musical and one of my top 5 movies

 

[TartLemon]

What I still cannot fathom is why it was not made more clear that Jodi ALWAYS went to Travis. He NEVER went to her. She was not held captive and as a matter of FACT, Travis specifically asked she stay away.

Jodi was an abuser to the nth degree.

 

[Sulamith]

Now this makes me wonder. Travis was a business man. I have never heard if he "sold" JA his car was there any type of written agreement ?
Would we even know ?

Just a thought -doesn't really matter now I guess.

Eta: people are like furniture to BPD's. They can drop them as if they never had even met them. JA speaks about her "reputation" in Flores interview and even after she was found guilty, maybe it wasn't that no one else could have him.
She silenced him. Ugg who knows...
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BBM I have no link but I heard somewhere, the trial maybe, that there was an car purchase agreement via email.

 

[kscornfed]

Clara Harris was armed with nothing but her car - no knife, gun, or gas cans, and no premeditation.
IMO

i attended a few days of that trial. i was there the day they showed the video of her running over him. it was made MUCH worse by the fact that his daughter was in the car with her. if she had been by herself, i don't know if it would have mattered but it may have.
this was classic manslaughter, IMO. heat of passion? oh yeah! she was hopping mad when she hit him.

 

[aa9511]

From the National Education Alliance Borderline Personality Disorder:

http://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com/understading-bpd/a-bpd-brief/

"Borderline Personality Disorder, like all other major psychiatric disorders, is caused by a complex combination of genetic, social, and psychological factors. All modern theories now agree that multiple causes must interact with one another in order for the disorder to become manifest."

"There are, however, known risk factors for the development of BPD. The risk factors include those present at birth, called temperaments; experiences occurring in childhood; and sustained environmental influences."

"Borderline Personality Disorder usually manifests itself in early adulthood, but symptoms of it (e.g., self-harm) can be found in early adolescence. As individuals with BPD age, their symptoms and/or the severity of the illness usually diminish. Indeed, about 40-50% of borderline patients remit within two years and this rate rises to 85% by 10 years."

I think her symptoms may have manifested themselves around the time she knew Travis, but that was merely a coincidence and not the result of her relationship with him; those seeds were most likely planted years ago.

And it also has to do with the fact that she was extremely obsessed with him, more than any other guy. This obsession literally brought her BPD to dangerous levels.

So Mr. Foreman needs to think, of course it would seem as if she started going crazy with Travis...b/c her obsession with him was crazy!!!

I do not get how he thinks she was "completely normal" before him, either.

 

[rose222]

If Mario McNeill had stabbed Jodi 28 times, slit her throat from ear to ear and then shot her in the head and the jury had only half the evidence this JA case has he would still have gotten the DP after an hour of deliberations. If Mario had claimed (with no evidence) that JA had abused him he would have gotten even more hate for spewing lies. No one would have hesitated to call him a monster.

How sad this is. Poor Travis.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Stay was denied.

SUPREME COURT OF ARIZONA
JODI ANN ARIAS, ) Arizona Supreme Court
) No. CV-13-0049-PR
Petitioner, )
) Court of Appeals
v. ) Division One
) No. 1 CA-SA 13-0026
THE HONORABLE SHERRY STEPHENS, )
JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT OF ) Maricopa County
THE STATE OF ARIZONA, in and for ) Superior Court
the County of Maricopa, ) No. CR2008-031021-001
)
Respondent Judge, ) FILED 02/22/2013
)
STATE OF ARIZONA, ex rel. )
WILLIAM G. MONTGOMERY, MARICOPA )
COUNTY ATTORNEY, )
)
Real Party in Interest. ) O R D E R
__________________________________)
Upon considering the Application for Interlocutory Stay of
Aggravation Trial filed by Petitioner Jodi Ann Arias,
IT IS ORDERED that the application for stay is denied.
DATED this ________

 

[AZWatcher]

I took delivery on a smart phone yesterday. If it's so smart, why did it take me and the ATT gal over a half hour to get it going and on line? :floorlaugh: My God there's more buttons and carp on there I know I'll never use. I can tune a 65 mustang...but this thing is just still such a mystery! :floorlaugh:

It took me a very long time to bite the bullet and give up my very simple samsung flip phone....TMobile gave it to me for free cuz they can't downgrade you. My BF bought me a Blackberry that lasted one day ... It stressed me out so bad that I pressed the roller ball thingy with such force it got stuck ... it never recovered. Back to the flip.

I returned the iphone he bought me before I even opened the box. I told him to stop threatening me with technology. This past Fall I was at a party and I answered my phone in front of some smart azz youngin' who chuckled and asked me Did you steal that phone from Zack Morris?

Then my 4 year old niece opened it and pretended to use it as a compact mirror. She didn't know what it was. When I explained it was a phone she laughed at me.

My children asked me on a few occasions NOT to put it on the table in restaurants where people could see it...

I went out to run errands for a few hours one day and left what everyone referred to as "The Dinosaur" on the counter... By the time I got home my BF had taken it to Verizon ... and had all my contacts and stuff put onto a new iphone. I was pizzed at first. Now I love it.

ETA .. I still don't know WTH I'm doing ... a few weeks ago I sat on it in my car and face timed images of my *advertiser censored* to my brother ... which he shared and laughed with everyone in his office about. I assfaced him. Didn't mean to.

 

[JSR]

APPLICATION FOR INTERLOCUTORY STAY OF AGGRAVATION TRIAL - interesting read.

This is this is the actual application document. It won't let me give you a "clickable" link - you'll have to copy and paste I think.

media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Stay.pdf


And here IS THE PETITION FOR REVIEW:

media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Petition.pdf ·


…

Color me not shocked.

So now that the DT got the second best outcome they hope to indefinitely stall this out to keep Jodi in jail and not in prison. And to of course wear down the Alexander family hoping they will cave and take the DP off the table and give them a shot at lobbying to the judge for a chance of parole.

 

[TXProfessional]

Ok y'all I really wasn't kidding when I suggested having a devoted thread for all the juror comments. Can we get a mod to create one???

Oh Beach ........

JSR, I believe it is on it's way. I had asked the same thing and work is being done to that end, as we speak.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Color me not shocked.

So now that the DT got the second best outcome they hope to indefinitely stall this out to keep Jodi in jail and not in prison. And to of course wear down the Alexander family hoping they will cave and take the DP off the table and give them a shot at lobbying to the judge for a chance of parole.

Just about every motion they filed was (in their mind) remedied by either taking Juan off the case, or dropping the DP. LOL