Simple question...

[MurriFlower]

Me, too. Perhaps Murri was listening to a different one.

No, I think it was the same one. There is nothing that makes me think it was not genuine distress.

 

[SunnieRN]

No, I think it was the same one. There is nothing that makes me think it was not genuine distress.

You listened to the original Geraldo show, where they played the enhanced tape?

 

[MurriFlower]

You listened to the original Geraldo show, where they played the enhanced tape?

Oh, so is it the actual call or the supposed 'other voice' that is the subject of this conversation? I've listed over and over to this part of the tape and all I can say is that there is no voice that I heard, let alone interpret it as someone on the R's end of the line (rather than the operators), then identify it as BR and tell what he was saying. I've never heard his voice have you? I think this is just like the dolls in the picture. People swear they could see dolls but couldn't say where they were. They see and hear what they want to.

 

[SunnieRN]

Oh, so is it the actual call or the supposed 'other voice' that is the subject of this conversation? I've listed over and over to this part of the tape and all I can say is that there is no voice that I heard, let alone interpret it as someone on the R's end of the line (rather than the operators), then identify it as BR and tell what he was saying. I've never heard his voice have you? I think this is just like the dolls in the picture. People swear they could see dolls but couldn't say where they were. They see and hear what they want to.

Thank you for answering my original question in a very around about way.

 

[BBB167893]

Oh boy, is this AGREEMENT?? I can hardly believe it's possible.

Don't get happy yet. Originally, it read, "my point exactly. So why did they?"

RDI = they lied

IDI = they didn't lie

Those would be the choices.

Are you sure you understand that if an intruder killed JBR then no-one in the R family told a deliberate untruth about anything??

I understand that just fine. Question is, do you understand that there was no reason for them to lie if they are innocent?

This is my opinion.

Is this worthy of some kind of acknowledgement that there is another line of thought other than yours?

I think you forget who you're talking to. I used to be an IDI. I'm aware of all kinds of different schools of thought.

 

[BBB167893]

No, I think it was the same one. There is nothing that makes me think it was not genuine distress.

Leaving that aside for a moment, I meant are you sure it wasn't the edited version?

 

[BBB167893]

Oh, so is it the actual call or the supposed 'other voice' that is the subject of this conversation?

That's right.

I've listed over and over to this part of the tape and all I can say is that there is no voice that I heard, let alone interpret it as someone on the R's end of the line (rather than the operators), then identify it as BR and tell what he was saying. I've never heard his voice have you? I think this is just like the dolls in the picture. People swear they could see dolls but couldn't say where they were. They see and hear what they want to.

Well, it doesn't matter what we hear on the tape, Murri. What matters is what the audio techs at Aerospace Corp heard!

 

[Ames]

Believe as you will. I heard differently.

I heard that tape as well..and I also heard a third voice...which I believe to be Burke. And this is LONG before I had even started getting onto these JBR boards...heck, I hadn't been using the internet too long, when I heard the tape. I didn't even know what a "board" was then. So I was unbiased...and I heard a third voice. I know what I heard...and it was there whether or not IDI's want to believe it or not.

 

[Ames]

Oh, so is it the actual call or the supposed 'other voice' that is the subject of this conversation? I've listed over and over to this part of the tape and all I can say is that there is no voice that I heard, let alone interpret it as someone on the R's end of the line (rather than the operators), then identify it as BR and tell what he was saying. I've never heard his voice have you? I think this is just like the dolls in the picture. People swear they could see dolls but couldn't say where they were. They see and hear what they want to.

You must not have heard the enhanced version. I did...and a third voice in there. I heard it YEARS ago...before I had even heard of these JBR Boards...so, I heard what I heard...and not what I WANTED to hear.

 

[Toltec]

Now, don't think I'm crazy (but if you already do, that's OK too) but I remember reading somewhere (and for the life of me I can't recall where) that Patsy used to draw little hearts on JB's hand and tell her "my heart is in your hands".
I remember that phrase very clearly. Anyone else?

Patsy was told that a friend had mentioned that Patsy would draw a smiley face on JonBenet when she was feeling sad. Patsy stated she does not recall ever doing that. Patsy then goes on and states that it was Santa McReynolds who made the reference of Santa being in your heart at all times.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Patsy was told that a friend had mentioned that Patsy would draw a smiley face on JonBenet when she was feeling sad. Patsy stated she does not recall ever doing that. Patsy then goes on and states that it was Santa McReynolds who made the reference of Santa being in your heart at all times.

That's the way I heard it too, Toltec. Deny, deny, deny and then throw someone under the bus!

 

[Flakes]

I have made some very simple curve and brightness/contrast adjustments plus applied a very slight Smart Sharpen in Photoshop to the image of the hand palm. This helps the shape stand out much clearer against the hand, without the distraction of natural skin creases. Click on the thumbnail for a larger view.

 

[otg]

I have made some very simple curve and brightness/contrast adjustments plus applied a very slight Smart Sharpen in Photoshop to the image of the hand palm. This helps the shape stand out much clearer against the hand, without the distraction of natural skin creases. Click on the thumbnail for a larger view.

Wow, Flakes -- impressive. I must say though... That's one of the worst hearts I've ever seen drawn.
.

 

[Flakes]

Wow, Flakes -- impressive. I must say though... That's one of the worst hearts I've ever seen drawn.
.

I would expect a heart to have a pointed base and to meet at the top. This shape has neither. I'm sure the marking would have looked different on her actual hand in person; however, I find it hard to comprehend how it was interpreted as a heart. Epecially when you see my adjustments to the photo with colours stripped back. I can't see it as a heart at all.

It looks more like the drawing of a face by a 2-4 year old, where they draw the eyes as a downward line then the big smile as a curved line up around the sides of the eyes, and these often overlap. IMO it's unlikely JB would have drawn that way. It might have been a circle, like drawing "ring-a-ring-a-rosie" or "this little piggie" on her hand ... but that's all total speculation. Try as I might, I don't see a heart.

More than anything I see a capital "G". And that's if I am trying to see something.

 

[Agatha_C]

Whats the darker line under the pink ink? Is it pen? I know Im not seeing things. I may hear voices but I dont ever see who they belong too.... I once thought it was a healing burn, but DeeDee came along with a bucket of cold reality to dowse my fire before it burned out of control. Leaving me wondering, what then, is that darker line?

 

[DeeDee249]

Whats the darker line under the pink ink? Is it pen? I know Im not seeing things. I may hear voices but I dont ever see who they belong too.... I once thought it was a healing burn, but DeeDee came along with a bucket of cold reality to dowse my fire before it burned out of control. Leaving me wondering, what then, is that darker line?

Sorry for that cold splash! :innocent:

As far as the heart, I do have to say that it does look like a heart to me, although it looks like a heart that was drawn on JB's hand by someone as she held out her hand, and therefore her hand was not steady and the heart doesn't look as it should if it were drawn on flat paper. It does have a childish look to it, and I can certainly imagine it having been put there at the White's or at home that day. I also have to say that, with all that goes on in the typical household with young kids Christmas Day, and the festivities of the White's dinner party, the heart may not have even been seen by Patsy or JR. However- this makes Patsy's comment about it being "a pretty good little heart" all the more suspect. If Patsy claimed she never saw the autopsy photos, never saw JB in the WC, and as we all know JB was covered with an afghan and sweatshirt before Patsy was brought in to see the body, I don't know how she would have seen it, unless she KNEW it was something one of the kids drew on her or she drew on herself.
So - here we have another "lie" about something innocent. If the heart is something that was innocent play between kids, why lie about it? If you noticed it that day or evening before the crime why not tell police that it was something the kids must have done? Why make something ominous of it?
I can answer that, too. Like the suitcase, which FW admitted he put under the basement window, and like the broken window itself, which JR admitted he broke, this became one more thing for LS (and the RST) to pile on the "intruder" bandwagon. Let's blame the heart on an intruder, since the parents claim they know nothing about it.
One more interesting question for BR, right? Did he know anything about the kids or JB specifically drawing on each other. Guess we'll never know.
As far as the red line under the "pink"? I don't see a pink line with a red line under it. I see a red ink line. It may look pink in the photos, but the coroner noted a red ink drawing and that is what I think it is. If it had been another color, or had a burn or abrasion or injury under it, the coroner would have noted it. To me, it is as he described it- a red ink drawing.

 

[Toltec]

Sorry for that cold splash! :innocent:

As far as the heart, I do have to say that it does look like a heart to me, although it looks like a heart that was drawn on JB's hand by someone as she held out her hand, and therefore her hand was not steady and the heart doesn't look as it should if it were drawn on flat paper. It does have a childish look to it, and I can certainly imagine it having been put there at the White's or at home that day. I also have to say that, with all that goes on in the typical household with young kids Christmas Day, and the festivities of the White's dinner party, the heart may not have even been seen by Patsy or JR. However- this makes Patsy's comment about it being "a pretty good little heart" all the more suspect. If Patsy claimed she never saw the autopsy photos, never saw JB in the WC, and as we all know JB was covered with an afghan and sweatshirt before Patsy was brought in to see the body, I don't know how she would have seen it, unless she KNEW it was something one of the kids drew on her or she drew on herself.
So - here we have another "lie" about something innocent. If the heart is something that was innocent play between kids, why lie about it? If you noticed it that day or evening before the crime why not tell police that it was something the kids must have done? Why make something ominous of it?
I can answer that, too. Like the suitcase, which FW admitted he put under the basement window, and like the broken window itself, which JR admitted he broke, this became one more thing for LS (and the RST) to pile on the "intruder" bandwagon. Let's blame the heart on an intruder, since the parents claim they know nothing about it.
One more interesting question for BR, right? Did he know anything about the kids or JB specifically drawing on each other. Guess we'll never know.
As far as the red line under the "pink"? I don't see a pink line with a red line under it. I see a red ink line. It may look pink in the photos, but the coroner noted a red ink drawing and that is what I think it is. If it had been another color, or had a burn or abrasion or injury under it, the coroner would have noted it. To me, it is as he described it- a red ink drawing.

John also points out that the red pen used for the heart was also used on the crossed out faces in the pamphlet and the heart drawn around John's picture.

 

[Agatha_C]

I found this while cruising the threads. Its an old post by a poster named Rocket. Rocket if your reading this, nice work, hope you dont mind my pasting it here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48250&page=3


11 THOMAS HANEY: On the 25th,
12 Christmas, when you put JonBenet to bed, did she
13 have any marks on her?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
15 THOMAS HANEY: Any scratches, cuts,
16 bruises?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
18 THOMAS HANEY: How about, did she
19 have any marks from markers or anything like
20 that?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't notice
22 anything that night when she went to bed. And,
23 you know, I know there was a red heart on her
24 hand or her forehead. I don't know when that --
25 I mean, you know, I didn't -- I didn't inspect
0195
1 her when I put her to bed.

2 THOMAS HANEY: But when you put her
3 to bed, let's talk about that. We will go into
4 a little more detail later, because we have some
5 photographs and we want to talk about that. You
6 were -- at least changed part of her clothing
7 when she is asleep?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum, right.
9 THOMAS HANEY: Doesn't --
10 (INAUDIBLE). Did you notice anything?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (No response.)
12 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
13 washed her hands at a particular time?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, at dinner, she
15 rarely washed her hands.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Would she, or
17 perhaps she had been eating crab and you have
18 that slimy stuff all over?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think she is
20 going to wash her hands. But I didn't see her.
21 I don't know.
22 THOMAS HANEY: Getting her ready
23 that early afternoon, four or five o'clock, did
24 you give her a bath, did she take a bath?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so.
0196
1 THOMAS HANEY: You don't think you
2 gave her one?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.
4 THOMAS HANEY: Do you think she
5 took one?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, she didn't take
7 one (INAUDIBLE).
8 THOMAS HANEY: Showers?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.
10 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
11 washed her hands before getting ready to go?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I'd like to think
13 so, but I just don't know for sure.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: At the Whites, did
15 somebody say, oh, here, get ready for dinner?
16 Did somebody tell her to go wash her hands at
17 the Whites, do you remember anything about that?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: How was she about
20 washing her hands?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Just typical kid,
22 you know, if she can get by with it, she
23 wouldn't do it. You know, but I was pretty much
24 always (INAUDIBLE). (Gesturing.)
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Had you referred to
0197
1 that at all Christmas Day?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
3 don't remember exactly, but I may have.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: How do you know there
5 was a heart on her hand?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it was on
7 there in the morning, that's why.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: And you remember it
9 from the next morning?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: You saw it the next
12 morning?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say the next
15 morning, did you remember it from the previous
16 evening?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) (No
18 response.)
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Did she -- I mean did
20 it get there, was that something she would do
21 or --

a bit later:

18 PATSY RAMSEY: That was a pretty
19 good little heart, you know, I mean -- pretty
20 well drawn.

and, then, the next day of the interview:

20 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, I wasn't clear
21 whether you were talking about picture of her in
22 the laundry room, or pictures of her located in
23 the laundry room. And I think that I read
24 somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
25 And truthfully, I can't -- I am having trouble
0207
1 distinguishing whether I have read about that or
2 whether I actually saw that. I just recently
3 read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
4 that was on there. And I just, you know, now I
5 have a picture of a heart on her hand and I
6 can't remember whether I actually saw it or --
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
9 color that you recall?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
11 heart in my mind.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know if
13 you read it?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just to be
15 perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.


She didnt see it when she put her to bed, but the heart was there the next morning????? What????? So PR admits to seeing her in the morning. Why was she never arrested. PR all but said Yeah I did it... For crying out loud. I need to go to bed, I am ticked off.... If this was Joe the Plumber, he'd be in jail for 60 years to life if he was lucky....

 

[horatio]

IMO It looks more like a smiley face than a heart.

 

[BBB167893]

I found this while cruising the threads. Its an old post by a poster named Rocket. Rocket if your reading this, nice work, hope you dont mind my pasting it here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48250&page=3


11 THOMAS HANEY: On the 25th,
12 Christmas, when you put JonBenet to bed, did she
13 have any marks on her?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
15 THOMAS HANEY: Any scratches, cuts,
16 bruises?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
18 THOMAS HANEY: How about, did she
19 have any marks from markers or anything like
20 that?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't notice
22 anything that night when she went to bed. And,
23 you know, I know there was a red heart on her
24 hand or her forehead. I don't know when that --
25 I mean, you know, I didn't -- I didn't inspect
0195
1 her when I put her to bed.

2 THOMAS HANEY: But when you put her
3 to bed, let's talk about that. We will go into
4 a little more detail later, because we have some
5 photographs and we want to talk about that. You
6 were -- at least changed part of her clothing
7 when she is asleep?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum, right.
9 THOMAS HANEY: Doesn't --
10 (INAUDIBLE). Did you notice anything?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (No response.)
12 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
13 washed her hands at a particular time?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, at dinner, she
15 rarely washed her hands.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Would she, or
17 perhaps she had been eating crab and you have
18 that slimy stuff all over?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think she is
20 going to wash her hands. But I didn't see her.
21 I don't know.
22 THOMAS HANEY: Getting her ready
23 that early afternoon, four or five o'clock, did
24 you give her a bath, did she take a bath?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so.
0196
1 THOMAS HANEY: You don't think you
2 gave her one?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.
4 THOMAS HANEY: Do you think she
5 took one?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, she didn't take
7 one (INAUDIBLE).
8 THOMAS HANEY: Showers?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.
10 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
11 washed her hands before getting ready to go?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I'd like to think
13 so, but I just don't know for sure.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: At the Whites, did
15 somebody say, oh, here, get ready for dinner?
16 Did somebody tell her to go wash her hands at
17 the Whites, do you remember anything about that?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: How was she about
20 washing her hands?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Just typical kid,
22 you know, if she can get by with it, she
23 wouldn't do it. You know, but I was pretty much
24 always (INAUDIBLE). (Gesturing.)
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Had you referred to
0197
1 that at all Christmas Day?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
3 don't remember exactly, but I may have.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: How do you know there
5 was a heart on her hand?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it was on
7 there in the morning, that's why.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: And you remember it
9 from the next morning?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: You saw it the next
12 morning?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say the next
15 morning, did you remember it from the previous
16 evening?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) (No
18 response.)
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Did she -- I mean did
20 it get there, was that something she would do
21 or --

a bit later:

18 PATSY RAMSEY: That was a pretty
19 good little heart, you know, I mean -- pretty
20 well drawn.

and, then, the next day of the interview:

20 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, I wasn't clear
21 whether you were talking about picture of her in
22 the laundry room, or pictures of her located in
23 the laundry room. And I think that I read
24 somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
25 And truthfully, I can't -- I am having trouble
0207
1 distinguishing whether I have read about that or
2 whether I actually saw that. I just recently
3 read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
4 that was on there. And I just, you know, now I
5 have a picture of a heart on her hand and I
6 can't remember whether I actually saw it or --
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
9 color that you recall?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
11 heart in my mind.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know if
13 you read it?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just to be
15 perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.


She didnt see it when she put her to bed, but the heart was there the next morning????? What????? So PR admits to seeing her in the morning. Why was she never arrested. PR all but said Yeah I did it... For crying out loud. I need to go to bed, I am ticked off.... If this was Joe the Plumber, he'd be in jail for 60 years to life if he was lucky....

Damn straight, Agatha!