Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

[Dear Prudence]

Is there a photo of that somewhere?
I wonder if she was carting whole photo albums?

See page 1 on this thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4301562&postcount=22"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items[/ame]
Thanks for posting the picture, Lacey!
Backpack is huge! I'm suprised KC can stand up with it on her back. She could definetly be carrying lots of photo albums.

 

[BeanE]

As Misheley26 pointed out up-thread, JB might have asked Casey to collect items for purposes other than DNA comparison. 'Bombshell' SODDI frame-ups would also increase the value of said items and the story.

Alternately, even if that wasn't the purpose for gathering the items, the theory evolves further to show that JB specifically asked for items early last fall to compare DNA to a dead Caylee - long before Caylee's remains were found, while the defense and family insisted Caylee was Alive, not to mention DC out there prodding the ground with his stick... all of which is not only damning, it could prove that Casey was being severely, (and unethically,) misguided by her advisors.

And you know, I can't help but think that if the State knows that ANY of these theories are true - THEY HAVE THEIR SMOKING GUN.

Respectfully snipped.

I think you might be on to something here, TE.

Why did the defense need that DNA testing done? I've been scratching my head over that. :waitasec:

Some fuel for this particular fire:

Anyway, that DNA testing would have been done in early October. Sometime in October (I'll look for a date) Todd Black slipped and said Caylee was dead. Then November we have DC poking around for Caylee's body. Also November we have Terry L's DP document in which kidnapping/nanny wasn't mentioned even once, but said that if Caylee was dead, it was almost certainly an accident.

There are other things have been discussed that point to the defense knowing in that timeframe that Caylee was dead.

 

[magic-cat]

*snipped to point*

3dog - CA's depositions were on the 28th and 29th of July and GA's deposition was on the 5th of August. CA told them that they had one of the round cloth laundry bags and one of the rectangular cloth laundry bags. She is the one that tells them first about the balls being kept in the round one.

No, they knew about it in advance to even know to question her about it...somehow they obtained this information before this deposition...how is the question?

The DP was put back on the table April 13 2009, after that hearing.
Story: http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/4/13/oprah_to_interview_casey_anthonys_parents.html
Document: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/19169375.pdf

There is nothing official about nasty photos even existing. The hearing was for the PB account photos, motion filed by the Sentinel, which were already out at that time anyway, so it was a moot point.

You are absolutely correct that the OTHER Photobucket photos were NOT sealed. Here is a link just for confirmation. (This was heard the same day as the motion about the jailhouse video of her reaction when the remains of Caylee were found).
Here is the thread from the day of this ruling:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80748&highlight=current+news

and here is the link to the news report about it:
http://www.wftv.com/video/18841422/index.html

 

[Dear Prudence]

Respectfully snipped.

I think you might be on to something here, TE.

Why did the defense need that DNA testing done? I've been scratching my head over that. :waitasec:

Some fuel for this particular fire:

Anyway, that DNA testing would have been done in early October. Sometime in October (I'll look for a date) Todd Black slipped and said Caylee was dead. Then November we have DC poking around for Caylee's body. Also November we have Terry L's DP document in which kidnapping/nanny wasn't mentioned even once, but said that if Caylee was dead, it was almost certainly an accident.

There are other things have been discussed that point to the defense knowing in that timeframe that Caylee was dead.

They also got access to the pontiac in November IIRC. So they might have wanted to do their own DNA testing of the stain or hair found in the trunk. At the time I remember lots of sleuthers questioning the other 17 hairs that Dr. Henry Lee "found" in the trunk. He has a reputation for, ah, manipulating evidence. Now we know for a fact KC collected many hairs from her home and gave them to Jose. Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder.

 

[3doglady]

I like the way you are thinking.

My only disagreement is that I believe it is not legal for an attorney to represent that a client is 'innocent', if they are certain of guilt. They can say, "My client is not guilty," but they can't specifically cite innocence, IIRC.

Also, there is a huge ethical issue with not reporting the whereabouts of Caylee's remains if he knew - discussed and debated on many threads, especially those where it was said by DC that he was 'told not to call 911 if he found Caylee,' pressumably by JB.

That said, I wonder if you are right? I've questioned JB's ethics for many months, so this would not be a shocker or a stretch.

I am so hoping the State faught to get CA back in to answer the rest of those questions - and I hope we find out soon.

I'm not an attorney, but my understanding was that the defense has no legal obligation to disclose where a body is. To do so would implicate his own client. JB's list for DNA items would implicate his client, IMO. This was in July or Aug of 2008. Why would they want DNA if Caylee is alive? It is however illegal to tamper with evidence. So what did JB tell DC to do if he found the body? Hope we find out.

 

[Kat]

About the speciman's collected by KC (described as being collected by KC in CA's depo):

1. What date was the hair in the trunk discovered?

2. Could it be that the defense wanted to collect speciman's to test for DNA so that they would have their own DNA profile to compare to the hair?

3. However, if KC was the one that collected the specimans, can that be presented in a court of law? She not only wasn't qualified to collect a speciman she was the POI in the case.

Just some thoughts ~ I have to run out now for a family outing.

 

[3doglady]

My question is how did LE acquire JB's DNA list. Was it in the items LE took from the A home? I'm surprised JB was smart enough not to list KC and Caylee by name. Did he list the spiderman toothbrush as s tooth because he thought writing it out would be too specific and identify who and why the list was written.

 

[Oakley]

Is it possible the 'picture' is not a photo but a picture of something - such as a second list? Because I don't remember any photos being sealed (aside from the crime scene photos). Could photos have been shown to the Judge during the in camera session as being part of a contract of some sort. I know, I know, but I just hate having to think about giving up my nice neat theory

What a about the supposed 'x' rated pix that were supposed to have made George vomit? Anyone remember that?

 

[lizzysf]

What a about the supposed 'x' rated pix that were supposed to have made George vomit? Anyone remember that?

I thought George vomited when he was discussing the smell in the car during the LE interview. :waitasec:

 

[countzero]

Re: DNA samples JB has/had. Wouldn't there also be a paper trail if and when JB did any testing?

ALyons isn't exactly someone who I respect, but I cannot believe she would risk her reputation with JB doing some underhanded, possibly illegal defense work.

I don't think anything referencing DNA is what is sealed/agreed to seal.

I go with it being something KC saved from Caylee's murder. Like a photo of the woods. Then again, I still am on that fence but I hear that bus rolling closing to CA/GA. Then I think, well if that's the case ..... SA knows without a doubt, JB knows without a doubt, CA/GA/BC know without a doubt but none of them talk to the others about it (think that 800 lb gorilla in the room) who's gonna flinch first?

I tell ya what I see happening: KC will roll on CA, CA will roll on KC, KC and CA/LA will all roll on GA since GA had offered up his life for KC. Then who the hell-o do ya convict???? All of them and they do minimum time.

Watch BC negotiate the book and movie deals within the next nine months with alternate endings to be given at the start of the trial.

 

[celticthyme]

Regarding post #148 on this thread where The " tooth / toothbrush" issue comes up, I just remembered reading in one of the depositions, and I think it was Lee's, that on the night of July 15th, after the police had come and he went over to TL's place to pick up Casey's things, among the things he picked up was CAYLEE'S BACKPACK,( and I'll go back & try to find that), but could this backpack be part of the isuue her and what was in it? And why would that backpack be there and not with Caylee?

I was shocked to read that, and meant to go back to that.

 

[3doglady]

I thought George vomited when he was discussing the smell in the car during the LE interview. :waitasec:

That was my impression also. JB asked for the pb pictures to be sealed, I think he said they were inflammatory. JS released them later. We had already seen those pictures. No pictures were sealed that I am aware of.

 

[magic-cat]

What a about the supposed 'x' rated pix that were supposed to have made George vomit? Anyone remember that?

I do. The FBI is who was telling George about them, if I recall correctly, and they said there were MANY, like over a thousand I think, and they showed KC in some very compromising positions...then GA threw up after viewing these pictures...???Anyone else recall for sure if he threw up when discussing the decomp or was it after viewing these pictures or did he throw up twice?:waitasec:

 

[3doglady]

Re: DNA samples JB has/had. Wouldn't there also be a paper trail if and when JB did any testing?

ALyons isn't exactly someone who I respect, but I cannot believe she would risk her reputation with JB doing some underhanded, possibly illegal defense work.

I don't think anything referencing DNA is what is sealed/agreed to seal.

I go with it being something KC saved from Caylee's murder. Like a photo of the woods. Then again, I still am on that fence but I hear that bus rolling closing to CA/GA. Then I think, well if that's the case ..... SA knows without a doubt, JB knows without a doubt, CA/GA/BC know without a doubt but none of them talk to the others about it (think that 800 lb gorilla in the room) who's gonna flinch first?

I tell ya what I see happening: KC will roll on CA, CA will roll on KC, KC and CA/LA will all roll on GA since GA had offered up his life for KC. Then who the hell-o do ya convict???? All of them and they do minimum time.

Watch BC negotiate the book and movie deals within the next nine months with alternate endings to be given at the start of the trial.

The list was written while KC was out on bond. AL was not with the defense at that time. I don't think there is anything illegal about the list. Cindy was allowed to answer what items were on the list but not why or how she knew to collect them. This is the way Ashton settled the objections:" Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer to the physical items. Because the question was what items were given, rather than AN EXPLANATION OF WHY"

JB doesn't want anyone to know that he wrote the list because then the question would be why did he want DNA in July of 2008. Answer because he already knew Caylee was dead.

 

[The World According]

Please help me remember, but didn't his DAUGHTER , who was working at his law office at the time, arrange deals between ABC and Casey? (Early on in the case, I have to look through my notes.)http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1677910/Cindy-Anthony-Cell-Phone

 

[The World According]

I do. The FBI is who was telling George about them, if I recall correctly, and they said there were MANY, like over a thousand I think, and they showed KC in some very compromising positions...then GA threw up after viewing these pictures...???Anyone else recall for sure if he threw up when discussing the decomp or was it after viewing these pictures or did he throw up twice?:waitasec:

I remember seeing some very explicit oral sex photos but there was some question if they were actually Casey, but I remember for certain a montage of photos of Casey that had suggestive little quirks printed on them , like Baby I've got moves you've never even seen before! and I remember commenting at the time, it looked like a sleazy ad for sex. Ironic now that George wants to say he believes that Tony is not only a dope dealer but a pimp and that he never felt Jesse, a preacher's son, was not good enough for his daughter. The whole world has gone mad!

 

[whiteangora]

Respectfully snipped.

I think you might be on to something here, TE.

Why did the defense need that DNA testing done? I've been scratching my head over that. :waitasec:

Some fuel for this particular fire:

Anyway, that DNA testing would have been done in early October. Sometime in October (I'll look for a date) Todd Black slipped and said Caylee was dead. Then November we have DC poking around for Caylee's body. Also November we have Terry L's DP document in which kidnapping/nanny wasn't mentioned even once, but said that if Caylee was dead, it was almost certainly an accident.

There are other things have been discussed that point to the defense knowing in that timeframe that Caylee was dead.

Just to add to events in your time frame, this was also when Nejame quit.

 

[Oakley]

Well, actually, she doesn't say that. She says "oh for goodness sakes". I didn't really take her to be feeling contempt as much as I believe she was showing a total disagreement with Miss Linda's statement.

My opinion on this is that Caylee can no longer be harmed and we are, in fact, in a phase where Casey's constitutional rights trump some imaginary insult to a dead person. Don't get me wrong - I think she's as guilty as she can be, but Caylee's remains being viewed by the public can't hurt Caylee. So to argue something that can impede a defense for Casey based on the humiliation??? of a dead person, to me, it is a bit of a disingenuous argument. I think that's what slipped out of Lyons' mouth.

I saw something else there too, FWIW. AL hovers over Casey like a mama duck, leaning into her, studying her face, at times, for how she is feeling about something being said. My impression is that she was feeling protective of Casey's feelings being hurt. Casey did, in fact, swallow hard and look as if she was about to cry just afterward. I may be all wet but that was my impression, again FWIW.

 

[countzero]

The list was written while KC was out on bond. AL was not with the defense at that time. I don't think there is anything illegal about the list. Cindy was allowed to answer what items were on the list but not why or how she knew to collect them. This is the way Ashton settled the objections:" Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer to the physical items. Because the question was what items were given, rather than AN EXPLANATION OF WHY"

JB doesn't want anyone to know that he wrote the list because then the question would be why did he want DNA in July of 2008. Answer because he already knew Caylee was dead.

I hear what you are saying. Guess I didn't exactly explain myself clearly. Hard to multitask with reading and typing when one is watching the Skins lose to the Chiefs. :furious:

I know the list was made while KC was out on bond. I know JB is doing a CYA job. What I don't like is the fact that ALyons appears to be aware of this and allowing it to continue.

My it reference was to the smoking gun evidence the SA has. Back in Dec we had numerous discussions about DC poking about the wooded area. More threads when the DC search videos were released. I agreed back then, DC knew Caylee was murdered and the info came from the A compound or JBs office.

We had numerous threads about the legal responsibility JB or anyone has to informing LE of the whereabouts of a deceased person. I believe the answer was no, it is not illegal. Morally, yes.

Now, after typing all this, why would the SAO, if there is evidence that JB knew PRIOR to Dec 11, 2008 that Caylee was deceased, NOT file a complaint against JB immediately.

Now, another thought has entered my brain ..... how does TMc figure into this since she was with KC except for potty breaks and those times JB was at the A compound with KC in her room behind closed doors with the stereo blasting ???? Perhaps it is something in her handwriting .........

 

[3doglady]

Maybe someone with legal knowledge can help me out here. If JB wrote the list to KC wouldn't the list itself be attorney client privilege? The objections were about the list itself not the items. Exhibit 22 was supposed to be sealed. Looks like the list is Exhibit 22 so it must have slipped by.