Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

[Kat]

I am thinking Exhibit 22 is larger than what is shown in the PDF. Ashton is saying the "top picture is sealed". Then Cindy starts to say she recognizes the handwriting on the left but not the right. So the question is what was at the top of that page? The top picture is a picture of something Casey gave Baez b/c they talk about limiting the answer to only items that Cindy had given Baez.

So they don't talk about whatever that picture was and then they continue on and they talk about what photos, videos or images Cindy observed Casey gathering to bring to Baez and he starts having a hissy fit.

So I think there are two issues here...there is a picture of something that is sealed that Casey gave to Baez and there is the issue that Casey gathered up pictures, videos, etc to take to Baez to be sold. Around that time they were also asking about Casey being in the garage alone....Cindy was adamant Casey had not been in the garage alone. Could Casey have given Baez a some duct tape from the garage?

I really like this post salvarenga! Beautiful my dear :clap:

Let's not limit ourselves yet to duct tape, let's eliminate everything else she could have removed...

But I really think your observation that KC may have taken something from the garage or may have done something while in the garage?

I love it when ya'll make me do mental calisthenics as opposed to the stupor reading depo's of the Anthony's create


ETA: The reason I'm not focusing on duct tape at this time is that duct tape very simular in type was used at the command posts.

 

[Paintr]

I always wondered why the A's immediately searched the back yard after smelling the car. Something had to lead them to that area.

I wondered this too. :waitasec: Never did hear a satisfactory explanation for the yard search.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I remember that too. I think the argument was that some "bad" pictures were taken before Caylee disappeared and would be more inflammatory than relevant.

There were many photos, and GA was warned by LE that a lot of them were 'out there' and that some were pretty awful.

 

[ThoughtElf]

The WFTV video did not have the full hearing - the last 10 minutes were chopped off (from the in camera hearing to the end).

I have it saved and watched it... after the in camera hearing, Judge S says basically that the matter is settled to his satisfaction.

Then he says "I have just one more thing. If the attorneys could approach for a sidebar."

This sidebar lasted for about 5 minutes, with Ashton, LDB, Baez and Judge S, and no record exists of it other than their memories. This is the transcript the state requested the week of July 25, right before Cindy's depo. It was not recorded by the court reporter. Afterwards is when Baez and Ashton got into it, and Judge S says he's tired of this crap (paraphrasing, of course... )

It seems like an odd sidebar, as no matters were being heard by the court. It does not seem to have anything to do with the in camera meeting about his retainer agreement with Casey.


?????

Yes, Judge Strickland did say, "This is getting old."

Remind me - did the sidebar happen before or after Judge Strickland recessed and they had the 'in camera'? He did say 'no conflict' after the in camera, then they had the

HEARING: Heated Exchange
http://www.wftv.com/video/19010429/index.html

 

[sleutherontheside]

Some new thoughts:

I just remembered something else that is sealed that I couldn't really find a record of. Dominic Casey's second interview with LE, supposedly sealed because it was "work product" for Baez.

Right before LDB gets into the line of questioning that Baez objects to, she asks Cindy if she has seen photos of the remains site. Cindy says she has seen some on the news, and also some that Dominic took and some that Joy Wray took.

Right after that, LDB asks for the exhibits to be marked, and says something about things turned over to Baez.

Could CASEY have taken pix of the remains site at some point before she was jailed? Or could something of Dominic's be tied in somehow? Some pictures he took maybe?


http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cachea0KPz7quAcJ:transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0904/08/ng.01.html+seal+%22dominic+casey%22&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

.

BBM
Yep...I guess contracts that designate him as POA or that are considered to be of an ongoing nature....could be considered as WORK PRODUCT. Although I have to wonder what "work" he has been a part of. UNLESS, because his computer, server, fax were utilized in the broker agreement and any subsequent organization of files and pics were done on site, it qualifies as work product based upon location where actual WORK took place. Perhaps this is literal interpretation at its finest.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Yes, Judge Strickland did say, "This is getting old."

Remind me - did the sidebar happen before or after Judge Strickland recessed and they had the 'in camera'? He did say 'no conflict' after the in camera, then they had the

HEARING: Heated Exchange
http://www.wftv.com/video/19010429/index.html

AFTER and OFF THE RECORD.

 

[darnudes]

Sindy is shown exhibit 22

2 examples of handwriting. One is Casey's the other she does not recognise.

The first objection Baez makes is the direction that Cindy is going in.

Cindy states;

"Suddenly it dawned on me..." I believe she is about to mention the hairbrush, the one she DIDN'T give to LE.

Baez objects. Maybe he looks at the exhibit for the first time and he realises what it is. This would be the handwriting on the right side. Maybe what Cindy is about to say is going to link somehow to that handwriting.

They go off record and then come back and the SA say they are not going to ask any more questions about that exhibit pending further adjudication.

I believe that there are 2 photos per exhibit so 4 photograps in total. Two examples of handwritting one of which they were will ask no more questions about. Then 2 photographs one of which is sealed.

The last objection was due to what Cindy saw Casey removing from the house i.e. images of Caylee, videos or photographs--this is pertaining to what was sealed by the court.

So, who's is the handwriting on the right, what is the photo that was sealed and why was Casey removing images of Caylee from the house?

 

[3doglady]

I think the objections were over two different issues. The second one was about the photos KC and JB sold. (Money for photos sealed by JS)

The first objection was about the list that CA kept trying to say that she did not recognize the handwriting. The SA is asking her to list the items she gave to JB, but she keeps going back to the list on the right side of the photo. She wants to make it clear that she had nothing to do with JB's list. This when JB starts saying NO, NO and zip it. He does not want anything on the record about that list. He does not want it known that he wrote it, not because of what is on the list but WHY he wants those items. Ashton finally settles it by saying this: " Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer to the physical items. Because the question was what items were given, rather than AN EXPLANATION OF WHY" So Ashton let the cat out of the bag without JB catching it. So the question is WHY did JB write the list. Why did JB want Caylee's DNA? What was he going to compare it to? This was long before Caylee was found. Did he want the items to prevent LE from getting Caylee's DNA? Did he want the DNA to compare because he knew where Caylee was? Maybe JB meant toothbrush when he wrote tooth on the list. AT one point CA said the toothbrush was in KC's backpack and JB objected and they went off record again.

The fact that JB wanted Caylee's DNA that soon shows that he knew Caylee was dead. That would be Attorney Client privilege so wouldn't anything that revealed that be sealed?

 

[kew17]

I'll just include this here:

Great job! I've been playing with this and think I may have come up with a couple, too.

The first unknown (under straw) is cup
The second unknown (under bibs) is (wash cloth band aid) with saliva written again to the left in front of the parenthesis
I'm having a hard time with the last line, too. It's two words. The could have a / between them or maybe parenthesis? Could earphone be the last word? I dunno.

ETA: Oh, also I noticed that on the page to the left (where the list is quite legible) spiderman toothbrush is added as an afterthought, smaller and to the right.

I think the last two words on the right side page are "room temperature"

 

[ThoughtElf]

AFTER and OFF THE RECORD.

Thank you kindly, SOTS. Appreciate the quick answer.

I'm just reading the thread from the motion hearing on March 25th and several of us speculated at the time that Judge strickland might have ruled 'no conflict' for one of two reasons, neither of which lessen the sting in Casey selling artifacts to finance this farce:

1. If Casey has a document stating that SHE is still in control of pics, videos, etc., then no conflict exists for JB
2. If JB told in camera who a possible 'mystery benefactor' is, then there is also no conflict for JB

In either instance, it's still likely something that JB really, really doesn't want out there as public knowledge. So... I am still leaning towards the big 'zip it' reaction being a document or contract of some sort that relates to sales of something.

Remember Ashton began that whole statement that they saw a real minefield ahead in this case, and suspected that Judge Strickland saw it coming, too. They really wanted JB on the record - which he did do in camera.

Worst part is, Casey could easily have long since signed over any rights to her parents, an agent, who knows. I doubt it especially considering JB's reaction in August, but it is possible.

 

[Muzikman]

I think the objections were over two different issues. The second one was about the photos KC and JB sold. (Money for photos sealed by JS)

The first objection was about the list that CA kept trying to say that she did not recognize the handwriting. The SA is asking her to list the items she gave to JB, but she keeps going back to the list on the right side of the photo. She wants to make it clear that she had nothing to do with JB's list. This when JB starts saying NO, NO and zip it. He does not want anything on the record about that list. He does not want it known that he wrote it, not because of what is on the list but WHY he wants those items. Ashton finally settles it by saying this: " Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer to the physical items. Because the question was what items were given, rather than AN EXPLANATION OF WHY" So Ashton let the cat out of the bag without JB catching it. So the question is WHY did JB write the list. Why did JB want Caylee's DNA? What was he going to compare it to? This was long before Caylee was found. Did he want the items to prevent LE from getting Caylee's DNA? Did he want the DNA to compare because he knew where Caylee was? Maybe JB meant toothbrush when he wrote tooth on the list. AT one point CA said the toothbrush was in KC's backpack and JB objected and they went off record again.

The fact that JB wanted Caylee's DNA that soon shows that he knew Caylee was dead. That would be Attorney Client privilege so wouldn't anything that revealed that be sealed?

GREAT analysis, 3D! :clap:

I think you may have hit the nail on the head!

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I am thinking Exhibit 22 is larger than what is shown in the PDF. Ashton is saying the "top picture is sealed". Then Cindy starts to say she recognizes the handwriting on the left but not the right. So the question is what was at the top of that page? The top picture is a picture of something Casey gave Baez b/c they talk about limiting the answer to only items that Cindy had given Baez.

So they don't talk about whatever that picture was and then they continue on and they talk about what photos, videos or images Cindy observed Casey gathering to bring to Baez and he starts having a hissy fit.

So I think there are two issues here...there is a picture of something that is sealed that Casey gave to Baez and there is the issue that Casey gathered up pictures, videos, etc to take to Baez to be sold. Around that time they were also asking about Casey being in the garage alone....Cindy was adamant Casey had not been in the garage alone. Could Casey have given Baez a some duct tape from the garage?[/QUOTE]

That was my very first thought...because the immediate question LindaDB asks after they all have their litle scuffle...is "Did you ever have duct tape in your home" or something to that effect. I think it was her way of getting a point across. I think CA probably witnessed KC gathering stuff up for JB and duct tape was among those items. Perhaps the sealed picture was that of the skull with duct tape - I believe they said it was sealed by agreement. Probably because they would not be so cruel as to put that in front of CA at her depo (even though they will be presented at trial). The list was probably in JB's writing telling KC what to bring from home....duct tape being the most incriminating.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I love this thread. Y'all are good!

Lots to think about.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I think the objections were over two different issues. The second one was about the photos KC and JB sold. (Money for photos sealed by JS)

The first objection was about the list that CA kept trying to say that she did not recognize the handwriting. The SA is asking her to list the items she gave to JB, but she keeps going back to the list on the right side of the photo. She wants to make it clear that she had nothing to do with JB's list. This when JB starts saying NO, NO and zip it. He does not want anything on the record about that list. He does not want it known that he wrote it, not because of what is on the list but WHY he wants those items. Ashton finally settles it by saying this: " Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer to the physical items. Because the question was what items were given, rather than AN EXPLANATION OF WHY" So Ashton let the cat out of the bag without JB catching it. So the question is WHY did JB write the list. Why did JB want Caylee's DNA? What was he going to compare it to? This was long before Caylee was found. Did he want the items to prevent LE from getting Caylee's DNA? Did he want the DNA to compare because he knew where Caylee was? Maybe JB meant toothbrush when he wrote tooth on the list. AT one point CA said the toothbrush was in KC's backpack and JB objected and they went off record again.

The fact that JB wanted Caylee's DNA that soon shows that he knew Caylee was dead. That would be Attorney Client privilege so wouldn't anything that revealed that be sealed?

I like the way you are thinking.

My only disagreement is that I believe it is not legal for an attorney to represent that a client is 'innocent', if they are certain of guilt. They can say, "My client is not guilty," but they can't specifically cite innocence, IIRC.

Also, there is a huge ethical issue with not reporting the whereabouts of Caylee's remains if he knew - discussed and debated on many threads, especially those where it was said by DC that he was 'told not to call 911 if he found Caylee,' pressumably by JB.

That said, I wonder if you are right? I've questioned JB's ethics for many months, so this would not be a shocker or a stretch.

I am so hoping the State faught to get CA back in to answer the rest of those questions - and I hope we find out soon.

 

[Kat]

I like the way you are thinking.

My only disagreement is that I believe it is not legal for an attorney to represent that a client is 'innocent', if they are certain of guilt. They can say, "My client is not guilty," but they can't specifically cite innocence, IIRC.

Also, there is a huge ethical issue with not reporting the whereabouts of Caylee's remains if he knew - discussed and debated on many threads, especially those where it was said by DC that he was 'told not to call 911 if he found Caylee,' pressumably by JB.

That said, I wonder if you are right? I've questioned JB's ethics for many months, so this would not be a shocker or a stretch.

I am so hoping the State faught to get CA back in to answer the rest of those questions - and I hope we find out soon.

Bolded by me.

You and the SA office too. I think they are looking to nail him of ethics violations also, not because of dirty dealing on their part, but dirty dealing on his part. I think they have his number and they are looking for a way to call him out. JMHO.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Bolded by me.

You and the SA office too. I think they are looking to nail him of ethics violations also, not because of dirty dealing on their part, but dirty dealing on his part. I think they have his number and they are looking for a way to call him out. JMHO.

Let us not forget that JB employed / consulted an ethics attorney early on in this case.

 

[Luzer]

Let us not forget that JB employed / consulted an ethics attorney early on in this case.

Too bad it didn't take.

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

CA wants to make awfully sure the prosecution knows the ONLY doc she's seen is the first. She's says and just for the record, the only document I recognize on this is...

Baez does not want her to say I do not recognize the one on the right...because that's not the same as her previously saying I recognize KC's writing but don't recognize the writing on the right. That's semi alright in JB's mind b'cuz he can argue well, not recognizing the writing does not mean you never saw the doc.

CA wants to finish up and says 'no, I just want to make sure because...'

Because why??? JB does not want her to say and stops her by saying Cindy, no, no

What is the bombshell about this doc. I know we're all trying to figure out and...we will, I have no doubt!

 

[ThoughtElf]

Bolded by me.

You and the SA office too. I think they are looking to nail him of ethics violations also, not because of dirty dealing on their part, but dirty dealing on his part. I think they have his number and they are looking for a way to call him out. JMHO.

Oooh Kat, thanks for bringing this up. I was on hiatus when the news came in that the FL bar had released JB on two of the complaints against him (this past summer), but at the time I thought to myself, "Still doens't mean he didn't tell DC not to call 911. All it means is that it couldn't be proven."

I mean, unless recorded on tape in a meeting or during aphone call, then it would just be a 'he said/he said,' between JB & DC to begin with. Plus, by the time the Bar would have depo'd DC, ya know darn well some one would have gotten him to change his tune and 'forget' the details. either CA or with some $$.

If I sound pessimistic, it is because I am. And I believe the State does have something that they find offensive to Caylee, the way JB is handling this case & especially to their profession as lawyers.

Don't forget, Judge Strickland even filed a complaint against JB, and most of the legal advisors on here were all in agreement that it is very rare for a Judge to do so - especially while a case is still ongoing.

There aren't enough baggies in FL for JB to use to clean up all the messes he's left in his own back yard. And you know you just shouldn't **** where you eat.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Let us not forget that JB employed / consulted an ethics attorney early on in this case.

And you just have to ask yourself, "Now why would he do that?"

Unfortunately, whatever advice he received has allowed him to just squeek by so far on all the complaints.

So far.