Small Details that are interesting in the Cooper Harris case, #1

[Evie Ivy Over]

Ross said he buckled Cooper in very tightly, because, as he told police, he was very concerned for Cooper's safety. I believe he mentioned he had taken a safety course or some such thing. He spent a lot of time lauding his own awareness of carseat safety to the police. A lot.

OTOH, maybe Cooper wasn't buckled in at all. Ross isn't the most truthful guy.

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

 

[Virgoedge]

o/t Did anyone ever see Ross' facebook before it went down?

I looked at it the night this all happened (and have kicked myself ever since for not getting any screenshots). My impression of it was first- dude takes a lot of selfies. (Boy, did that turn out to be the understatement of the year!) and that the rest of the stuff was pretty benign. I don't remember a lot of specifics other than a picture of 2 home depot patches that he said were awards and made some statement like "It's been 2 years! And they still haven't gotten rid of me!". I then went to LH's facebook page and IIRC, there was very little activity on it from her. I don't remember any pictures of her with friends.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm sorry, but everyone responds to horror differently. My dad couldn't bear to see his mother in the coffin- wouldn't go near her- while I needed to feel her skin, to cry on her chest and know she was gone.

It's just not fair to judge others for the way in which they respond to trauma and agony. People who live in conflict and war zones have a broad range of psychological responses to death. Some girls respond to being raped by getting a gun and deciding never again to trust a man, while other girls respond to being raped by internalizing the violation and giving their bodies to any man because they don't believe their bodies belong to them anymore.

Please don't oversimplify the human psyche when it comes to tragedy and trauma. I know it hurts to think of Cooper's death and I know it might make us feel better to see LH or RH pulling their hair out, wailing, and crying. But I also know that a good sociopath would have been grieving with lots of drama and public crying- a good sociopath would be giving us the grief we want to see in RH. So, maybe, at least this suggests RH is not a sociopath?

I'm sorry but I disagree with your post on so many levels.

 

[blue22]

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

Well, simply because he either didn't lie, or forgot to lie about this. (Actually, I think he didn't realize the act about pretending to care about Cooper's safety would backfire.) Stoddard said on stand it was at the lowest setting.

The lowest setting would be the tightest.

 

[Bratislava]

With all due respect, it is fair to judge reactions when a man is sitting in jail for the murder of his child.

You can judge all you want- I'm just saying it's not going to get you closer to the truth.

 

[EvilSoup]

I'm sorry, but everyone responds to horror differently. My dad couldn't bear to see his mother in the coffin- wouldn't go near her- while I needed to feel her skin, to cry on her chest and know she was gone.

It's just not fair to judge others for the way in which they respond to trauma and agony. People who live in conflict and war zones have a broad range of psychological responses to death. Some girls respond to being raped by getting a gun and deciding never again to trust a man, while other girls respond to being raped by internalizing the violation and giving their bodies to any man because they don't believe their bodies belong to them anymore.

Please don't oversimplify the human psyche when it comes to tragedy and trauma. I know it hurts to think of Cooper's death and I know it might make us feel better to see LH or RH pulling their hair out, wailing, and crying. But I also know that a good sociopath would have been grieving with lots of drama and public crying- a good sociopath would be giving us the grief we want to see in RH. So, maybe, at least this suggests RH is not a sociopath?

Respectfully, we are talking about one's own child,here. A baby. Not embalmed and in a casket.

I cannot imagine any parent removing their child from the car, laying them on the ground and then stepping away to make a few calls. IMO, this is not a difference in grief processing.

 

[EvilSoup]

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

I don't believe Ross any farther than I could throw him. But you seem to, so I thought you might believe his statement over that of the LE officers who were on the scene. Which is why I posted that.

In this case, both Ross and the police seem to be on the same page.

I, myself, will believe the cops, not some urinal-selfie loser. But that's just me.

Is there some reason you question a unanimous statement from all sides claiming that Cooper was buckled in his carseat?

 

[Linda7NJ]

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

I wouldn't believe a single word that came out of his mouth WITHOUT corroboration .... It's been corroborated.


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[hopingicanhelp]

I'm sorry, but everyone responds to horror differently. My dad couldn't bear to see his mother in the coffin- wouldn't go near her- while I needed to feel her skin, to cry on her chest and know she was gone.

It's just not fair to judge others for the way in which they respond to trauma and agony. People who live in conflict and war zones have a broad range of psychological responses to death. Some girls respond to being raped by getting a gun and deciding never again to trust a man, while other girls respond to being raped by internalizing the violation and giving their bodies to any man because they don't believe their bodies belong to them anymore.

Please don't oversimplify the human psyche when it comes to tragedy and trauma. I know it hurts to think of Cooper's death and I know it might make us feel better to see LH or RH pulling their hair out, wailing, and crying. But I also know that a good sociopath would have been grieving with lots of drama and public crying- a good sociopath would be giving us the grief we want to see in RH. So, maybe, at least this suggests RH is not a sociopath?

I hear you, but I'm judging his reactions in relation to everything else -- all the other information we have -- and we don't have it all.

If that were the ONLY thing, I'd still be on the fence -- but I can tell you as an "empath" you MUST step back and see the total picture. If I didn't do that, and I excused every speck of dust that added up to a mountain, I'd never think anyone was guilty of anything -- but that's just me.

I could be wrong, but in my time here on WS (even just lurking) I can tell you our fellow posters have seen a LOT of stuff and are quick to toss out things based purely on emotion -- they might say their hinky meter is dinging, but without further information / evidence release to support their suspicions, they let it go for the most part... imo.

I do appreciate your posts because you think a lot of the EXACT same things I do when first approaching a case.... what if, what if, what if... always giving the benefit of the doubt, and I waffle for a long time usually before deciding to finally post -- I appreciate your courage, I just want to state that believe it or not, most of us revisit subjective topics as they come up again -- not because we consider it the end-all path to conviction, kwim?

 

[Bratislava]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he said "around 30 seconds" and not "exactly 30 seconds, he was sitting in his car."

This can be talked in circles, but it's an incredible mountain out of a mole hill. I really hope common sense in regards to this starts to prevail

Too bad that so many viewers, including myself, were deeply disturbed by the 30 seconds and this 30 seconds influenced my perception of RH's guilt.

Look, I don't like witnesses who play around with facts and treat them like they don't have an absolute relationship to reality. Time on a video camera is absolute- not relative. Common sense is not exaggerating on the witness stand. I, too, hope this prevails.

 

[EvilSoup]

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

My bad. I forgot to include a sarcasm alert in my OP.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yep. Of course. Le is totally more important than my flesh and blood. Yeppers. Come one now.

What I am saying is he has NO interest in HELPING law enforcement help his son. He had an attitude and was pissed the cop was asking him questions at all. No, I would not do THAT. I would do any damn little thing I could to help LE if my son was dead. And you better believe I would call freaking 911, and not leave my precious child on the dirty, oily. scalding concrete with a total stranger. No, I would not walk away from my only child and make some calls. No way would I act like a total brat and cuss at a cop, because I am mad to be asked questions.

Do you really think he'd say that to a man? Nope

Me neither.

I wouldn't have left my dog laying there with strangers like that.


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[hopingicanhelp]

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

I get the contradiction you're pointing out -- but RH made a point to be heard during LE interviews on this particular matter -- he wanted to stress what a wonderful father he was because he "strapped him in tight" and kissed him "just in case" when questions regarding any of those matters had not been asked.

It goes back to the point of "saying too much" -- RH was eager to get out of there and volunteer all evidence necessary to prove his status as super-dad -- "heck no I didn't know he was in the car because I'm such a super-dad and by the way this was my wife's nightmare and I was so worried I searched about it and watched a video.... but I still forgot."

There are SO many contradictions in what RH says that he has to be lying SOME of the time... that is what we all are getting at... imo

 

[Bratislava]

I hear you, but I'm judging his reactions in relation to everything else -- all the other information we have -- and we don't have it all.

If that were the ONLY thing, I'd still be on the fence -- but I can tell you as an "empath" you MUST step back and see the total picture. If I didn't do that, and I excused every speck of dust that added up to a mountain, I'd never think anyone was guilty of anything -- but that's just me.

I could be wrong, but in my time here on WS (even just lurking) I can tell you our fellow posters have seen a LOT of stuff and are quick to toss out things based purely on emotion -- they might say their hinky meter is dinging, but without further information / evidence release to support their suspicions, they let it go for the most part... imo.

I do appreciate your posts because you think a lot of the EXACT same things I do when first approaching a case.... what if, what if, what if... always giving the benefit of the doubt, and I waffle for a long time usually before deciding to finally post -- I appreciate your courage, I just want to state that believe it or not, most of us revisit subjective topics as they come up again -- not because we consider it the end-all path to conviction, kwim?

Thank you for talking me down. I'm sorry- I was getting upset because I'm one of those people who was a kid with a strong sense of justice and fairness. If RH lies, he's a liar. If Stoddard lies, he's a liar. I feel like, sometimes, we choose the truth and then try to make it come true. And that makes me feel that hot-necked bristle of watching bullies pick on cats and dogs when I was a kid. To this day, I have no tolerance for bullying or unfairness. People like you- who see straight through me - remind me to take a deep breath.

 

[blue22]

Too bad that so many viewers, including myself, were deeply disturbed by the 30 seconds and this 30 seconds influenced my perception of RH's guilt.

Look, I don't like witnesses who play around with facts and treat them like they don't have an absolute relationship to reality. Time on a video camera is absolute- not relative. Common sense is not exaggerating on the witness stand. I, too, hope this prevails.

I think it's hilarious that people find it to be exaggerating.

With that said, even 2 seconds would be too long. How it even possible to not be disturbed by ANY time frame?

 

[blue22]

You can judge all you want- I'm just saying it's not going to get you closer to the truth.

I'm not on a jury. I have no need to remain impartial.

Behavior is always something that is a factor at trial. It will always be judged in a court of law.

 

[TorisMom003]

Too bad that so many viewers, including myself, were deeply disturbed by the 30 seconds and this 30 seconds influenced my perception of RH's guilt.

Look, I don't like witnesses who play around with facts and treat them like they don't have an absolute relationship to reality. Time on a video camera is absolute- not relative. Common sense is not exaggerating on the witness stand. I, too, hope this prevails.

This AJC article where they claim to have seen the video for themselves has not been verified as being the truth. So then, how do we know that the AJC writers and Harris' brother are not the ones that are exaggerating when they say that it was only about 15 seconds? Simply put, we don't. Now when the trial comes about and the video is played in court, then the truth will come out. However, to take the word of a journalist and a brother of a suspect over the word of LE that is testifying under oath [modsnip]. But then that's just me.

MOO

 

[EvilSoup]

You can judge all you want- I'm just saying it's not going to get you closer to the truth.

You may be right re: judging. However QUESTIONING can most certainly get us closer to the truth.

Many of us are questioning the veracity of most everything out of Ross' mouth.

I am also judging him. I have judged him to be a self-absorbed pig.

But that is separate from questioning his actions regarding Cooper.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

But what I'm finding odd is that RH was faced with a shockingly horrible, gruesome, tragic death of his beloved son RIGHT THERE. The visual, and olfactory image/smell of this dead toddler, his injuries, the rigor mortis, was beyond the pale---strangers were even taking action to perform CPR. I haven't heard that RH even tried to call 911. Most parents would be hyper focused on the here and now and in extreme urgency given the horrific event; most parents would be connected to the scene of this death in the present moment and to the dead toddler--both emotionally, and attentively. The immediate focus of the child, the immediate circumstances, and everything related geographically to that immediate area would be paramount is what I would expect from a parent.
Innate Focus => his dead son and what help he can obtain from LE or anyone who is RIGHT THERE.
The urgency and importance is right there in the immediate scene.
This was no little fender-bender. This was no trip and fall.
THIS WAS DEATH.

Nothing on RH's phone is going to be helpful or important in that scene. Call daycare---for what? To tell them CH wasn't going to be attending anymore? And then to start cursing LE as if they are annoying him (RH)? Really?

Yeah, there are variables that people may experience when they discover their child dead but RH's behavior was very weird. And we may all get to see it if they let the video out.

Call daycare to tell them CH wasn't going to be attending anymore?? My goodness...I was thinking more along the lines of reaching LH, or someone close to her to have her contact him as soon as she arrived, etc., etc.

What you expect from people is not always what you're going to get!!! Men have a tendency to handle their anxiety/depression by getting angry--cursing at a cop doesn't give me a sense of hidden meanings or ulterior motives, and was not out of the realm of reasonable expectations in this situation, IMO.

BTW...the witnesses said he had asked one of the first people who came over to his car when he stopped to call 911. I would have felt an URGENT NEED to contact the mother of my dead child in that situation...and would have had a HUGE problem with anyone who got in the way of that. Because he didn't fall into the expected heap-on-the-ground doesn't tell me that he wasn't totally freaking out--he saw his son, he knew his son was dead, and he freaked out. So much so that he had to be restrained by cops.

But, at the end of this day, we're all forming theories--theories based on small bits of information molded to fit our perceptions of what really happened.

 

[tlcya]

That's the thing...it seems like we believe RH in some cases, but not in others....

I only believe RH on the carseat strapping because I cannot imaging Cooper would not have climbed/crawled out of that seat and been all over that car trying to figure out where daddy went and how to get out and find him. That and the scratches to face and the abrasions to the back of his head. Those tell me that child could not move. Period.