Small Details that are interesting in the Cooper Harris case, #2

[LisaB]

I really don't think the "majority" of hot car deaths are intentional.

A poster in another thread indicated that this is almost exclusively a U.S. problem, and that made me wonder, If that was true, then it would seem that the majority ARE intentional, with parents seeing others get away with it and then copy-catting.

HOWEVER... there is a document online at: http://www.childsafetyeurope.org/publications/info/factsheets/children-in-cars.pdf

which states:
How common is it?

Between 2007 and 2009, there were 26 such cases of hyperthermia in France and Belgium, including 7 fatalities. 54% of the parents had intentionally left the child in the car, 46% had simply forgotten to drop the child off.

In Israel between 2004 and 2008 there were four fatal cases, and in 2008 alone, 19 non-fatal cases.

Netherlands, Iceland and Hungary have all reported recent fatal cases.

In the United States an average of 36 children die from hyperthermia each year, for a total of 468 deaths over the last 12 years.

 

[PaperDoll]

Once again I'm repeating myself here :crazy: I just don't understand how a parent can forget their child in the car?? I understand that people get distracted, but they are not that distracted that they forget where they are going because they arrived to their destination, then they forget their child is in the car. I mean didn't it take some effort to put your child in a car seat? Didn't it take effort and time to get them dressed and out of the house? Then you arrive at your destination because you knew that is where you were going in the first place then they forget about their child???? Does it ever register at some point that their child isn't with them and perhaps they may have forgotten them?

 

[JLSChook]

I really don't think the "majority" of hot car deaths are intentional.

Maybe not premeditated murder, but they are all intentional neglect. Nobody will EVER convince me that one can "forget" a child. And the idiots that leave their kids in the car "for a minute" to go shop, are just as neglectful.

Every time I see "Forgotten Baby Syndrome", it makes me wanna puke! I don't care how much so-called research is out there on this farce, IMO, people shouldn't be anywhere near a child if they can forget they have them in the first place. :gaah:

/end rant

 

[mymadori]

I am a mother of a 5. My oldest is 19, my youngest is 10 months. Sadly, I have to admit I HAVE forgotten my child in the car twice. Once, I was running to the grocery store with two of my kids. One was about 3, the other was about 6 months. As I got the 3 year old out of the car, he darted into the street. I panicked, grabbed him, and then in my stressed out state, forgot to grab the 6 month old until about 10 minutes after I'd gotten in the store. Thank God she was okay. The second time I came home from work, and realized I had forgot to pick up milk, which I needed for dinner. I ran inside to grab something, and left the baby in the car in the garage just while I went in real quick. When I got into the house, my hubby told me he had actually picked up milk already, and so I sat down...completely forgetting the baby in the car. About 5 minutes later, I realized it.

I swear I'm not an awful, terrible, no good, very bad mother. I love my children immensely and would never ever do anything to harm them. It IS possible to forget a child in the car, though I don't at all believe that's the case in this situation.

I have my own theory that the mother really wasn't involved...that the 6 minute phone call was placed by RH to LH just so he can pretend to think he dropped baby off. For example "Hi Honey, I just wanted to remind you I'm going to the movies with so and so, so I guess I'll see you and CH when I get home tonight. How was your day?"...kills time...acts normal... and that's why LH said that RH leaving baby in the car was the only explanation.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am a mother of a 5. My oldest is 19, my youngest is 10 months. Sadly, I have to admit I HAVE forgotten my child in the car twice. Once, I was running to the grocery store with two of my kids. One was about 3, the other was about 6 months. As I got the 3 year old out of the car, he darted into the street. I panicked, grabbed him, and then in my stressed out state, forgot to grab the 6 month old until about 10 minutes after I'd gotten in the store. Thank God she was okay. The second time I came home from work, and realized I had forgot to pick up milk, which I needed for dinner. I ran inside to grab something, and left the baby in the car in the garage just while I went in real quick. When I got into the house, my hubby told me he had actually picked up milk already, and so I sat down...completely forgetting the baby in the car. About 5 minutes later, I realized it.

I swear I'm not an awful, terrible, no good, very bad mother. I love my children immensely and would never ever do anything to harm them. It IS possible to forget a child in the car, though I don't at all believe that's the case in this situation.

I have my own theory that the mother really wasn't involved...that the 6 minute phone call was placed by RH to LH just so he can pretend to think he dropped baby off. For example "Hi Honey, I just wanted to remind you I'm going to the movies with so and so, so I guess I'll see you and CH when I get home tonight. How was your day?"...kills time...acts normal... and that's why LH said that RH leaving baby in the car was the only explanation.

Huge difference between 7 hours and 10 minutes.
IMO
I've forgotten my own for a few minutes.

 

[matou]

I am a mother of a 5. My oldest is 19, my youngest is 10 months. Sadly, I have to admit I HAVE forgotten my child in the car twice. Once, I was running to the grocery store with two of my kids. One was about 3, the other was about 6 months. As I got the 3 year old out of the car, he darted into the street. I panicked, grabbed him, and then in my stressed out state, forgot to grab the 6 month old until about 10 minutes after I'd gotten in the store. Thank God she was okay. The second time I came home from work, and realized I had forgot to pick up milk, which I needed for dinner. I ran inside to grab something, and left the baby in the car in the garage just while I went in real quick. When I got into the house, my hubby told me he had actually picked up milk already, and so I sat down...completely forgetting the baby in the car. About 5 minutes later, I realized it.

I swear I'm not an awful, terrible, no good, very bad mother. I love my children immensely and would never ever do anything to harm them. It IS possible to forget a child in the car, though I don't at all believe that's the case in this situation.

I have my own theory that the mother really wasn't involved...that the 6 minute phone call was placed by RH to LH just so he can pretend to think he dropped baby off. For example "Hi Honey, I just wanted to remind you I'm going to the movies with so and so, so I guess I'll see you and CH when I get home tonight. How was your day?"...kills time...acts normal... and that's why LH said that RH leaving baby in the car was the only explanation.

You are an awesome mother! You remembered your babies. This IMO is not the same as what occurred with RH. He shut his brain off completely to Cooper. As your children's mother, you always have your radar on. You realized what happened and acted immediately. xoxo

 

[mymadori]

Huge difference between 7 hours and 10 minutes.
IMO
I've forgotten my own for a few minutes.

Agreed. That said, being home is what triggered me to remember baby the second time. The first time, seeing another baby in the store is what triggered it. In the case where something similar happens at work... I am not so sure what would trigger me and what it would take.

 

[Donjeta]

Agreed. That said, being home is what triggered me to remember baby the second time. The first time, seeing another baby in the store is what triggered it. In the case where something similar happens at work... I am not so sure what would trigger me and what it would take.

I think it's pretty odd that he wasn't triggered by the email from the daycare and sending the text for his wife to pick Cooper up from daycare

 

[Tawny]

Triggers only work if you actually truly forgot your child, rather than intentionally left him/her.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think it's pretty odd that he wasn't triggered by the email from the daycare and sending the text for his wife to pick Cooper up from daycare

Agreed! Unless....he remembered about Cooper during the day, after it was too late to save him, and didn't open the email because RH couldn't face what he did.

It could be he regularly ignored mass emails from LAA if they were "generic" type emails. ??

Do you recall when the email was sent? Morning or afternoon?

 

[gngr~snap]

Oh me Oh my, What term will be coined next to make wrong doing seem some what excusable. Forgotten baby syndrome, hmmm Forgotten that I'm married syndrome, Forgotten to wear a condom syndrome, Forgotten to wipe my arse syndrome, forgotten to go to work syndrome, forgotten to have morals syndrome, what will it be next? Just another excuse. But as I see it we will ALL be diagnosed with something before it's over. He didn't forget. jmo

jjenny beat me to it.
like affluenza? gmafb

All posts are MOO

 

[mymadori]

In the words of Obama... "let me be clear"...

I do NOT believe RH accidentally left his baby in the car. I was simply responding to the two posters above me who said they didn't understand how anyone can ever claim to have forgotten their child in the car. I have done it myself, so I know it to be possible. In this case, I don't think it was a case of forgetting.

Does anyone know if LH received contact from the daycare as well or was it only RH?

I really, REALLY want to believe LH wasn't involved. I am still on top of that fence.

 

[Tink]

I think it's pretty odd that he wasn't triggered by the email from the daycare and sending the text for his wife to pick Cooper up from daycare

Yet there was that earlier case where the car alarm went off repeatedly and the dad just turned off the alarm repeatedly. I would have thought THAT would have triggered him to think about his baby, but it didn't. Our minds work in odd ways sometimes.

 

[nosysw]

I am a mother of a 5. My oldest is 19, my youngest is 10 months. Sadly, I have to admit I HAVE forgotten my child in the car twice. Once, I was running to the grocery store with two of my kids. One was about 3, the other was about 6 months. As I got the 3 year old out of the car, he darted into the street. I panicked, grabbed him, and then in my stressed out state, forgot to grab the 6 month old until about 10 minutes after I'd gotten in the store. Thank God she was okay. The second time I came home from work, and realized I had forgot to pick up milk, which I needed for dinner. I ran inside to grab something, and left the baby in the car in the garage just while I went in real quick. When I got into the house, my hubby told me he had actually picked up milk already, and so I sat down...completely forgetting the baby in the car. About 5 minutes later, I realized it.

I swear I'm not an awful, terrible, no good, very bad mother. I love my children immensely and would never ever do anything to harm them. It IS possible to forget a child in the car, though I don't at all believe that's the case in this situation.

I have my own theory that the mother really wasn't involved...that the 6 minute phone call was placed by RH to LH just so he can pretend to think he dropped baby off. For example "Hi Honey, I just wanted to remind you I'm going to the movies with so and so, so I guess I'll see you and CH when I get home tonight. How was your day?"...kills time...acts normal... and that's why LH said that RH leaving baby in the car was the only explanation.

Agreed. That said, being home is what triggered me to remember baby the second time. The first time, seeing another baby in the store is what triggered it. In the case where something similar happens at work... I am not so sure what would trigger me and what it would take.

In the words of Obama... "let me be clear"...

I do NOT believe RH accidentally left his baby in the car. I was simply responding to the two posters above me who said they didn't understand how anyone can ever claim to have forgotten their child in the car. I have done it myself, so I know it to be possible. In this case, I don't think it was a case of forgetting.

Does anyone know if LH received contact from the daycare as well or was it only RH?

I really, REALLY want to believe LH wasn't involved. I am still on top of that fence.

Thank you for your bravery. It must be really difficult to put that out there, especially given the skepticism of so many about the possibility that a decent parent could forget their child. I really appreciate your input and honesty. I agree with you 100%. It can happen, it does happen, but, like you, I don't think it happened in this case.

 

[gngr~snap]

Yet there was that earlier case where the car alarm went off repeatedly and the dad just turned off the alarm repeatedly. I would have thought THAT would have triggered him to think about his baby, but it didn't. Our minds work in odd ways sometimes.

If he had known that his car had a "you left your child in the car" alarm do you think he would have still ignored it thinking naw.. I dropped my child off, or would he check?
I have no idea. I think people would check. Research says we'd still ignore it. Maybe they are right?

All posts are MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

In the words of Obama... "let me be clear"...

I do NOT believe RH accidentally left his baby in the car. I was simply responding to the two posters above me who said they didn't understand how anyone can ever claim to have forgotten their child in the car. I have done it myself, so I know it to be possible. In this case, I don't think it was a case of forgetting.

Does anyone know if LH received contact from the daycare as well or was it only RH?

I really, REALLY want to believe LH wasn't involved. I am still on top of that fence.

I believe the daycare emailed every parent every day. If the had both emails they would email both parents. They took pictures of the kids every day as they did their activities. The emails were sent to keep the parents involved. What I do not know is if the email was from that day or the day before. Because at 1:30 the day isn't over yet. In would wonder if I opened it why my child wasn't in the pictures ,but maybe they only sent one or two and your child would not always have a picture?
I know LH often forwarded the daycare emails to a friend of hers. I forget her name.
All posts are MOO

 

[mymadori]

Thank you for your bravery. It must be really difficult to put that out there, especially given the skepticism of so many about the possibility that a decent parent could forget their child. I really appreciate your input and honesty. I agree with you 100%. It can happen, it does happen, but, like you, I don't think it happened in this case.

Yeah, I can't tell you the number of times I've read this case...which leads me to read about other hot car deaths...and I get all teary eyed thinking "That could have been MY baby". I still feel awful about it. I just worry that because of RH, many other parents who really do accidentally forget and are traumatized, grief stricken and heart broken will be looked at with anger and not pity. So scary and sad.

 

[nosysw]

Yeah, I can't tell you the number of times I've read this case...which leads me to read about other hot car deaths...and I get all teary eyed thinking "That could have been MY baby". I still feel awful about it. I just worry that because of RH, many other parents who really do accidentally forget and are traumatized, grief stricken and heart broken will be looked at with anger and not pity. So scary and sad.

Thank heavens it wasn't :hug:

When I read some of those other stories, I just can't judge those people. They are already in the worst hell imaginable. I know many don't like that sentiment, but that is how I feel.

Now, this case, on the other hand...that's a whole other story. Too many other things out of place to think this was a case of forgetting. MOO.

 

[PaperDoll]

I am a mother of a 5. My oldest is 19, my youngest is 10 months. Sadly, I have to admit I HAVE forgotten my child in the car twice. Once, I was running to the grocery store with two of my kids. One was about 3, the other was about 6 months. As I got the 3 year old out of the car, he darted into the street. I panicked, grabbed him, and then in my stressed out state, forgot to grab the 6 month old until about 10 minutes after I'd gotten in the store. Thank God she was okay. The second time I came home from work, and realized I had forgot to pick up milk, which I needed for dinner. I ran inside to grab something, and left the baby in the car in the garage just while I went in real quick. When I got into the house, my hubby told me he had actually picked up milk already, and so I sat down...completely forgetting the baby in the car. About 5 minutes later, I realized it.

I swear I'm not an awful, terrible, no good, very bad mother. I love my children immensely and would never ever do anything to harm them. It IS possible to forget a child in the car, though I don't at all believe that's the case in this situation.

I have my own theory that the mother really wasn't involved...that the 6 minute phone call was placed by RH to LH just so he can pretend to think he dropped baby off. For example "Hi Honey, I just wanted to remind you I'm going to the movies with so and so, so I guess I'll see you and CH when I get home tonight. How was your day?"...kills time...acts normal... and that's why LH said that RH leaving baby in the car was the only explanation.

The difference is: YOU REMEMBERED and it didn't take long. RH had just strapped his child in the car seat and less than a minute, with no distractions per what he told LE, forgets to take Cooper to day care.. Then goes to his car at lunch, tosses in light bulbs, goes back into work and finally discovers him while on the way to the movies? Why then and not before? IIFC he lied, he tells LE that he notices him when making a right turn, but tells others he heard choking... I'm confused! Which is it?

 

[sorrell skye]

Many years ago, my sister-in-law drove off with her youngest daughter (a baby) strapped in the car seat - on the roof of the car. My sister-in-law drove a small car (Dodge Colt). I have no idea why she put the baby on top of the car as she was getting in, but she did. I also have no idea how she could have not seen her baby on the roof of the car, or forgot that she put her up there, but she did. Apparently, as she was driving down the road, another motorist saw the baby on the roof and was honking frantically, trying to get her attention. Thankfully, she suddenly realized what she'd done and pulled over before the baby fell off the roof.

When I heard about it, all I could do was shake my head in disgust and disbelief.

My sister-in-law loved her kids and would have never intentionally subjected them to harm. But she was a scatter-brained, self-absorbed idiot. It's a miracle all her children survived to adulthood. When I had my first baby girl a few years later, she offered to babysit. I never took her up on her offer. She was offended, but I didn't care. My baby girl's safety was more important to me than my sister-in-law's hurt feelings.

Some folks aren't cut out to be parents, despite their desire to have a child. Just because someone is capable of breeding doesn't mean they should.

If a parent is so self-centered that they can truly "forget" their helpless child long enough for that child to die, then that parent deserves to be prosecuted for felony neglect. "Forgotten Baby Syndrome" is, IMO, a pathetic attempt to apologize for and legitimize criminally negligent behavior.