Sniff tests, hair decomp, really so conclusive? Fence sitters thread

[Trapshooter]

Very possible. Supposedly urine and chlorine can also create it. Like if someone threw a swim diaper in the trunk when leaving theapartment pool. But then you have to add in who had access to the laptop and was looking up the chloroform info, what kind of info exactly were they researching, when were they looking it up, etc.

Chloroform is also used in forensics supposedly, so is it possible this is how some got there (I'm not implying planting evidence, I mean just during routine forensics/research on the evidence.)

Seagull,
We are not forensic scientists so we do not have these answers. You are wanting US to say that the police planted evidence of chloroform in the trunk of the car? According to LE, there were "substantial amounts" of chloroform in the trunk, not traces, like the poster mentioned above.

Was Casey's laptop with her when she was at her boyfriend's apartment? Why does it always have to be someone else to blame and not placing the blame where it should be? On Casey!

 

[MCDRAW]

God bless your brother.

Thank you. I will say it has been one of the toughest issues we have ever had to deal with as a family.

 

[Ladytazz]

I was fence sitting up until the scientific evidence was announced. And when the FBI found significant amounts of chloroform in the trunk, and then the search term on the laptop, common sense said, "foul play!" But there are still many unanswered questions, so definitive conclusions can’t be drawn just yet.

This case is one big puzzle, and I look forward to the day when all the pieces fit together. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re just getting started!

As an aside, I hope Ann Rule considers writing another bestseller based on the facts of this case. No one would do a better job, as she’s known for writing fascinating true crime stories obout Narcissistic, Sociopathic female killers… Ann Rule rules!

I believe that Ann has stated that she doesn't write a book about a case until it has been completely resolved in a court of law. I agree this would be a great case for her.

 

[seagull65]

That's not what she told LE.

ETA: or Tony

I know that's not what she told LE, and she also told her family adamantly in the jailhouse phone call that Tony had nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance....but still...
why wouldn't LE do forensics at those apartments, I'm just surprised.

what does ETA: or Tony mean?

 

[Trapshooter]

No offense taken.
I don't know if Casey is a drug addict but if she is they are always making up lies. I just know what my family has dealt with. And we pressed charges for way less than what Casey has been charged with. So far her family has not impressed me. With Cindy's statement about TES, I have begun to wonder who is protecting who.

MCDRAW,
Any person that could make such a statement about Texas Equusearch is either evil or spinning their own web of lies! Tim Miller is doing this out of the goodness of his heart. Tim Miller is taking a crime committed against his OWN daughter and turning it into a non-profit search and rescue organization! I really thought that Cindy couldn't sink any lower, but in my opinion, she sunk to the bottom when she made that statement about TES!

 

[MCDRAW]

I dunno, RR0004... Since Casey's a pathological liar, she might pass a polygraph. I wonder what a shrink would say about that? Are there any shrinks on the board?!

I read once if someone convinces themselves they are innocent...they could pass a polygraph.

 

[MCDRAW]

MCDRAW,
Any person that could make such a statement about Texas Equusearch is either evil or spinning their own web of lies! Tim Miller is doing this out of the goodness of his heart. Tim Miller is taking a crime committed against his OWN daughter and turning it into a non-profit search and rescue organization! I really thought that Cindy couldn't sink any lower, but in my opinion, she sunk to the bottom when she made that statement about TES!

I agree!

 

[kwmred]

As regards to the Chloroform and why (I'm guessing here) someone would use it versus drugs, maybe because people that do things such as this know drugs could be detected in one's body even after death...

I was just going to post this!!!

 

[seagull65]

Seagull,
We are not forensic scientists so we do not have these answers. You are wanting US to say that the police planted evidence of chloroform in the trunk of the car? According to LE, there were "substantial amounts" of chloroform in the trunk, not traces, like the poster mentioned above.

Was Casey's laptop with her when she was at her boyfriend's apartment? Why does it always have to be someone else to blame and not placing the blame where it should be? On Casey!

Everyone knows that it's possible that Casey is responsible, but this is the thread for the alternative theories. On this thread we're questioning all the other possibilities, who were ALL the people who had access, etc.
I said clearly in my post that I am NOT saying the police planted any evidence! Please read again

 

[Pondering Mind]

You know one of the things that bother me most? The fact that I have never known of anyone who has lost a child, as I and many other posters here have (whether in death or kidnapping) who was not absolutly devastated. I realize that people react differently, but hearing that one phone call where Casey said she had to keep her composure to talk to investigators does not make sense. I ask anyone posting here with children or granchildren: Would It Even Be Possible For You To Stay Composed? For me, my world turned upside down and I wasn't composed, couldn't have been if my very life depended on it. I just wanted to die. Anybody relate?

 

[Thinaire]

I definitely do remember talk of that early on on some of the threads. I don't remember ever actually seeing a picture that showed it though. So far, all the pictures I've seen just show a healthy, happy looking child. Sometimes when people are going on about, she looks nervous in the video where she's looking at her book, she looks disturbed, her speech in the video is underdeveloped for her age, her speech is too sophisticated for her age, she looks tired, she looks abused, she looks this and that, I just have to laugh because she honestly looks perfectly normal and healthy to me. She looks healthier than a lot of toddlers you see nowadays, so many are too thin nowadays. And she is always dressed fine, clean, nicely groomed hair, etc. She looks well cared for in all the pictures.

"WAS" well cared for....

 

[seagull65]

Are you sure LE said there were substantial amounts of chloroform, and that there is definitely no possible innocent explanation? Or was it the media who misconstrued that or are just hyping it up a bit? I'm pretty sure the LE have only couched their statements in very conservative terms so far.

 

[MCDRAW]

Seagull,
We are not forensic scientists so we do not have these answers. You are wanting US to say that the police planted evidence of chloroform in the trunk of the car? According to LE, there were "substantial amounts" of chloroform in the trunk, not traces, like the poster mentioned above.

Was Casey's laptop with her when she was at her boyfriend's apartment? Why does it always have to be someone else to blame and not placing the blame where it should be? On Casey!

My problem with the chloroform search is again, I think she is being given too much credit. I just can't see her being able to follow the instructions. I would assume you would have to know a little about chemicals. I'm not saying she is innocent ( or guilty) just beginning to think she may have had help.

 

[Trapshooter]

I'm sorry Seagull but it seems to me as if you are "hoping" we will say that urine & clorox, et al, will create chloroform. Dr. Kobilinsky on Nancy Grace said this WILL NOT happen.
Please carry on with the other theories.....

 

[faefrost]

Very possible. Supposedly urine and chlorine can also create it. Like if someone threw a swim diaper in the trunk when leaving theapartment pool. But then you have to add in who had access to the laptop and was looking up the chloroform info, what kind of info exactly were they researching, when were they looking it up, etc.

Chloroform is also used in forensics supposedly, so is it possible this is how some got there (I'm not implying planting evidence, I mean just during routine forensics/research on the evidence.)

Several experts have come forward today to emphatically state that the chloroform vapors that the FBI detected in the trunk could only come from manufactured pure comercially available chloroform. The vapors could not come from an accidental mixing such as you describe. (I believe an accidental mixing would also release chlorine gas, which would be detectable. (and which was not detected) For the ammount of chloroform vapor they detected, there would have been enough chlorine released to in all liklihood kill the cars driver as well).

And lets be frank here. If it was possible for a pee soaked diaper to react with chlorinated pool water to create a substantial amount of chloroform vapor, then we would be seeing cases of it at every pool and waterpark across the world. A very nice shot at misdirection however. (hmmm now where have I heard dirty diaper theories before, or who keeps repeating them insesantly despite overwelming evidence to the contrary)

As far as test contamination at the FBI lab. 2 things work against that theory. The FBI lab uses chloroform in DNA labs. They detected chloroform vapors in the trunk of the car. Chances are the samples would never be in the same room as Chloroform in the FBI. But even given the extremely remote possibility of lab contamination, it still doesn't explain the computer searches and documents. Someone used Casey's computer to look up chloroform.

Once again we have various pieces of evidence coroborating and reinforcing each other. This greatly limits the possible and reasonable conclusions that can be derived from the evidence.

 

[Thinaire]

Are you sure LE said there were substantial amounts of chloroform, and that there is definitely no possible innocent explanation? Or was it the media who misconstrued that or are just hyping it up a bit? I'm pretty sure the LE have only couched their statements in very conservative terms so far.

Have to leave this thread...Casey's possible defense does not interest me...

 

[Trapshooter]

Are you sure LE said there were substantial amounts of chloroform, and that there is definitely no possible innocent explanation? Or was it the media who misconstrued that or are just hyping it up a bit? I'm pretty sure the LE have only couched their statements in very conservative terms so far.

According to Nancy Grace, LE DID say "substantial amounts".

 

[seagull65]

You know one of the things that bother me most? The fact that I have never known of anyone who has lost a child, as I and many other posters here have (whether in death or kidnapping) who was not absolutly devastated. I realize that people react differently, but hearing that one phone call where Casey said she had to keep her composure to talk to investigators does not make sense. I ask anyone posting here with children or granchildren: Would It Even Be Possible For You To Stay Composed? For me, my world turned upside down and I wasn't composed, couldn't have been if my very life depended on it. I just wanted to die. Anybody relate?

You are right that it doesn't make sense (unless she really thought, whether correctly or not, that her child was safe or with a known person or was thinking the child would be returned.) Or, if she suffers from mental illness, (purely speculation, I'm not saying she does), or if she's addled from drugs, or if she's in shock, or has a cognitive problem that this is not even registering, etc etc.

 

[RR0004]

I know that's not what she told LE, and she also told her family adamantly in the jailhouse phone call that Tony had nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance....but still...
why wouldn't LE do forensics at those apartments, I'm just surprised.

what does ETA: or Tony mean?

edited to add...she told Tony she was working for Universal IIRC.

 

[Trapshooter]

Have to leave this thread...Casey's possible defense does not interest me...

I agree Thinaire....we may possibly be subpoenaed to testify!