Some patients won't see nurses of different race

[jjenny]

Rejecting a nurse based on race is the heart of the matter and should never be tolerated. An employee should be provided a place to work that is free from racial discrimination- by anyone; customers, patients,co-workers, superiors, administration, owners-anyone. While the hospital cannot control racism they can control how they react and respond. Either they support racism or they don't. If they support it- they will be sued and face the consequences.
The rest of your logic is is irrelevant to the subject, imo.

And how does the hospital provide that place? If a sick patient shows up, should hospital kick that patient out for asking for a nurse of a different race? Should hospital refuse treatment to that patient? Then the hospital will end up with a patient suing them.

 

[believe09]

The hospital conceded that they violated their own policy and they settled with the nurses, correct?

from the link:

Hospital officials said in a statement Friday that the incident was "triggered by conduct which is not consistent with Hurley's policies" and that it "fundamentally opposes racial discrimination."

 

[believe09]

And how does the hospital provide that place? If a sick patient shows up, should hospital kick that patient out for asking for a nurse of a different race? Should hospital refuse treatment to that patient? Then the hospital will end up with a patient suing them.

Why should the hospital concede to the demand at all? :waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

Why should the hospital concede to the demand at all? :waitasec:

If the patient refuses to be treated, then what should that hospital do with the patient? Don't provide any treatment? If patient dies, who is responsible?

 

[Cubby]

Seriuosly, why did this guy pick this particular hospital if he had a problem with it's employee's?

In all reality, I might ask for a different staff member if they have an accent so strong I can not understand them. I'd hope that would not be interpreted as racism.

It's been my experience the only patients I've heard of rejecting any one from treating them medically are usually very elderly men who refuse female doctors.

 

[Nova]

I know I shouldn't feel this way, since I am vehemently opposed to the death penalty, but if a person refuses medicine simply because it was touched by a person of another race, I say leave the meds by his bedside and let him die.

Sometimes the herd needs to be thinned.

That being said, I want to offer my gratitude and admiration for all the generous medical personnel who put aside such personal slights for the benefit of their patients. Bravo!

ETA after venting my initial emotional response above, I am reminded that my beloved and kind grandfather developed an irrational mistrust of black people as his Alzheimer's progressed. His African American nurses handled the situation very well and I don't know that he ever refused treatment. But obviously he wasn't in his right mind, because he had never expressed such views until he became ill.

 

[Nova]

I should add that a patient requesting a nurse or doctor the patient can understand is a cultural issue, not a racial one. The patient has every right to clear information.

Other cultural conflicts can be handled on a case-by-case basis, I think.

 

[inthedark14]

Seriuosly, why did this guy pick this particular hospital if he had a problem with it's employee's?

In all reality, I might ask for a different staff member if they have an accent so strong I can not understand them. I'd hope that would not be interpreted as racism.

It's been my experience the only patients I've heard of rejecting any one from treating them medically are usually very elderly men who refuse female doctors.

I can relate something with this. My grandfather was in the hospital, and had been there for a few weeks with a bowel issue. He had to get up and out of bed and walked around by a physical therapist. The young lady they sent him was of Asian decent and he could not understand what she was telling him. His exact words to me "Can you tell her that I can't understand her, she just keeps talking louder but I don't know what she's saying?".

He isn't hearing impaired and he isn't a bigot. He honestly could not communicate with her. In all fairness he wasn't too happy with the burly white guy that came later because he wasn't as sweet as "that cute girl he couldn't talk to".

He's all for females treating him, he's a big flirt. LOL

 

[RLynne]

Should this happen? No, of course not. But when it threatens patient well being, accommodations are generally made. And this is especially true in mental health nursing - if a patient is paranoid about a certain gender/race/religion, it can get physically dangerous very fast.


Best-
Herding Cats

This happened to me once, Herding Cats. Back when I was still practicing law, I was on the list for appointments through the county to defend folks in mental commitment hearings. I once got assigned a client who, it turned out, when psychotic, had very specific delusions about women (white women in particular--and I am one). In all my years of defending folks in commitment proceedings (not to mention some very high-conflict family law cases, restraining orders, defense law, juvenile law, etc.)--when I attempted to meet with that client, it was one of only two situations where I ever felt I was in physical danger.

I had NO problem calling the clerk in charge of appointments for commitment hearings and telling her that when new counsel was appointed, it really needed to be a guy--and they had no problem in accommodating the request.

Folks in their right mind who refuse care from someone due to race/gender, though--they're total tools.

 

[Herding Cats]

See, that's exactly what I was mentioning earlier - that especially with patients who are in a mental illness crisis, things like this must be considered.

And I also agree - in their right minds, they're definitely tools.

But the question becomes, and I'm really not sure what the best answer is, say a patient is in for congestive heart failure, and in critical need of meds (diuretics, et cetera). These meds must be taken, or the patient will likely die.

He refuses to take the meds because a minority brought them to him.

What should the RN do? Refuse to trade places with another nurse? Or trade positions, and get the patient his meds?

If the RN doesn't trade places, and the patient dies because they didn't take their meds...the RN will lose her license, or at the very least be fired. Not to mention the very high dollar lawsuit against the hospital, the RN, and everyone else that can be named.

We RNs have GOT to meet the patient where they are - however that happens. As was said, we're not there to be liked; we're there to make sure you get taken care of the way your Dr wants you to be.

It is offensive to do that sometimes...believe me, some of the patients we deal with do far worse to us than just demand we switch patients. But it hurts us, and is not a good, right, or ethical thing to be subjected to a patient's racism. But it is, imho, far worse to take a moral stand and someone die because of it.

I don't know the answer. It hasn't happened to me, but I think that should I meet someone who has a difficult time with a white nurse, I'll leave that patient to someone else...because the patient always comes first, and the patient always bleeds red, just like me. And they're the ones who need help if they're laying in the hospital bed, you know?

I don't know the answer. I hope that I never have to make a choice like that, but I do hope I'd make the choice in favor of the patient rather than myself.

Again, though, in the OPs post, this patient was an infant...so the patient wouldn't/couldn't have made the demand to switch. Again, I don't know what I'd do in that situation, either.

There is no way nursing could ever be considered "easy."

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[CHERIE.T]

I've never heard of such a thing. I want my loved one to recieve good care no matter what the color of ones skin is.

 

[Angelonline]

In the late 90's I worked the switchboard at a small town medical clinic, which had one African American Dr, who was new to the clinic. Many callers making appointments would say "anyone but the black doctor", or "is that the black doctor". Our instructions were if they said #1 to not schedule them with him, but if they said #2 our answer was to be, "I'm sorry, I cannot discuss the race of our physicians". Oh and the African American Dr. was the most highly trained and best physician on the staff, IMO. So in all honesty those callers were hurting themselves.

I called down to that clinic a month or so ago to make an appt for my daughter. I requested that doc, and guess what nowadays he is booked up for weeks, sounds like some folks wised up

 

[LinasK]

I read this article in my newspaper today and was outraged! This is incredible, and demeaning to any educated healthcare professional!
I can't believe any hospital would acquiesce to such demands!!!
And a patient does have a right to refuse treatment. The hospital must document it.

 

[Trident]

See, that's exactly what I was mentioning earlier - that especially with patients who are in a mental illness crisis, things like this must be considered.

And I also agree - in their right minds, they're definitely tools.

But the question becomes, and I'm really not sure what the best answer is, say a patient is in for congestive heart failure, and in critical need of meds (diuretics, et cetera). These meds must be taken, or the patient will likely die.

He refuses to take the meds because a minority brought them to him.

What should the RN do? Refuse to trade places with another nurse? Or trade positions, and get the patient his meds?

If the RN doesn't trade places, and the patient dies because they didn't take their meds...the RN will lose her license, or at the very least be fired. Not to mention the very high dollar lawsuit against the hospital, the RN, and everyone else that can be named.

We RNs have GOT to meet the patient where they are - however that happens. As was said, we're not there to be liked; we're there to make sure you get taken care of the way your Dr wants you to be.

It is offensive to do that sometimes...believe me, some of the patients we deal with do far worse to us than just demand we switch patients. But it hurts us, and is not a good, right, or ethical thing to be subjected to a patient's racism. But it is, imho, far worse to take a moral stand and someone die because of it.

I don't know the answer. It hasn't happened to me, but I think that should I meet someone who has a difficult time with a white nurse, I'll leave that patient to someone else...because the patient always comes first, and the patient always bleeds red, just like me. And they're the ones who need help if they're laying in the hospital bed, you know?

I don't know the answer. I hope that I never have to make a choice like that, but I do hope I'd make the choice in favor of the patient rather than myself.

Again, though, in the OPs post, this patient was an infant...so the patient wouldn't/couldn't have made the demand to switch. Again, I don't know what I'd do in that situation, either.

There is no way nursing could ever be considered "easy."

Best-
Herding Cats

There's no way the thanks button was enough. You are truly a healer, not concerned with slights, or self, but dedicated to the patient. People like you are few and far between.

One thing I believe many here are missing - it is the patient who pays. Therefore, the patient should have a choice in what kind of care is given, and by whom. Health care is a service industry.

 

[Nova]

...One thing I believe many here are missing - it is the patient who pays. Therefore, the patient should have a choice in what kind of care is given, and by whom. Health care is a service industry.

Nobody's missing anything. It's a BS argument that was settled by Congress and the courts a half-century ago when it was decided that certain rights of commerce are limited by society's need to protect minorities from discriminatory treatment.

A merchant does not have the right to refuse service based on race; a homeowner does not have the right to refuse to sell his home to buyers based on race.

A patient has a right to proper care. But assuming that someone's care will be inadequate because of skin color is not a constitutional right.

This may be the OP's original link...

http://thegrio.com/2013/02/22/some-patients-wont-see-nurses-of-different-race/

The Michigan cases follow a 2010 decision by the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which held that the federal Civil Rights Act prohibits nursing homes from making staffing decisions for nursing assistants based on residents’ racial preferences. The ruling stemmed from a lawsuit filed by a black nursing assistant who sued her employer for racial discrimination.

(Emphasis added.)

I think the issue of patient's rights is settled there. What is still before the court is whether nurses who are reassigned because of patient racial bias have a legal claim against their employer.

jjenny asked a good question above: What is the harm to the nurses who were reassigned, since they weren't fired because of the bigotry they encountered? I'm not speaking for the court or plaintiffs, jenny, but I imagine the harm lies in making nurses of certain races less competitive than white nurses.

If your hospital lies within an area of significant racial animus, where a black nurse will only be accepted by 50% of patients, but a white nurse will be accepted by 100% of patients, whom are you more likely to hire? Which will make your scheduling easier?

There may be additional issues that relate to the type of assignments available to white and black nurses. Let's say that white patients are likely to have twice the income and therefore twice the preventative care of black patients (these are wild numbers only to illustrate a potential problem), you may end up with a situation where white nurses have a light workload because they have more wealthy white patients with a history of good nutrition and preventative care.

I'm sure the actual lawsuit details the problem with better examples than those I'm creating from my imagination. But that's my idea of the essence of the "harm".

 

[believe09]

One thing I believe many here are missing - it is the patient who pays. Therefore, the patient should have a choice in what kind of care is given, and by whom. Health care is a service industry.

Hmmm I am skeptical that any patient at any hospital foots 100% of the bill.

 

[Trident]

Hmmm I am skeptical that any patient at any hospital foots 100% of the bill.

You may be right about that, but I do pay a portion of my health care. I WILL, and make no mistake, deal with and pay, whomever "I" am comfortable with. And, make no mistake, if I am UNcomfortable with that healthcare provider, "I" will NOT tolerate them, to the point of exiting the hospital. It's still MY money that pays whatever portion, and "I" WILL be, and have been, in charge of that.

 

[Sonya610]

Nobody's missing anything. It's a BS argument that was settled by Congress and the courts a half-century ago when it was decided that certain rights of commerce are limited by society's need to protect minorities from discriminatory treatment.

A merchant does not have the right to refuse service based on race; a homeowner does not have the right to refuse to sell his home to buyers based on race.

A BS argument is right. Customers/consumers are not bound by ANY of those laws. They have every right to shop around for the professionals that they like and they also have every right to REFUSE services/treatment from individuals at any time for any reason.

Now grant it the hospital/service provider doesn't necessarily have to provide them with another employee that meets their preference BUT the fact is the patients have the right to make that call.

 

[Trident]

A BS argument is right. Customers/consumers are not bound by ANY of those laws. They have every right to shop around for the professionals that they like and they also have every right to REFUSE services/treatment from individuals at any time for any reason.

Now grant it the hospital/service provider doesn't necessarily have to provide them with another employee that meets their preference BUT the fact is the patients have the right to make that call.

Good of you to take the time, I couldn't be bothered, LOL.

 

[Sonya610]

Hmmm I am skeptical that any patient at any hospital foots 100% of the bill.

If they pay for private insurance then YES they do foot the bill whether it is via their insurance company or directly.