South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Estelle]

The family dog has not been mentioned yet.

This is what a psychologist said about it.

It's odd that the family dog was apparently present, and unharmed, and nobody has reported hearing him bark, or said that he attacked anyone during the attack on the family. This would be unusual if the attack was made by a stranger.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Henri-van-Bredas-reaction-plausible-CyberShrink-20150204

 

[Tortoise]

BIB
My feeling is that if they thought there were real intruders, Theresa and Marli would have run from the property and probably used their phones to call for help.

Yes, and Henri would not have stood and watched from the open bathroom door, or shouted out, he'd have locked the bathroom door and phoned his parents and/or police.

 

[Estelle]

The David Bain and The Jeffrey R. MacDonald cases are similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_family_murders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_R._MacDonald

 

[Tortoise]

There is just so much to cover in this trial. I thought the pathologist was pretty weak, and non-committal, in terms of adding any pieces to the jigsaw. I'm not even sure where the defence objected to her findings.

Who is going to give evidence about the dog? I suppose only Henri can, but he's a liar. Marli might be able to explain the dog's usual temperament and habits.

I think we only have about 12 court days left and we haven't heard about Marli's injuries yet, we'll probably need to hear from a neurologist about the long faint, a blood spatter expert, police and crime scene examination, phone and laptop examination, this trial within a trial ruling, and then the defence case.

They need to put in longer court hours to get this done IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

Is it just rumour that Henri googled some other axe murder that night?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Cape {Town} Etc‏ @CapeTownEtc · 21m21 minutes ago

This week's talking points in the #VanBreda trial with @Traceyams

Inside the Van Breda murder trial: a lawyer’s perspective of week 4
Tracey Stewart talks us through the week that was at the Van Breda triple murder trial. We hear about forensic reports, medical evidence and the start of a trial within a trial.

Interesting little video
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc

 

[JudgeJudi]

Is it just rumour that Henri googled some other axe murder that night?

A mobile phone found at the scene of a brutal axe murder in which three members of the same family were killed was used to search details of an infamous U.S. axe killing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ils-infamous-Romeo-killer-axe-attack-U-S.html

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is from a more credible source than the Daily Fail

A cellphone that was found on the scene was apparently used to search for information on axe murders, sources revealed to Netwerk24.

The forensic unit apparently made the find after going through the search histories on cellphones and computers in the house following the murders.

It was not said whose cellphone it was but it was found that someone had searched for information on the axe attack of Peter and Joan Portco in the US. The Portco’s son, Christopher, who was 21 at the time, was found guilty of the second-degree murder of Peter and of leaving his mother severely disfigured.

Attempts by News24 to get comment from the NPA were unsuccessful and the police also refused to confirm the claims.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...sed-to-find-info-on-other-axe-attack-20150323

If this is true, it's all over Red Rover for the smirking assassin.

 

[Tortoise]

@Traceyams seems pretty sure that Henri will be testifying but if her reporting of Botha's words at the time is correct, he said hopefully, not definitely.

 

[Estelle]

A mobile phone found at the scene of a brutal axe murder in which three members of the same family were killed was used to search details of an infamous U.S. axe killing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ils-infamous-Romeo-killer-axe-attack-U-S.html

It will be interesting to hear what date HvB did that search. Also if they have found out when and where the axe was purchased and by whom.

This ia an extract from the above link:

The Chris Porco Story', which aired in 2013 and portrayed Porco as a wannabe playboy who attacked his parents after they complained about his bad college grades and wasteful spending.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omeo-killer-axe-attack-U-S.html#ixzz4iBU6fhao

The Real Romeo Killer

[video=youtube;xDUUx3CCc0Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDUUx3CCc0Y[/video]

 

[Rosa913]

I read a lot about this case and I believe Henry is guilty, probably he had one psychotic attack, his behavior during and after the murders points him as responsible. I do not think that the sister is accomplice of the murders, she was in the house, she was injured, I believe she is a victim but she was lucky, probably her brother was no so aggressive with her.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I get the feeling Desai is not going to let Botha get away with his normal aggressive questioning.

He's a bully, imo. Botha was shouting at the very first witness and J Desai asked him to tone it down, it seems Botha is finding it difficult. :/

 

[Estelle]

@Traceyams seems pretty sure that Henri will be testifying but if her reporting of Botha's words at the time is correct, he said hopefully, not definitely.

Inside the Van Breda murder trial: a lawyer's perspective of week 4


[video=youtube;8uPYm36_TCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uPYm36_TCY[/video]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I don't discount the possibility that Rudi and Henri had a punch up earlier on, but something tells me that this was not a spur of the moment family massacre to kill witnesses. I think it was to get the family money, he had a long-standing sense of injury, being a narcissist, and entitlement, and had perhaps been exposed during the argument. That pirate game or cartoon or whatever it was might also have pumped him up, after he had the idea to murder them all.

The way the family was drawn in that night/morning was premeditated. He would attract the attention of his father or mother to ambush them, and deal with them one by one as they approached.

He is fortunate that Theresa and Marli didn't manage to escape and raise the alarm before he could attack them. If Theresa hadn't yet seen inside the bedroom she wouldn't have guessed what Henri had done in there and would have had no reason to try to escape as her first course of action. I think each of them intervened thinking they could diffuse a fight and then to help the others before any thoughts of running to safety could kick in. It sounds like Marli really put up a fight and I wouldn't be surprised if she pushed Henri down the stairs, but he came back.

I agree with your assessment of HvB. I think he enjoyed their affluent lifestyle and had no intention of working hard like his father and mother to achieve or maintain it. His parents may have thought his quiet rebellion and laziness would sort itself out but unfortunately it didn't, and he became dependent on drugs without their knowledge. Once they stood their ground after finding out his secret, they sent him to rehab twice, but things took a downward turn. He's talking of castles in the air, his parents send him for a brain scan, 'why is he like this?' I hear them asking themselves.
Rudi back under the same roof, HvB's high and mighty attitude isn't going to cut it. He appears like that today as he leaves the court, the king of the castle and everyone to do his bidding. I can only imagine the family are in denial, how could Martin and Theresa have produced a son who could do such evil? So, he must be innocent. JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

Something tells me he said he did not speak in Afrikaans (even though we know he can) to make it more difficult for the SA officer taking his statement. If the officer's English was not perfect he would then claim that the officer misunderstood/misinterpreted what he had said.

I agree IB. Someone was speaking Afrikaans in court and Botha asked him to speak in English because HvB couldn't follow. I think Desai made a comment about it too.

When Teresa woke up as a result of the noise in the boys' bedroom, she would hardly call out in a language that was foreign to either HvB or Rudi.

 

[Interested Bystander]

He's a bully, imo. Botha was shouting at the very first witness and J Desai asked him to tone it down, it seems Botha is finding it difficult. :/

I would love to see him lose this case.

 

[Estelle]

I read a lot about this case and I believe Henry is guilty, probably he had one psychotic attack, his behavior during and after the murders points him as responsible.

One psychotic attack? IMO we do not really know what his behaviour was really like BEFORE the murders except to say he was given a brain scan a year or two ago but we do not know why that was given, it has been reported that the police found a man from whom Henri obtained "tik" presumably in the month before the murders and that he was drinking that night as alcohol was smelt on his breath. All we know about his behaviour AFTER the murder is that he was arrested on a drugs charge.

There are two possibilities if one can call the murders a "psychotic:attack":

Substance-induced psychosis: drug and alcohol use or withdrawal can result in psychotic symptoms. These may disappear once the effects of the substances or withdrawal symptoms wear off. In some cases, psychosis persists after the initial substance-induced psychosis. This is common with stimulant drugs, e.g. methamphetamine (“tik&#8221.

Brief psychotic episode: psychotic symptoms appear suddenly in response to a recognisable and highly stressful life event, such as being a victim of violent crime. Symptoms may be severe but are short-lived: the psychosis lasts between one day and one month. You may or may not be aware of your bizarre behaviour.

http://www.health24.com/Mental-Health/Brain/Neurological-conditions/12-types-of-psychosis-20130711

Maybe a combination of both. But we do not really know enough about the stressful event which may have triggered his behaviour except to say the three male family members had a two hour long argument and that HvB's father had told him that he was going to cut off his allowance but we have not been told why yet.

 

[Estelle]

I would love to see him lose this case.

Me too. I often think of him as "Botha the Bully". I wonder what his success rate is? I think if anyone is going to get HvB off, it is Botha. He tries to argue every little thing he can think of.

If you had to choose between Botha and Roux, whom would you choose to defend you?

 

[JudgeJudi]

What cowards they are, these murderers who can't bear to listen to the details of what they have done. We've had Pistorius sitting with his fingers in his ears and now HvB crawling down to the floor.

I hate it when judges show concern for them, like they are babies.

Totally agree BUT they have to go down this road or the defence will use it as a ground for appeal, e.g.

Botha: My client was distressed, crying ... yadda yadda yadda ... and he had to sit there when he was visibly distressed, vomiting etc.

You know how it goes Tortoise. We've been there and done that with OP, all the adjournments while he composed himself.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Me too. I often think of him as "Botha the Bully". I wonder what his success rate is? I think if anyone is going to get HvB off, it is Botha. He tries to argue every little thing he can think of.

If you had to choose between Botha and Roux, whom would you choose to defend you?

So far I'd say Botha, because I think he's very clever, focuses on every single point ... and there have been many so far ... as opposed to Roux who asked the same question 10 different ways and basically just ground the witnesses down. Roux was very dishonest the way he totally manufactured his false timeline. It's early days yet and so I may change my mind.