South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Interested Bystander]

Woken in the middle of the night, confused, disoriented and jarred, Teresa would say the first thing that came to mind, IMO, regardless of if that made sense to anyone listening...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I imagine having heard the fight between her sons and her husband going to attend to the problem she would have been compos mentis very quickly. Adrenaline would have ensured that. OMO

 

[Tortoise]

I imagine having heard the fight between her sons and her husband going to attend to the problem she would have been compos mentis very quickly. Adrenaline would have ensured that. OMO

Theresa had time to process, mental alertness, and enough light, to have raised her hand to defend herself.

I've been thinking about the blood in the bathroom and I wondered if he said he stood with the door open to try to explain how blood might have spattered in there.

 

[JanetElaine]

[....]

That doesn't happen. Marijuana slows people down a bit, that's all. Also helps with pain relief.

[....]

rsbm

I just wanted to respectfully say that unfortunately that is not correct. Usually I let those comments go, but they seem to happen so much. Pot is not as innocent as people want it to be. I'm in a country that has had 'legal' pot use for a long time and the effects on mental health care particularly are noticable. Aside from news articles I hear this first hand from my mom who worked I mental health care here for years, and I personally know one person (an ex boyfriend) who turned schizophrenic after starting pot young and using it for years. I broke up with him many years before this, but the last I heard about him was him being arrested for threatening to blow up his apartment building with a homemade bomb (psychosis induced).

Tl;dr here's an article: http://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...rs-risk-schizophrenia-drug-helps-pain-n706196

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder how close the bathroom door was to Rudi's bed.

If it was close by, he's going to have to explain why he didn't have a drop of Rudi's blood on him, not even fine spatter on his skin or his shorts. It's an absence of blood where there should be blood, especially if they found blood spatter on places like the bathroom door/frame area. I'm not saying they found it there, it's just an if.

For there to have been blood on the wall outside (was it their house or the neighbours?) it shows how this type of attack causes a lot of spatter. And how does Henri account for having no blood on the bottom of his socks if he was moving around in the room with the intruder, where Rudi's and Martin's blood would have been all over?

Some questions for Galloway.

 

[Tortoise]

One thought leads to another - how did Henri manage to clean prints off the axe handle without also cleaning off the blood and leaving blood traces wherever he cleaned it? Surely the handle would have been suspiciously clean after such a massacre.

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is a must read article describing in detail the photos shown in court. It makes HvB's story even less credible IMO.

Images Will Stay Beyond Trial's End

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/weekend-argus-saturday-edition/20170429/281638190100559

 

[JudgeJudi]

The family dog has not been mentioned yet.

This is what a psychologist said about it.

It's odd that the family dog was apparently present, and unharmed, and nobody has reported hearing him bark, or said that he attacked anyone during the attack on the family. This would be unusual if the attack was made by a stranger.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Henri-van-Bredas-reaction-plausible-CyberShrink-20150204

Precious told the court the family had a dog named Sasha. She said the dog walked around the home freely, didn’t bark much when she arrived for work and slept in Henri’s bed.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-9-new-witnesses-deliver-key-testimonies/

I've had dogs my entire life, and for many years 2 at a time. They always barked loudly when someone arrived at the house but would settle down once a family member let the person enter. Some nights we have possums go bounding along the veranda roof just outside our bedroom window and the barking starts instantly. As Sasha slept next to HvB's bed I can well imagine the dog start barking as soon as the attack on Rudi commenced.

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is a must read article describing in detail the photos shown in court. It makes HvB's story even less credible IMO.

Images Will Stay Beyond Trial's End

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/weekend-argus-saturday-edition/20170429/281638190100559

I should have pointed out this is not a new article but it is one I have missed and very detailed. Some of you may already have seen it.

 

[Tortoise]

I should have pointed out this is not a new article but it is one I have missed and very detailed. Some of you may already have seen it.

Thanks IB, I hadn't seen that before.

What I find surprising is that Theresa was lying face down with her head end pointing away from Henri's room. She was also attacked from the front. It sounds to me as if she was moving away from the room when she was attacked and he managed to get round her and in front of her.

I'm not sure about Rudi and Marli being able to move along the floor after the attacks. It sounded as if the expert was saying they might be able to move limbs but that's not the same as being able to propel themselves from one place to another. I don't quite know why it was left to the assessor to raise such an important question, and no one else was curious to know. But I'm also not sure it was answered fully, from the bits that were reported anyway.

 

[Tortoise]

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/die-burger/20170426/281655369963225

I'm not sure where the ensuite bathroom is.

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/die-burger/20170426/281655369963225

I'm not sure where the ensuite bathroom is.

I don't think that can be a true representation of the bedroom. No windows, no balcony, no bathroom. It feels wrong somehow.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Snipped for brevity

The only other scenario I can think of is that he's become schizophrenic due to smoking pot which can happen to young teenagers who are the ones most at risk.

That doesn't happen. Marijuana slows people down a bit, that's all. Also helps with pain relief.

I have no personal medical knowledge but I consider the Mayo Clinic, a psychology instructor at Harvard Medical School and a brain scientist at Massachusetts General Hospital to be in a position to give informed opinions on this subject.

Avoid using in children or adolescents. Marijuana may affect brain development in the young.

Avoid using in people who have or are at risk of mental illness. Marijuana may cause anxiety and psychotic-like symptoms. It may also increase the risk of aggression, bipolar disorder, delusions, depression, hallucinations, lack of energy or motivation, and suicidal thoughts.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/marijuana/safety/hrb-20059701


Young adults who occasionally smoke marijuana show abnormalities in two key areas of their brain related to emotion, motivation, and decision making, raising concerns that they could be damaging their developing minds at a critical time, according to a new study by Boston researchers.

Other studies have revealed brain changes among heavy marijuana users, but this research is believed to be the first to demonstrate such abnormalities in young, casual smokers.

The Boston scientists also found that the degree of brain changes appeared to be directly related to the amount participants smoked per week.

Researchers did not study whether those changes were linked to corresponding declines in brain function, but lead author Jodi Gilman, a psychology instructor at Harvard Medical School and a brain scientist at Massachusetts General Hospital, said such abnormalities in young brains are reason for concern.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifesty...eport-shows/X1cN8A7h5pOVJkeYkXTXlJ/story.html

 

[JudgeJudi]

Tortoise, your a genius for suggesting the forward slash. I still have to copy and paste all the quotes but as you can see, your suggestion is working. That just made my day.

:tyou:

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/methamphetamine/brain-damage.html

Damage to the Brain and the Mind Commonly Experienced by a Methamphetamine Abuse

 

[JudgeJudi]

Precious told the court that she had never seen the family fight and that they spoke Afrikaans to each other. This is an interesting point, as in Henri’s plea explanation he said he wasn’t comfortable with officers speaking Afrikaans and preferred English.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-9-new-witnesses-deliver-key-testimonies/

 

[PrimeSuspect]

One thought leads to another - how did Henri manage to clean prints off the axe handle without also cleaning off the blood and leaving blood traces wherever he cleaned it? Surely the handle would have been suspiciously clean after such a massacre.

HvB may have used clean wipes, I'm thinking also, that he wiped himself with a wet towel or had a full shower and redressed in his soiled boxer shorts but now with clean socks. Either he never had socks on during the attacks or he disposed of the blood drenched socks as a few posters suggested, he flushed down the toilet.


Another sticking point - HvB said he struck the assailant with the axe. There should be dna (blood,skin) or clothing particles on the blunt edge of the axe.The axe can't have made connection with the assailant's body without leaving a trace.

“He started to stab at me with the knife, but initially I was still able to prevent him from stabbing me. I realised that I would not be able to keep a grip with my hand twisted and hurting, so I struck his right shoulder with the axe in an attempt to make him let go of the knife.

“Despite this, he managed to stab me with the knife on my left side, almost at the same time that I struck him with the axe.”

Problems with HvB's plea statement - He had a cell phone in the bathroom, why would anyone watch a lengthy axe attack on their brother, then their father, and not make calls out?

HvB said he called out for help but instead of the assailant attacking him as he was nearby, he waits for Martin to trek along the landing to enter the bedroom, switch on the light and proceeds to hack at him?! The attacker laughs while doing so, this is significant for some reason.

The attacker doesn't go for HvB who's 1) standing in the bedroom, (btw, has 2 beds, 2 males, attacker aware of another occupant of the room)

2) standing in the bathroom where he yelled out, bringing his whereabouts to the attacker's attention, and that loud, Martin heard all the way from his bedroom down the corridor,

3) when attacker hears Theresa asking 'what's going on here?' and chooses to leave the bedroom to attack her and Marli leaving HvB alone.

4) waiting in the bedroom while the lengthy attacks on his mother and sister take place?

After Theresa and Marli are 'silenced', the attacker, laughing, slowly re-enters the well lit bedroom and doesn't notice HvB standing there (so why does the attacker return?), this gives HvB the advantage of surprise?!

When HvB runs after the attacker out of the house, he doesn't continue to the neighbours to alert them? Why not?

Each time I go over his statement. :facepalm: :gaah:

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...-for-me-van-bredas-version-of-events-20170424

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Precious told the court the family had a dog named Sasha. She said the dog walked around the home freely, didn’t bark much when she arrived for work and slept in Henri’s bed.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-9-new-witnesses-deliver-key-testimonies/

I've had dogs my entire life, and for many years 2 at a time. They always barked loudly when someone arrived at the house but would settle down once a family member let the person enter. Some nights we have possums go bounding along the veranda roof just outside our bedroom window and the barking starts instantly. As Sasha slept next to HvB's bed I can well imagine the dog start barking as soon as the attack on Rudi commenced.

HvB might have locked Sacha in the bathroom. I wonder if the police checked for fresh scratches on the door or any other door to a room where she may have been held. Unfortunately, if there were scratches, HvB would say it's from another day. :/

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/die-burger/20170426/281655369963225

I'm not sure where the ensuite bathroom is.

This is a great find Tortoise. Notice how close the houses.
Rudi was found at the foot of HvB's bed (the journo probably thought on the bed), it's now revealed Rudi was on the floor near the entrance to the en suite? HvB's bed is nearest the bathroom?

- During cross-examination, Dr. Botha put his expert’s version to Dr. Anthony that Rudi could have been alive for approximately 2hr40min after the attacks took place. Dr. Anthony conceded that this is possible but difficult to conclude as we would need to know how much blood was lost and the rate at which Rudi had lost that blood. It was also revealed that Rudi was likely attacked in bed, where he would have been able to move himself out, after the attacks and very slowly – the reason his body was found on the floor near the bathroom.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van...nce-significant-scuffle/#sthash.AXgz2Zlb.dpuf

Dr. Anthony confirmed that Rudi van Breda also had lacerations on his leg and a defensive wound on his pinky finger which had lifted the nail on that finger. She predicted that Rudi probably knew the attack was coming, that he was lying in his bed on his side and had raised his hand to his head to ward off the attack. We also heard that due to blood found in Rudi’s stomach, he was probably alive for a period after the attacks.

I hadn't realised that Rudi knew he was about to be attacked? Maybe everyone was uneasy that night after the 2 hour argument between Martin/Rudi and HvB, they slept lightly?

 

[JudgeJudi]

James Reade-Jahn testified on 11 May. He was 16 in 2015 and was dating Marli at the time of the family's murders.

He recognised the page with emergency numbers. The paper on the fridge was the emergency contact list for the children for security, etc. It was easily accessible because they wouldn't have it on their phones.

Family was bilingual, spoke English and Afrikaans quite often.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Quinton Malan was one of the officers on de Zalze scene at 8am after the murders.

Officer Malan says Henri was calm, quiet and showed no emotion.

Correction: the officers name is Clinton Malan, not Quinton. Apologies

Malan says Henri told them that he saw a man with a Balaclava committing the crimes.

Henri sits forward, taking notes during Malan's testimony. He seems interested, engaged. Completely opposite to this morning.

Malan says they needed a statement ASAP from the only concious witness who saw the crime to begin investigation.

Galloway hands Malan the statement he took from Henri on day of murders. M confirms that's the correct statement.

M: Henris behaviour was emotionless while giving statement

M says Henri spoke freely and openly about his version of what happened.

M: Henri never told me that he didn't want to talk to me anymore or he couldn't continue giving statement.

Malan says henri did not say anything incriminating that required Malan to warn Henri of his statements consequences in court.
Galloway hands over to Botha. Botha says 90% of what he just heard is the first time he's heard it. B begins questioning
Malan.

Botha asks Malan if they drove from De Zalze with Henri&Col. Adams to Dr. Albertse's offices. Malan says correct.

Botha points out that they stopped at police station first to pick up papers.Malan:Yes, didn't mention because it's not important.

Botha seems ready for a fight. B's voice is louder than with any other witnesses today.

Court is out for the day. Trial within a trial continues tomorrow. See ya'll then.

Apologies, court adjourned to Monday morning at 10am. Its been a long day! Hope you have a sweet weekend.

Please Note this is an accurate transcript and spelling are as posted in the tweets. I have changed nothing. I have also chosen to list them in order so that it is easier to follow the story.

Noted HvB's demeanor completely changed since the morning, now he's back to business taking notes, definitely a man of many colours. And Botha using his outside voice again!

What annoys me about Botha's complaints is that he's completely dismissing the murder of a family while trying to save his 'client'. At least, this is what comes across in the tweets. The police were trying to find the killer/s, HvB is the only conscious witness.
Botha fails to stress that HvB was desperate and willing to help. The brutal killers were roaming the streets, time was running out to apprehend them, the community was in danger but Botha carries on regardless, like there were/are no killers on the loose.

From the previous court tweets, Botha claiming torture and so forth is just outrageous! This is an unwinnable case, imo, that's why he's resorting to hysterical accusations at the police. Hopefully, it won't wash with Judge Desai and the first statement will be admissible.

Btw, big thank to IB and JJ. :tyou: