South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[jjenny]

Haha, wow, that seems really obvious now...I feel silly!

It's a complete guess on my part and I could be totally wrong.

 

[rsorcha]

I presume we are allowed to link to wikipedia? There could be many reasons for suicide so I certainly don't believe that the reason for suicide it's because someone believes they are nothing, and that's it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

There are many reasons for suicide. That just happened to be one of them.

 

[MaureenN]

I never said DON'T hold them accountable. I was simply saying that I don't believe it was the SOLE/ONLY factor in the matter is all.

But, I don't think that the charges are implying that, either. They are not being charged with causing her death or suicide. They are being charged for the criminal harassment, stalking, civil rights violations, stat rape, etc.

 

[Paladine]

Found a Tina Narey Sullivan on this Sean support page

Her Mothers name is Susan. Might be an Aunt. Once again, here's the obit...has some family members listed. I noticed many Nareys from Holyoke. Which is where the medical examiner is...Dr. Sexton.
http://www.barryjfarrellfuneralhome.com/Nareyray.html

 

[jjenny]

But, I don't think that the charges are implying that, either. They are not being charged with causing her death or suicide. They are being charged for the criminal harassment, stalking, civil rights violations, stat rape, etc.

I think it's a safe bet they would not be charged with these things if she did not kill herself.
So, in reality, aren't they really charged because of her suicide?

 

[Paladine]

But, I don't think that the charges are implying that, either. They are not being charged with causing her death or suicide. They are being charged for the criminal harassment, stalking, civil rights violations, stat rape, etc.

Exactly. It doesn't matter if she was held together with bandaids! They had no right to harass and stalk her. THAT'S their charge.

 

[AndyRyan]

Noticed on one of her "friends" formsprings that she blames Kayla for Sean's involvement saying something along the lines that when people are in relationships they sometimes act out of character for that person because they are blinded, please note these were not exact words but she has taken down her formspring since yesterday so I cannot copy and paste.
I think the questions were getting a little too difficult ( I have a feeling that Sauerkraut may have been behind those questions).
Also a few days ago I did come across a photo link of her which was taken by the same friend, will try to find link.

 

[MaureenN]

I think I understand what you are saying. There's no doubt that she was harassed, and in my opinion they should be punished. I believe that they will be found guilty of that and some of the other charges regardless.

It also occurred to me that the school was previously aware of the harassment but had done nothing to punish the students until Phoebe took her life. Although it was a moral move, I find myself baffled by this... The school wouldn't punish any of them initially for what they had witnessed taking place or that had been reported. Did the school only have the students removed as a way to avoid more public backlash than what they already knew would be coming? For example, how does their failure to intervene appropriately differ from a group of 7 teenagers beating a girl and one of the 7 refuses to participate but does nothing to stop it and the other 6 murder the girl.. Such as what occurred with Shanda Sharer.

"violation of civil rights resulting in injury" - what else, specifically, occurred asides from the name calling to result in that charge? Not dissecting that, it's a genuine question.

I believe the civil right in question is the right to an education, free from fear for physical safety, free from harassment

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I presume we are allowed to link to wikipedia? There could be many reasons for suicide so I certainly don't believe that the reason for suicide it's because someone believes they are nothing, and that's it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

Have you experienced suicide within your own friends/family? I hope not, but I ask because I have, unfortunately, several times. The bottom line is that the person who does so is in pain and wants release from it. They do believe they are worthless and unimportant enough to live. I do not need Wikipedia to define it for me. I have had professionals educate me.

imvho

 

[Paladine]

Noticed on one of her "friends" formsprings that she blames Kayla for Sean's involvement saying something along the lines that when people are in relationships they sometimes act out of character for that person because they are blinded, please note these were not exact words but she has taken down her formspring since yesterday so I cannot copy and paste.
I think the questions were getting a little too difficult ( I have a feeling that Sauerkraut may have been behind those questions).
Also a few days ago I did come across a photo link of her which was taken by the same friend, will try to find link.

Interesting, thanks for sharing, Andy. :blowkiss: I've read comments that indicate to me, too, they are trying to focus blame on the girls...good for sauerkraut! I have to check sauerkrauts foamspring! I asked another question, yesterday. Anyone care to guess what I asked?...lol...

 

[jjenny]

I believe the civil right in question is the right to an education, free from fear for physical safety, free from harassment

I think we would all like to feel free from fear for our physical safety, but is that our civil right?

 

[rsorcha]

I think we would all like to feel free from fear for our physical safety, but is that our civil right?

In a school? Yes, I absolutely DO believe it is our right.

 

[Paladine]

Have you experienced suicide within your own friends/family? I hope not, but I ask because I have, unfortunately, several times. The bottom line is that the person who does so is in pain and wants release from it. They do believe they are worthless and unimportant enough to live. I do not need Wikipedia to define it for me. I have had professionals educate me.

imvho

some know only too well...*HUGS*

 

[jjenny]

In a school? Yes, I absolutely DO believe it is our right.

But if I go out in not the safest area of town, it's not?

 

[rsorcha]

But if I go out in not the safest area of town, it's not?

I never said it wasn't. I'm talking about this specific case. But yes, it is your right to feel safe and not be harassed and stalked.

 

[MaureenN]

I think it's a safe bet they would not be charged with these things if she did not kill herself.
So, in reality, aren't they really charged because of her suicide?

I think that the suicide pushed it to the point that they couldn't ignore it anymore.

But, the suicide does not play into the charges at all. The prosecution isn't out to prove that they caused her death or suicide. They are out to prove that they criminally harassed her, etc. And, if they are proven guilty, they will not be given sentences for murder, they will be sentenced to punishments for the things that they are proven guilty of doing.

 

[jjenny]

I think that the suicide pushed it to the point that they couldn't ignore it anymore.

But, the suicide does not play into the charges at all. The prosecution isn't out to prove that they caused her death or suicide. They are out to prove that they criminally harassed her, etc. And, if they are proven guilty, they will not be given sentences for murder, they will be sentenced to punishments for the things that they are proven guilty of doing.

Right, suicide is just an elephant in the room.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

some know only too well...*HUGS*

Life experiences tend to humble you for the arrogance sometimes you carry regarding a fixed position of thought and educate you for more empathy/compassion that another deserves.

 

[AndyRyan]

I think it's a safe bet they would not be charged with these things if she did not kill herself.
So, in reality, aren't they really charged because of her suicide?

I am not up to date with American Law(or any laws if I am being honest) but one of my friends daughters had been bullied physically and on bebo and the police got involved (albeit slowly). They requested the relevant information from bebo and received it quite quickly, the girls had been posting threats on it. The case has not been in court as yet but they are confident that they will prosecute successfully. The police have actually been really supportive of her and were appalled at these girls behaviour.
While my friends daughter went through a very rough time I have to say that, going on docs released recently, it was nowhere near as traumatic as Phoebe's case, particularly as she had some good friends at school, just a couple, but they were friends that she had had for a number of years and she wasn't the new kid at school. These are some factors that made her an easy target for the bullies, she had no real support network in school. She cant have known any of her friends in the US for very long so they had no real strong bond, well not strong enough perhaps to stand up to the "popular" or tough kids.

 

[MaureenN]

I think we would all like to feel free from fear for our physical safety, but is that our civil right?

The civil right is the right to attend school, to receive an education. http://ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/index.html

I guess the 'free from fear for physical safety' is assumed in that.