South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[Paladine]

you sure can write, muffet. you are always a pleasure to read. :blowkiss:

 

[Muffet]

you sure can write, muffet. you are always a pleasure to read. :blowkiss:

Aw, Pal, :blowkiss: backatcha. Seriously, you've been doing such a wonderful job and service to us all here, with your research and keeping us informed, I feel like sending you a huge chocolate cake and a gold medal! :bow:

 

[stmarysmead]

IMO, Bullying needs to be treated much in the same way as Drunk Driving.

For years, maybe because so many people had a few drinks and made it home without hurting anyone...drunk driving was given a wink and a nod. WE only started to see real change when we developed a zero tolerance policy. At that point, real public disdain grew along with the legal and civil penalties for anyone who would get behind the wheel drunk or anyone who enabled them. ("friends don't let friends drive drunk.")

Furthermore, Drunk Drivers are rarely able to blame their victims...or shift the onus for their behavior. If the driver of the other car is promiscuous, or troubled...hey, if they were sober and in their lane where they had every right to be...the Blame Game is a loser.

So should it be for Bullies. I hope there will be convictions and real penalties in this case. Phoebe was "in her lane"...in school where the State required her to be.

They made her life unbearable...essentially THEIR behavior drove her off the road to her death. There needs to be accountability.

In time, accountability, punishment, education, and increased public outrage will making the label "Bully" as odious as the label "Drunk Driver."
Then we will see relief for our victim/children and real positive results across the board.

 

[thebear14]

As far as the statutory rape, it technically can't be consensual, even if it was, because the MA law is that at age 14 or 15 one is unable to consent to sexual activity. I don't always agree with that law, but that's besides the point. For the DA to bring the statutory rape charge I'm guessing she must have had enough evidence, perhaps from text messages, online messages via facebook, etc., or a journal Phoebe kept that there was sexual activity going on. It's unlikely she would lie about sexual activity in those sort of areas. I don't think the DA would bring a stat. rape charge just based on these girls calling her names. Also, usually the underage person doesn't bring the charge of statutory rape. This is one case where the state acts on the victim's behalf when there is evidence of sexual activity whether they want them to or not. I've read a few cases where the underage person's parents bring the charge of statutory rape against the older partner, even if they were in a dating relationship, simply because they aren't happy their child is having sex.

Regarding the girls mimicking hanging themselves by a noose, I was going to post something about that last night but didn't feel like looking for the exact place I had read it. It's beyond disgusting and shows a real lack of humanity. If one of these girls ended up committing suicide in the next few weeks, I still wouldn't condone anyone mimicking or saying "that's what she deserved" because even though what they did was absolutely terrible, there is still a family mourning the loss of a loved one way too early.

Interesting about the requesting of her previous therapy records, etc. I'll have to read more about that. Have to catch up on all the links and posts that have been submitted while I've been slumbering

 

[rsorcha]

I get the impression (especially from the latest information about requesting records) that the defense is going to try to do anything they can to discredit Phoebe and trash her character. IMO, that's not a legal defense, that just plain horrific.

Maybe I'm naive, but how on earth could people act like this?? I know the typical in-jest attitude about lawyers, but seriously, it's just scummy!

 

[jjenny]

Well, if you speculate she wrote something in a journal-unlike a person, a journal can not be cross-examined, and I suppose that's where the state of mind could come in-how can it be verified that whatever was written in a journal was accurate?

 

[jjenny]

I get the impression (especially from the latest information about requesting records) that the defense is going to try to do anything they can to discredit Phoebe and trash her character. IMO, that's not a legal defense, that just plain horrific.

Maybe I'm naive, but how on earth could people act like this?? I know the typical in-jest attitude about lawyers, but seriously, it's just scummy!

Defense lawyer's job is to defend their client. Furthermore, it's not like asking for that kind of information automatically will give defense this information. I presume a judge is going to decide if the information is relevant and if defense is not entitled to it I presume defense will not get it.

 

[Paladine]

Ireland press has picked up the story from last night: "Attempt to smear Phoebe Prince under way by defense says law professor"

“It’s standard procedure,” Dunphy told the Herald “The document speaks for itself. I’m not explaining anything.”

However, Murphy, a former prosecutor who teaches at the New England School of Law, said the move was “unconscionable,” pointing out that the state had decreed that the defendant in a criminal case is not entitled to a “laundry list of everyone the victim’s ever been treated by.”

“I can only see it as a threat to unveil all the family secrets.” Murphy said.

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/n...-by-defense--says-law-professor-90483724.html

 

[Paladine]

I get the impression (especially from the latest information about requesting records) that the defense is going to try to do anything they can to discredit Phoebe and trash her character. IMO, that's not a legal defense, that just plain horrific.

Maybe I'm naive, but how on earth could people act like this?? I know the typical in-jest attitude about lawyers, but seriously, it's just scummy!

I get the same impression. And maybe to scare the family off...quite intimidating, isn't it?

 

[jjenny]

Ireland press has picked up the story from last night: "Attempt to smear Phoebe Prince under way by defense says law professor"


http://www.irishcentral.com/story/n...-by-defense--says-law-professor-90483724.html

I personally don't pay any attention to Wendy Murphys' opinions.

 

[Paladine]

I personally don't pay any attention to Wendy Murphys' opinions.

and personally...I like Wendy Murphy...lol... good morning, jjenny!

 

[jjenny]

and personally...I like Wendy Murphy...lol... good morning, jjenny!

I dislike her even more than I do Nancy Grace.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

What the defense attorneys (and the lawyers that will, imho, for South Hadley School administration) are going to do is attempt to show that Phoebe Prince was emotionally unable to deal with harmless "teasing" do to depression and past bullying in Ireland. That she is not a victim of anything save for her own self. Their clients are victims of over zealous judgment over normal teen behaviour.

It is a smear campaign to try and preserve the status quo of what has been acceptable and "normal" in South Hadley. Makes me ill.....

 

[jjenny]

What the defense attorneys (and the lawyers that will, imho, for South Hadley School administration) are going to do is attempt to show that Phoebe Prince was emotionally unable to deal with harmless "teasing" do to depression and past bullying in Ireland. That she is not a victim of anything save for her own self. Their clients are victims of over zealous judgment over normal teen behaviour.

It is a smear campaign to try and preserve the status quo of what has been acceptable and "normal" in South Hadley. Makes me ill.....

The defense lawyer isn't releasing this information, he is asking for it. If asking for something is the same as smearing, well, pardon me.
The court will decide if defense is entitled to the information or not. Someone accused of statutory rape is facing a serious prison time and it affects their whole life. The alleged victim is dead and can not be cross-examined. What exactly do you propose defense lawyer do to defend his/her client?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

The defense lawyer isn't releasing this information, he is asking for it. If asking for something is the same as smearing, well, pardon me.
The court will decide if defense is entitled to the information or not. Someone accused of statutory rape is facing a serious prison time and it affects their whole life. The alleged victim is dead and can not be cross-examined. What exactly do you propose defense lawyer do to defend his/her client?

The defense has every right to request information from the DA in regards to their clients. I was not responding to the alleged statutory rape charges since there has been nothing put out there, to the public, regarding it. That will come out eventually. I am responding to the emotional/verbal/physical abuse Ms Prince endured from the charged group. As far as the South Hadley School system/administration, et al, where their responsibility will be held accountable.

 

[raeann]

The defense lawyer isn't releasing this information, he is asking for it. If asking for something is the same as smearing, well, pardon me.
The court will decide if defense is entitled to the information or not. Someone accused of statutory rape is facing a serious prison time and it affects their whole life. The alleged victim is dead and can not be cross-examined. What exactly do you propose defense lawyer do to defend his/her client?

Unless their attorneys are willing to waive their client's right to a jury trial, or are requesting a change of venue.....they would be VERY wise at this point to completely avoid a "blame the victim" strategy. If that is their only plan for a defense, they are in some real deep trouble. Any skilled and half-way intelligent counsel would know, by now, that their every move and attitude is already being scrutinized by their potential jury pool. IF they are truly able to seat a jury that claims to have not followed the case....then any professional jury selection consultant is going to advise them that their jury is going to have much the same reaction to the facts of the case as the general public has already clearly shown. That reaction in no way favors their clients and in no way supports a blame the victim strategy. Then again, if they do choose to use it, they know their clients will have grounds for appeal on the basis on incompetent legal counsel.


jmoo

 

[jjenny]

s



Unless their attorneys are willing to waive their client's right to a jury trial, or are requesting a change of venue.....they would be VERY wise at this point to completely avoid a "blame the victim" strategy. If that is their only plan for a defense, they are in some real deep trouble. Any skilled and half-way intelligent counsel would know, by now, that their every move and attitude is already being scrutinized by their potential jury pool. IF they are truly able to seat a jury that claims to have not followed the case....then any professional jury selection consultant is going to advise them that their jury is going to have much the same reaction to the facts of the case as the general public has already clearly shown. That reaction in no way favors their clients and in no way supports a blame the victim strategy. Then again, if they do choose to use it, they know their clients will have grounds for appeal on the basis on incompetent legal counsel.


jmoo

I have no idea what defense strategy is going to be and neither do you, I presume.
Asking for the information certainly doesn't mean defense is not competent, it's the other way around, by the way.

 

[Laurence]

I keep thinking that the what the school nurse has to say might carry a great deal of weight. Phoebe was seen in her office that day, crying, and then was sent back to class.

That's a direct call for help from the girl on the day of her death and being in an official capacity in the school administration whatever this person says could turn the case toward the bullies or away from them.

I say away from them because if the nurse and others can be shown in a bad light by the bullies lawyers (which they will try to do to deflect responsibility from their clients), then the bullies might escape with slight punishments.

And without charges against the school officials, that's the end of the criminal matter.

 

[Paladine]

I dislike her even more than I do Nancy Grace.

I used to hate NG. My Mother always watched it. But then I followed the KC case, posting on the NG thread and became hooked. My Hubby hates it. I can't watch it in the same room as him...unless I feel like hearing his commentary...lol...

 

[Paladine]

I keep thinking that the what the school nurse has to say might carry a great deal of weight. Phoebe was seen in her office that day, crying, and then was sent back to class.
That's a direct call for help from the girl on the day of her death and being in an official capacity in the school administration whatever this person says could turn the case toward the bullies or away from them.

I say away from them because if the nurse and others can be shown in a bad light by the bullies lawyers (which they will try to do to deflect responsibility from their clients), then the bullies might escape with slight punishments.

And without charges against the school officials, that's the end of the criminal matter.

Agreed, I really want to know more about that.

I'm not sure how the nurses inaction would affect the case. It appears wasn't action...but a lackthereof...I wonder if that matters.