South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[Dr. Phail]

she got herself into a situation that was too much for her to handle.

why these kids were so virulent in their behaviour,

There has to be a backstory to all of this, one we are not hearing about.

this was all about sex and teenage relationships.

Phoebe was using sex as a tool in her attempts to form relationships

there were at least two, possibly others, who had sex with her.

these boys allready had girlfriends,

Phoebe was better looking than them and willing to have sex

how would they be able to compete with her?


what they did was to isolate her by very publicly by exposing her sexual behaviour.

this plays out thousands of times across the country in every school (and beyond). In most cases suicides don't result though.

For Phoebe it became unbearable.

if she pushed the authorities or her parents too much about it there was the risk of her own initial role in all of this coming out


that may have been too much to bear

So she did the only thing she thought she could do to stop it.

There you go people. All that remains now is to await confirming details.

Which will come. The Defense, at least Austin's attorney, will make sure the facts above are known.

This was not in fact an "extraordinary case".

When a new girl enters the school and becomes to have had sex with at least 2 boys who have romantic ties to girl's within the school the resulting harassment would be "par for the course" and occur without exception in every school setting within which such were to occur.

Intensely saddening yes....if what lies at the root of Phoebe's promiscuous behavior was as some believe "extortion" as in: "I will get the bullying stopped if you give me some pussy"

Whatever the reason was that Phoebe wound up where she did though....

she ended her life rather than deal with the "consequences" of having had sex with god only knows how many boys. Hopefully just 2, no hopefully I am wrong altogether but, and good web sleuths will agree, it is most likely that she took her life rather than face (potential) humiliation and dealing with having (in her perception at least) let her Father down so thoroughly.

It is likely that, at the least within her last moments, Phoebe came to agree with her tormentors....that she was in fact a "*advertiser censored*".

So she killed herself.

Not complex, this case.

And not gonna remain, IMO at least, a suitable case upon which to expect earnest change in how bullying is addressed....once more details about this situation emerge.....so, it would appear another kid has to die.


ALL of this just my opinion of course. I have no special knowledge beyond an awareness of what was truly extremely "out of character" behavior of Sean Mulveyhill with the role he is accused of having played in Phoebe's torment (or at the least not doing anything to stop it)

and also the extremely "out of character" behavior of Phoebe Prince who just was not the type of person who would inflict the misery that this has and that she knew fully it would....upon her family and particularly her little sister Lauren.

There HAD to be something Phoebe perceived as "insurmountable" and likely the ONLY thing that would fit that mold would be disappointing her father....being "tarnished" in his eyes.

And to Sean: For him to have taken part in Phoebe's harassment there HAD to have been something VERY "serious" done by Phoebe to upset him.

Sean, you'll be interested to know, is said to have offered his ear to students who needed someone to talk to as result of Phoebe's suicide.

THAT is who Sean Mulveyhill was prior to this incident, also he was conscious of the need to avoid trouble that could effect potential college scholarship so for his role in this to have been anything OTHER than supporting Phoebe....

she had to have done SOMEthing that made him SO ANGRY that he forsook all.....

to see Phoebe "punished".


What might you conclude that this would have been? What POSSIBLY could she have done to make Sean so very upset with her?

 

[Paladine]

my goodness, this quote...same link...

"Sayer said Prince went to an assistant principal who was tied up handling another disciplinary matter and was told to go back to class for that reason. Sayer said the incident was reported third-hand in the district attorney’s complaint.

The school superintendent, whose contract runs through June 30 and who, at 67, is one of the oldest school superintendents in the Bay State, said he has no intention of stepping down. Sayer said the calls for resignations are always from “the same two guys,” alluding to Gelinas and O’Brien.

Boisselle said there should be “serious consequences” if an administrator was aware of the bullying and did not take action and that school officials will know more after they meet with Scheibel Wednesday.

“We are not going to be pushed around by a mob mentality,” Boisselle said, in explaining why there will be no resignations. “There is no basis in fact that Dan or Gus have done anything wrong in this situation.”

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/as_phoebe_prince_bullying_fact.html

 

[AstuteLearner8]

Hey, Astute :wave: Welcome and thanks for the link!

Wow...I like this qoute...

Thanks for the welcome :hug: (wow there are so many emoticons to choose from). Unfortunately the only reason I joined was motivated by the injustices of the Phoebe Prince case but this seems to be an interesting forum.

Well I'll try to keep posting as the case goes along.

 

[Paladine]

"Phoebe's promiscuous behavior"? Are you well? It's a stat rape charge. She was 14 and 15 and the time. I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more. I will say no more. I have places to go, people to see. I will be good, mods.

 

[Paladine]

Thanks for the welcome :hug: (wow there are so many emoticons to choose from). Unfortunately the only reason I joined was motivated by the injustices of the Phoebe Prince case but this seems to be an interesting forum.

Well I'll try to keep posting as the case goes along.

I love the emoticons. My new fave tonight is.. :newbie:

For you! I'm outta here, it's late. But good to have you, Astute...peace...p

 

[AstuteLearner8]

my goodness, this quote...same link...

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/as_phoebe_prince_bullying_fact.html

I wouldn't be surprised if that same mob mentality showed up on Wednesday's meeting. Just stop talking until Wednesday if you want to save yourselves administrators.

And can someone explain to me how the statutory rape charges were charged? I seem not to find a link on why there was a charge on statutory rape to the two young men.

 

[Paladine]

I wouldn't be surprised if that same mob mentality showed up on Wednesday's meeting. Just stop talking until Wednesday if you want to save yourselves administrators.

And can someone explain to me how the statutory rape charges were charged? I seem not to find a link on why there was a charge on statutory rape to the two young men.

There have been no dox released on them, as yet. Maureen posted an explanation, a couple of pages back, earlier this evening, if you care to have a look. I haven't read it, yet...it's been a crazy night.

 

[jjenny]

I wouldn't be surprised if that same mob mentality showed up on Wednesday's meeting. Just stop talking until Wednesday if you want to save yourselves administrators.

And can someone explain to me how the statutory rape charges were charged? I seem not to find a link on why there was a charge on statutory rape to the two young men.

The age of consent in MA is 16, so she was below the age of consent. Thus, if anyone (presumably over 16) had sex with her they would be committing statutory rape. So, if prosecutor charged two young men with statutory rape I presume prosecutor alleges they had sex with her.

 

[Paladine]

IMO, the dox paint a picture of Sean Mulveyhill in the library at SHHS that is ugly and demented. He has one mean streak in him, humiliating a young girl while laughing and making out with his co-defendant. I, and the world, am learning alot about Sean Mulveyhill.

 

[claudicici]

...I think we should also consider that Phoebe went to school in europe ..it is in fact a lot more liberal and noone would call you a "*advertiser censored*" or "promiscuous" for sleeping with 2 guys...

 

[Dr. Phail]

based on the claims that her relative warned the school Phoebe was prone to be bullied I imagine she did have issues with being bullied back in Ireland at some point of time.

What Phoebe's Aunt actually said to the school was something along the lines of:

"With Phoebe being a new girl in school and coming from a much smaller school I am concerned that she may be susceptible to bullying"

and asked that the faculty pay special mind to "watching out" for Phoebe.

Which of course they proceeded immediately to not do.

O'Brien tried to get some mileage out of this "susceptible" deal because he is a word man and susceptible is a really "fun" word for a word man....Darby was unable to resist "just a little" embellishing which is what ad men do and Darby is an ad man through and through. Quite a good one really but pre-trial statements to the press are a whole different ballgame than marketing deodorant and canned vegetables.

If you've paid attention, you've noticed now a change in Darby, one that was "suggested" (to make the most massive understatement in the history of recorded speech) by Rebecca Bouchard who is sharp as they come and the Prince Family Lawyer.

Rebecca, when she became aware of Darby's statement (this and 2 others around the same time) actually DROVE (It is said anywa, by some) to South Hadley from Springfield with the specific intention of throwing Darby into either Titus Pond or the pond at Holyoke College...whichever was most approximate to where she located Darby.

Some say she was already in South Hadley at that point, didn't drive from anywhere but point being.....

Darby is now much more careful of what he says and Phoebe's Aunt didn't say anything about previous bullying. This on good authority, Phoebe was not bullied in Ireland....the opposite actually, she was popular and very well liked.

Its almost universally acknowledged that Rebecca did not throw Darby in either lake which is unfortunate as that of course would have been intensely cool.

 

[Paladine]

...I think we should also consider that Phoebe went to school in europe ..it is in fact a lot more liberal and noone would call you a "*advertiser censored*" or "promiscuous" for sleeping with 2 guys...

Or in Canada, in my experience.

The words meant nothing. You want to bet the ones hurling the words hadn't done the deed themselves? I'd bet they had. They we're envious of her appeal and so they attacked it, tried to make it into something dirty and shameful. This is not about Phoebe. This is about their actions. They broke the law. She didn't. IMO

 

[Dr. Phail]

...I think we should also consider that Phoebe went to school in europe ..it is in fact a lot more liberal and noone would call you a "*advertiser censored*" or "promiscuous" for sleeping with 2 guys...

WOW! Great point.

I forget how sexually repressed "we" are here....just kinds get used to it ya know

very true what you say and Phoebe was "wise beyond her years" in some regards.

Trust that she would not be fond at all of being portrayed as a vulnerable girl able to be conned by boys into sex.

Phoebe said that she was not a fighter, would not know how to fight, but she did not say she didn't know how to handle horndog boys who she knew were just out to have sex with her then likely toss her aside....

which is why, in response to my own question...the answer is quite possibly that she shut Mulveyhill down.

I am not hugely confident in that answer however because most generally a DA does not charge without solid evidence though were there ever to be an "exception" to that "rule" it could certainly be a case like this wherein if you DON'T CHARGE a good portion of America and Ireland are gonna shout "off with her head!!"

 

[jjenny]

It's not DA's job to charge someone without probable cause, just to please the public.

 

[Paladine]

"Casinos curb bully bill progress
Pols zero in on gambling"

"Casino-crazed Beacon Hill lawmakers have shoved aside an anti-bullying bill sparked by Phoebe Prince’s tragic suicide so they can push through legal slots and roulette wheels for the Bay State - a brushoff that has advocates demanding a tough new law now"

That says alot about what's important to them...IMO
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re...s_zero_in_on_gambling/srvc=home&position=also

 

[Dr. Phail]

"Phoebe's promiscuous behavior"? Are you well? It's a stat rape charge. She was 14 and 15 and the time. I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more. I will say no more. I have places to go, people to see. I will be good, mods.

I hope that both Sean and Austin are convicted and sent to jail. Last word in this matter is, yes, Phoebe was unable to consent because one cannot accomplish consent in MA while under the age of 16 so this was rape.

I didn't dispute that. Merely tried to give a heads up to all those who'd suffer disappointment if the canonization of Phoebe Prince doesn't come to pass.

And moreso than that advise "fervent supporters" of a change who think they've found the "GodSend" case to accomplish that to not place all their eggs in one basket.

And RFLMAO, I could not possibly care less whether you read my posts or not.

Pissed myself laughing at: "I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more"

now I go to change my pants but save this peed in pair to resume wearing before I read another of your posts.....so I don't soil yet another pair of drawers.

 

[Paladine]

I hope that both Sean and Austin are convicted and sent to jail. Last word in this matter is, yes, Phoebe was unable to consent because one cannot accomplish consent in MA while under the age of 16 so this was rape.

I didn't dispute that. Merely tried to give a heads up to all those who'd suffer disappointment if the canonization of Phoebe Prince doesn't come to pass.

And moreso than that advise "fervent supporters" of a change who think they've found the "GodSend" case to accomplish that to not place all their eggs in one basket.

And RFLMAO, I could not possibly care less whether you read my posts or not.

Pissed myself laughing at: "I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more"

now I go to change my pants but save this peed in pair to resume wearing before I read another of your posts.....so I don't soil yet another pair of drawers.

Lol...you are funny. My position is, it's a trial not the National Enquirer. There will be a judge and I hope he doesn't let them trash the victim. And if he does, I hope the jury will be outraged, which they very well may be.

Till then...I'm not worried about Phoebe's character standing up in court. From everything I've read, they'll make her look like the Virgin Mary.

Sorry, if my comment was biting. I'm protective...

 

[Paladine]

Dr. Phail. I think I might know you. "Kristian" mean anything to you, lately? I think we've chatted before. At his "house"...now, if that means nothing to you...I'm wrong...

Good night...and welcome.

ETA: Now, I know it's you... Love your humor.

 

[Dr. Phail]

The older three are being charged as adults, I think?? Anyone, feel free to pipe up. The younger 3, youthful offenders, on some charges...me and US law ...I try.
http://www.wggb.com/Global/story.asp?S=12280581
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0409/1224267974777.html

Just trying to get up to speed and read through this thread....lord only knows what I should do about that other thread......48 pages......more?!? :viking:

48(maybe +) pages is gonna take along time to read.....I wish there were a "cliff notes" version.

Anyway...just happened across the quoted post and felt the need to say that I believe Austin, Sean and Kayla are charged as Adults, Ashley, Sharon and Flanney as "youthful offenders"....I could be mistaken on that precise configuration but 3 are charged as adults. For which I am thankful. Initially I thought they charged them all as "youthful offenders".

'pologize if someone answered that already between that post and here

 

[Dr. Phail]

my goodness! look at the pic...there's another door, I think. On the rear of the house...to the LEFT of the photo?...see that big dark door-like shape on the back of the house? Wonder if that's an entry, too...it's making sense, to me, I think...where her body MAY have been, anyways...

WOAH!!!!! I never noticed that, and had looked I thought very CLOSELY at that photo.

I think you solved this P!!!!!!!!

and I think I can't avoid concluding that I am not very observant.

That TOTALLY looks like a Stairwell. Its dark in there.

I feel very positively that you have solved this mystery.

I think this is where she was found because the OUTSIDE stairs would appear to lead just up to an enclosed porch area whereas this......?

I'd think would lead directly into the upper floor apt. so naturally one would use THIS to get in the apt.