Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[RickshawFan]

No, no dogs required for that bit. They could take toilet samples and compare it with Esthers DNA (eg from hair, skin or clothes found in the campervan). Likewise fingerprints.

She coulda dropped her phone in the toilet....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

She coulda dropped her phone in the toilet....

I’ve used long drop toilets and reckon if I shone a torch down I’d see everything on the surface (bleurgh!). Should be easier still with less used and more composted/dry content.

 

[Grouse]

The enclosed Rocky Mountain privy I put ^^^ actually has a solar attachment, but I'm not sure what it's for. Maybe to keep the worms from freezing?

Or to keep the seat warm in winter, now that would be a high tech mountain privy Seriously though could it be used to provide wifi?

What happens to the worms ultimately? How long do they last?

 

[Grouse]

No, no dogs required for that bit. They could take toilet samples and compare it with Esthers DNA (eg from hair, skin or clothes found in the campervan). Likewise fingerprints.

Sometimes we forget the simple solutions are best.

 

[Grouse]

I’ve used long drop toilets and reckon if I shone a torch down I’d see everything on the surface (bleurgh!). Should be easier still with less used and more composted/dry content.

Just don't strike a match if you ain't got a torch! eek!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The enclosed Rocky Mountain privy I put ^^^ actually has a solar attachment, but I'm not sure what it's for. Maybe to keep the worms from freezing?

The things we google - but wow, clever!



performance evaluation of backcountry solar toilets rocky mountain ...

 

[Grouse]

So, all that stuff the other day about trailling dogs and losing scent at a particular place, did we ever actually get any evidence to back that up? I suspect not.

 

[CharlesSwann]

Further to my suicide theory (#248):
- Asking for fruit on the way up might indicate a) that she didn't take any food with her at all (not anticipating the need and assuming that having an empty stomach would make pills work faster, b) that she suddenly had the desire for a piece of fruit as a "last request" out of sentimentality or that she was giving herself a last chance to find a reason to live (cf Kiarostami's "A Taste of Cherry").
- High up on a mountain would be a good place for it - the sort of place she loved to be (and closer to heaven?).
- The name "Sauvegarde" might be psychologically attractive, with connotations of "safe passage into the next life" or "salvation".
Anyway, I think it should be a line of enquiry, eg, search all possible scrambles down from the summit including concealed places, and check whether she had any prescription drugs.

 

[miekei]

So, all that stuff the other day about trailling dogs and losing scent at a particular place, did we ever actually get any evidence to back that up? I suspect not.

There are two main types of SAR dogs. Tracking dogs will follow a trail and pick up the scent of skin cells dropped along the way by a hiker, but there has to be a trail - they need a starting point. Air scent dogs are used when there isn’t an obvious trail to follow; they pick up the scent of humans suspended in air currents and find where it’s coming from. So they would be used when searching for a missing hiker when there is no identifiable or known trail to follow. Then there are sub-categories of air scent dogs, specialized in cadavers, avalanches, water etc. I’ve only ever done tracking with my dogs, but my friend has an avalanche dog, which has been trained to ride the ski lifts.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’ve used long drop toilets and reckon if I shone a torch down I’d see everything on the surface (bleurgh!). Should be easier still with less used and more composted/dry content.

Exactly. I've been hoping LE looked in those toilets. I keep wondering if actually ED fell in or hit her head or something. Maybe that's ghoulish, but ED could have used the "facilities" without staying at the Refuge or leaving any trace there.

 

[Seni]

Actually, it was fantastic. So helpful. That's why I remembered it.

I agree totally. This was both from a professional and acquired experience on the part of 10 rods.


I have never been on a personal hike for a long time but I have participated in many expeditions to find the source of a river or to map areas previously not documented.

The field work was hard, as were the logistics in unchartered territory. We often had to carry boats, fuel and equipment over rapids. Not everyone were swimmers. We had to fish them out. Strike a new camp every night. We would take rice, lentils and beans and hope to catch a fish. We also had farinha, a dried version of yuca, bit like couscous but harder.

On the way up river we were always offered food by the communities. Including difficult choices such as turtle or a fat caterpillar...

 

[RickshawFan]

Or to keep the seat warm in winter, now that would be a high tech mountain privy Seriously though could it be used to provide wifi?

What happens to the worms ultimately? How long do they last?

LMAO. Literally.

The worms last indefinitely. When they expire, they turn into compost. In the meantime, surprise!!!!, there are baby worms. I'm guessing if they use worms in Spain/France, they simply replenish them every summer.
Around here, we're not allowed to put food waste in the garbage. We're REQUIRED to compost it by law. Alot of people use worms.

I actually was thinking maybe that solar gizmo might actually be an emergency satellite receptor.

****
Now that I think about it, you can evidently use dried dung as a water filter, and in developing countries they often use dried animal dung in lieu of firewood. So, after a long time drying, it must be inert.

I've seen human poop being pulled out of one of those composting privies. Really, it doesn't look dangerous. Nor does it smell like faeces.

Gosh, the wild directions WS can take you in...

*****
But all this is to say, I hope LE looked at the privies at the Refuge. I've been saying this since Day 1. You could trip in a privy and hit your head. You could get dizzy and hit your
head. You could succumb to cramps from chia seeds ingested without enough water...

 

[RickshawFan]

There are two main types of SAR dogs. Tracking dogs will follow a trail and pick up the scent of skin cells dropped along the way by a hiker, but there has to be a trail - they need a starting point. Air scent dogs are used when there isn’t an obvious trail to follow; they pick up the scent of humans suspended in air currents and find where it’s coming from. So they would be used when searching for a missing hiker when there is no identifiable or known trail to follow. Then there are sub-categories of air scent dogs, specialized in cadavers, avalanches, water etc. I’ve only ever done tracking with my dogs, but my friend has an avalanche dog, which has been trained to ride the ski lifts.

So, @miekei , can those air scent dogs still pick up a person's aroma if it has been several days? If it's contaminated by other people's aroma?
I love the idea of dogs riding ski lifts...

 

[Seni]

LMAO. Literally.

The worms last indefinitely. When they expire, they turn into compost. In the meantime, surprise!!!!, there are baby worms. I'm guessing if they use worms in Spain/France, they simply replenish them every summer.
Around here, we're not allowed to put food waste in the garbage. We're REQUIRED to compost it by law. Alot of people use worms.

I actually was thinking maybe that solar gizmo might actually be an emergency satellite receptor.

****
Now that I think about it, you can evidently use dried dung as a water filter, and in developing countries they often use dried animal dung in lieu of firewood. So, after a long time drying, it must be inert.

I've seen human poop being pulled out of one of those composting privies. Really, it doesn't look dangerous. Nor does it smell like faeces.

Gosh, the wild directions WS can take you in...

*****
But all this is to say, I hope LE looked at the privies at the Refuge. I've been saying this since Day 1. You could trip in a privy and hit your head. You could get dizzy and hit your
head. You could succumb to cramps from chia seeds ingested without enough water...

 

[RickshawFan]

I agree totally. This was both from a professional and acquired experience on the part of 10 rods.


I have never been on a personal hike for a long time but I have participated in many expeditions to find the source of a river or to map areas previously not documented.

The field work was hard, as were the logistics in unchartered territory. We often had to carry boats, fuel and equipment over rapids. Not everyone were swimmers. We had to fish them out. Strike a new camp every night. We would take rice, lentils and beans and hope to catch a fish. We also had farinha, a dried version of yuca, bit like couscous but harder.

On the way up river we were always offered food by the communities. Including difficult choices such as turtle or a fat caterpillar...

This sounds awesome! Hats off to you for doing that, too. Outdoor folks rely on mappers.
Yes, I can totally see communities be welcoming and willing to share. That's my experience, too. I wonder how they might have reacted, though, if you asked instead of them offering?

 

[RedHaus]

Further to my suicide theory (#248):
- Asking for fruit on the way up might indicate a) that she didn't take any food with her at all (not anticipating the need and assuming that having an empty stomach would make pills work faster, b) that she suddenly had the desire for a piece of fruit as a "last request" out of sentimentality or that she was giving herself a last chance to find a reason to live (cf Kiarostami's "A Taste of Cherry").
- High up on a mountain would be a good place for it - the sort of place she loved to be (and closer to heaven?).
- The name "Sauvegarde" might be psychologically attractive, with connotations of "safe passage into the next life" or "salvation".
Anyway, I think it should be a line of enquiry, eg, search all possible scrambles down from the summit including concealed places, and check whether she had any prescription drugs.

BBM
And @CharlesSwann, didn't ED open her 21/11 Instragram post with all those pics from the summit of pic de sauvegarde with "I'm in heaven..."?
Everything we know after hiker from Durham goes missing in Pyrenees mountains

 

[otto]

I wish one of our dog experts would weigh in. If there was no item of Esther's given to the dogs, how would they know her byproducts in the privy apart from anyone else's? Maybe a dumb question, but I'd like to know how they would tell the difference between Esther and any other person.

Can dogs indicate "a person peed here 3 days ago"? I can grasp that they'd be able to detect the sex of a person (but do they need two different dogs??) Truly curious.

Can dogs be trained to detect human activity in general?

 

[otto]

So, all that stuff the other day about trailling dogs and losing scent at a particular place, did we ever actually get any evidence to back that up? I suspect not.

No. I didn't see any links to support dogs stopping abruptly / losing scent.

 

[otto]

Further to my suicide theory (#248):
- Asking for fruit on the way up might indicate a) that she didn't take any food with her at all (not anticipating the need and assuming that having an empty stomach would make pills work faster, b) that she suddenly had the desire for a piece of fruit as a "last request" out of sentimentality or that she was giving herself a last chance to find a reason to live (cf Kiarostami's "A Taste of Cherry").
- High up on a mountain would be a good place for it - the sort of place she loved to be (and closer to heaven?).
- The name "Sauvegarde" might be psychologically attractive, with connotations of "safe passage into the next life" or "salvation".
Anyway, I think it should be a line of enquiry, eg, search all possible scrambles down from the summit including concealed places, and check whether she had any prescription drugs.

Pills at the top of a mountain is where you lose me. Why would she take pills - to pass out, muscle relax and tumble? Dual suicide option?

 

[Seni]

This sounds awesome! Hats off to you for doing that, too. Outdoor folks rely on mappers.
Yes, I can totally see communities be welcoming and willing to share. That's my experience, too. I wonder how they might have reacted, though, if you asked instead of them offering?

There was never any question of our asking.

We would pay for farinha and "tucupí", a kind of spicy dip.

We were often offered a free meal.

From experience we knew what items they would appreciate - these are communities without much communication. They welcomed watches, tennis shoes etc. Nowadays they have mobiles and Whatsapp..