Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[Seni]

But I would just like to point out out that we did many expeditions that went very much further in terms of time and planning, food was a big issue as we didnt manage to catch fish on any regular basis (and we had factored this in).

I would dream of a piece of cheese, bread, an egg..

 

[Seni]

But I would just like to point out out that we did many expeditions that went very much further in terms of time and planning, food was a big issue as we didnt manage to catch fish on any regular basis (and we had factored this in).

I would dream of a piece of cheese, bread, an egg..

Further to my suicide theory (#248):
- Asking for fruit on the way up might indicate a) that she didn't take any food with her at all (not anticipating the need and assuming that having an empty stomach would make pills work faster, b) that she suddenly had the desire for a piece of fruit as a "last request" out of sentimentality or that she was giving herself a last chance to find a reason to live (cf Kiarostami's "A Taste of Cherry").
- High up on a mountain would be a good place for it - the sort of place she loved to be (and closer to heaven?).
- The name "Sauvegarde" might be psychologically attractive, with connotations of "safe passage into the next life" or "salvation".
Anyway, I think it should be a line of enquiry, eg, search all possible scrambles down from the summit including concealed places, and check whether she had any prescription drugs.

So what pills do you think she was taking? Spit it out backed up by MSM or hold it.

 

[CharlesSwann]

Pills at the top of a mountain is where you lose me. Why would she take pills - to pass out, muscle relax and tumble? Dual suicide option?

People overdosing on pills is probably the most common (and easiest) means of suicide. You just sit there, pass out and die. Sleeping pills usually - in order to render them unconscious before death - no agony or even discomfort if they get the dose right.
(Did I need to explain this?)

Suggestion is she hid herself away in a crevice with the romantic idea of being there eternally. She wouldn't want to be found. Hence no suicide note. That's what I would do anyway.

I guess a lot more people do that kind of thing than we realise - probably a good proportion of all missing person cases.

 

[CharlesSwann]

So what pills do you think she was taking? Spit it out backed up by MSM or hold it.

Sorry, I don't know what MSM is. (Microsoft Messenger?)
Are you saying we are not allowed to use intuition in our sleuthing?

 

[sassyblue]

Sorry, I don't know what MSM is. (Microsoft Messenger?)
Are you saying we are not allowed to use intuition in our sleuthing?

Mainstream Media

 

[otto]

People overdosing on pills is probably the most common (and easiest) means of suicide. You just sit there, pass out and die. Sleeping pills usually - in order to render them unconscious before death - no agony or even discomfort if they get the dose right.
(Did I need to explain this?)

Suggestion is she hid herself away in a crevice with the romantic idea of being there eternally. She wouldn't want to be found. Hence no suicide note. That's what I would do anyway.

I guess a lot more people do that kind of thing than we realise - probably a good proportion of all missing person cases.

Sure, but suicidal people put some time into thinking about the easiest way to achieve the goal. Pills at home or topple off a mountain, but climbing a mountain to get drugged out of one's mind seems complicated, like a contradiction.

People can't "hide" in glacial crevices. Crevices are people walking on a glacier and suddenly the ground gives out beneath them as the fall 30 or more feet. It's not a hiding place. She wasn't hiking glaciers, and it seems unlikely that the trail included broken earth crevasses where people could vanish or hide.

 

[otto]

Sorry, I don't know what MSM is. (Microsoft Messenger?)

Are you saying we are not allowed to use intuition in our sleuthing?

Intuition is fine as long as it has some basis in reality. There's no evidence that Esther used any medications.

MSM = main stream media
It's basically a request for a link connecting Esther with pill popping.

 

[Sarahlou]

People overdosing on pills is probably the most common (and easiest) means of suicide. You just sit there, pass out and die. Sleeping pills usually - in order to render them unconscious before death - no agony or even discomfort if they get the dose right.
(Did I need to explain this?)

Suggestion is she hid herself away in a crevice with the romantic idea of being there eternally. She wouldn't want to be found. Hence no suicide note. That's what I would do anyway.

I guess a lot more people do that kind of thing than we realise - probably a good proportion of all missing person cases.

Suicide by pills is really not always easy. It can be a horrible slow death. Like you said it depends on the dose and the type of pills.

Anyway, I don't think this is what happened to Esther.

 

[CharlesSwann]

Sure, but suicidal people put some time into thinking about the easiest way to achieve the goal. Pills at home or topple off a mountain, but climbing a mountain to get drugged out of one's mind seems complicated, like a contradiction.

People can't "hide" in glacial crevices. Crevices are people walking on a glacier and suddenly the ground gives out beneath them as the fall 30 or more feet. It's not a hiding place. She wasn't hiking glaciers, and it seems unlikely that the trail included broken earth crevasses where people could vanish or hide.

There's no glacier at the top of Sauvegarde and I didn't mention one. Just rocks. I would assume the mountainside is not perfectly smooth and that there are boulders one could hide amongst. That sort of crevice (not "crevasse").

I find no difficulty in imagining this happening - as I said, it's the sort of thing I have contemplated myself - so I guess it's a case of individual differences.

 

[CharlesSwann]

Intuition is fine as long as it has some basis in reality. There's no evidence that Esther used any medications.

MSM = main stream media
It's basically a request for a link connecting Esther with pill popping.

Oh I see. Well, as you'll see from the wording I used, I claimed nothing as fact, I'm only speculating from human nature. As to prescription pills, I've no idea, but Esther comes across to me as the bipolar type - perhaps she was taking something for depression? Has the question been asked?

 

[CharlesSwann]

Suicide by pills is really not always easy. It can be a horrible slow death. Like you said it depends on the dose and the type of pills.

Anyway, I don't think this is what happened to Esther.

Hmm. Surely it's the calmest and least traumatic kind of 'self-euthanasia' there is.
And while I'm prepared to believe that it's a bit of cliché in the movies (eg. Shirley McLaine in The Apartment) the fact is, lots of people surely do it, especially hyper-emotional people.
I'm not sure how you can rule it out. In any case, it's rather more plausible than falling into a latrine or dying of malnutrition a couple of hours from the road.

 

[otto]

There's no glacier at the top of Sauvegarde and I didn't mention one. Just rocks. I would assume the mountainside is not perfectly smooth and that there are boulders one could hide amongst. That sort of crevice (not "crevasse").

I find no difficulty in imagining this happening - as I said, it's the sort of thing I have contemplated myself - so I guess it's a case of individual differences.

That would make more sense if Pic de Sauvegarde meant something to her, but it was a route suggested by a stranger she met on Nov 19. This cannot be some elaborate plan to go to a significant place to overdose on drugs. That level of planning would not involve a random mountain.

 

[PeggyHenry]

That would make more sense if Pic de Sauvegarde meant something to her, but it was a route suggested by a stranger she met on Nov 19. This cannot be some elaborate plan to go to a significant place to overdose on drugs. That level of planning would not involve a random mountain.

My own view is that Esther did not commit suicide although it probably remains a line of enquiry. She had some history of depression although we don’t know how severe or what type. If she was suicidal and chose to take her life then I don’t see why using sleeping pills etc would not have been a considered option. Preferable to jumping off a ledge into a lake .. a lot more peaceful perhaps. It would have been difficult perhaps for her to get the amount of pills required, but if she did have access to them then I imagine she would have taken herself off to some peaceful spot. I still don’t think that Esther committed suicide but until we hear more news it’s an option I guess.

 

[CharlesSwann]

That would make more sense if Pic de Sauvegarde meant something to her, but it was a route suggested by a stranger she met on Nov 19. This cannot be some elaborate plan to go to a significant place to overdose on drugs. That level of planning would not involve a random mountain.

Why make absolute judgement on it and dogmatically rule it out? It's perfectly possible. She wouldn't know the perfect spot until she found it, but given Sauvegarde's auspicious name, and the fact that it's one of the highest mountains around, and within easy drive/hike of home, it could hardly have been random. The route is obvious from the first glance of a map of the area so it doesn't seem likely that she heard about it only from a stranger.

For what it's worth, in my own case, I was thinking of the Utah Canyonlands and I fully expected to hike around several days before finding the right spot with the intention, in the process, of inducing terminal dehydration which I gather is a very serene and painless way to go. Anyway, don't worry - that plan is on indefinite hold. I mention it simply to illustrate to those who have never previously imagined such a thing that certain mental states are possible.

 

[IrisElizabeth]

People often die of exposure on mountains without meaning to - you wouldn't need pills to commit suicide, just find a quiet cold place to go to sleep and hope to never wake up.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Why make absolute judgement on it and dogmatically rule it out? It's perfectly possible. She wouldn't know the perfect spot until she found it, but given Sauvegarde's auspicious name, and the fact that it's one of the highest mountains around, and within easy drive/hike of home, it could hardly have been random. The route is obvious from the first glance of a map of the area so it doesn't seem likely that she heard about it only from a stranger.

For what it's worth, in my own case, I was thinking of the Utah Canyonlands and I fully expected to hike around several days before finding the right spot with the intention, in the process, of inducing terminal dehydration which I gather is a very serene and painless way to go. Anyway, don't worry - that plan is on indefinite hold. I mention it simply to illustrate to those who have never previously imagined such a thing that certain mental states are possible.

Sorry to hear you’ve been to “that place” yourself. I don’t think your theory is any less viable than some of the other outlandish theories that have been discussed here, so thank you for your very personal contribution to the discussion.

 

[stmarysmead]

Sad but interesting piece just yesterday about a family totally bewildered by a loved ones suicide.

Owen Paterson on the agony of his wife's suicide: 'It's horrifying to think she was suffering so badly without us knowing'

Personally, and sadly, I think suicide is a very possible scenario with Esther.

In the interview with their college that I posted the other day, it was revealed by Dan that Esther has wanted to live this itinerant lifestyle since college. She pursued numerous degrees but I haven’t found any reference to a job, rather than a brief stint at “personal training.”

She excelled as a student but is there anything we can find that she was ever able to function among other working people in a job? I know a few people who seem to find endless pursuit of degrees in Academia...some sort of refuge from the world. I don’t know if this is fair to say about Esther, it’s just an opinion...but these prestigious degrees that she earned, seem to have been of no use outside of a FB introduction.

Bullying has been mentioned by her on her FB, and I wonder what damage it did and whether she has tried to create a tiny protective circle with just Dan...away from the world at large. Always moving, high in remote places, inaccessible. Only Esther chooses who gets near her.

I sense, IMO, a woman who is not only escaping from the material world, but also any requirement of responsibility. IMO I do not find this romantic...I find it rather disturbing. IMO, there is more here than occasional depression. I think that lovely bright smile deceives us.

IMO, years had passed, money was tight, and now Dan, the sensible one, may have told her itwas time to start earning money again. Time to re-enter reality, take on responsibility. This might have been more threatening to Esther than anyone realized. Staying in the mountains forever might have been her solution. I hope not, just guessing, but we certainly can’t dismiss the possibility.

Reading the Telegraph article about the wonderful privileged life Owen Paterson’s wife had...and the exciting, adventurous life Esther was living, I thought of the poem ‘Richard Corey” about a much envied gentleman being observed daily by those with much less...

“So on we worked, and waited for the light...and went without the meat...and cursed the bread.

And Richard Corey, one calm summer night...went home and put a bullet through his head.”

 

[Grouse]

DBM

 

[Grouse]

There's no glacier at the top of Sauvegarde and I didn't mention one. Just rocks. I would assume the mountainside is not perfectly smooth and that there are boulders one could hide amongst. That sort of crevice (not "crevasse").

I find no difficulty in imagining this happening - as I said, it's the sort of thing I have contemplated myself - so I guess it's a case of individual differences.

I was touched that you shared your experience of this.

As for the mountain top, personally I can't imagine that SAR would have missed her up there. I've posted before to say that IMO the large wooded area to the north of the refuge would be a possible location for a suicide.

 

[fridaybaker]

Exactly. I've been hoping LE looked in those toilets. I keep wondering if actually ED fell in or hit her head or something. Maybe that's ghoulish, but ED could have used the "facilities" without staying at the Refuge or leaving any trace there.

FELL IN? Surely you jest.