Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[IrisElizabeth]

One of the things that confuses me about DC's assertion that a third party was involved with Esther's disappearance and that it was not a voluntary event is the public statements he has made. The statements seem to be in large part reiterating to the world about what a good relationship they had - normally in missing persons cases when foul play is suspected the appeals would be to try and get either the public's help in finding clues or a direct appeal to the person responsible. Anyone have any theories on why there have been no direct appeals for her safe return?

 

[Satchie]

One of the things that confuses me about DC's assertion that a third party was involved with Esther's disappearance and that it was not a voluntary event is the public statements he has made. The statements seem to be in large part reiterating to the world about what a good relationship they had - normally in missing persons cases when foul play is suspected the appeals would be to try and get either the public's help in finding clues or a direct appeal to the person responsible. Anyone have any theories on why there have been no direct appeals for her safe return?

I think it would help to take into account the emotional experience of the loved ones of a missing person. Perhaps to consider the stages of grief, for example. Shockingly, some humans are not completely logical and self-consistent when under the stress of strong emotions. This is not seen by most people as suspicious, and in some people it evokes emotions called empathy and compassion.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

DC’s absolute assertion that she did not have an accident or disappear voluntarily is understandable but as time has gone on he really should think deeply about whether he really knows this for sure. You can’t predict weather or wrong step to end up in a dangerous place, just like peoples’ mental health can change in the blink of an eye.

We ALL say things were fine. When my dad died in a tragic accident all I could say was ‘he was healthy there was nothing wrong with him. I was adamant he must have fallen. Over time it came to light that he knew for along time he was not well, he’d recently had an organ function test and had the lungs and heart of an 80 year old. He was in his 50s. I ‘knew’ he was fine just before. Turns out I didn’t know, and he most likely suffered a huge heart attack which caused him to fall. His heart was weak but he hadn’t said anything as not to worry us. Over time we looked back at the last few weeks of his life and realised there were small seemingly insignificant moments in those final few weeks like him telling my mom he wouldn’t live to an old age, or the naps he was suddenly taking after work that looking back were signs he was tired. In the beginning we looked back on pictures in disbelief unable to comprehend that he looked so well and then he was suddenly gone. When we looked at those pictures again about 2 years later we were shocked, you can see he was noticeably pale and he looked old all of a sudden, but at the time we were grieving and couldn’t see or think of any clues that he had actually been quite poorly and hadn’t told any of us. When you are desperate and distressed you can only think in one direction, and you cannot think clearly. I was so certain that there was nothing wrong with my dad before he died that I became angry and argued with anyone who said ‘he looked quite poorly when we last saw him’ I’d snap back that no, he wasn’t poorly he was absolutely fine he’d picked my kids up from school and took them for ice cream the day before. I couldn’t even entertain the idea that we’d missed signs that he wasn’t well, because I didn’t want to believe that there had been signs but we just didn’t notice. Eventually once the emotions had stopped overwhelming me, I was able to sit and look back and pin point those small things. I struggled with the fact that we were the closest people to him and none of us had realised there was anything wrong. I think that’s why I refused to believe it, because it then brought a lot of guilt to the surface.

Denial is one of the first stages of grief and though Esther hasn’t been found her family will no doubt be grieving. I understand and empathise with him, it’s a very long and difficult road to acceptance and with Esther still being missing it makes the whole journey of grief even more difficult to process. You never want to give up hope for someone you love.

 

[stmarysmead]

DC’s absolute assertion that she did not have an accident or disappear voluntarily is understandable but as time has gone on he really should think deeply about whether he really knows this for sure. You can’t predict weather or wrong step to end up in a dangerous place, just like peoples’ mental health can change in the blink of an eye.

We ALL say things were fine. When my dad died in a tragic accident all I could say was ‘he was healthy there was nothing wrong with him. I was adamant he must have fallen. Over time it came to light that he knew for along time he was not well, he’d recently had an organ function test and had the lungs and heart of an 80 year old. He was in his 50s. I ‘knew’ he was fine just before. Turns out I didn’t know, and he most likely suffered a huge heart attack which caused him to fall. His heart was weak but he hadn’t said anything as not to worry us. Over time we looked back at the last few weeks of his life and realised there were small seemingly insignificant moments in those final few weeks like him telling my mom he wouldn’t live to an old age, or the naps he was suddenly taking after work that looking back were signs he was tired. In the beginning we looked back on pictures in disbelief unable to comprehend that he looked so well and then he was suddenly gone. When we looked at those pictures again about 2 years later we were shocked, you can see he was noticeably pale and he looked old all of a sudden, but at the time we were grieving and couldn’t see or think of any clues that he had actually been quite poorly and hadn’t told any of us. When you are desperate and distressed you can only think in one direction, and you cannot think clearly. I was so certain that there was nothing wrong with my dad before he died that I became angry and argued with anyone who said ‘he looked quite poorly when we last saw him’ I’d snap back that no, he wasn’t poorly he was absolutely fine he’d picked my kids up from school and took them for ice cream the day before. I couldn’t even entertain the idea that we’d missed signs that he wasn’t well, because I didn’t want to believe that there had been signs but we just didn’t notice. Eventually once the emotions had stopped overwhelming me, I was able to sit and look back and pin point those small things. I struggled with the fact that we were the closest people to him and none of us had realised there was anything wrong. I think that’s why I refused to believe it, because it then brought a lot of guilt to the surface.

Denial is one of the first stages of grief and though Esther hasn’t been found her family will no doubt be grieving. I understand and empathise with him, it’s a very long and difficult road to acceptance and with Esther still being missing it makes the whole journey of grief even more difficult to process. You never want to give up hope for someone you love.

Thank you. Beautifully expressed and sadly very true.

 

[IrisElizabeth]

I think it would help to take into account the emotional experience of the loved ones of a missing person. Perhaps to consider the stages of grief, for example. Shockingly, some humans are not completely logical and self-consistent when under the stress of strong emotions. This is not seen by most people as suspicious, and in some people it evokes emotions called empathy and compassion.

I mentioned this in one of the earlier threads but I have direct experience of this kind of situation myself, and so maybe I am putting myself in DC's shoes too much and questioning his response. I have indeed heard of these emotions called empathy and compassion believe it or not!

 

[stmarysmead]

Very kind of you, @stmarysmead. I have been reluctant to weigh in further on this piece of the puzzle since there may not be much more to consider. But I do think this is an important event in this case - on 02/12/2020. What was going on in the motorhome ten days after ED was last seen by the skier and heard from by DC?

THOUGHTS
Here are my considerations after combing over the facts and images tonight, IMO (reported facts and sources are below):

• I do believe the dog walker witness and the LE - there is no reason to disbelieve their accounts reported to the media; and DC and LBT Global appear satisfied.
  • But... what was going on at 7pm ('lights on') and what was going on at 10pm ('figure laying down') in the motorhome could be two separate events / people
  • And... what if an officer was in the motorhome at 7pm but at 10pm another person(s) was in the motorhome (perhaps attracted to a light left on)?
  • And... what if an officer was in the motorhome at 7pm but at 10pm the light was on, pillows were at odd angles, and it only appears to be a figure on the bed?

• From what has been reported I also believe if there was someone in the motorhome on 2/12 it was not DC.
  • But... if there was a person(s) in the motorhome they would likely have known it was in the obscure location - on the side of a large building with a car park
  • So... what if in a fugue state the person(s) in the motorhome at 10pm was ED, as we know people in dissociative fugue tend to go to familiar places?
  • Or... what if ED had let other people - friends she made while hiking - stay in the motorhome when she was not using it (although that seems far-fetched)?

• With close inspection of the infamous photo - playing with size, color, contrast, clarity, etc. - I actually wonder if the photo shows two people in the motorhome.
  • First... here are pictures of ED in the motorhome (their current Fiat model) relaxing on the bed in the back (5), along with my "little man" image for reference
    • note the skylight in one of them - this could have put some very bright light on the one face I highlight in the image below
    • note the Pooh Bear stuffed animals scattered behind ED - could these have been scattered about the bed and caused strange images in night light? View attachment 283863 View attachment 283864 View attachment 283865 Click on images to enlarge
  • Next... here is the dog walker's image with my notations to show what I see - along with my spouse who I enlisted for 'fresh' eyes tonight...
    • To me there are two possible figures, or none at all!:
      1. a man's face sitting up on the left side, with a light reflecting on the front of his face, possibly through the skylight
      2. a woman's or child's face (or smaller man) in the center of the bed, lying on his/her right side with a white comforter pulled up
      3. or...while the dog walker might have seen lights on in the motorhome at 7pm, maybe at 10pm there was no one there at all and light has tricked us View attachment 283867 Click on image to enlarge

• All that said, one key question remains, IMO: Why did LE impound the motorhome three days after the dog walker reported her observation on 2/12?

• Did LE find something on 2/12 - or need to look more closely at something - or did they just want to protect the motorhome from looters and vandals?
• And if LE did find something, was it related to a voluntary disappearance (with help from someone), suicide or involuntary disappearance (third party)?
• Was Captain Jean-Marc Bordinaro musings about ED possibly disappearing voluntarily (reported by 12/12) at all related to what was found on 2/12?

REPORTED FACTS
Reported 09/12/2020:

"A dog walker... said she first saw the light on in the van... at about 7pm on December 2... However, she became increasingly concerned when saw the figure laying down in the back when she popped out a second time at 10pm. [She] said she was 'fobbed off' when she called the Spanish police [that night]." (1)

"The van was impounded by the Guardia Civil three days after the sighting on December 5 and is parked in the police compound for forensic examination." (1)

"Gendarme Capitaine Jean-Marc Bordinaro, who is leading the French part of the Franco-Spanish investigation... 'Mr Colegate... stayed in a hotel in Spain'" (1)​

Reported 10/12/2020:

"Matt Searle [of LBT Global]:... ‘Daniel and Esther’s family are extremely interested to find out who was inside the camper with the lights on. We are investigating the sighting of someone inside the van on 2 December. They are asking the Guardia Civil to investigate who it was as well.’" (2)​

"Officers... claiming it was a plain clothed forensic officer – working late at night without protective clothing and driving an unmarked vehicle." (2)​

"Police have confirmed that the light seen in the campervan was due to their presence." (3)​

Reported 12/12/2020:

"Speaking to MailOnline earlier in the week, [Captain Jean-Marc] Bordinaro ruled out the possibility that Ms Dingley suffered an accident and hinted at the voluntary act theory... ‘It does not seem probable that Esther suffered an accident, and it is not credible that she was eaten by a bear or that she has fallen into a lake,' he said. ‘We believe that her disappearance is either the result of a voluntary act, or as a result of someone else’s actions[...]. It appears that their (Dingley and Colegate's) lives together were not as happy as the images posted on social media suggest.'" (6)
​

Reported 14/12/2020:

"Much has been made of reports of a light seen in the motorhome. LBT Global has had it confirmed this was due to police activity." (4)​

SOURCES
(1) Dog walker saw someone asleep in Brit hiker Esther Dingley's camper van TEN DAYS after she vanished | Daily Mail Online
(2) Search for Esther Dingley: Spanish police say it's 'impossible' and all but give up | Daily Mail Online
(3) Esther & Dan
(4) https://www.lbt.global/media-releases
(5) Living In A Motorhome With 5 Dogs – What It’s Really Like | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel
(6) Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online

This is such a great post....so well thought out and well researched. It’s given me a lot to think about.

Does it appear that only one light is illuminated? Maybe the one over the bed? I’m assuming there are other lights in the van. Odd that if any kind of forensic work was underway that all the lights in the camper would not be lit.

 

[stmarysmead]

The theory that Dan is in emotional denial is most likely true. But if he were my good friend, my way of showing empathy, would be to encourage him to take a few steps to follow up on his theory that this is a criminal act....that Esther may be alive in in trouble.

Neither he nor the professional search and rescue parties can access the mountains now. It may be months before they can return. Dan, skilled as he is in his sport, must feel helpless. But since he seems to believe she may be alive...and he has other skills, maybe he could redirect his energy and grief in other directions.

Perhaps he could visit some of the surrounding towns...maybe find a venue to address local leaders, put up posters, pass out flyers, go on local tv...as families of many missing people do. Sadly, there is almost a protocol for how missing persons cases are handled today.

I know that some of you might think an effort like this is futile, since she’s probably in the mountains...but I think there’s nothing more debilitating that believing a loved one is in jeopardy and feeling helpless.

I hope those close to him help him organize some outreach like this, IMO, at the least. It would be therapeutic.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I honestly think the only thing that will change Dan’s mind is Esther being found. It takes time, I think the more people keep telling him to consider she’s disappeared voluntarily or had an accident and perished the more he will look for reasons why that can’t be true. It’s desperation, it’s heartbreaking really. I can’t imagine what would be worse to think my loved one had fallen and lay injured in the cold all alone or if she had decided to take her own life. Either of those is so hard to think of because it means accepting she is dead, it’s easier to bargain with yourself that someone must have taken her and is holding her somewhere, because that way there’s a chance she could still be alive. Until Esther is found I think he will hold onto that glimmer of hope that she is alive somewhere, it’s a coping mechanism IMO. I hope she’s found soon for the family’s sake aswell as Esther’s, it’s prolonging their agony, they want answers and rightly so, they deserve to know where Esther is to end their torment.

 

[Seni]

The theory that Dan is in emotional denial is most likely true. But if he were my good friend, my way of showing empathy, would be to encourage him to take a few steps to follow up on his theory that this is a criminal act....that Esther may be alive in in trouble.

Neither he nor the professional search and rescue parties can access the mountains now. It may be months before they can return. Dan, skilled as he is in his sport, must feel helpless. But since he seems to believe she may be alive...and he has other skills, maybe he could redirect his energy and grief in other directions.

Perhaps he could visit some of the surrounding towns...maybe find a venue to address local leaders, put up posters, pass out flyers, go on local tv...as families of many missing people do. Sadly, there is almost a protocol for how missing persons cases are handled today.

I know that some of you might think an effort like this is futile, since she’s probably in the mountains...but I think there’s nothing more debilitating that believing a loved one is in jeopardy and feeling helpless.

I hope those close to him help him organize some outreach like this, IMO, at the least. It would be therapeutic.

OK, but we are not in Dan's shoes.

One thing is grief for a passed relative but how can we imagine the anguish, the panic, the ongoing lack of rest that occurs when relatives or loved ones are left hanging in abyss regarding what could have happened?

That a dossier was compiled for circulation seems - to me - quite exceptional and positive.

I don't think it is reasonable to expect that Dan would undertake a tour of villages in the area.

We know that French and Spanish media covered this case from the beginning. Posters were issued. Articles in local papers.

We know that Esther's language capacities were limited. Probably also those of Dan?

We also know from initial reaction to the French police website that there were hostile reactions from the public, asking why Esther would be doing this hike during a national lockdown.

Dan has not given us reason to believe that the searches carried by SAR were inadaquate.

I can well imagine why Dan has not gone down this route.

 

[otto]

Esther's partner needs to think about the difference between intentional disappearance, voluntary disappearance, accidental disappearance and criminal act. She in missing and vanished disappeared, not displaced in a new life, criminal or otherwise.

Intentional or Voluntary Disappearance:

• suicide, unlikely (intentional)
• ran to a happier life, with/without fugue, never climbing mountains again, unlikely (voluntary)

Accidental Disappearance:

• fall during hike, exploring Sauvegarde summit
• looking for a short cut between Port de Venasque (Sauvegarde summit) and Port de la Glere.

Criminal Act

• she abandoned the hike recommended to her by the friendly man she met on Nov 19, 2020
• ended up hitchhiking in the wrong place at the wrong time Nov 22 after giving up on the hike without telling anyone (unlikely)
• forced of the mountain by a French hunter who is also a criminal (unlikely)

 

[PeggyHenry]

DBM

 

[Normal Norm]

Odd that if any kind of forensic work was underway that all the lights in the camper would not be lit.

Snipped by me for focus.

I suspect that some forensic work would actually be better carried out in the dark. A comprehensive article here has this as its opening paragraph:

"Ultraviolet Light Analysis
Ultraviolet (UV) light technologies are used for multiple purposes in forensic investigations, including authenticating paintings and other fine art, authenticating signatures, analyzing questioned documents , illuminating latent fingerprints at crime scenes and trace evidence on clothing, analyzing ink stains, and revealing residual stains of body fluids."

The rest of the article is technical but very interesting. It doesn't actually say that the presence of other light would reduce the efficacy of the technique, but I suspect it might. I think it is quite likely that the Spanish authorities would have used this technique on the camper van at some stage. If they did, they could have been quite open about it - it is a bog standard procedure. Instead, their explanations have done nothing but raise eyebrows.

 

[Megnut]

Isn't it entirely possible that the light was left on by law enforcement and that the eerie effect created the illusion of a person? In other words, a forensics detective HAD been there, with his unmarked car, and by the time the dogwalker passed by twice, he and his vehicle were gone. Why would there be a head in the middle of the bed?

Maybe it's not so mysterious after all.

JMO

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Isn't it entirely possible that the light was left on by law enforcement and that the eerie effect created the illusion of a person? In other words, a forensics detective HAD been there, with his unmarked car, and by the time the dogwalker passed by twice, he and his vehicle were gone. Why would there be a head in the middle of the bed?

Maybe it's not so mysterious after all.

JMO

That’s kind of what I was thinking. The light was on and it looked like a person. When LE made their statement, perhaps it was just a dismissive ‘it was us’ statement but not well explained thus creating questions. . I am having trouble expressing this but perhaps the story grew legs via the press based on this. Just kind of a thought. MOO

 

[stmarysmead]

Snipped by me for focus.

I suspect that some forensic work would actually be better carried out in the dark. A comprehensive article here has this as its opening paragraph:

"Ultraviolet Light Analysis
Ultraviolet (UV) light technologies are used for multiple purposes in forensic investigations, including authenticating paintings and other fine art, authenticating signatures, analyzing questioned documents , illuminating latent fingerprints at crime scenes and trace evidence on clothing, analyzing ink stains, and revealing residual stains of body fluids."

The rest of the article is technical but very interesting. It doesn't actually say that the presence of other light would reduce the efficacy of the technique, but I suspect it might. I think it is quite likely that the Spanish authorities would have used this technique on the camper van at some stage. If they did, they could have been quite open about it - it is a bog standard procedure. Instead, their explanations have done nothing but raise eyebrows.

This is really good information. The more information we have to fortify or did-el theories, the better.

I think Megnut has a valid point too. Maybe they did just leave the light on and were brusque with the woman who reported it. Also, wasn’t Dec 2 the day they stopped the mountain search due to weather. Their attention may have then begun to focus on the van.

 

[PeggyHenry]

We can only speculate as we have so little information, which is open to many interpretations, but I'm inclined to believe what the dog walker said: there was a person asleep in the back of the van. She probably saw the light on at 7pm and found it strange but just mulled it over in her head. Then when she went out again at 10pm (or whenever it was) she may have been much more inquisitive about it.. I am imagining she would have gone up to a window and looked in - how else would she have known there was someone in there lying very still, as if asleep? I can imagine myself doing this too in a similar circumstance. If there was doubt, wouldn't she have reported it in a less conclusive manner. Her report is very straightforward and included the colour of hair.

We can find all sorts of reasons as to why she was wrong or made a mistake but her report is so straightforward that I'm inclined to believe there was someone asleep in that van. Also, we have seen a photo that she took.. and presumably gave to the police. We dont know if there are more photos that she took which have not been released in the media. Someone was in the van from 7pm - 10pm and even longer perhaps. We are all drawing differing conclusions from the report. In an investigation of this kind, then I do believe the police will have a valid reason for withholding information on this.

 

[otto]

Let's suppose that someone was sleeping in Esther's van a few days after she vanished. What's the theory? Someone harmed her, took her keys, forced her to reveal where the van was parked, caused her to disappear, and then decided to sleep in her van exactly where she parked it while police were searching for her?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Let's suppose that someone was sleeping in Esther's van a few days after she vanished. What's the theory? Someone harmed her, took her keys, forced her to reveal where the van was parked, caused her to disappear, and then decided to sleep in her van exactly where she parked it while police were searching for her?

I’m sure I can hear old Occam spinning in his grave

 

[stmarysmead]

Let's suppose that someone was sleeping in Esther's van a few days after she vanished. What's the theory? Someone harmed her, took her keys, forced her to reveal where the van was parked, caused her to disappear, and then decided to sleep in her van exactly where she parked it while police were searching for her?

Well, here’s a theory up for debate.

Esther hitches a ride with the wrong person. He kills her, disposes of her body, and takes her backpack to salvage some things to sell. He now has the keys to the van. While all focus is on the mountain search, he learns about the “english girl” and “everyone knows about her van.” He becomes emboldened after the van is not impounded and the search continues to be all about disappearing in the mountains.

‘He uses the keys to see if there’s anything else worth selling in the camper. He’s not sleeping but searching under the mattress in the bed area.

LE invents a cover story so as not to interfere with their investigation or have this detail released to media. Dan knows it and agrees to be silent...but this is why he is so certain that there is a criminal explanation.

 

[PeggyHenry]

Well, here’s a theory up for debate.

Esther hitches a ride with the wrong person. He kills her, disposes of her body, and takes her backpack to salvage some things to sell. He now has the keys to the van. While all focus is on the mountain search, he learns about the “english girl” and “everyone knows about her van.” He becomes emboldened after the van is not impounded and the search continues to be all about disappearing in the mountains.

‘He uses the keys to see if there’s anything else worth selling in the camper. He’s not sleeping but searching under the mattress in the bed area.

LE invents a cover story so as not to interfere with their investigation or have this detail released to media. Dan knows it and agrees to be silent...but this is why he is so certain that there is a criminal explanation.

In this scenario I think the criminal would have checked out the van as quickly as possible .. not taken over 3 hours!
But I have no theory really other than someone used the van for that evening and I can’t think of an explanation. Whoever it was had a key and needed shelter or rest and didn’t worry too much about being seen. Or didn’t think anyone was taking notice of the van. The Spanish police were keen for this not to be discussed in the public domain. OR it really was a member of the Spanish police or forensics team.
The good thing is that any forensic examination after that would surely give them some dna of who it was.