State rests rebuttal case- thread #163

[GoodGurl]

I'm rewatching Jodi's testimony

I just watched the video over on the sequence thread. It shows a portion of her testimony where JM is discussing the time of 62 seconds with her. Doesn't she say straight out that she shot him AFTER the dragging picture? Or am I reading something out of context into that?

 

[Arishia]

Jumping off your post here. I agree with you. Due to the large amount of blood on the carpet, I would say he suffered the throat slash there. His heart rate would have been elevated therefore pumping blood at a faster rate, leading to rapid exsanguination. She also cut the Muscles in his neck, from the back and front.

You can see at least one arterial spurt in the blood patterns on the carpet. From the amount of blood on the carpet that we see in crime scene photos, including the blood that soaked down to the subflooring, I think he had already lost a good amount of blood in the hallway and into his chest from his other wounds, perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of his circulating volume. I think the throat slashing took place at the bedroom end of the hallway. I don't see his other wounds bleeding out that much onto one small location on the carpet. That much blood in one small place has to come from a major artery or central vein, or both. just my opinion

 

[Zuri]

Was she trying to decapitate him? Was this brought out in the ME's testimony?

IMO JA wanted him dead and he just would not die quickly enough for her. The throat wound cut off his airway and blood circulation to the brain.

Caution: Graphic:
I have looked at the autopsy photos and report. Regarding the throat wound: IMO she slit his throat from right to left. There is a small "hesitation wound" right upper neck where he probably moved. One incised wound. Very sharp knife. Right side deeper than left. She severed major artery and vein (carotid/jugular) on right side, jugular on left. Arteries pump, veins ooze. When you take your pulse in the neck, that is your carotid artery. She transected his trachea, cutting off air supply. Because of the supporting neck muscles being cut, he would not have been able to support his head. Given the fact that he had been stabbed in the chest, with the knife penetrating the superior vena cava and his lung, he was losing blood internally and he only had one lung working. The severed carotid artery pumped blood outside the body at a rapid rate. He had no chance of recovery at this time. While his brain stem was still intact, he continued to try and breathe and his heart was still beating until there was not enough blood to pump.

I think she intended to make him hurt and make him suffer. Which he did. The gun shot was her insurance that there was no chance at life. At all. The bullet entered his skull and started to tumble, most likely tumbling through his frontal lobe, before descending into his left cheek area. The frontal lobe is responsible in part for decision making, processing, motor, verbal etc. If you take a look at the bullet, you can see the flattened portion of where it struck the frontal bone.

Not only did she premeditate this, she wanted him to suffer. For this reason, I think that is why she used the knife first. She wanted him to experience pain. Sadistic. I had initially thought that she shot him first, but after listening to all the testimony, that scenario would not have accomplished what she had in mind. It would have been too quick.

He did manage to try and protect himself as evidenced by the defensive wounds. When you go through muscle, it is exceedingly painful. The stab wounds to his chest would have him on the ground. First instinct is to splint yourself as a result of a chest injury I.e. tuck. Hence the back stab wounds. The human body instinctively reacts to protect itself, both anatomically and physiologically. Blood vessels react by spasming to try to impede blood loss etc. A whole A&P lesson would be involved, so I won't bore you. The body will do everything to protect breathing and maintain the airway. Notice when you hold your breath while swimming. You can't for very long.

JA cut everything vital to survival. She had planned this out no doubt. The horrific injuries she inflicted were purposeful. So I hope this jury reacts with purpose and sentences her to death. Respectfully, IMO

 

[Quester]

I'm rewatching Jodi's testimony

Oh my ... you are a glutton for punishment!

Please check back in afterward so we know you've survived! We need you here!

 

[ClosArgs]

Does anyone remember exactly what the last computer activity on TA's laptop was on June 4th?

 

[Nali87]

Since we have a long break and we're nearing the end of the trial, I'm going to go watch some videos of testimony from earlier in the trial. Anyone have any suggestions of particularly interesting or exciting trial days?

I find the days when her interogation videos are shown fascinating. You can hear how she's talking normally and even animated like "Listen to this animated tale I'm telling you" and then her voice drops to where she pretend she's all broken up about two people coming in and murdering Travis.

 

[GetJustice]

I've wondered what case the prosecution and police would have used, if Arias did not testify and lie so much in her story. Look how much of the prosecutor's case went to rebut her lies. So take that out and we have what?

I understand what you are thinking. Initially I thought prosecution gave a very direct and dry case, the standard proof murder through ME, show evidence through LE and IT experts. Etc. I thought he could do more and show more. However, during the defense presentation, I came to believe the prosecution had deliberately withheld evidence so the defense will not be trying to come up with plausible explanations. Juan also did not ask questions in chronological order when he was doing the cross, again I believe this is intentional. Juan knew Jodi and other defense witnesses would lie, so he asked questions in “random” order, and their made up stories may sound OK, but would not be cohesive when the stories are put back to the right order, and hence expose the lies and liars.

I appreciate the hard work the prosecution team had put into this case and I think Juan’s strategy is brilliant. This is avery evil defendant, and I am glad Travis have a extremely wonderful prosecution team to fight for his justice.

 

[Kentucky Gal]

Wouldn't it be nice if the guilty party, once convicted was required to PAY ALL LEGAL COSTS incurred by the court BOTH defense and prosecution?

If you cause a problem anywhere else in life you have to pay for it, why not in these types of cases?

Five days to think about it....

I think you are a frickin genius. :rockon::rockon::rockon:

 

[Nali87]

Wouldn't it be nice if the guilty party, once convicted was required to PAY ALL LEGAL COSTS incurred by the court BOTH defense and prosecution?

If you cause a problem anywhere else in life you have to pay for it, why not in these types of cases?

Five days to think about it....

How though? The guilty party would be in jail and not able to generate enough income.

 

[JayB12]

Ive always thought that,ive seen many a beheading video ( dont ask ) and its eerily similar angle etc. You grab by the hair tilt the head slightly back and start hacking away.
Poor travis.
Ive seen a beheading done in about 20 seconds but those are syrian rebels who do those things every day, dear travis would have suffered immensely since jodi wouldnt have (well I hope not) done this before.


Ps please dont think im a weirdo
:innocent:


Pps she needs to die for this
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Its strange...first time I saw one of your posts (seeing you are from Glasgow) and TA's neck wound, I thought...Glasgow Smile...but obviously lower. Both vicious injuries.

You are not a weirdo at all...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Here ya go...

I think as long as you look busy you will be ok at work...

I am getting the server is too busy here at ws... lease:

I am sure this has been discussed before but does anyone have a venture on a reason why Jodi waited so late into the afternoon to commit the murder and risking being caught by the roommate? :stormingmad:

:seeya: Luv the smileys, Harmony !








:seeya:

 

[smeck]

Has anyone seen MM interview with Det Flores---if there is one. It seems to reason that he has many answers about the premeditation and the crime. I know he said he would lie for her but can't they pressure him to give information?

 

[momtective]

IMO JA wanted him dead and he just would not die quickly enough for her. The throat wound cut off his airway and blood circulation to the brain.

Caution: Graphic:
I have looked at the autopsy photos and report. Regarding the throat wound: IMO she slit his throat from right to left. There is a small "hesitation wound" right upper neck where he probably moved. One incised wound. Very sharp knife. Right side deeper than left. She severed major artery and vein (carotid/jugular) on right side, jugular on left. Arteries pump, veins ooze. When you take your pulse in the neck, that is your carotid artery. She transected his trachea, cutting off air supply. Because of the supporting neck muscles being cut, he would not have been able to support his head. Given the fact that he had been stabbed in the chest, with the knife penetrating the superior vena cava and his lung, he was loosing blood internally and he only had one lung working. The severed carotid artery pumped blood outside the body at a rapid rate. He had no chance of recovery at this time. While his brain stem was still intact, he continued to try and breathe and his heart was still beating until there was not enough blood to pump.

I think she intended to make him hurt and make him suffer. Which he did. The gun shot was her insurance that there was no chance at life. At all. The bullet entered his skull and started to tumble, most likely tumbling through his frontal lobe, before descending into his left cheek area. The frontal lobe is responsible in part for decision making, processing, motor, verbal etc. If you take a look at the bullet, you can see the flattened portion of where it struck the frontal bone.

Not only did she premeditate this, she wanted him to suffer. For this reason, I think that is why she used the knife first. She wanted him to experience pain. Sadistic. I had initially thought that she shot him first, but after listening to all the testimony, that scenario would not have accomplished what she had in mind. It would have been too quick.

He did manage to try and protect himself as evidenced by the defensive wounds. When you go through muscle, it is exceedingly painful. The stab wounds to his chest would have him on the ground. First instinct is to splint yourself as a result of a chest injury I.e. tuck. Hence the back stab wounds. The human body instinctively reacts to protect itself, both anatomically and physiologically. Blood vessels react by spasming to try to impede blood loss etc. A whole A&P lesson would be involved, so I won't bore you. The body will do everything to protect breathing and maintain the airway. Notice when you hold your breath while swimming. You can't for very long.

JA cut everything vital to survival. She had planned this out no doubt. The horrific injuries she inflicted were purposeful. So I hope this jury reacts with purpose and sentences her to death. Respectfully, IMO

Thank you! This is exactly why I believe the blood on the carpet was from the chest wound and not the throat wound. The forceful pulsating of the blood leaving the carotid/jugular would have produced serious blood splatter on both walls of the hallway, not just one and all over Jodi and Travis, hence I think she cut his throat in the shower.

 

[JustJudy]

I am getting the server is too busy here at ws... lease:
I am sure this has been discussed before but does anyone have a venture on a reason why Jodi waited so late into the afternoon to commit the murder and risking being caught by the roommate?[/COLOR][/B] :stormingmad:

I've wondered that as well! Why did she wait & risk running into the roommates?

~ perhaps, she hadn't intended to sleep or sleep so long, but after the trip, sex, etc., just passed out from physical & mental fatigue
~ maybe, for a while Travis' words/actions had her rethinking her "need" to kill him.
~ more likely, in my ever changing opinion, I think it just took her that long to manipulate whatever events needed to unfold in order to have Travis in the shower and unaware she was still in (or back in) the house.

 

[dallen555]

Has anyone noticed the 2 bottles of sunscreen on the receipt with the gas can? Jodi must have planned on Cancun.

 

[ElleElle]

Because Flores busted her. And no other DNA was found so no signs of a 3rd party.

So, why didn't JA just stick with the intruder story?

 

[JRS_JD2L]

IMO JA wanted him dead and he just would not die quickly enough for her. The throat wound cut off his airway and blood circulation to the brain.

Caution: Graphic:
I have looked at the autopsy photos and report. Regarding the throat wound: IMO she slit his throat from right to left. There is a small "hesitation wound" right upper neck where he probably moved. One incised wound. Very sharp knife. Right side deeper than left. She severed major artery and vein (carotid/jugular) on right side, jugular on left. Arteries pump, veins ooze. When you take your pulse in the neck, that is your carotid artery. She transected his trachea, cutting off air supply. Because of the supporting neck muscles being cut, he would not have been able to support his head. Given the fact that he had been stabbed in the chest, with the knife penetrating the superior vena cava and his lung, he was losing blood internally and he only had one lung working. The severed carotid artery pumped blood outside the body at a rapid rate. He had no chance of recovery at this time. While his brain stem was still intact, he continued to try and breathe and his heart was still beating until there was not enough blood to pump.

I think she intended to make him hurt and make him suffer. Which he did. The gun shot was her insurance that there was no chance at life. At all. The bullet entered his skull and started to tumble, most likely tumbling through his frontal lobe, before descending into his left cheek area. The frontal lobe is responsible in part for decision making, processing, motor, verbal etc. If you take a look at the bullet, you can see the flattened portion of where it struck the frontal bone.

Not only did she premeditate this, she wanted him to suffer. For this reason, I think that is why she used the knife first. She wanted him to experience pain. Sadistic. I had initially thought that she shot him first, but after listening to all the testimony, that scenario would not have accomplished what she had in mind. It would have been too quick.

He did manage to try and protect himself as evidenced by the defensive wounds. When you go through muscle, it is exceedingly painful. The stab wounds to his chest would have him on the ground. First instinct is to splint yourself as a result of a chest injury I.e. tuck. Hence the back stab wounds. The human body instinctively reacts to protect itself, both anatomically and physiologically. Blood vessels react by spasming to try to impede blood loss etc. A whole A&P lesson would be involved, so I won't bore you. The body will do everything to protect breathing and maintain the airway. Notice when you hold your breath while swimming. You can't for very long.

JA cut everything vital to survival. She had planned this out no doubt. The horrific injuries she inflicted were purposeful. So I hope this jury reacts with purpose and sentences her to death. Respectfully, IMO

BBM. This all makes sense...just curious, where do you put the sink event in your theory if the initial knife wounds (front and back) would have been inflicted while he was on the ground, as you say?

 

[anagrammy]

What puzzles me about this trial, is that it has been 4 years in the making, and still the sequence of events are still somewhat blurred 4years and 4 months into the trial. I still think a lot of the forensic evidence is missing like the bloodied fibres that were found but not considered revelatory and remain untested.
Explanations of blood patterns like the aspirated blood on the bathroom mirror, and a clearer outline of events based on those patterns is missing from the evidence. Duct tape, hasn't been epxlained the confusion of the the two camera cards and who they belonged to and to which camera, remains a mystery because they are not interchangeable. The presence of blood on a possible cord used to upload images, has not been accounted Some photographs recovered from the cameras have not been revealed by the prosecutor, but why? What they might reveal? They can't get any worse surely? Detective Flores also gave JA ample time to dispose of, reorder and conceal further information. He tipped her off too soon.
So, for a few years in the making, the evidence isn't all it's cracked up to be. There are significant gaps in the forensic evidence, which is a little unusual especially when blood distribution clearly tells the story. And 4 years and 4 months later there we are still trying to work it out how it happened, and the prosecutor doesn't know, we don't know. The camera information was wrong wrt to the two sets of cards found. So whomever was talking one card, a different person talked about the other card. Do we know why they were entered into evidence by two separate people, and why that was? how were they collected? Is there a chain of custody. The forensics are not stellar.
But she admits to some things and deserves punishment, but I'm a bit concerned these things are left out.

I agree with you and share your frustration; however, there is a good reason why some things are not chased down to their final resolution. They must use resources (cash) for pursuing issues which speak directly to the key elements of the case. If, in their opinion, they have enough evidence towards Arias being the killer, they will not follow up additional evidence which proves that. Their next focus would be premeditation and if they feel they have enough, they won't pursue more. A good example of this is the lack of interest in the sex or no sex, torture or no torture issues. The aggravating factor of causing great suffering is sufficiently proven by irrefutable photos from the autopsy table, so they don't have to spend Arizona taxpayers' money finding out whether she tortured him before the shower or not.

Sharing your concerns, I find some peace in the above. Like with Diana Downs and other monstrous killers, their complete lack of sympathy and human emotion is horrifying in that same rubber-necking way we can't look away from an accident scene while driving by.

It's as though our instinct for survival makes us want details, makes us want to look, so we know what to avoid for our own safety.

 

[Callisto]

Does the State do their closing argument after the defense does their closing argument? TIA!

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[writer7]

Here ya go...

I think as long as you look busy you will be ok at work...

I am getting the server is too busy here at ws... lease:

I am sure this has been discussed before but does anyone have a venture on a reason why Jodi waited so late into the afternoon to commit the murder and risking being caught by the roommate? :stormingmad:

I think she had it all planned out in fantasy (with practical real-life ideas) to do it in the shower, so she had to wait until he took one.

I think she may have leaned in for a kiss when she first stabbed him in the heart area Something like that. I do think she had a fantasy about what she'd do for a long time, so I think the shower was crucial. She'd thought through the various shower scenarios in detail and prepared for what she'd do and how exactly to do it, imho.