Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Karinna]

Disturbing ? You mean like what Zellner is doing to innocent lives ? You can put me on ignore if you like - I won't be offended.

KZ goes where the evidence leads and if those people involved don't like it, tough for them.

 

[Sustained]

KZ goes where the evidence leads and if those people involved don't like it, tough for them.

There is ZERO evidence anyone committed the murders except for SA/BD.

 

[Karinna]

There is ZERO evidence anyone committed the murders except for SA/BD.

That is not true or factual.
for starters
(quote)
In July 2017, Zellner filed a motion, noting that only one person had a motive, opportunity, and connection to the murder of Teresa Halbach: Ryan Hillegas. The pair had an abusive history—he was angry that they had broken up and she’d had a sexual relationship with her housemate; he misled investigators; he has no alibi for October 31, 2005, the day Halbach was murdered; he had visible injuries to his hands, including fingernail scratches; he knew the password to her cellphone and messages had disappeared; he had unfettered control over her belongings; and he seemed eerily well-informed as to where Teresa’s body would be located.

 

[Karinna]

And this
(quote)
There are a lot of things about the Steven Avery trial that just don’t add up for Kathleen Zellner. Specifically, all the evidence investigators seem to have willfully ignored in their efforts to finger Avery as the killer:

• Mysterious phone calls made to Halbach’s cell phone in the weeks before her murder
• The unusually limited DNA testing done in the investigation
• Two phone calls made from Halbach’s phone to a man arrested in December 2015 on sex abuse charges

“We’ve got access to documents the public doesn’t have. We’ve got all the police reports, we can see exactly what they did and did not do,” Zellner said. “And it’s a lot more about what they did not do.”

 

[Karinna]

And this
(quote)
Cellphone Records Show Halbach Left Avery’s Property before Murder
The biggest piece of evidence Zellner says she uncovered is the cellphone records that show Teresa Halbach left Steven Avery’s property before she was murdered. A fact Avery’s defense team neglected to bring up at trial.

According to the state, Avery shot Halbach in his garage and then burned her body in a pit on the family’s salvage yard.

“So it’s absolutely shocking to see cellphone records that were part of the discovery that were turned over to the defense…document her route leaving the property. She goes back the same way she came, she’s 12 miles from the property on the last ping,” Zellner said.

Zellner also believes that Avery’s defense team didn’t realize that daylight saving time ended on October 30, 2005—the day before Halbach was murdered—and that not all cell phones reset automatically. This means the timeline for two independent witnesses who recall seeing Halbach leave the Avery property…was off by an hour.

 

[Sustained]

That is not true or factual.
for starters
(quote)
In July 2017, Zellner filed a motion, noting that only one person had a motive, opportunity, and connection to the murder of Teresa Halbach: Ryan Hillegas. The pair had an abusive history—he was angry that they had broken up and she’d had a sexual relationship with her housemate; he misled investigators; he has no alibi for October 31, 2005, the day Halbach was murdered; he had visible injuries to his hands, including fingernail scratches; he knew the password to her cellphone and messages had disappeared; he had unfettered control over her belongings; and he seemed eerily well-informed as to where Teresa’s body would be located.

And what happened to that motion ? IIRC, Halbach's brother also had the password to her cell. And Zellner was on the RH/day planner angle as well until she found out TH's cell phone recs put her at home during the morning of 10/31.

 

[Karinna]

And what happened to that motion ? IIRC, Halbach's brother also had the password to her cell. And Zellner was on the RH/day planner angle as well until she found out TH's cell phone recs put her at home during the morning of 10/31.

All KZ's motions and supplements are filed with the courts.
What she is saying is there was so much overlooked by the investigators, etc. in this case. It was a miscarriage of justice in other words, and not normally what would happen in a normal investigation.

 

[Sustained]

And this
(quote)
Cellphone Records Show Halbach Left Avery’s Property before Murder
The biggest piece of evidence Zellner says she uncovered is the cellphone records that show Teresa Halbach left Steven Avery’s property before she was murdered. A fact Avery’s defense team neglected to bring up at trial.

According to the state, Avery shot Halbach in his garage and then burned her body in a pit on the family’s salvage yard.

“So it’s absolutely shocking to see cellphone records that were part of the discovery that were turned over to the defense…document her route leaving the property. She goes back the same way she came, she’s 12 miles from the property on the last ping,” Zellner said.

Zellner also believes that Avery’s defense team didn’t realize that daylight saving time ended on October 30, 2005—the day before Halbach was murdered—and that not all cell phones reset automatically. This means the timeline for two independent witnesses who recall seeing Halbach leave the Avery property…was off by an hour.

Pure speculation - Zellner has no idea where TH was on the last ping. I've seen this refuted somewhere else - will look for it. And the independent witnesses did not see TH leave the property. The propane truck driver said he saw a green vehicle turn out of the ASY but did not which direction. I believe he was not even sure of the day though.

 

[CoolJ]

Listen and for the last time - Zellner has done good work in the past. I happen to think she's dead wrong on this one - if you don't like my opinion, tough.

Perhaps you should take your toys over to the TickTockManitowoc on Reddit. They don't like anybody that thinks SA/BD were properly convicted.

I am more than happy to engage with folks who think it is still possible SA is guilty. No problem with that at all. Those are good discussions we have here at websleuths.

However I refuse to debate with anyone whose only interest is in spouting the states narrative without question or with anyone who is associated with the smear campaign against Zellner.

It is immoral and disturbing.

 

[Karinna]

The whole case is like swiss cheese, full of holes, that needed a proper investigation which is what KZ and her team are and have been doing.

 

[Sustained]

All KZ's motions and supplements are filed with the courts.
What she is saying is there was so much overlooked by the investigators, etc. in this case. It was a miscarriage of justice in other words, and not normally what would happen in a normal investigation.

Even if that were true, it does not mean SA is innocent.

In a way, I'd like to see a retrial so the State could offer BD a reduced sentence to testify against his uncle.
But better yet, I'd like to see SA take the stand.

 

[Karinna]

Far as i know phone pings are very important evidence in criminal cases previously.

 

[Sustained]

I am more than happy to engage with folks who think it is still possible SA is guilty. No problem with that at all. Those are good discussions we have here at websleuths.

However I refuse to debate with anyone whose only interest is in spouting the states narrative without question or with anyone who is associated with the smear campaign against Zellner.

It is immoral and disturbing.

What is it you don't understand ? No one is smearing Zellner and I've said that her past work is exemplary. IMO, she is dead wrong on this one. I watched MaM2 in its entirely and don't buy what the experts are selling. If you can't come to grips with that, I feel for you.

And I never said the State's (KK) narrative was 100% true - but I do believe SA/BD murdered TH and disposed of her body.

 

[Sustained]

Far as i know phone pings are very important evidence in criminal cases previously.

They are if indeed that's what happened and there's a real reason for it.

In this case, the cell phone ping @ 2:41 is meaningless. Steven Avery called TH twice with *67 (2:27 & 2:35pm) supposedly hanging up the 2nd time as he saw TH drive up. Given that SA said TH was there for only 5 minutes, that takes us to 2:40pm. There is no way TH could've been 12 miles from the ASY @ 2:41.

Any cell phone expert would testify that calls/pings do not always use the closest tower.

 

[Karinna]

Even if that were true, it does not mean SA is innocent.

In a way, I'd like to see a retrial so the State could offer BD a reduced sentence to testify against his uncle.
But better yet, I'd like to see SA take the stand.

Just speculation here, but what if Brendan was protecting BoD for some reason & ST because he was scared of him?
I definitely think ST is a scary character, and known for his violence and short temper, as has been documented.

 

[Sustained]

And this
(quote)
There are a lot of things about the Steven Avery trial that just don’t add up for Kathleen Zellner. Specifically, all the evidence investigators seem to have willfully ignored in their efforts to finger Avery as the killer:

• Mysterious phone calls made to Halbach’s cell phone in the weeks before her murder
• The unusually limited DNA testing done in the investigation
• Two phone calls made from Halbach’s phone to a man arrested in December 2015 on sex abuse charges

“We’ve got access to documents the public doesn’t have. We’ve got all the police reports, we can see exactly what they did and did not do,” Zellner said. “And it’s a lot more about what they did not do.”

Wasn't TH sleeping with a married man and cut it off ?

 

[Sustained]

Just speculation here, but what if Brendan was protecting BoD for some reason & ST because he was scared of him?
I definitely think ST is a scary character, and known for his violence and short temper, as has been documented.

I think SA is far scarier than ST but why would BD go to prison for 40 years for his brother ?

 

[CoolJ]

What is it you don't understand ? No one is smearing Zellner and I've said that her past work is exemplary. IMO, she is dead wrong on this one. I watched MaM2 in its entirely and don't buy what the experts are selling. If you can't come to grips with that, I feel for you.

And I never said the State's (KK) narrative was 100% true - but I do believe SA/BD murdered TH and disposed of her body.

I never said I don’t understand anything.

Let me spell it out for you. I am open to discussing this case with anyone with any GENUINE opinion.

After reading your posts for the past little while, I do not believe that you genuinely believe what you are saying. You are clearly here with an agenda: Smear Avery and smear Zellner.

What you are doing is scary & disturbing.

 

[Karinna]

Wasn't TH sleeping with a married man and cut it off ?

Yes but he was still trying to be in touch with her on the 31st. Oct. 2005.

 

[Karinna]

I think SA is far scarier than ST but why would BD go to prison for 40 years for his brother ?

Because maybe Brendan witnessed something BoD did? It will be interesting to see what the luminol testing KZ had done in the Dassey garage yields.