Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[missy1974]

LOL - please produce statements from anyone other than SA that he was in his trailer and home all night.

SA also said he was in his trailer by 9pm and watching TV @ 10 but apparently folks saw him by the fire later than that.

And BD said he helped SA moved the Rav4 to the pit.

And scent dogs are 100% accurate ?

What a joke ...

Proudfootz didn't say he said he was in his trailer all night. Home doesn't necessarily mean inside, if you were outside in your backyard or in a garage all evening, would you say you were "home" or "not home"?

Others saw him by the fire... yeah, weeks later they said this. No one mentioned a fire in their first interviews, in fact, denied that there was a fire that night. Do you believe that memories are better closer to an event or later?

BD said he helped SA... BD said a lot of things that weren't true, still don't know how you decide what to believe and what not to believe. I guess whatever fits the narrative is to be believed, right?

So are scent dogs only accurate when they fit a narrative that you believe?

 

[missy1974]

Spare me the condescension Missy - Zellner is all over the map with her fantasies, cell phone pings, RH having the day planner, witnesses by the dam, blood evidence on the ignition switch.

An expert who Zellner paid ... maybe someday we'll get to hear an expert the state hires but I seriously doubt it as SA will rot in prison.

Zellner is not limited to putting forward more than 1 theory or one alternative suspect. No different than what Strang and Buting tried to do back in 05/06/07 when trying to meet the Denny standards, the difference is that they just didn't do it well IMO.

We have already heard from the State's experts. Do you need a link to their testimony?

 

[missy1974]

BBM - moved it where while taking the chance of being seen driving it ?

He apparently got it there with no one seeing him, what makes you think he couldn't move it away without anyone seeing him?

 

[missy1974]

<modsnip - quoted post and reference to it removed>

1st thread: For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

2nd thread: For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss #2

 

[Tricia]

Let me remind everyone that both sides are allowed in this thread.

If you refuse to back up what you are claiming to be true with something factual then your posts will be removed.

If you post your opinion that is fine as long as we don't need to suspend reality to believe what you are saying.

There are very strong opinions on both sides and, again let me stress, both sides are allowed.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner Websleuths.com

 

[missy1974]

Thank you @Tricia

 

[Sustained]

Proudfootz didn't say he said he was in his trailer all night. Home doesn't necessarily mean inside, if you were outside in your backyard or in a garage all evening, would you say you were "home" or "not home"?

Others saw him by the fire... yeah, weeks later they said this. No one mentioned a fire in their first interviews, in fact, denied that there was a fire that night. Do you believe that memories are better closer to an event or later?

BD said he helped SA... BD said a lot of things that weren't true, still don't know how you decide what to believe and what not to believe. I guess whatever fits the narrative is to be believed, right?

So are scent dogs only accurate when they fit a narrative that you believe?

With all due respect ...

You are deliberately misstating what I said ... did SA lie above having a fire on 10/31 ? Why would he do that

Memories are definitely better closer to an event if the person relaying the memory is telling the truth.

As I have said before, I believe BD had something to do with the murder of TH. Barb asked him in the jailhouse telephone convo and he said "Some of it". Did he have sex with TH or stab her or cut her up ?
Only BD and SA know, but I'm convinced BD was involved somehow.

And I asked if scent dogs are 100% correct ... are they ?

DNA is 100% correct and SA's DNA was in and on the vehicle.

 

[Sustained]

TH's records do show that she hit off a tower near Whitelaw IIRC, which fits with her being near Kuss Rd. when she forwarded her last call that pinged at 2:41pm that day. She had no other calls until 4:35, so we only know that her phone was turned off between 2:41 and 4:34pm IMO I always find it kind of ironic that people that believe SA was responsible will make up an excuse for the last ping, yet believe all the other pings, like her being home all morning because of the tower's she was pinging off of. I do think she was home until shortly before 1pm, and I don't believe everything that KZ believes or has put out there.

Google Maps

Since the ASY is less than a mile from Kuss Road it is entirely possible that TH's car was still at the ASY for the 2:41pm ping. SA called her @ 2:35 and said he hung up because she had arrived. I don't believe she ever left.

 

[Sustained]

Zellner is not limited to putting forward more than 1 theory or one alternative suspect. No different than what Strang and Buting tried to do back in 05/06/07 when trying to meet the Denny standards, the difference is that they just didn't do it well IMO.

We have already heard from the State's experts. Do you need a link to their testimony?

Thanks actually I don't because SA is behind bars. If and when there's a retrial, I'll be looking for the State to pay for top experts that fit heir narrative just like Zellner did.

 

[Sustained]

And here is the alternative for those open enough to look at both sides

1st thread: For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

2nd thread: For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss #2

Thanks, already been there. I was in that camp once, remember ?

 

[Sustained]

He apparently got it there with no one seeing him, what makes you think he couldn't move it away without anyone seeing him?

He moved it within the ASY w/o being seen. I was referring to taking it off ASY property.

 

[CoolJ]

Let me remind everyone that both sides are allowed in this thread.

If you refuse to back up what you are claiming to be true with something factual then your posts will be removed.

If you post your opinion that is fine as long as we don't need to suspend reality to believe what you are saying.

There are very strong opinions on both sides and, again let me stress, both sides are allowed.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner Websleuths.com

Oh there has been some suspension of reality in this thread, no doubt. Thanks Tricia!

 

[CoolJ]

Thanks actually I don't because SA is behind bars. If and when there's a retrial, I'll be looking for the State to pay for top experts that fit heir narrative just like Zellner did.

They won't be able to find "top" experts to fit their narrative. As i said before, most professionals in their fields have integrity. I'm sure you can find someone with a Phd to say whatever you want them to say. That is called corruption.
However, if you want the leading experts in a particular field, they tell YOU their opinion. That is what Zellner has, the leading experts in their chosen fields.

The state will not be able to match Zellners experts.

 

[proudfootz]

LOL - please produce statements from anyone other than SA that he was in his trailer and home all night.

Since every witness places him at his home it would be pure speculation on your part to suggest he was anywhere else - FACT.

SA also said he was in his trailer by 9pm and watching TV @ 10 but apparently folks saw him by the fire later than that.

So everyone agrees Steven was at home - FACT.

And BD said he helped SA moved the Rav4 to the pit.

Zero statements among the many mutually conflicting stories about leaving Avery property - FACT.

And scent dogs are 100% accurate ?

They found the grave, bones, and burn sites at the quarry, so it looks like in this case yes - FACT.

LOL!

 

[missy1974]

With all due respect ...

You are deliberately misstating what I said ... did SA lie above having a fire on 10/31 ? Why would he do that

Memories are definitely better closer to an event if the person relaying the memory is telling the truth.

As I have said before, I believe BD had something to do with the murder of TH. Barb asked him in the jailhouse telephone convo and he said "Some of it". Did he have sex with TH or stab her or cut her up ?
Only BD and SA know, but I'm convinced BD was involved somehow.

And I asked if scent dogs are 100% correct ... are they ?

DNA is 100% correct and SA's DNA was in and on the vehicle.

I did NOT deliberately misstate anything. Please point me to exactly what you think I misstated that you said.

I don't know what SA has lied about, I think I have stated this before. I also do not know anything more than you about the fire on the 31st, I know what everyone said in the beginning, I saw the progression of how the fire got larger as the interviews went on, I know what Radandt has stated about the fire, I know what is available to us in the documents, I still cannot say with certainty that there was a fire or not that night, that is my judgement call based on everything I have read, including SA's statements and Zellner's motions.

I do not believe that scent dogs are 100% accurate, or cadaver dogs, I do believe there are some good threads here on websleuths that may answer that question (might be in the Parking lot)

DNA maybe 100%, but let's be real here, there is way more to this case than clear cut "his DNA was there, so case closed". There are more factors involved, including planting, the lab, transporting of evidence, etc. I wish it was just that clear, but it's not IMO.

 

[proudfootz]

DNA is 100% correct and SA's DNA was in and on the vehicle.

With all due respect ...

Steven's DNA was allegedly found on swabs - FACT.

 

[missy1974]

He moved it within the ASY w/o being seen. I was referring to taking it off ASY property.

Right. And you said:
BBM - moved it where while taking the chance of being seen driving it ?

Implying that he wouldn't chance it lol He already successfully did it once, why not take that chance? he could have moved it anywhere that wasn't ON the property, lots of options IMO.

 

[missy1974]

With all due respect ...

Steven's DNA was allegedly found on swabs - FACT.

Good point lol There are so many factors in this case that just don't make it so clear cut. I have followed many many cases over the years and I don't recall anything even remotely like this where LE, experts, lab techs reports are questionable like this. Crazy to me

 

[proudfootz]

Right. And you said:
BBM - moved it where while taking the chance of being seen driving it ?

Implying that he wouldn't chance it lol He already successfully did it once, why not take that chance? he could have moved it anywhere that wasn't ON the property, lots of options IMO.

Lake Michigan was right there - if Steven did in fact commit some crime against Teresa that necessitated disposing of her vehicle he need not even crush the car and keep it near his own home while police scoured the property. It could be at the bottom of the lake with about zero chance of its ever being discovered.

 

[proudfootz]

Good point lol There are so many factors in this case that just don't make it so clear cut. I have followed many many cases over the years and I don't recall anything even remotely like this where LE, experts, lab techs reports are questionable like this. Crazy to me

Given Culhane's incompetence and her lab's poor performance including drunkenness on the job and fraud I can't see any sensible person putting 100% faith in their 'findings'.