Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm still waiting for Zellner to impress me.

I read some of her motions a while back and 95% consisted of "evidence" that was solely statements made by Steven Avery.

Why should I believe him? He has a very good reason to make all of the things he said. JMO

Hi Ranch!

Surely she had much more than the words of a murder defendant who has more vested interest to lie than anyone?

Imo she will get no where with the appellate judges by trying to make SA seem credible.

Imo they are never that impressed with only the words of any defendants. They want to see hard proof and hard evidence.

Over the years I have seen judges say if they believed all of the defendants who claim to be innocent the prisons would all be empty. Lol!

You mean after all this time she hasn't produced any verified actual evidence exonerating Avery?

The way she has talked in the past I thought this would have wrapped up rather quickly one way or the other or at least by now for sure.

Oh since one of the major defense claims has been LE planted the blood in the victim's vehicle by using the old vial of his blood what did that retesting reveal to KZ?

That would be a very simple test to run now even easier than when tested years ago.

The additive would always be present when a nurse draws blood into the vial that always has the additive in it.

So I know that had to be the very first piece of evidence she asked to be retested.

That is just forensic 101 since it was such a major deal with the defense all along who insisted it had been tampered with in order to frame SA.. Just that retesting result alone would at least get him a new trial and KZ knows it.

I havent been able to read all of KZs motions on the blood vial retesting and if his blood in her vehicle showed the same additive present.

Ranch would you please tell me the results on that particular piece of evidence she had retested? Did the blood found in her vehicle belonging to SA have the additive in it and was she able to determine the vial had been used to put or plant his blood there?

I have always felt retesting the blood of his found in THs vehicle was the most important piece of evidence KZ had to prove her case either for a retrial or even a full exoneration..

Doesn't the prosecutor have to be notified of what tests have been run on any evidence that has been retested and the results?

That only seems fair and if the state has tested other evidence since the trial dont they have to notify the defense attorney and turnover the results to them as well?

After all what should be most important to both sides and even the public is to know the real truth with nothing being hidden by the state or by the defense.

Tia

 

[Sustained]

It is BoD who is lying. He lied under oath at a murder trial. Until he clears that up, any accusations against him are to be fully expected.
I am not on the BoD killed her train as of now. But he needs to explain why he commited perjury at the murder trial of Teresa Halbach.

Whose train are you on ? The passengers have all left the train and Zellner herself has cleared LE. Got any good theories you can spring on us ?

 

[CoolJ]

Go listen to his 11/6/05 interview from Crivitz and how he says Halbach turned left out of the property. Same thing Avery said time and time again. And then Brendan says she turned right. Oops - uncle Stevie gonna be mad at me.

Are you replying to me? because you didn't even attempt to respond to the point i made.

In fact, i proposed 3 questions to you over a month ago with regards to Bobby lying under oath. Still waiting on a reply for those.

 

[CoolJ]

Whose train are you on ? The passengers have all left the train and Zellner herself has cleared LE. Got any good theories you can spring on us ?

I do not need to "spring any theories". It is as clear as day the alleged murder didn't happen the way Kratz fantasised.

My stance is firm - In the interests of justice for Teresa Halbach, a new trial is absolutely crucial.

 

[CoolJ]

I'm still waiting for Zellner to impress me.

I read some of her motions a while back and 95% consisted of "evidence" that was solely statements made by Steven Avery.

Why should I believe him? He has a very good reason to make all of the things he said. JMO

RANCH my friend. I don't know where you are getting this 95% coming from statements made by Avery. His affidavits are a miniscule portion of her current appeal. She has numerous world renowned experts willing to testify about each piece of evidence that was used to frame Avery.

 

[entrustEd]

Go listen to his 11/6/05 interview from Crivitz and how he says Halbach turned left out of the property. Same thing Avery said time and time again. And then Brendan says she turned right. Oops - uncle Stevie gonna be mad at me.

Brendan didn't have a handle on the truth about TH, HE WASN'T THERE until 3:45!

He clearly was going on account from Bobby or other family members like Barb and Scott, and it seems unknowingly saying falsehoods, to protect Bobby.
From listening to interviews with Brendan, I felt he is a protective individual of his family.

 

[CoolJ]

Whose train are you on ? The passengers have all left the train and Zellner herself has cleared LE. Got any good theories you can spring on us ?

Also, Zellner has not "cleared" LE. You are incorrect - yet again.

 

[missy1974]

Hi


Hi @missy1974

I didn’t know you weren’t 100% convinced of SA innocence, there’s so much to take in and how does anybody work out who told the truth and who didn’t?! What do you struggle believing?

I agree, some of KZ theories are hard to digest, personally I’d find it more believeable if she had carried on with the police planting the blood. I do believe without doubt that the key was planted though, does anyone know here why it was only the key and lanyard? Why not the whole set of keys? I’ve noticed from previous threads that your knowledge of this case and providing links is exceptional so appreciate the offer of help if needed.

Knowing what and who to believe is the biggest problem in this case IMO And I don't just mean witnesses, I mean LE, the families, the suspects, it is crazy and I have followed many cases before this one. Just reading the early interviews, you will see how the fire went from not being there to growing to 12 feet high over the months ... so what do we believe? Early statements are usually more accurate than later ones, so I tend to look at the earliest statements, but even then... it's hard lol

The key was the first thing for me... I do believe they planted the key. So if you can believe they planted the key, why is it not believable that they could plant any other evidence? She did have a "set" of keys that have never been recovered. She had a key to her home, her garage, the school where she coached her sisters volleyball team, her studio. Her purse was also never recovered. I get that it could have been burned, BUT I have never owned a purse that didn't have a zipper or other metal components, they would have been recovered.

The blood... I was going to put it in my last post but was already rambling haha I think that KZ may have given up on the LE planting the blood for now only because she wants access to the RAV4 and other evidence. If she ever gets access to the RAV4, she will be able to do more testing, which means she can change her "theory" again afterwards. Purely my opinion though.

And the kicker for me with this case is.... the dang bones and burn pit. The burn pit was so poorly handled and investigated and I don't understand why. They didn't even take proper pictures of the scene.

And then of course the lawsuit ... it's hard to ignore the lawsuit in all of this.

I have a pretty good memory... it helps when looking up stuff in all of the documents ;-)

 

[CoolJ]

Knowing what and who to believe is the biggest problem in this case IMO And I don't just mean witnesses, I mean LE, the families, the suspects, it is crazy and I have followed many cases before this one. Just reading the early interviews, you will see how the fire went from not being there to growing to 12 feet high over the months ... so what do we believe? Early statements are usually more accurate than later ones, so I tend to look at the earliest statements, but even then... it's hard lol

The key was the first thing for me... I do believe they planted the key. So if you can believe they planted the key, why is it not believable that they could plant any other evidence? She did have a "set" of keys that have never been recovered. She had a key to her home, her garage, the school where she coached her sisters volleyball team, her studio. Her purse was also never recovered. I get that it could have been burned, BUT I have never owned a purse that didn't have a zipper or other metal components, they would have been recovered.

The blood... I was going to put it in my last post but was already rambling haha I think that KZ may have given up on the LE planting the blood for now only because she wants access to the RAV4 and other evidence. If she ever gets access to the RAV4, she will be able to do more testing, which means she can change her "theory" again afterwards. Purely my opinion though.

And the kicker for me with this case is.... the dang bones and burn pit. The burn pit was so poorly handled and investigated and I don't understand why. They didn't even take proper pictures of the scene.

And then of course the lawsuit ... it's hard to ignore the lawsuit in all of this.

I have a pretty good memory... it helps when looking up stuff in all of the documents ;-)

If one believes LE planted evidence in a murder trial. Is there any other reasonable conclusion than, at the very least, a new trial?

 

[entrustEd]

Prove that Kayla lied to the school counselor.

Prove what? This is a discussion forum, not a court of law.

Thank you by the way, I've learned more from the case record after your statements here, and the record is corroborating my opinion on the killer

 

[missy1974]

Why would she go to the school counselor in the 1st place if Brendan had not said something to her ?

Do you know what she told the school counselor?

 

[missy1974]

@oceanblueeyes

The blood samples that were given to KZ were not large enough to do the age testing on the blood. I don't think she ever intended to do further EDTA testing. She has not been given access to the RAV4, only the swabs.

IIRC part of the agreement with the State when she was doing any testing was that they had someone present and yes all results were given to the State.

 

[entrustEd]

BBM it's in his testimony, he says he didn't hear the phone ring and didn't hear or check for messages. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Trial-Transcript-Day-3-2007Feb14.pdf#page=41


Thanks for listening to it lol I started last night again, and was to lazy to find my headphones to listen to it! Did you get the impression that Bobby showed up while they were still recording? From what I have read about the audio, I don't think he did, but we know he did show up that day eventually. Another interesting part of the audio that was transcribed was that Barb knew and didn't care that he was selling the van (courtesy of Nexious on reddit for transcribing)

QUESTION: Umm, do you remember mentioning that the Saturday before, uh, this all came about, that you had an argument of some sort with Steven about why--hey, why are you even puttin' this thing in Auto Trader? Do you remember about what time that was, or when that was?

BARB: No.

QUESTION: Umm, you had said that it was before he left--

BARB: I didn't have an argument with him, I just told him.

QUESTION: Well what did you ask him, or what did you tell him?

BARB: I asked him why he was putting it in there. 'Cause it's not good anyhow.

QUESTION: What do you think that van was worth?

BARB: I don't know. Couldn't tell you. That's why he--

QUESTION: Did you guys discuss it at all?

BARB: That's why he always did it. He's put in a lot of cars in Auto Trader already.

QUESTION: Did he--did he ask you or how did it go to decide "hey, let's sell this vehicle and put it in the newspaper," or whatever?

BARB: It was no use to me.

QUESTION: Okay. So I guess, what I'm asking is--did you, did you ask him? Did he ask you? Did you guys just think that--

BARB: He asked me.

QUESTION: And what did he ask you?

BARB: If he should. I told him, do what he's gotta do. I says it really doesn't pay though.

QUESTION: He asked you if he should sell it or put it in the paper?

BARB: Put it in the magazine.

QUESTION: And what did you say?

BARB: I told him it didn't make a difference, but what for? Didn't pay.

QUESTION: Do you know how much it costs to put those ads in?

BARB: Forty dollars. It's all--the van and everything is underneath my name.

QUESTION: All right. Did you pay that fourty dollars?

BARB: No, he did. I gotta pay him back. But right now I got a hard time going myself. Four boys I'm supporting. And a house mortgage.

QUESTION: It's tough.

BARB: Yeah it is, plus I'm going through a divorce.

QUESTION: Did, uh, did he tell you that he paid for it?

BARB: I think he did. Otherwise she wouldn't had took the pictures.

QUESTION: Did she get the pictures taken?

BARB: I don't know. Bobby said that she was out there taking pictures, so.

QUESTION: Bobby saw her?

BARB: Bobby saw her taking pictures, I guess. I wasn't home.

Thanks Missy, I will listen to testimony later.

I did hear the part about the van

 

[missy1974]

A previous client of Zellner's, Latheirial Boyd, is suing her. Here is a link to what is available right now... there is an article in there that partially explains it but I think it comes down to a procedural mistake. JMO

Lathierial Boyd - Google Drive

 

[Sustained]

Are you replying to me? because you didn't even attempt to respond to the point i made.

In fact, i proposed 3 questions to you over a month ago with regards to Bobby lying under oath. Still waiting on a reply for those.

Refresh my memory - what did Bobby lie about and how is it relevant to how Avery/Dassey raped and murdered Teresa ?

 

[Sustained]

A previous client of Zellner's, Latheirial Boyd, is suing her. Here is a link to what is available right now... there is an article in there that partially explains it but I think it comes down to a procedural mistake. JMO

Lathierial Boyd - Google Drive

Zellner made another mistake ?

 

[Sustained]

Prove what? This is a discussion forum, not a court of law.

Thank you by the way, I've learned more from the case record after your statements here, and the record is corroborating my opinion on the killer

Ah, the court of public opinion with no evidence. Carry on.

 

[Sustained]

If one believes LE planted evidence in a murder trial. Is there any other reasonable conclusion than, at the very least, a new trial?

I don't believe any evidence was planted so no need for a new trial. Do you have any proof evidence was planted ?

 

[Sustained]

Do you know what she told the school counselor?

Not exactly as I wasn't there and neither were you. But it certainly sent LE in Brendan's direction and look what they found. A participant to the murder of Teresa Halbach ...

 

[Sustained]

I do not need to "spring any theories". It is as clear as day the alleged murder didn't happen the way Kratz fantasised.

My stance is firm - In the interests of justice for Teresa Halbach, a new trial is absolutely crucial.

Teresa Halbach already has justice but it's been 13+ years and no one has identified an alternate theory of who killed Teresa. And a new trial is your opinion only.