Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Sustained]

Also, Zellner has not "cleared" LE. You are incorrect - yet again.

According to the Newsweek article, she claims she's "cleared" them LOL. Coincidentally right after Colborn filed his lawsuit.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Knowing what and who to believe is the biggest problem in this case IMO And I don't just mean witnesses, I mean LE, the families, the suspects, it is crazy and I have followed many cases before this one. Just reading the early interviews, you will see how the fire went from not being there to growing to 12 feet high over the months ... so what do we believe? Early statements are usually more accurate than later ones, so I tend to look at the earliest statements, but even then... it's hard lol

The key was the first thing for me... I do believe they planted the key. So if you can believe they planted the key, why is it not believable that they could plant any other evidence? She did have a "set" of keys that have never been recovered. She had a key to her home, her garage, the school where she coached her sisters volleyball team, her studio. Her purse was also never recovered. I get that it could have been burned, BUT I have never owned a purse that didn't have a zipper or other metal components, they would have been recovered.

The blood... I was going to put it in my last post but was already rambling haha I think that KZ may have given up on the LE planting the blood for now only because she wants access to the RAV4 and other evidence. If she ever gets access to the RAV4, she will be able to do more testing, which means she can change her "theory" again afterwards. Purely my opinion though.

And the kicker for me with this case is.... the dang bones and burn pit. The burn pit was so poorly handled and investigated and I don't understand why. They didn't even take proper pictures of the scene.

And then of course the lawsuit ... it's hard to ignore the lawsuit in all of this.

I have a pretty good memory... it helps when looking up stuff in all of the documents ;-)

Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed response. That’s the thing, if KZ was still implying LE planted the blood, I’d be more on board with the framing theory. The fact that she’s changed this completely makes me wonder if he was framed at all, or by LE at least.

I agree most statements are more accurate the more recent they are and our memories can change with time, listening to others accounts etc, but I still don’t get why SA never told LE that BD came over? He was the alibi he sorely needed, it doesn’t make sense unless it was something he didn’t want LE to know.

I agree the whole investigation was not handled correctly from the get go, and the fact that the bones weren’t photographed and documented as they should have been was highly suspect.

As I said earlier, apart from reading here and reddit and recently starting to read through the website, I’m pretty new to this case so I’m still learning as I go. Did SA or BD ever do a lie detector that you know of? I know they’re rarely used in court but it would have given them some benefit of the doubt if they had and passed, especially given that he had took one and passed in his wrongful conviction.

I do feel ultimately that given the investigation imo wasn’t handled properly and even though I do feel slightly more confident in him being guilty, that KZ has raised reasonable doubt that he does deserve a retrial. IMO

 

[CoolJ]

According to the Newsweek article, she claims she's "cleared" them LOL. Coincidentally right after Colborn filed his lawsuit.

Read the article a little more intently. Has she cleared them of planting evidence or just specific items?

 

[Sustained]

I do feel ultimately that given the investigation imo wasn’t handled properly and even though I do feel slightly more confident in him being guilty, that KZ has raised reasonable doubt that he does deserve a retrial. IMO

Zellner has only raised reasonable doubt in the minds of truthers who were enamored by her and "scientific tests" in MaM2. Unfortunately for her, the appeals courts haven't feel the same way in the last 3 years.

 

[CoolJ]

I don't believe any evidence was planted so no need for a new trial. Do you have any proof evidence was planted ?

Yes, common sense.

Colborn lied on the stand about the key. The before and after pictures of the key prove that without a doubt. The key was clearly planted. Common sense.

The locations of the blood in the RAV strongly suggest they did not get there organically. Zellner even has a world renowned blood spatter expert to testify to that fact. The blood was clearly planted. Common sense.

The bullet was also clearly planted and you know exactly why because this has been discussed ad nauseum. Why do we have to keep going over and over and over all of this?

The proof is there - you just have to be willing to look at it intently and with an open mind.

 

[missy1974]

Not exactly as I wasn't there and neither were you. But it certainly sent LE in Brendan's direction and look what they found. A participant to the murder of Teresa Halbach ...

I am going to say this as respectfully as I can...

You are basing opinions on something that you aren't even sure about. There is trial testimony available, there are documents available. Kayla did NOT say anything to the counsellor about Brendan specifically.

Kayla gave a written statement to LE AFTER Brendan was arrested, and AFTER KK held his "remove the children from the room" press conference. If you want to go ahead and believe what she said then and not what she said at trial and has continued to say even now, then go ahead, it doesn't change the FACTS.

Here is the school counsellor's testimony:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dassey-Trial-Transcripts.pdf#page=697

Q And what did she tell you?
A She told us that she was scared, urn, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.
Q All right. What else, if anything, did she tell you about that?
A She also said she was scared about going to the shop, urn, and she, specifically, asked if blood can come up through concrete.
Q All right. Now, was -- Did she identify which of her cousins may have been asked by her uncle, Steven Avery, to move this body?
A No.

Now, lets recall that there was a "joke" between MO and SA that Bobby overheard about helping to move a body. She was concerned about going to the "shop"... somewhere in the discussions over the years, I believe it was determined that this was something that Earl (her dad) said, but I will say JMO because I don't think that was something in the documents, it may have come from Kayla herself in later discussions. She talked freely on FB for awhile before KZ asked the family to stop. I recall her posting that Brendan didn't tell her anything and that Wiegert put it all in her head, I may even still have a screenshot of it or it's posted in one of the many threads here.

ETA: LE was reinterviewing all of the family members in February (right after SA hired Strang) IMO Brendan was the weakest link.

 

[CoolJ]

Teresa Halbach already has justice but it's been 13+ years and no one has identified an alternate theory of who killed Teresa. And a new trial is your opinion only.

Nobody has to provide an alternate theory. Only that SA was framed. This has been proven in my mind 100%. It is unfortunate you can't see it.

 

[CoolJ]

Refresh my memory - what did Bobby lie about and how is it relevant to how Avery/Dassey raped and murdered Teresa ?

Bobby lied. 100% he lied. I asked you numerous times to respond to 3 points i made regarding his lies under oath but you ignored or deflected each time. I will leave it to you to go back and find those posts if you wish to make an argument against it.

 

[CoolJ]

Zellner has only raised reasonable doubt in the minds of truthers who were enamored by her and "scientific tests" in MaM2. Unfortunately for her, the appeals courts haven't feel the same way in the last 3 years.

Incorrect again. The general public had overwhelming doubt before Zellner came on board and long before MaM2.

 

[missy1974]

@MummyRatcliffe

SA did not take a lie detector that I recall. I think LE asked him in one of his early interviews if he would take one and he made a comment about 'what good would that do', because he did take one and pass in his earlier wrongful conviction. I will say JMO because I'm not going to go look it up haha

Brendan did. This was complicated by the investigator, Mike O'Kelley, who his lawyer Kachinsky, hired. I believe he passed the lie detector test but MO told him he did not.

Here is a great analysis of Brendan's lie detector test, and the circumstances surrounding it and what happened afterwards:

PolygraphtestDassey

Here are his test results, but unless you know how to read them, they are meaningless IMO
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...aring-Exhibit-231-Dassey-Polygraph-Charts.pdf

 

[Sustained]

Read the article a little more intently. Has she cleared them of planting evidence or just specific items?

She has no authority to clear anyone of anything. They have been charged with a crime. How arrogant to even state such a thing.

 

[Sustained]

Incorrect again. The general public had overwhelming doubt before Zellner came on board and long before MaM2.

Oh yes, I forgot about the biased docudrama MaM1.

 

[Sustained]

Nobody has to provide an alternate theory. Only that SA was framed. This has been proven in my mind 100%. It is unfortunate you can't see it.

Prove it in a court of law. Oh wait ... you have to have a new trial for that lol.

It's unfortunate you can't see that Avery & Dassey raped, murdered, and burned Teresa Halbach.

 

[Sustained]

Bobby lied. 100% he lied. I asked you numerous times to respond to 3 points i made regarding his lies under oath but you ignored or deflected each time. I will leave it to you to go back and find those posts if you wish to make an argument against it.

I have no desire to go back as Bobby is not under indictment for anything. He said that he saw Teresa walking toward Avery's trailer - I believe him.

 

[Sustained]

Yes, common sense.

Colborn lied on the stand about the key. The before and after pictures of the key prove that without a doubt. The key was clearly planted. Common sense.

The locations of the blood in the RAV strongly suggest they did not get there organically. Zellner even has a world renowned blood spatter expert to testify to that fact. The blood was clearly planted. Common sense.

The bullet was also clearly planted and you know exactly why because this has been discussed ad nauseum. Why do we have to keep going over and over and over all of this?

The proof is there - you just have to be willing to look at it intently and with an open mind.

Common sense is what is lacking on your part. Avery was the last person to see Teresa alive. Dassey confessed. Avery's DNA in car and on hood latch. Halbach's personal effects in Avery's burn barrel. Avery took the afternoon off for a 5-minute visit with a photographer. According to himself, Avery called Halbach's phone @ 4:35pm to come back a photo a loader in the dark. But couldn't think of it in the entire time he was off after 11am. Avery never told police or the media about the blood being stolen from his sink the night of 11/3. Avery's past history with women.

You need more ? Go read the Joe Evans letter.

I really don't care if you want to keep going over it or not. It's obvious you can't see the forest for the trees and wouldn't believe Avery killed Halbach even if he confessed.

The sad thing for you and the truthers is that the fat pig and his sidekick have been locked up where they belong for 11+ years and are not getting out. Everything Zellner has filed has been denied for 3 years. Can't wait to see this latest brief slapped down - if she even files it.

 

[missy1974]

somewhat OT... I have been following the Kelsey Berreth case, she went missing on Thanksgiving day, fiance was arrested just before Christmas. They are conducting a hearing this afternoon, and one of the motions deals with "consumptive testing". The State has something they want to test, but the testing will destroy the evidence and it won't be able to be tested again. It reminds me of the bullet and SC's testing, and the defense being denied to be present for the testing AND look what happened...

I am interested to see how the judge in Colorado will rule on whether the Defense can have an expert present or not.

 

[CoolJ]

She has no authority to clear anyone of anything. They have been charged with a crime. How arrogant to even state such a thing.

Oh so now it is because she has no authority to clear them. A few minutes ago it was she "cleared" them.

Which one are you going with?

And it is her investigation, therefore she does have the authority.

 

[CoolJ]

I have no desire to go back as Bobby is not under indictment for anything. He said that he saw Teresa walking toward Avery's trailer - I believe him.

Like i said - I made three points about how he lied under oath.

Not only can you not make an argument against it, you are unwilling to even look.

Confirmation bias in full effect.

 

[Sustained]

I am going to say this as respectfully as I can...

You are basing opinions on something that you aren't even sure about. There is trial testimony available, there are documents available. Kayla did NOT say anything to the counsellor about Brendan specifically.

Kayla gave a written statement to LE AFTER Brendan was arrested, and AFTER KK held his "remove the children from the room" press conference. If you want to go ahead and believe what she said then and not what she said at trial and has continued to say even now, then go ahead, it doesn't change the FACTS.

Here is the school counsellor's testimony:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Dassey-Trial-Transcripts.pdf#page=697

Q And what did she tell you?
A She told us that she was scared, urn, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.
Q All right. What else, if anything, did she tell you about that?
A She also said she was scared about going to the shop, urn, and she, specifically, asked if blood can come up through concrete.
Q All right. Now, was -- Did she identify which of her cousins may have been asked by her uncle, Steven Avery, to move this body?
A No.

Now, lets recall that there was a "joke" between MO and SA that Bobby overheard about helping to move a body. She was concerned about going to the "shop"... somewhere in the discussions over the years, I believe it was determined that this was something that Earl (her dad) said, but I will say JMO because I don't think that was something in the documents, it may have come from Kayla herself in later discussions. She talked freely on FB for awhile before KZ asked the family to stop. I recall her posting that Brendan didn't tell her anything and that Wiegert put it all in her head, I may even still have a screenshot of it or it's posted in one of the many threads here.

ETA: LE was reinterviewing all of the family members in February (right after SA hired Strang) IMO Brendan was the weakest link.

Brendan was the weakest link because he participated in the rape, murder and burning of Teresa Halbach.
Kayla was obviously manipulated by her family, just like Avery manipulated Brendan. She denied saying anything on the stand after her family had months to brainwash her.

 

[Sustained]

Like i said - I made three points about how he lied under oath.

Not only can you not make an argument against it, you are unwilling to even look.

Confirmation bias in full effect.

You should know all about bias with MaM1 and MaM2.