Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[RANCH]

Lol. A report about anything. When it happened, not months or years later.

A report for verifying a plate number? Why would he do that?

 

[SavageMarkIII]

I'm having difficulty finding any description of this spreadsheet other than saying it has 'handwritten' notes on it. Thus far I've come up dry as to whether they were entered into some computer program with a stylus or directly on the printout in pencil or ink.

I'm not sure what episode of MAM2 it is, but Zellner has copies of actual pages of the planner. It looks like it's from a hardcopy ring binder planner, the kind where you open it and the 2 pages have the days of the week across them. Dayrunner or At-A-Glance would be examples of the kind of planner. Her planner was not a electronic device nor a PDA.

MAM2 then shows a tv interview with Scott Bloedorn standing outside of I believe TH's residence speaking with reporters, and holding pages, supposedly from TH's planner, that looked like what Kathleen Zellner has and showed on the documentary. I believe it was Scott who initially said that RH must have printed the pages out.

I don't believe the pages were printed from online. It was copies of the pages from the ring binder planner.

 

[LongTallTexan]

She owned a PalmZire 31 PDA per the court documents. The PalmZire runs the Palm OS, and that syncs with MS Outlook...or it did in 2005, BUT, the it must sync by cable, IR port, or on computer network requiring her to be at home one her computer's network....the only other way it could've synced is if she dialed in to a network, which would require her calling that dial-up network with her cell phone and there would be a cell phone record for that call. Someone can verify that, but I would think they would have already scrutized her cell phone record...therefore, it is actually very UNLIKELY that those appointments that were 'written down' in her PalmZire planner were synced, which means that someone had that planner after she went missing...

PalmZire http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Offer-of-Proof.pdf

Syncing pg 78 http://biblioteca.museo8bits.es/palm/Zire31_UG_ENG.pdf

 

[EspressoBean]

I'm not sure what episode of MAM2 it is, but Zellner has copies of actual pages of the planner. It looks like it's from a hardcopy ring binder planner, the kind where you open it and the 2 pages have the days of the week across them. Dayrunner or At-A-Glance would be examples of the kind of planner. Her planner was not a electronic device nor a PDA.

MAM2 then shows a tv interview with Scott Bloedorn standing outside of I believe TH's residence speaking with reporters, and holding pages, supposedly from TH's planner, that looked like what Kathleen Zellner has and showed on the documentary. I believe it was Scott who initially said that RH must have printed the pages out.

I don't believe the pages were printed from online. It was copies of the pages from the ring binder planner.

The page from her planner was submitted that it was printed from her outlook calendar, not a binder planner.
The handwritten notes on it were from phone calls she took while on the road, the day she was last seen. They were handwritten and not printed out. This leads me to infer that she printed out her calendar each week or every few days when she went out so she could see it easily.
You can see copies of it online - it has a printer date on it- printed out at 10:30pm, October 30th.

 

[proudfootz]

The page from her planner was submitted that it was printed from her outlook calendar, not a binder planner.
The handwritten notes on it were from phone calls she took while on the road, the day she was last seen. They were handwritten and not printed out. This leads me to infer that she printed out her calendar each week or every few days when she went out so she could see it easily.
You can see copies of it online - it has a printer date on it- printed out at 10:30pm, October 30th.

BBM

That would seem to settle it. Teresa printed it Sunday night for her use on Monday, and she wrote on the paper in her RAV4 when she took calls throughout the day on Monday.

Most likely it was in her possession when she disappeared.

It is significant that it turns up in Ryan's hands days before the RAV4 is found at ASY.

 

[missy1974]

BBM

That would seem to settle it. Teresa printed it Sunday night for her use on Monday, and she wrote on the paper in her RAV4 when she took calls throughout the day on Monday.

Most likely it was in her possession when she disappeared.

It is significant that it turns up in Ryan's hands days before the RAV4 is found at ASY.

Only because I have checked out her phone records repeatedly, I am not 100% with this theory. She was pinging her home tower until about 12;50 IIRC that day, and both callers called before then. Also IIRC, other Steve said in his affidavit that Teresa' told him that she could meet him in about a half hour, otherwise it would have to wait. It had to wait until the Thursday, and she didn't show up, he called Auto Trader saying so. I'm hesitant to say I don't believe it at all, only because it's possible she was still within the tower range and not in her home. But I am sceptical about this one.

I posted about this last week in another thread with links to affidavits and phone records:

Season 2 Episode 10

 

[Karinna]

BBM

That would seem to settle it. Teresa printed it Sunday night for her use on Monday, and she wrote on the paper in her RAV4 when she took calls throughout the day on Monday.

Most likely it was in her possession when she disappeared.

It is significant that it turns up in Ryan's hands days before the RAV4 is found at ASY.

BBM, Agree, and there are a few things about RH that are very suspect in this case IMO

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
Zellner also claims she and her team made attempts to contact Hillegas and ask him questions, but had no luck in receiving a response. According to local TV station WBAY, Zellner's documents allege that Hillegas gave false testimony, and claims phone records support her suspicions. Zellner also alleges that Hillegas was in possession of a day planner that was in Halbach's car when she was killed. The Post Crescent report from last year stated that they were unable to receive comment from Hillegas on Zellner's filing, and Hillegas was never looked into as a suspect by law enforcement for alleged evidence that would implicate him in a crime.
Ryan Hillegas Remains Private Since The Death Of Teresa Halbach

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
RYAN HILLEGAS

Zellner's motion claims Halbach's ex-boyfriend, Ryan Hillegas, also gave false testimony during trial.

The motion claims that Hillegas was not at Halbach's home on the night of Nov. 3, 2005, as he claimed at trial. Zellner says phone records show that he was not at the residence, and that testimony affected the judgment of the jury."

Zellner also claims that Hillegas had a day planner that was in Halbach's vehicle when she was killed.
New Avery documents: phone calls and Facebook posts contradict key witness

 

[Sustained]

Haven't posted in quite awhile but was in the innocent camp until I read Griesbach's book. A few things that are hard to ignore ...

1. Avery's use of *67 in the Auto Trader calls
2. Brendan having bleach on his jeans from cleaning Avery's garage
3. Brendan's call to his mom basically admitting Avery did it
4. Avery lying to the cops as to whether Teresa ever came over on 10/31
5. Avery's past history with women and the fact he asked a 17-year-old to come over for sex the night before Teresa was murdered
6. Earl & friend smelling plastic in the burn barrel

I had issues initially with Avery leaving the RAV4 on the property, but I'm convinced he was going to crush it the weekend the family went up to Crivitz.

 

[RANCH]

Haven't posted in quite awhile but was in the innocent camp until I read Griesbach's book. A few things that are hard to ignore ...

1. Avery's use of *67 in the Auto Trader calls
2. Brendan having bleach on his jeans from cleaning Avery's garage
3. Brendan's call to his mom basically admitting Avery did it
4. Avery lying to the cops as to whether Teresa ever came over on 10/31
5. Avery's past history with women and the fact he asked a 17-year-old to come over for sex the night before Teresa was murdered
6. Earl & friend smelling plastic in the burn barrel

I had issues initially with Avery leaving the RAV4 on the property, but I'm convinced he was going to crush it the weekend the family went up to Crivitz.

You make some good points.

The *67 has always made me feel that Avery was trying to hide his identity to whoever he was calling.

That's what it's designed for.

 

[Karinna]

Haven't posted in quite awhile but was in the innocent camp until I read Griesbach's book. A few things that are hard to ignore ...

1. Avery's use of *67 in the Auto Trader calls
2. Brendan having bleach on his jeans from cleaning Avery's garage
3. Brendan's call to his mom basically admitting Avery did it
4. Avery lying to the cops as to whether Teresa ever came over on 10/31
5. Avery's past history with women and the fact he asked a 17-year-old to come over for sex the night before Teresa was murdered
6. Earl & friend smelling plastic in the burn barrel

I had issues initially with Avery leaving the RAV4 on the property, but I'm convinced he was going to crush it the weekend the family went up to Crivitz.

Didn't Kratz write a book too. LOL.
I guess there is "Fact" and then there is "Fiction" though.

 

[Sustained]

Not sure if you're agreeing or not with my six points but I believe all of them are fact.

 

[Karinna]

Not sure if you're agreeing or not with my six points but I believe all of them are fact.

Do you have links to points # 3. 4.& 5. in your post, other than from Griesbach's book?
The other points you set out have been discussed in various threads on here.

 

[missy1974]

Haven't posted in quite awhile but was in the innocent camp until I read Griesbach's book. A few things that are hard to ignore ...

1. Avery's use of *67 in the Auto Trader calls
2. Brendan having bleach on his jeans from cleaning Avery's garage
3. Brendan's call to his mom basically admitting Avery did it
4. Avery lying to the cops as to whether Teresa ever came over on 10/31
5. Avery's past history with women and the fact he asked a 17-year-old to come over for sex the night before Teresa was murdered
6. Earl & friend smelling plastic in the burn barrel

I had issues initially with Avery leaving the RAV4 on the property, but I'm convinced he was going to crush it the weekend the family went up to Crivitz.

Welcome back Sustained!

Keep in mind that Griesbach wasn't part of the investigation or prosecution of Avery at all. He has stated so many things that are just factually wrong.

1. Avery didn't use *67 to call AutoTrader. His number can be seen on the 1-800 logs from AT.

2. I have attached a photo of Brendan's jeans. Reading or listening to his interviews, you will find that Brendan said they were cleaning up car fluid of some sort. There is no evidence it was anything but car fluid.

3. Brendan's call to his mom? was that on May 13th by chance? Here is the transcript of that interview: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...assey-Interview-Transcript-2006May13_text.pdf Towards the end, they tell Brendan he should tell him mom before they do. Here is a transcript of the calls on May 13th with his mom, Annotate Brendan Dassey Case Files , pls read all the way through. The kid tells his mom what Wiegert and Fassbender want him to say, but then goes on talking and asking questions, because he has no clue what happened, he isn't even sure if Steve killed Teresa. It is clear to me anyway that they lied so much to him that he didn't know what was what anymore. They convinced him that whatever he cleaned up in that garage was blood (which testing didn't not show FYI). This May 13th interview of Brendan was after Mike O'Kelley interviewed Brendan, and I won't even go into what was all wrong with that (we see part of that in the series)

4. Avery never lied to LE about whether Teresa was there or not. From Colborn's report (written 8 months later) I asked STEVEN if a girl from AUTOTRADER MAGAZINE had been on the property that day taking pictures of a vehicle that they were selling. STEVEN replied that the female had indeed been on the AVERY property and that she had been photographing a van which his sister was selling. This can be found here

5. I don't think you will find many people here that will say Steven was a great guy.

6. I don't believe Earl ever said he smelled plastic. Fabian did. But it's a burn barrel, anything could have been in there, and there is some question about whether it was even the same day, but I will say JMO rather than looking up all the documents that support it may have been a different day.

It should also be noted that when his latest book came out, the Wisconsin Innocence Project had to release a statement distancing themselves from him:

The Wisconsin Innocence Project Statement: Role of the Advisory Board | University of Wisconsin Law School

While Mr. Griesbach is an Advisory Board member, we want to make clear that Mr. Griesbach does not speak for, or claim to speak for, the Wisconsin Innocence Project or its Advisory Board. We do not join Mr. Griesbach in his argument that Steven Avery is guilty as convicted of the 2005 homicide of Theresa Halbach.

 

[proudfootz]

Only because I have checked out her phone records repeatedly, I am not 100% with this theory. She was pinging her home tower until about 12;50 IIRC that day, and both callers called before then. Also IIRC, other Steve said in his affidavit that Teresa' told him that she could meet him in about a half hour, otherwise it would have to wait. It had to wait until the Thursday, and she didn't show up, he called Auto Trader saying so. I'm hesitant to say I don't believe it at all, only because it's possible she was still within the tower range and not in her home. But I am sceptical about this one.

I posted about this last week in another thread with links to affidavits and phone records:

Season 2 Episode 10

BBM

Well, I could be wrong!

I'm just mapping the statements about Teresa writing on the planner in her car to how I act. If I printed a 'to do' list for the day or a shopping list and took it with me in my car it's most likely I'd be using it as a reference as I drove from appointment to appointment or store to store. The list wouldn't do me much good if I left it at home.

But maybe she did take it out of her car into her house after making those notes and forgot it when she left.

All MOO

 

[proudfootz]

6. I don't believe Earl ever said he smelled plastic. Fabian did. But it's a burn barrel, anything could have been in there, and there is some question about whether it was even the same day, but I will say JMO rather than looking up all the documents that support it may have been a different day.

RSBM

Just to underscore this point - there are may things made of plastic besides phones.

Plastics in Everyday Household Articles

 

[missy1974]

BBM

Well, I could be wrong!

I'm just mapping the statements about Teresa writing on the planner in her car to how I act. If I printed a 'to do' list for the day or a shopping list and took it with me in my car it's most likely I'd be using it as a reference as I drove from appointment to appointment or store to store. The list wouldn't do me much good if I left it at home.

But maybe she did take it out of her car into her house after making those notes and forgot it when she left.

All MOO

I agree, it seems like it would be something she would take with her, otherwise, why bother doing it in the first place?

I think it's possible that the 2nd call could have been made while she was on her way to the first appointment (she could have been down the road and still hitting her 'home' tower), but the earlier one is more questionable, only because we know that she talked to AT and asked for info to be faxed. The fax machine was at her home and we know she got it because it had the address for Barb.

 

[Sustained]

Welcome back Sustained!

Keep in mind that Griesbach wasn't part of the investigation or prosecution of Avery at all. He has stated so many things that are just factually wrong.

1. Avery didn't use *67 to call AutoTrader. His number can be seen on the 1-800 logs from AT.

2. I have attached a photo of Brendan's jeans. Reading or listening to his interviews, you will find that Brendan said they were cleaning up car fluid of some sort. There is no evidence it was anything but car fluid.

3. Brendan's call to his mom? was that on May 13th by chance? Here is the transcript of that interview: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...assey-Interview-Transcript-2006May13_text.pdf Towards the end, they tell Brendan he should tell him mom before they do. Here is a transcript of the calls on May 13th with his mom, Annotate Brendan Dassey Case Files , pls read all the way through. The kid tells his mom what Wiegert and Fassbender want him to say, but then goes on talking and asking questions, because he has no clue what happened, he isn't even sure if Steve killed Teresa. It is clear to me anyway that they lied so much to him that he didn't know what was what anymore. They convinced him that whatever he cleaned up in that garage was blood (which testing didn't not show FYI). This May 13th interview of Brendan was after Mike O'Kelley interviewed Brendan, and I won't even go into what was all wrong with that (we see part of that in the series)

4. Avery never lied to LE about whether Teresa was there or not. From Colborn's report (written 8 months later) I asked STEVEN if a girl from AUTOTRADER MAGAZINE had been on the property that day taking pictures of a vehicle that they were selling. STEVEN replied that the female had indeed been on the AVERY property and that she had been photographing a van which his sister was selling. This can be found here

5. I don't think you will find many people here that will say Steven was a great guy.

6. I don't believe Earl ever said he smelled plastic. Fabian did. But it's a burn barrel, anything could have been in there, and there is some question about whether it was even the same day, but I will say JMO rather than looking up all the documents that support it may have been a different day.

It should also be noted that when his latest book came out, the Wisconsin Innocence Project had to release a statement distancing themselves from him:

The Wisconsin Innocence Project Statement: Role of the Advisory Board | University of Wisconsin Law School

While Mr. Griesbach is an Advisory Board member, we want to make clear that Mr. Griesbach does not speak for, or claim to speak for, the Wisconsin Innocence Project or its Advisory Board. We do not join Mr. Griesbach in his argument that Steven Avery is guilty as convicted of the 2005 homicide of Theresa Halbach.

1. As to the *67, I thought Teresa was on Cingular on 10/31/05 and the original call logs showed an unknown caller.

2. Brendan having bleach on his jeans is not convincing on its own but fits in the narrative of Avery cleaning up the blood after shooting Teresa.

3. This exchange between Brendan and Barb was what I was referring to:

M: I haven't talked to nobody. I told you nobody calls me and lets me know nothing.
B: Ya. Do you feel bad if I say it today?
M: You don't even have to say it Brendan
B: Why?
M: Because just by the way you are acting I know what it is?
B: What
M: I don't want to say it over the phone
B: About what all happened?
M: Huh
B: About what all happened?
M: What all happened, what are you talking about?
B: About what me & Steven did that day,
M: What about it?
B: Well, Mike & Mark & Matt came up one day and took another interview with me and said because they think 1 was lying but so, they said if I come out with it that I would have to go to jail for 90 years.
M: What?
B: Ya. But if I came out with it I would probably get I dunno about like 20 or less. After the interview they told me if I wanted to say something to her family and said that I was sorry for what I did.
M: Then Steven did do it.
B: Ya
M: (Mom Crying) Why didn't you tell me about this?
B: Ya, but they came out wi.th something that was untrue with me
M: What's that
B: They said that I sold crack.



4. I haven't seen a transcript of an interview, but this is from the trial. Of course if you believe Colborn was in on the conspiracy, he must've perjured himself at the trial. So it wasn't that she didn't show up, but that he didn't speak to her. Then who paid her ?

Kratz:

Sergeant Colborn, that first day, that is, the first day of the missing persons investigation, the 3rd of November, after Mr. Wiegert asked for your help, did you have any conversation with Steven Avery at that time?

Colborn:

Yes, I did. I asked him if Teresa Halbach had come out to their property to photograph a vehicle that they were selling.

Kratz:

Mr. Avery have a response for you?

Colborn:

He said that she was taking some pictures of a van that his sister was selling. And I asked Mr. Avery if she had said where she was going and he said, "I never talked to her. She was only here five or ten minutes, then she left."

Kratz:

That he never talked to her?

Colborn:

That's what he told me. He never talked to her.


5. The fact Steven was abusive to women speaks volumes.

6. Once again, the plastic indeed could have been something else - but it also could have been Teresa's phone.

Why would the Wisconsin Innocence Project support Griesbach's opinion of Avery's guilt with Zellner currently working the case ?

 

[Sustained]

Would like to add an observation about MaM2 and the evidence tests Zellner and crew did on the RaV4.
It appeared that most of the tests were done in the daylight, but it seems most likely that Avery moved the Rav4 after dark. A big deal was made of the DNA on the hood latch, but it seems to me that if Avery was fumbling around in the dark, he could've easily missed the latch a few times. Same with the blood next to the ignition key and trying to put the key in the switch. Maybe he missed the switch and brushed up against the spot where the blood was found.