Stranger abduction theory

[IBsleuthin]

Maybe a gang member(s)? Gangs do really awful things.

I would have a REALLY difficult time believing that this was gang related.

That GANG members figured out that TY had a stepson who went to school several hours away and that somehow they plotted and planned to kidnap Kyron out of that school on the day of the science fair.

If this is true, then the people involved in plotting this should be granted immunity and given jobs at the Pentagon because they are craftier than anything we've got going on in there right now.

 

[BeanE]

Yes, gang revenge.

Medford police Detective Tony Young said he hopes that message will resonate within the community and that people will understand gang violence will not be tolerated.

"I think the judge sent a message with this verdict," said Young. "Read between the lines. (Reyes-Real) lost the best years of his life over a stupid act."

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080822/NEWS/808220340

Now that's an angle I hope to God LE has explored.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

Putting a different spin on this, what if TH had involvement directly or indirectly with any gang related people in her life? This could of rebounded on her in this way, perhaps without her even being aware of any plot against others that she was directly tied to as in her immediate family, such as KH, DY, & TY. I had mentioned way back on another thread that this could have been a "payback" of some kind? Don't really know if its a probability though. Does the LS she supposedly hired in the MFH plot have any connections to some of these gang types? Wasn't TH in cahoots with some hispanic types, and wonder if there is a connection there of any kind? The other possibility is that these were the type of people she could have hired for the MFH & or Kyron's disappearance? Maybe that's why she's not talking, because she knows if she tells anything about this she will be history? I guess by all of this LE would have an idea, because money would have been involved, but could she have secreted money somehow and stashed it somewhere for her plan if this is the case?

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I was just thinking about a case i think it was last year, and it was i think in NY from memory, not that i have that great a memory, lol, but in that case a little boy went missing and it turned out his grandpa was involved with the Mafia. Thank God the child was returned back to the family safely. So things like this do happen.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

Now that's an angle I hope to God LE has explored.

ITA. I hope so too.

 

[Solstice Canyon]

I was just thinking about a case i think it was last year, and it was i think in NY from memory, not that i have that great a memory, lol, but in that case a little boy went missing and it turned out his grandpa was involved with the Mafia. Thank God the child was returned back to the family safely. So things like this do happen.

I do remember something similar from the same timeframe, where there was a little boy taken in connection with something the grandfather was involved in, but the case I am thinking of took place in Nevada, I believe. I didn't actually remember hearing the M word, but it does seem there was something "bad" like drugs or some such thing.

Anyway, I do get your point and think it's a good one.

 

[cindysue]

Putting a different spin on this, what if TH had involvement directly or indirectly with any gang related people in her life? This could of rebounded on her in this way, perhaps without her even being aware of any plot against others that she was directly tied to as in her immediate family, such as KH, DY, & TY. I had mentioned way back on another thread that this could have been a "payback" of some kind? Don't really know if its a probability though. Does the LS she supposedly hired in the MFH plot have any connections to some of these gang types? Wasn't TH in cahoots with some hispanic types, and wonder if there is a connection there of any kind? The other possibility is that these were the type of people she could have hired for the MFH & or Kyron's disappearance? Maybe that's why she's not talking, because she knows if she tells anything about this she will be history? I guess by all of this LE would have an idea, because money would have been involved, but could she have secreted money somehow and stashed it somewhere for her plan if this is the case?

I just read something close to this off another site. It inferred that gardening/pot growing/ gang related stuff was going on and that D was the connection to TH. It seems way out there to me. If this was the case that it was payback or something on those lines then she had to be involved cause of the fact that she confused the teacher into thinking he had a doctors appointment ..in other words she set him up for whoever.

 

[gitana1]

I was just noting some things and asking questions off the top of my head as a way to get the discussion restarted.

We each get to interpret reports in whatever manner works for us, and to give as much or as little credibility to them as works for us.

For reference on TP:

Video 1:

- I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never did see him after that.

- And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Miss Porter's like it's alright calm down, calm down she's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she's like alright I'm gonna leave and she left.

Video 2 (reporter says TP saw Kyron around 8:45):

- And he walked by the hallway and I'm like, Hi, Kyron, and he's like, Hi. I'm gonna go see this cool one. Electric one. And I'm like, Alright, bye. And that's the last time I saw him. He never did make it back to class.

Video 1: http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/in...-of-kyron-horman/2091168039/?icid=VIDURVNWS08

Video 2: http://www.kptv.com/video/23842579/index.html

Article:

Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

The quote from the boy is interesting. If someone said, 'Oh no, there's only 5, where's Kyron?', and the teacher then said, "calm down, he's probably getting a drink.', one would think the teacher or aide? would then notice if he did not rejoin the class after a while. Because the 'calm down, calm down' indicates there was a moment of alarm. In cases where people are paid to care for children, a moment of alarm would seem to resonate and not be forgotten, especially by two separate people, especially not for the entire school day.
It sparks something in your brain: "Did we lose a kid? Better track that." Even in the subconscious. If regular class then began for the day and still no sign of Kyron, I would think that the earlier moment of alarm would resurface. I just don't think that the day would go on and the thought that Kyron was not there would disappear amidst other distractions because for people in charge of children, their safety is always paramount.
I would really like to know what went on among the people in charge of Kyron's class that day. If, indeed, things actually happened the way the little boy described and the people in charge just forgot that moment - someone or two should be fired, IMO. If those in charge are that scatter-brained, it seems it would not be that hard for anyone to snatch a child. The kids would be like ducks on a pond.
P.S., I say this as a former daycare worker and preschool teacher.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I just read something close to this off another site. It inferred that gardening/pot growing/ gang related stuff was going on and that D was the connection to TH. It seems way out there to me. If this was the case that it was payback or something on those lines then she had to be involved cause of the fact that she confused the teacher into thinking he had a doctors appointment ..in other words she set him up for whoever.

That is kind of what i was thinking, that she was involved,when other aspects of this case are mentioned about what TH did on the day Kyron went missing. If she hated Kaine that much that she would ask someone to kill him, then i think this is possible, in lieu of the fact that Kyron is his son. As his SM she was probably not as emotionally tied to Kyron as his bio mom, and i wonder if she was ever approached by someone to do this, with the promise of a large amnt. of money after the fact? She may have needed that if she was contemplating leaving Kaine?

 

[gitana1]

To me, the gang theory, is specious. The thought that TH would be involved in gangs seems far fetched, with respect. The idea that someone tried to seek revenge against TY by way of a stepchild who does not even live with him seems far fetched as well.
The case in AZ involved an entire family with some issues and with drug people coming in and out of the child's home, IIRC. Seeking revenge against a grandfather involved in drug cartels by snatching his grandson is more understandable but I think it is a stretch to say that some gang would try to retaliate against investigators by way of an investigator's stepchild.
A person who knows Kyron or an opportunistic stranger would seem more likely to try to take Kyron from his school.
Also, I don't see gang/cartel members planning something out that way and haunting school halls anyhow. If they were going to seek revenge, their MO is usually to take a person by force from the road or from their homes, busting in quickly and violently in a huge, scary scene.

 

[mmmagique]

Regarding someone involved in gangs attempting to "get at" TY or even TMH, why wouldn't the person doing so take someone who is the biological child of the person, or at least the child that lives with the person (in TY's case)?

I don't understand stealing a stepchild as a means to get even with someone. Not that there can't be very strong bonds between steps, but, if I were an evil person and wanted to hurt someone, a blood relative would be my first choice.

Eh, I just don't think there is a "bad guy" out there or a gang of bad guys who kidnapped a seven year old who is not even biologically related to the person(s) they're trying to get back at. Well...there may be one, but I believe if so, that person is MUCH closer to the family than some random person(s).

Strange things have and do happen, I just think the answer is much simpler and closer to home than a bushy haired stranger...

 

[mmmagique]

To me, the gang theory, is specious. The thought that TH would be involved in gangs seems far fetched, with respect. The idea that someone tried to seek revenge against TY by way of a stepchild who does not even live with him seems far fetched as well.
The case in AZ involved an entire family with some issues and with drug people coming in and out of the child's home, IIRC. Seeking revenge against a grandfather involved in drug cartels by snatching his grandson is more understandable but I think it is a stretch to say that some gang would try to retaliate against investigators by way of an investigator's stepchild.
A person who knows Kyron or an opportunistic stranger would seem more likely to try to take Kyron from his school.
Also, I don't see gang/cartel members planning something out that way and haunting school halls anyhow. If they were going to seek revenge, their MO is usually to take a person by force from the road or from their homes, busting in quickly and violently in a huge, scary scene.

We must have been posting at the same time!

You said what I tried to say, so much better.

Great post!

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I would have a REALLY difficult time believing that this was gang related.

That GANG members figured out that TY had a stepson who went to school several hours away and that somehow they plotted and planned to kidnap Kyron out of that school on the day of the science fair.

If this is true, then the people involved in plotting this should be granted immunity and given jobs at the Pentagon because they are craftier than anything we've got going on in there right now.

I feel that these things are possible, but not "probable", but when something as terrible as a missing child is being investigated, then i feel every angle needs to be pursued, especially when the SM has had dealings with any "shady" characters in her life. IF this is the case, that is.
Gang members do find out what they want to know, if they are that way inclined to get to someone. They have their connections in various locations also. What about DY & TY, they had Kyron in their life too didn't they, on access visits. Wasn't Kyron going to his mom's for summer?
If someone wanted to hurt this family for whatever reason, then i wouldn't think it was impossible. Horrible stuff happens all the time. In the street where i live before we moved here, there was an incident of a 15yr. old that had been shot because of gang/drug related violence.

 

[Jo in Calif]

The quote from the boy is interesting. If someone said, 'Oh no, there's only 5, where's Kyron?', and the teacher then said, "calm down, he's probably getting a drink.', one would think the teacher or aide? would then notice if he did not rejoin the class after a while. Because the 'calm down, calm down' indicates there was a moment of alarm. In cases where people are paid to care for children, a moment of alarm would seem to resonate and not be forgotten, especially by two separate people, especially not for the entire school day.
It sparks something in your brain: "Did we lose a kid? Better track that." Even in the subconscious. If regular class then began for the day and still no sign of Kyron, I would think that the earlier moment of alarm would resurface. I just don't think that the day would go on and the thought that Kyron was not there would disappear amidst other distractions because for people in charge of children, their safety is always paramount.
I would really like to know what went on among the people in charge of Kyron's class that day. If, indeed, things actually happened the way the little boy described and the people in charge just forgot that moment - someone or two should be fired, IMO. If those in charge are that scatter-brained, it seems it would not be that hard for anyone to snatch a child. The kids would be like ducks on a pond.
P.S., I say this as a former daycare worker and preschool teacher.

This is what I'm talking about up thread, with TP's statement, he is involving 8 people in this scenario, the teacher, the aid, and the other 5 children that were in the group and Kyron. Kyron would have had to be in the group, in order for him to be missing, correct? If this were the case, then 5 children and the aid would have been the last ones to see Kyron in the school. I would think that LE has interviewed all these people. This why LE asked for people not to talk to the media

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I know that LE said that parents need not be alarmed because this is an "isolated case", but there is a very slim chance that it could have been a stranger abduction. LE are not 100% sure obviously. I would still be concerned as a parent though, if my child were to have to go back to that school, because what if it turned out to be that Kyron was abducted by a stranger. Don't think i would be too comfortable until this case is solved, and the general public does know for sure what actually did happen.

 

[LisaB]

I'm questioning something about the hallway outside Kyron's classroom. Terri says she saw Kyron going up the hall towards his class. This may have been discounted, but I thought the classmate said that the aide/volunteer was in the room and missed Kyron for her group of five before the teacher entered the room. If this is true, the teacher would have still been out of the room past 8:45 but the others should have been in the room. Looks like some of those people would have seen or heard a stranger or Kyron out in that hall or that someone would have passed him and questioned just what he was doing. Does anyone know if I'm correct about the teacher not being in the room until after Kyron was missed by the aide at 8:45?

IIRC, the class was broken into groups shortly after 8:45 to tour the exhibits. Presumably the teacher led one group. At 10AM, as the chaperone's (and teacher) were returning their young charges to the classroom, the one shepherding Kyron's group around realized he was not there (ASSUMING THE CHILD WHO REPORTED THIS CORRECTLY). This would assume that the chaperone not only had 6 kids to begin with, but knew that one of them was Kyron, and that the one missing at the end was Kyron. So who interviewed the chaperone?

 

[Jo in Calif]

I know that LE said that parents need not be alarmed because this is an "isolated case", but there is a very slim chance that it could have been a stranger abduction. LE are not 100% sure obviously. I would still be concerned as a parent though, if my child were to have to go back to that school, because what if it turned out to be that Kyron was abducted by a stranger. Don't think i would be too comfortable until this case is solved, and the general public does know for sure what actually did happen.

Wouldn't it be great to see a poll of all the parents of the school. See if they think it might have been a stranger abduction, or Terry?

 

[BeanE]

I know that LE said that parents need not be alarmed because this is an "isolated case", but there is a very slim chance that it could have been a stranger abduction. LE are not 100% sure obviously. I would still be concerned as a parent though, if my child were to have to go back to that school, because what if it turned out to be that Kyron was abducted by a stranger. Don't think i would be too comfortable until this case is solved, and the general public does know for sure what actually did happen.

Gates stated that there's a low level need for the public to be alarmed. Not no need - but a low level need. It was after the CNN isolated case article. I'll get the quote and link if you like. Just holler. It was a press conference.

 

[the seeker]

I agree with a lot of you on here that it was someone familiar to Kyron but not someone within Kyron's family circle. I am leaning towards an older brother or father of one of Kyron's friends, maybe someone in the family circle of a classmate that was jealous of Kyron and his project and wanted to do something about it. Kyron's project looks a little over the top for a seven year old and I can imagine a classmate getting upset that there's was not that good, thought Kyron cheated etc etc and crazy parent decides he's sick of his kid getting the 'short end of the stick'.

That a stranger just happened to be in there that day to kidnap a kid is hard for me to fathom, not that it might not have happened. But I am leaning towards a parent or older sibling.

I am not feeling like the SM is involved. I actually feel kind of sorry for her. I mean, I'm the one taking my girl to preschool everyday so I'm the 'last to see her' when I drop her off. It would sicken me if I got accused of something like that god forbid anything ever happened to her.

I agree with the bolded areas of this post. I feel that it was not a stranger per se...I feel it was someone that Kyron wouldnt feel uncomfortable being approached by. I feel its fairly obvious that it was someone who would not raise eyebrows by him/her being there. Like it was a staff member, a parent...someone whose presence there would not cause alarm...perhaps someone who knew the school very well (knew where to "hide someone" until the halls cleared out after the science fair), someone who was familiar with the school and the staff...and more importantly someone who had the opportunity to plan this out carefully...and in my opinion that would h ave to be done by someone who really knows the school inside and out, as well as the staff and their routines/habits. Someone who coveted a little boy Kyrons age with glasses for a while.......this MAY explain while LE is calling it an isolated incident...they wanted Kyron and had been planning it for a while..they have what they want now. Does some of this fit TH? Yes...but could it also fit a staff member or parent? Absolutely. What bothers me about TH is her posting on fb right after he was taken (going to the gym, really?), and the "murder for hire" deal.....those two things are the only things that dont have me %100 convinced it wasnt her.

 

[gliving]

Regarding someone involved in gangs attempting to "get at" TY or even TMH, why wouldn't the person doing so take someone who is the biological child of the person, or at least the child that lives with the person (in TY's case)?

I don't understand stealing a stepchild as a means to get even with someone. Not that there can't be very strong bonds between steps, but, if I were an evil person and wanted to hurt someone, a blood relative would be my first choice.

Eh, I just don't think there is a "bad guy" out there or a gang of bad guys who kidnapped a seven year old who is not even biologically related to the person(s) they're trying to get back at. Well...there may be one, but I believe if so, that person is MUCH closer to the family than some random person(s).

Strange things have and do happen, I just think the answer is much simpler and closer to home than a bushy haired stranger...

Just jumping off your post. I don't know if Tony has bio children of his own and don't want to snoop there. So I'll just assume he only has step children, then how better to give Tony a message of retaliation, than to take his step son.

http://www.nwgangs.com/25164.html
"Most gang activity are centered in cities along Interstate 5 (Portland, Salem, Corvallis, Eugene and Medford). In Eastern Oregon the cities of Hermiston, Milton-Freewater, Ontario and Nyssa all have a good amount of Hispanic gang activity.
Gangs found here are from all racial backgrounds and can be as small as 3-5 members or as large as several hundred. They are involved in all levels of crime, such as graffiti, theft, auto theft, burglary, assaults, arson, prostitution, drug trafficking, drive-by shootings and homicide."

From what I've learned about gangs, is that they take revenge very personally. To not retaliate is a sign of weakness. If a gang member hurts another gang member's sister, then the sister of the other gang member' will pay the price. You hurt mine, I'll hurt yours worse.

As far as Medford being too far from Portland, I'll posit that when one is seeking revenge, no distance is too far and if anything more 'honorable' for a reprisal.

So many times we hear the reason a witness won't come forward against gang violence is the fact they fear what the gang will do to them.