Subornation of Perjury and Jose Baez

[shgrbkr]

I think JB has been guilty of subornation of perjury on several occasions, but I also believe in this case it would be extremely difficult to prove. The only people who could possibly testify against him are the ones who lied on the stand to begin with. All of these people are full of pride and self-righteousness and generally just concerned with covering their own a$$e$, thus probably wouldn't be believed anyway.

For example, if KC gets convicted, then it could be argued that CA has a bone to pick with him and thus has an ulterior motive to damage his career.

Likely would be a waste of time. A huge waste.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Somehow I just cannot see Jose Baez as the martyr for justice that is painted here. I prefer to judge him on his own morals, separate from Casey's. I find them severely lacking.

He disrespected the court so severely that he has already been fined. And yet he continued along the same path so flagrantly that HHJP has indicated that there will be a penalty to pay at the end of this trial. That doesn't sound like the "best" defense to me ~ maybe the most "aggressive" but certainly not the best. How many times did we hear HHJP tutoring him, i.e.; what motions he needed to file, how to write them, warning him that he shouldn't "open that door," etc, etc? Even the prosecution helped in his on the job training by supplying copies and documents he failed to bring to court. He whined and complained about everything, even the things he was guilty of himself.

You are right, imo, about his aggressiveness. He was so aggressive that he didn't think he should have to follow the rules (even those he understood). It was this belligerence that gave him the confidence to not only toe the line but to step over it several times. It may be that he got his entire foot over the lines of rules, court decorum and morals. We will find out shortly.

Casey did get a fair trial but I believe it was in spite of Mr Baez. It was because HHJP and the prosecution gave him so many breaks and help.

Sure, everyone needs a vigorous and legal representation; key word being legal. Defense and state both need to play by the same rules ~ ". . . not for the guilty but for the innocent." moo.

Seems he basically had a one in a million shot at fame and he had to take it (in his mind). Nothing he would do in his life would ever amount to what he could get from this case, so he had to make the sacrifices for himself imo. Not saying I agree with it but I do not think his motivation was for justice.

 

[LambChop]

Seems he basically had a one in a million shot at fame and he had to take it (in his mind). Nothing he would do in his life would ever amount to what he could get from this case, so he had to make the sacrifices for himself imo. Not saying I agree with it but I do not think his motivation was for justice.

For anyone who has doubts here is something to think about. Between the time JB's client was found not guilty late on Tuesday afternoon and her sentencing hearing on Thursday morning at 9am, JB found time to make a trip to NYC to sign an agreement with the William Morris agency that did not include Casey Anthony. Where do you think JB's priorities lie? Fortunately they withdrew their offer. There was never, ever a plan for Casey Anthony in JB's future. Surprise, surprise.

 

[noseyone]

I have no complaint with this. I do have a problem with the many folks who seem unable or unwilling to separate the defendant from the people representing her, and all too willing to transfer or assign all the negative opinions they have of the defendant onto the defense team.

Baez devoted three years of his life to this case. He almost certainly knows ICA better than anyone on in the world, he likely has a very strong opinion on her guilt. But guilty or not, and however he might feel about her personally, Casey Anthony has a right the best most aggressive defense possible.

Someone has to do it, not for the guilty but for the innocent.

Baez knows this. He also knows that he is going to be hated and ridiculed for doing his job. He knows that if he wins or even does a decent job, in many people's minds he will be no better than ICA -- and if he loses his loss will be cheered and celebrated. Screw that.

I will stand up here and say the unpopular thing: Thank's Mr Baez, and all defense attorneys, for doing what you do. I think you did a good job of it and ICA got a fair trial and solid defense. I believe that when this is finished justice will have been served.

I do not agree with this at all. This trial was aTravesty of Justice! This was not a Fair Trial in anyway. The Judge was teaching J.B. how to be a defense lawyer, and constantly held the state to a higher standard. This was so wrong! J.B. did not give up 3years of his life for the good of ICA. He spent 3yrs doing T.V. and radio interviews, lots! He showed how unprepared he was on a constant basis, and that is why the Judge took him by the hand and walked him through the trial. The defense did not win becasue they presented a solid case. They won, becasue the Jury did not like J.A., they wanted out, talked about the trial while being seqestered, and did not review any evidence at all. They should be held accountable for not doing what they were required to do by law.
If this would have been a fair trial, and she would have been found N.G. at that time. I would have no problem saying that J.B. and the defense did a good job. But that's just FANTASY, as is the defense that was presented.
MOO

 

[hannahsnana]

BBM

He knows a "version" of her. She puts on a different persona for different people. IMO Nobody will ever "know" ICA.
Also- I totally disagree with the opinion that "Someone has to do it, if not for the guilty but for the innocent.". NOBODY will ever be able to convince me that JB's intentions were anything more than self-serving. It doesn't matter how much trouble he gets in over this case, if he loses his license, goes to jail, etc. He will have what he was after...fame and fortune. If JB miraculously doesn't go after some type of media deal or any other money jackpot after this is over, I will eat my words.

This is so true, and that's because there's nothing there to know. Casey Anthony is a shell, no soul, an abomination of what it means to be human. Unfortunately, she's not alone; there are others like her, in prisons, or walking among us all. We just haven't identified all of them.

 

[rbrnmw2]

This is so true, and that's because there's nothing there to know. Casey Anthony is a shell, no soul, an abomination of what it means to be human. Unfortunately, she's not alone; there are others like her, in prisons, or walking among us all. We just haven't identified all of them.

Actually I think there must have been a person or two on the jury who was like A vapid person or two who only wanted to get home and start there life as a celebrity MOO

 

[clv129]

does anyone know where i can find this petition that was started to place sanctions against jose baez?

http://www.wftv.com/news/28494098/detail.html

 

[rossva]

Great post Chris.

I have no complaint with this. I do have a problem with the many folks who seem unable or unwilling to separate the defendant from the people representing her, and all too willing to transfer or assign all the negative opinions they have of the defendant onto the defense team.

Baez devoted three years of his life to this case. He almost certainly knows ICA better than anyone on in the world, he likely has a very strong opinion on her guilt. But guilty or not, and however he might feel about her personally, Casey Anthony has a right the best most aggressive defense possible.

Someone has to do it, not for the guilty but for the innocent.

Baez knows this. He also knows that he is going to be hated and ridiculed for doing his job. He knows that if he wins or even does a decent job, in many people's minds he will be no better than ICA -- and if he loses his loss will be cheered and celebrated. Screw that.

I will stand up here and say the unpopular thing: Thank's Mr Baez, and all defense attorneys, for doing what you do. I think you did a good job of it and ICA got a fair trial and solid defense. I believe that when this is finished justice will have been served.

 

[whiterum]

I think Krystal Holloway may have been nudged a little bit.:twocents:
IMO....

I agree, it certainly appeared to me like she had been given a few practice sessions.

Looking at the Jury when answering, momentarily losing it (the real her) then composing herself, speaking slowly with thoughtfully worded replies. Seemed well rehearsed, not natural at all in my opinion

 

[Just K]

On the question of why Baez would let Casey sit in jail for 3 years if Caylee wasn't murdered but rather the victim of a tragic drowning accident ...

Could one reason be the fact that on January 25, 2010 Casey plead guilty to 13 counts of check fraud and was sentenced to TIME SERVED in jail as well as probation if ever released.

Not a bad deal since prosecutors had asked for 5 years on the check fraud charges.

Source:

http://www.theledger.com/article/20...le=Casey-Anthony-Pleads-Guilty-to-Check-Fraud

So, if she got probation how can she leave the State of Florida?

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks, Kat. :seeya: From the above Statute ..........
The underlying perjury must be proved under the standards required by the applicable perjury statute.

......... The State, imo, is NOT going to go forward with ANY perjury charges. Consequently, this becomes a moot point.

Hmm, interesting..I swear I heard Baez admit to HHJP that he knew CA was going to change her testimony from her depo - which meant lying. I know that happened, because HHJP specifically challenged him on it.

 

[logicalgirl]

I have no complaint with this. I do have a problem with the many folks who seem unable or unwilling to separate the defendant from the people representing her, and all too willing to transfer or assign all the negative opinions they have of the defendant onto the defense team.

Baez devoted three years of his life to this case. He almost certainly knows ICA better than anyone on in the world, he likely has a very strong opinion on her guilt. But guilty or not, and however he might feel about her personally, Casey Anthony has a right the best most aggressive defense possible.

Someone has to do it, not for the guilty but for the innocent.

Baez knows this. He also knows that he is going to be hated and ridiculed for doing his job. He knows that if he wins or even does a decent job, in many people's minds he will be no better than ICA -- and if he loses his loss will be cheered and celebrated. Screw that.

I will stand up here and say the unpopular thing: Thank's Mr Baez, and all defense attorneys, for doing what you do. I think you did a good job of it and ICA got a fair trial and solid defense. I believe that when this is finished justice will have been served.

I'm with you on this point. Every accused needs a strong defense team working on their behalf.

But to lie, deliberately slander to save your miserable client? That is acceptable to you?

If it was you Baez was talking about during his defense - if it was you Baez was slandering with terrible lies that would follow you for the rest of your life, would you still feel the same?

If you knew there were people out there who believed those innuendos, who continued to talk about those lies Baez said as if they are "truth" and even expanded on those lies and made them into something else, would you still feel the same?

And if you were shunned by your relatives post trial, and if for money, your relatives started coming out of the woodwork to add mor lies to fuel to those lies - what about that? If you knew wherever you went in your community, people would point at you and repeat those lies to your face and behind your back, would you still feel the same about a defense team and that type of "justice"?

 

[logicalgirl]

So, if she got probation how can she leave the State of Florida?

Didn't HHJP say she had to remain in the state of Florida until after the hearing the State has requested regarding investigative costs?

And when is the JAC going to step up to the plate here and question the expenses Baez "needed" to investigate a murder he finally announced he'd known was an accident since "day one".

 

[chakti]

Didn't HHJP say she had to remain in the state of Florida until after the hearing the State has requested regarding investigative costs?

And when is the JAC going to step up to the plate here and question the expenses Baez "needed" to investigate a murder he finally announced he'd known was an accident since "day one".

WOW, you are right ! If I knew how to start a thread I would start one on this point.

JAC should investigate just what this crook spent money on.

 

[DesSands]

I have to disagree with those saying Jose was just doing his job and it isn't his fault the case has gone the way it has. With all due respect Jose Baez is absolutely the reason this case turned into a circus. He was ethically challenged long before he met ICA. That is the reason he was denied access to bar for so many years. Because he was a morally bankrupt individual who refused to support his children, wrote bad checks and was just all around slimy. Fast forward to meeting ICA. Do you really think all the attorneys who have left really left for money reasons? One of them had the guts to tell the truth. Can't remember his name but he wanted to go with mental health defense and Jose said no way. It was Jose, not ICA showing up on primetime news shows 3/4 times a week. It was Jose not ICA who repeatedly and intentionally disobey court orders. It was Jose who forgot to pay the taxes as he was the in control of the funds. It was Jose who spent $3000000 without actually accomplishing anything. Jose has a spanking coming. He deserves what ever he gets. JMHO

I'm so glad you brought this forward. I had read up on JB and wanted to mention a few weeks ago that he couldn't practice law for quite awhile and that's what held the trial up. As far as other attorneys went, they didn't want to be associated with such antics and deceit.

 

[DesSands]

Didn't HHJP say she had to remain in the state of Florida until after the hearing the State has requested regarding investigative costs?

And when is the JAC going to step up to the plate here and question the expenses Baez "needed" to investigate a murder he finally announced he'd known was an accident since "day one".

I love to read your posts because they are up to date and accurate. Is there a hearing date set for Inv. costs and also JB's conduct, he's on record stating well she was NEVER missing. Yuk !!

 

[Eileen730]

But IF he KNEW what she was going to testify to beforehand and put her on the stand it's still SoP IMO

I remember JP asking JB if he knew and JB said YES!

Anyone else remember that or am i thinking of something else.
And when will he find out if he faces contempt charges?

 

[LambChop]

WOW, you are right ! If I knew how to start a thread I would start one on this point.

JAC should investigate just what this crook spent money on.

Not sure how correct this is but this is what I understood from KC's hearing for JAC money and what was talked about on WS's at the time.

At KC's hearing with the JAC the state brought up the question as to how the $200,000+ money was spent and where did KC get all this money. There was the $200K from ABC, there was about $70,000 in services donated to KC from AL and her staff, $70,000 from the California attorney (which could have been services, also, not actual money because that was not clear) and $5,000 donated by someone not mentioned. Grand total of $345,000, which I assume is the amount KC is being taxed on.

So let's say $205,000 in cash she actually received. $89,000 approximately to JB for her murder trial and about $20,000 in expenses for AL. The rest of the money was never disclosed and JB requested to go into the chambers with the judge. We never heard anything other than it went for PI investigations (which would have been covered under AL's $70,000 because Mort worked for her at the time) and experts. We now know the experts appeared to have not been paid.

What happened to the rest of the money? KC's fraud trial had already taken place and therefore JB does not have to reveal any money that JB made from that itty bitty trial that probably had no investigation and little paperwork due to KC getting caught cashing forged checks on video. So there you have it. The rest of the money, about $90,000, could have been for the fraud case.

Now that was my understanding at the time. I'm sure everyone assumed also that JB had paid the taxes which would have been about $66,000 so JB's fee for the fraud trial would have been about $24,000. Still a little steep for just a fraud trial but what the heck, he's worth it right? But the fact is KC was just sent a bill for $68,000 for back taxes, plus interest for NOT paying her taxes on that money in 2008.

Personally, I don't think JB ever thought KC would get out of jail and the tax matter would just go away. Surprise, surprise. jmo

 

[msinformed]

Hmm, interesting..I swear I heard Baez admit to HHJP that he knew CA was going to change her testimony from her depo - which meant lying. I know that happened, because HHJP specifically challenged him on it.

Hey, lg, I wasn't very clear in my post ...... sorry. The statute, sets out that the underlying perjury must be proven. Hence, CA (or whomever lied :innocent would have to be charged and convicted of said perjury, before subornation by Baez would be entertained for possible subsequent charges.

Is that any clearer ........... 'cause I'm still a french fry short of a happy meal since this whacked verdict. :crazy:

 

[LambChop]

Hey, lg, I wasn't very clear in my post ...... sorry. The statute, sets out that the underlying perjury must be proven. Hence, CA (or whomever lied :innocent would have to be charged and convicted of said perjury, before subornation by Baez would be entertained for possible subsequent charges.

Is that any clearer ........... 'cause I'm still a french fry short of a happy meal since this whacked verdict. :crazy:

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the judge was asking about KC changing her story from her original statement. jmo