SweetT
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I don't believe everything I see on TV.. These guys are guilty as sin.. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem letting them baby sit your young sons
Summary of Damien's Mental Health History
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I don't believe everything I see on TV.. These guys are guilty as sin.. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem letting them baby sit your young sons
Compassionate Reader
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I would let Damien, Jason or Jessie baby sit my young child, if I had one. However, there is one person that I would not trust around children, young or older. That is Terry Wayne Hobbs!
Well there you go then.
He claims to have been unable to walk because of being shackled. How often would that have happened? Let's see, he was an inmate in lockdown and probably only got to get out of the cell for 1 hour. I think I read that he didn't want to go exercise because he loved to read all of those books Lorri kept stored for him with his poor blind eyes.
There is nothing that points to Terry Hobbs, it's just another smoke and mirrors defense propaganda. When are the other parents going to become suspects in the supporters eyes?
The police have never thought of Hobbs as a suspect. They got the guys who did it and those same guys even confessed, were convicted by two juries and plead guilty.
I agree, they would not come near my child. Echols has a very disturbing and violent past. Even his own family was afraid of him according to his mental health files. Jason was on probation and not from school either. So was Jesse. These guys were bad news.
Really don't consider or care about Echols's current state. It doesn't help in determining who did what 20 some years ago. I'll leave that to those that are con-WM3 instead of pro-victim.
C'mon Ud, that's being disingenuous and frankly weakens other arguments then made. The hair alone at a minimum point to Terry Hobbs and saying it doesn't simply sounds silly. If you want to say there's nothing that points to Terry Hobbs that sufficiently convinces you he did it or should be looked into, that's different. But a blanket statement that there's NOTHING is a bit overboard.
Bravo
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Bravo
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I am not basing my opine based on TV. Please!!!!. I have studied this case. I base it on fact. Give me one shred of evidence these 3 did it. There is none. IMO those that villify these 3 do it based on ignorance of the Law and Fact. Ya not think sometimes folks are accused and convicted and it's wrong. I am very skeptic in wrongful but in this case it was wrong. Mach 90. IMO.
Bravo
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Yep :seeya:
I've followed this case(s), and I am surrounded by criminals, including murderers, every day via my job for nearly 20 years.
I would let any of the WM3 babysit and I am more paranoid than most. It drives people crazy with my paranoia and observations.
While that means nothing in reality, I can see railroaded for what it is. JMO, MOO, and all that.
I would let any of the WM3 babysit and I am more paranoid than most. It drives people crazy with my paranoia and observations.
While that means nothing in reality, I can see railroaded for what it is. JMO, MOO, and all that.
No, it isn't a joke. I worked with violent, assaultive murderers in a state hospital for over 30 years. Their histories looked much like DE's. Knowing their histories was how we kept safe. One of our fellow employees was murdered by a patient who got between her and the door. He also beat the security officers who were called to the scene. Many of them were quite charming and so some of the employees got too relaxed around these violent people. I'm surprised someone finds this funny.:moo:
Compassionate Reader
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Very true. Those that continue to bring up Damien's mental state are grasping at straws. Unfortunately, he was a very unhappy teenager, which led to some bizarre statements (some solely to impress mental health workers and some solely to frighten peers). Any "violent outbursts" are nothing more than I've seen in many of my former students - and none of them committed murder.
As I've pointed out repeatedly, should Damien's teenaged angst-ridden writings and careless statements have led the police to investigate him? Absolutely! Are they proof that he committed these murders? Absolutely not! Before arresting him, the police should have found something other than the outrageous (and inaccurate) statement of a mentally-challenged teenager upon which to base their suspicions. The problem is that there was nothing else! They needed a scapegoat, and Damien fit the bill nicely.
Proof that someone is a murderer should be more substantial than angst-ridden journal writings, foolish teenaged actions and sarcastic statements. However, that is all it took two juries in Arkansas to try to deprive an innocent man of his life. But, as I've said before, that's why we have an appeals process in this country - to right the wrongs of the juries.
Okay - having trawled through hundreds of pages regarding Echols' mental health, here's a few thoughts...
- Damien's family really messed him up. I see a kid grasping desperately for a sense of personal power, anywhere he could. This doesn't mean I approve of the behaviours, mind you, but I do understand where they came from and what his intentions were with a lot of it.
- Having been one of these kids myself, and later worked in an advisory capacity with a few very similar, I know that a majority of the 'bizarre and unusual behaviour' and talk is so much hot air, a self-comforting gesture that alleviates inescapable stress in an abusive and dysfunctional home environment, and a profound sense of personal disempowerment in general. That said, it's a very different thing to deliberately causing actual harm to the self or another. It all needs to be put in context in a sensible way, one not based in high moral outrage at lifestyle choices, etc.
- I see behaviours that do well and truly warrant concern over his potential to cause harm to himself or others. And I'm certainly not one to over-react, as you can see above... Damien crossed the line into physical violence, and made some pretty serious threats that caused others real concern about their safety. This is not to say that I believe he murdered those little boys, I am actually choosing to remain completely undecided for the moment, in the name of keeping a balanced POV as I research.. But I do think he could have ended up hurting -somebody- quite badly, if left on the path he was on.
- I think it's a pity that the focus of Damien's mental health issues was not placed solely on what physical actions he'd taken to harm himself or others. Non-physical (by this I mean not harming anyone), outward expression of internal pain should not be seen as proof of a crime or evidence as to the propensity of anyone to commit a crime.
- There's an awful lot of credence given to hearsay and rumour in those documents.
- I do think Damien was in serious need of help at the time of his arrest. I don't at all think he was beyond help, and being removed from his family environment and given some down to earth practical help in gaining a healthy sense of self within society might well have turned him around for the better. I've seen far worse cases become healthy adults in those circumstances.
These are just some of my thoughts so far, and don't mean I'm superglued to any particular opinion or theory.
Reading his case files made me very sad for the child he once was, as I feel for any child who is not nurtured properly.
- Damien's family really messed him up. I see a kid grasping desperately for a sense of personal power, anywhere he could. This doesn't mean I approve of the behaviours, mind you, but I do understand where they came from and what his intentions were with a lot of it.
- Having been one of these kids myself, and later worked in an advisory capacity with a few very similar, I know that a majority of the 'bizarre and unusual behaviour' and talk is so much hot air, a self-comforting gesture that alleviates inescapable stress in an abusive and dysfunctional home environment, and a profound sense of personal disempowerment in general. That said, it's a very different thing to deliberately causing actual harm to the self or another. It all needs to be put in context in a sensible way, one not based in high moral outrage at lifestyle choices, etc.
- I see behaviours that do well and truly warrant concern over his potential to cause harm to himself or others. And I'm certainly not one to over-react, as you can see above... Damien crossed the line into physical violence, and made some pretty serious threats that caused others real concern about their safety. This is not to say that I believe he murdered those little boys, I am actually choosing to remain completely undecided for the moment, in the name of keeping a balanced POV as I research.. But I do think he could have ended up hurting -somebody- quite badly, if left on the path he was on.
- I think it's a pity that the focus of Damien's mental health issues was not placed solely on what physical actions he'd taken to harm himself or others. Non-physical (by this I mean not harming anyone), outward expression of internal pain should not be seen as proof of a crime or evidence as to the propensity of anyone to commit a crime.
- There's an awful lot of credence given to hearsay and rumour in those documents.
- I do think Damien was in serious need of help at the time of his arrest. I don't at all think he was beyond help, and being removed from his family environment and given some down to earth practical help in gaining a healthy sense of self within society might well have turned him around for the better. I've seen far worse cases become healthy adults in those circumstances.
These are just some of my thoughts so far, and don't mean I'm superglued to any particular opinion or theory.
Reading his case files made me very sad for the child he once was, as I feel for any child who is not nurtured properly.
I have to ask, as a teacher you have seen a student try to gouge out the eye of another student, and seen him try to set the school on fire twice, and drink the blood of other students, threaten to kill himself, his parents, a police officer?
His actions certainly do not even imply he committed this crime, but when you call it teenage angst it certainly discredits your arguments.
Cherry
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Double triple Agree!:scared:
Cherry
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IMO Arkansas always loved using the cult theory and demonizing Damien; maybe it was subliminal at one time but it became the forefront of this case; he was; after all GOTH and this freaked out many a ppl esp in the bible belt communities.
Same thing happened in LA in the case against Scott Dys. I don't believe he killed any more than I believe Damien did. Damien is free now; and he will remain a free man. He didn't commit this crime; why is there a thread about his current mental state of mind?
What the Heck does anyone think their own mental state would be; after all he suffered?
Come now. He was on Death Row for YEARS. What do you think your mental state of "mind" would be; upon being released and why is this thread, even here? What matter is it to any one; what his current mental state is? He is so lucky to have his wife beside him and he is free, and I openly support any thing he attempts to do; to "make it" in society. As himself.
Same thing happened in LA in the case against Scott Dys. I don't believe he killed any more than I believe Damien did. Damien is free now; and he will remain a free man. He didn't commit this crime; why is there a thread about his current mental state of mind?
What the Heck does anyone think their own mental state would be; after all he suffered?
Come now. He was on Death Row for YEARS. What do you think your mental state of "mind" would be; upon being released and why is this thread, even here? What matter is it to any one; what his current mental state is? He is so lucky to have his wife beside him and he is free, and I openly support any thing he attempts to do; to "make it" in society. As himself.
Cherry
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Just an FYI: When you live in a cell that is 10x10 your sight then becomes 10x10 for years. There was no reason to see beyond that; and that causes blindness. It's not anything to joke about. It wasn't about the amt of books his wife was sending him; it's about the human condition and how we use our eyesight. FYI. And; what happens to your eyesight when you only have 10x10 cell to look at or in. Your surroundings become dim as your eyesight does.
rsbm
I think this is a good summary of the behaviours that actually -did- warrant close examination of Echols as a suspect.
I notice, however, that all of these behaviours are extremely reactive and don't involve random acts of cruelty. They're either violent reactions to adult authority figures (and he had a problem with those, as mentioned time and again in the documents) - police, parents, school. Or they're reactions to a directly violent situation with another student of a like age.
If I was seeing that he physically bullied or abused much younger kids with or without provocation, or there were actual witnesses to animal cruelty (the dog story appears to me to be a self-created myth on Echols' part in an effort to look more badass, and there's not one eye witness I can find to support evidence of any actual cruelty) or any other indication that Echols sought a sense of power by victimising the weak and vulnerable, I'd be leaning heavily toward thinking he was a good bet for the killer.
Echols was seriously messed up, to put it bluntly, but not in a way that implies to me he'd be likely to bind, beat, sexually mutilate and murder much younger children.
Of course, I have not read every single document in this case (yet) but I -have- read all 500+ of the mental health docs, and those are my own observations after that.