Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[gheckso]

I'm no mental practitioner by any means but I am quite confused by his actual mental state (then and now).

I don't have a particular opinion on his mental state, however, if he was so messed up and crazy as many believe then what would you expect him to be like after 18 years of life on death row? and I would think with little to no treatment.

I would have thought that someone with such a bad mental condition would be a blubbering mess after that much time. Down hill spiral so to speak.

What are the thoughts from the more learned in this field?

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm not a practitioner, ghecko, just did a degree in psych long ago..

But seeing Echols' interviews post-death row, and comparing this to his behaviour as a youth, I have to wonder if the isolation of death row was actually less stressful (perhaps -differently- stressful is a better term) than living with his 'severely dysfunctional' family (as the psych reports call it) and in his home town where he was despised for being 'different' and thus constantly on the defensive.

Ie, those triggers for his reactive behaviour were either absent (parents) or so all-pervasive as to offer him no choice but to learn to deal with it (authority figures).

So I'm not surprised he's come out calm and self-composed, for those reasons. I think 18 years in gen pop might have produced a very different result.

 

[Cappuccino]

I think he was

1) and adolescent who grew up

2) taking prescription drugs with side effects which disappeared when he stopped taking them

3) an awful lot of Exhibit 500 is nonsense in the first place.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I think the state is required to give medical attention to the inmates including those on death row. So, I believe he did receive medical care mental, dental, medical, vision whatever he needed. He also had a structured environment, 3-meals daily, clean clothing and bedding. Heck, he probably never had it so good before.

Just because we've not seen those medical records could be because they are private and the only way we're seeing the 500 files is because his attorneys submitted them during his trial for the penalty phase.

 

[NCSleuth]

rsbm

I think this is a good summary of the behaviours that actually -did- warrant close examination of Echols as a suspect.

I notice, however, that all of these behaviours are extremely reactive and don't involve random acts of cruelty. They're either violent reactions to adult authority figures (and he had a problem with those, as mentioned time and again in the documents) - police, parents, school. Or they're reactions to a directly violent situation with another student of a like age.

If I was seeing that he physically bullied or abused much younger kids with or without provocation, or there were actual witnesses to animal cruelty (the dog story appears to me to be a self-created myth on Echols' part in an effort to look more badass, and there's not one eye witness I can find to support evidence of any actual cruelty) or any other indication that Echols sought a sense of power by victimising the weak and vulnerable, I'd be leaning heavily toward thinking he was a good bet for the killer.

Echols was seriously messed up, to put it bluntly, but not in a way that implies to me he'd be likely to bind, beat, sexually mutilate and murder much younger children.

Of course, I have not read every single document in this case (yet) but I -have- read all 500+ of the mental health docs, and those are my own observations after that.

I have to disagree on these actions being reactions to "direct violent situations". The eye gouging incident. Echols attacked the kid from behind. Also, how is trying to set the school on fire twice a reaction? Or drinking the blood of others? Or threatening to kill oneself. Or saying you hate the entire human race.

These actions, and many others, in no way prove he committed the murders. That is not my point. My point is Damien obviously has serious mental issues and it drives me crazy to read his supporters minimizing it and comparing it to teenage angst. It completely discredits their entire argument.
Argue there was little or no physical evidence. Argue the Misskelley's confession was coerced or he lacked the mental ability to understand what he was doing. Argue the finding of the lake knife within an hour is suspicious. etc. I might not agree with you on these, but at least they are good arguments.
To argue Damien was a typical teenager with typical teenage angst is absolutely ridiculous! Completely discredits one's entire argument.

 

[Ausgirl]

I have to disagree on these actions being reactions to "direct violent situations". The eye gouging incident. Echols attacked the kid from behind. Also, how is trying to set the school on fire twice a reaction? Or drinking the blood of others? Or threatening to kill oneself. Or saying you hate the entire human race.

If you read my post, it'll become clear that I was saying these behaviours were 'reactive' to adults and other teens, rather than behaviour that was predatory or callous toward younger children.

My point is not that Echols wasn't troubled - it was that Echols' troubles don't indicate to me an obvious link to child murder.

These actions, and many others, in no way prove he committed the murders. That is not my point. My point is Damien obviously has serious mental issues and it drives me crazy to read his supporters minimizing it and comparing it to teenage angst. It completely discredits their entire argument. .

I'm not a supporter.

I have minimised nothing. However, please feel free to be more precise in describing in how you think I have done so.

I did not say, nor did I imply, that Echols suffered only 'teen angst'.

Argue there was little or no physical evidence. Argue the Misskelley's confession was coerced or he lacked the mental ability to understand what he was doing. Argue the finding of the lake knife within an hour is suspicious. etc. I might not agree with you on these, but at least they are good arguments.

Yeah- but this thread is about Echols' mental state, isn't it. So, it's appropriate to discuss that here.

To argue Damien was a typical teenager with typical teenage angst is absolutely ridiculous! Completely discredits one's entire argument.

.. I also did not say he was the typical teenager.

I'm sorry, but I really think you might have replied to the wrong post?

 

[NCSleuth]

If you read my post, it'll become clear that I was saying these behaviours were 'reactive' to adults and other teens, rather than behaviour that was predatory or callous toward younger children.

My point is not that Echols wasn't troubled - it was that Echols' troubles don't indicate to me an obvious link to child murder.



I'm not a supporter.

I have minimised nothing. However, please feel free to be more precise in describing in how you think I have done so.

I did not say, nor did I imply, that Echols suffered only 'teen angst'.




Yeah- but this thread is about Echols' mental state, isn't it. So, it's appropriate to discuss that here.



.. I also did not say he was the typical teenager.

I'm sorry, but I really think you might have replied to the wrong post?

Sorry! I wasn't clear. I agreed with most of your previous post.

I started replying to the portion of your post about his behavior being a response.

I then quickly moved on to 'respond' to other posts by others. I'm sorry for mixing the two thoughts. I should have done two posts.

As I was typing it I realized what I was doing and that is why I used the phrases like "his supporters" in hopes of separating the thoughts (replies).

That part of my post was not directed at you at all, I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Cappuccino]

I have to disagree on these actions being reactions to "direct violent situations". The eye gouging incident. Echols attacked the kid from behind. Also, how is trying to set the school on fire twice a reaction? Or drinking the blood of others? Or threatening to kill oneself. Or saying you hate the entire human race.

These actions, and many others, in no way prove he committed the murders. That is not my point. My point is Damien obviously has serious mental issues and it drives me crazy to read his supporters minimizing it and comparing it to teenage angst. It completely discredits their entire argument.
Argue there was little or no physical evidence. Argue the Misskelley's confession was coerced or he lacked the mental ability to understand what he was doing. Argue the finding of the lake knife within an hour is suspicious. etc. I might not agree with you on these, but at least they are good arguments.
To argue Damien was a typical teenager with typical teenage angst is absolutely ridiculous! Completely discredits one's entire argument.

And if someone sets a toilet roll on fire and throws it at a light bulb, and someone else comes along and says he "tried to set his school on fire twice", do you think that discredits their argument?

It might even discredit one's entire argument.

 

[kyleb]

6/1/92 Adolescent Services Clinical Assessment Form:

Wet toilet paper roll threw it against a light bulb it exploded started a fire rolled himself in a blanket and set [cut] der a chair watching bec [cut] was bored.

6/1/92 Intake Data Sheet page 2:

Admits to having been suspended 7x this past semester for inciting fights at school, starting small fires, cussing. States in one fight he almost gouged out the victim’s eyes.

6/2/92 Psychological Assessment page 5:

He has been suspended X7 due to negative behaviors in the classroom. Information does suggest that Damien has set fire to his academic classroom on two occasions, that he has also been truant, engaged in physical confrontations while on school grounds and has, often times, threatened to put “hexes” on school instructors.

6/25/92 Discharge Summary page 1:

He related that he was suspended on one occasion, because he set a fire in his science classroom and also would walk off on campus on several occasions.

 

[reedus23]

IMO Arkansas always loved using the cult theory and demonizing Damien; maybe it was subliminal at one time but it became the forefront of this case; he was; after all GOTH and this freaked out many a ppl esp in the bible belt communities.

It wasn't subliminal. It was at the forefront from the very first day of the investigation. I think one of the very first notes mentions both cult/occult/devil worshiping or something along those lines and also mentions Damien.

 

[Ausgirl]

Sorry! I wasn't clear.

rsbm

It's all good! :hug:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

6/1/92 Adolescent Services Clinical Assessment Form:



6/1/92 Intake Data Sheet page 2:



6/2/92 Psychological Assessment page 5:




6/25/92 Discharge Summary page 1:

Im sorry, I just don't understand your point. He was a goofy pain in the neck, attention seeking kid.. Not a murderer.

 

[NCSleuth]

And if someone sets a toilet roll on fire and throws it at a light bulb, and someone else comes along and says he "tried to set his school on fire twice", do you think that discredits their argument?

It might even discredit one's entire argument.

According to evidence submitted by his own defense team.

"A case file dated 6/1/92 reports that Echols 'admits to having been suspended 7x this past semester for inciting fights at school, starting small fires, cussing. States in one fight he almost gouged out the victim’s eyes.' ”

That fires. plural.

and "He related that he was suspended on one occasion, because he set a fire in his science classroom"

He admitted to setting a fire in his science classroom.

So, maybe the other fires were not at his school, maybe he only tried to burn the school down, once!

 

[reedus23]

According to evidence submitted by his own defense team.

"A case file dated 6/1/92 reports that Echols 'admits to having been suspended 7x this past semester for inciting fights at school, starting small fires, cussing. States in one fight he almost gouged out the victim’s eyes.' ”

That fires. plural.

and "He related that he was suspended on one occasion, because he set a fire in his science classroom"

He admitted to setting a fire in his science classroom.

So, maybe the other fires were not at his school, maybe he only tried to burn the school down, once!

Meh. I know plenty of people who were suspended multiple times. Got into plenty of fights. Started plenty of fires. And yet, none of them ever killed anyone. Did Damien have issues? Sure. Did he need treatment? More than likely. Does that establish he had anything to do with these murders? Not one bit. It truly does show the weakness of the argument for guilt that this has to be relied on.

 

[NCSleuth]

Personally I don't know of a single person that was suspended 7 times in a single semester. Nor do I know a single person that tried to set his school on fire.
I believe his own defense submitted all this info, not the prosecution.

My point was not about his guilt or innocence. My issue is with the supporters that try to minimize his mental problems.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Personally I don't know of a single person that was suspended 7 times in a single semester. Nor do I know a single person that tried to set his school on fire.
I believe his own defense submitted all this info, not the prosecution.

My point was not about his guilt or innocence. My issue is with the supporters that try to minimize his mental problems.

I don't think he had mental problems. I think he had a troubled youth. I think he felt sufffocated in that one horse town surrounded by people who were not like him.

He is not a psychopath. He WAS a kid who was looking for attention.
I know people that had horrible trouble in their youth. And as adults are completely fine. They have good lives.

 

[kyleb]

My issue is with the supporters that try to minimize his mental problems.

Well as long as they're happy to sit by or even join in on Echols denying the simple and well documented fact that he lived in West Memphis at the time of the murders they can't rightly be expected to respect the character evidence regarding him, let alone the evidence regarding the murders themselves.

 

[reedus23]

Personally I don't know of a single person that was suspended 7 times in a single semester. Nor do I know a single person that tried to set his school on fire.
I believe his own defense submitted all this info, not the prosecution.

My point was not about his guilt or innocence. My issue is with the supporters that try to minimize his mental problems.

Well, won't get me to say he didn't have issues. The nature and significance of those issues we may differ on though.

 

[Ina Cognito]

Personally I don't know of a single person that was suspended 7 times in a single semester. Nor do I know a single person that tried to set his school on fire.
I believe his own defense submitted all this info, not the prosecution.

My point was not about his guilt or innocence. My issue is with the supporters that try to minimize his mental problems.

Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't say I've minimized his problems or take that view. I do know I am not a trained psychiatrist or psychologist so while I see Damian's behaviors as troubling and in need of urgent attention I can only lean on my psychology and criminal justice training to state that these things do not lead me to think the adolescent being discussed was a murderer or capable of that level of violence.Many people are making a jump here that I personally think they do not truly understand. It makes perfect sense to them because that's what they see but what is that opinion based on? What training, education or experience? Also, have those jumping to this conclusion raised a child with similar behavior or emotional problems? (I have and he didn't kill anyone) While I would not say these things are "typical" or "normal" I also would not say they are "unusual" or particularly "troublesome." If that makes sense?

 

[Ina Cognito]

He is not a psychopath. He WAS a kid who was looking for attention.
I know people that had horrible trouble in their youth. And as adults are completely fine. They have good lives.

The above I totally agree with.