SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[claudicici]

Also by bringing up the statistics clearly substance abuse is what drives up the violence factor.TH was a known substance abuser,Damien was not.Statistically how many times is an abused child killed by a substance abusing stepparent rather than a random teenager that lives in another part of town?I'm sure if we had mental health records of TH those would be very revealing.
What about Jason,what makes you guys think Jason is capable of this violence?Why would Jason and Damien pick up Jessie,a kid they barely knew to commit a horrifying crime?It's just not logical to me at all.

 

[claudicici]

I'm sorry, I think I'm missing something. Who's shoelace was the possible TH hair in?

the hair was tied into the shoelace that bound Michael Moore.

 

[IrishMist]

Where one sees it as it as three teenagers "intentionally" throwing around and mixing up shoelaces, another sees that nothing even near that to have happened, nor near what I explained in my opinion was most likeliest to have happened..

There was no intentional anything and throughout the course of three victims 8yoa being beaten, roughed up however one wants to call it, there was nothing about the beating, abuse and murder that was done in any type of an orderly fashion whatsoever..

Throughout the course of being beaten, shoes ripped off, clothes ripped off and a continued beating and assault.. Is it reasonable to believe that throughout the course of the attack beaten both before and after their clothing and shoes were removed.. Is it reasonable to believe that each victims shoes were removed in a uniform fashion where after more time passes with continued beating of them shoeless that upon the time that they were bound that their shoes had been removed in such an organized and neat way that the two little shoes were right there next to each of the little boys??

The evidence proves this not to be the case.. There was no uniform, organized fashion with which their clothes and shoes were removed prior to the time they were bound.. One shoe found having made it's way down the creek.. The clothes NOT in neat little piles near each matching owner of the clothes and shoes..

IMO not in anyway reasonable THAT the shoelaces were INTENTIONALLY mismatched.. Nor IMO reasonable that they were removed and placed in any type of organized or easily discernable way..

Just clarifying that I in no way believe nor stated they were intentionally mismatched.. IMO that's even more unreasonable than believing they removed them and neatly placed each pair just so.. So that when the time came to bind them they'd know whose shoes and laces were whose..

That is as clearly as I am able to explain that the likelihood is great that the laces binding Michael quite easily came from Stevie's shoes..

I suppose I could agree with the innocent secondary transfer of this hair except for the Jacoby hair being at the site, too. That, in my mind, increases the odds that TH was there.

And I suppose I could let that slide if I didn't find TH's stories to be conflicting and self-serving. I re-read his 2007 interview with the police, and I noticed several inconsistencies from his other accounts of his actions that night. He has said repeatedly that Jacoby was with him that whole evening into the morning hours; however, Jacoby himself gave a deposition that said otherwise.

There are a couple of things that popped out at me as I read through it, but one thing that really got me is when he claimed he saw a picture of Damien on his (Hobb's) couch with Stevie and Micheal on either side of him! Then he claims that maybe he didn't see it, maybe MB just told him about it. He thinks he may have seen it, but he can't recall...

I'm not saying that any of this is conclusive proof, but in my book, there's more to be suspicious of regarding TH than there is of the WM3.

 

[IrishMist]

It's my opinion only but the reason the psych record is brought up is because it is the psych record of a man convicted of murder in the 1st degree of the 3 victims..

Some opinions may be that he is not in any way proven connected to the murders but however he very much was found GUILTY OF THOSE MURDERS..

And was just very much FREED FROM DEATH ROW by the State that knew it couldn't railroad him again, IMO.

 

[Pensfan]

but Pensfan that is exactly why I am so confused by your posts.You are a certified psych nurse,you are stating that most bipolar people and schizophrenics are not violent , only slightly higher than in the control group without mental disorder.Therefore I would understand if Damiens mental health record would be brought up if someone he was connected to ended up dead.But there is no proof he was near the crime scene or knew the victims.I don't understand why his mental health record is being brought up as evidence of committing this crime.

Individuals on this thread have asked how can some people still believe that DE may have killed the three children. There is a violent subgroup of schizophrenics and this is why some, including myself, believe he might have killed them. DE admitted that he walked all over that town and he, at one point, lived close to the crime scene. DE's alibi's are weak and many tried to lie for him. There was a witness to DE torturing a dog and he had a dog skull in his room. (Jeffrey Dahmer kept skulls in his room too.) Did you read Dr. George Woods', board certified psychiatrist and neurologist, affidavit? DE was very delusional and having hallucinations. He was very out-of-touch with reality.

I have also cared for hundreds of patients that would have scored in the borderline MR range if tested. I realized many of these patients would have scored in the normal to genius range if administered a Street Smart IQ exam or if there was a Dealing with the Police IQ exam.

 

[claudicici]

I know I'll probably never get it but I just don't understand why you think Damien 's mental health is evidence in this crime.
I understand that most people that still think the WM3 are guilty seem to have a lot of faith in the system and just don't believe that they would ever do anything so wrong.
I understand Todd Moore feels like that and I have great sympathy for him.I'm sure thinking the case was closed helped him deal with his sons death.He admits not having read anything but what was presented at trial.
I'm glad there are posters with different opinions on this board but I admit I just can't understand why someone who would interdependently look at the facts of the case would still think the WM3 are guilty.

 

[Pensfan]

Also by bringing up the statistics clearly substance abuse is what drives up the violence factor.TH was a known substance abuser,Damien was not.Statistically how many times is an abused child killed by a substance abusing stepparent rather than a random teenager that lives in another part of town?I'm sure if we had mental health records of TH those would be very revealing.
What about Jason,what makes you guys think Jason is capable of this violence?Why would Jason and Damien pick up Jessie,a kid they barely knew to commit a horrifying crime?It's just not logical to me at all.

Stepparent filicide is higher than non-family homicide. Two of the little boys were not family members of TH making their murders a non-family homicide.

If violently killed by a person who was psychotic (like Dr. George Wood stated DE was for the year preceding this crime), then the crime likely wasn't premeditated down to small details. Jessie was possibly just there at the wrong time when a psychotic person came into contact with defenseless children. It might also be that Damien and Jason intended to do something violent to Jesse, but found easier victims.

 

[justthinkin]

Respectfully snipped:

I just can't see a scenario where shoelaces are flying and swapped between three teens who all somehow manage to find a pair and tie up different boys, each with a pair that doesn't belong to them.

Besides, I believe the evidence is that each child was tied with his own shoelaces.

No need to rely on the faith of your belief when the truth is one click away.

Stevie Branch autopsy report: tied with one black lace and one white lace
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html

Christopher Byers autopsy report: tied with one black lace and one white lace http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html

Michael Moore autopsy report: tied with 2 black laces
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html

Now, take a look at this sentence from the jivepuppi.com, a supporter website.
The children were tied up by their own shoelaces. This is a topic of its own and the shoelaces are not discussed in detail below.
http://www.jivepuppi.com/evidence_the_clothes.html

The murders were committed in 1993. It is now 2011, and jivepuppi.com, run by jivepuppi, a supporter, is and has been carrying erroneous information regarding the shoelaces on his website when all he had to do was to retrieve the correct info from the autopsy reports, and it's clear from what's posted on his website, he's read them, and probably more than once. He's had something like 10 years to correct this, depending on how long his website's been in operation. Too many years have gone by for this to be a simple oversight, IMO.

On the page where jivepuppi addresses the shoelaces in depth, he does say they were likely mixed up, which doesn't agree with his statement on the other page.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I wonder how illegal drug use or alcohol would affect his mental disorder? Something makes him become violent. We really can't tell how he would act with being in solitary confinement, but before he was arrested and how about what he will be like now.

______________________________________

Damien Echols in 1992-93 was extremely disturbed and violent. He was institutionalized three times in the year before the murders. He made a suicide pact with his girlfriend. He threatened to kill the girlfriend’s father. He threatened his father with a knife. He threatened to kill his mother by slicing her throat. He threatened to eat his father. He threatened suicide regularly, by hanging himself or drinking bleach. He tried to gouge his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend’s eyes out with fingernails he kept sharpened to talons. He set fires at school and burned himself. He cut himself with knives. He tortured and killed cats and dogs. He drank other people’s blood and told a psychiatrist that drinking blood gave him power, made him “feel like a god”. He talked about getting his girlfriend pregnant, then using the baby as a human sacrifice. He claimed to be possessed by a spirit and to converse with demons.

http://wm3truth.com/the-west-memphis-three-were-guilty/psychological-profile-of-damien-echols/

_____________________________

Here is a link to Echols medical records, if you really want to know and see the actual documents.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html



Here is the document where he wants to kill people
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/3/368.jpg


Here is another: admits to having a violent history
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/092.jpg

Here is an evaluation where he is diagnosed with BiPolar disorder: See documents 095 through 101
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html

 

[justthinkin]

I know I'll probably never get it but I just don't understand why you think Damien 's mental health is evidence in this crime.
I understand that most people that still think the WM3 are guilty seem to have a lot of faith in the system and just don't believe that they would ever do anything so wrong.
I understand Todd Moore feels like that and I have great sympathy for him.I'm sure thinking the case was closed helped him deal with his sons death.He admits not having read anything but what was presented at trial.
I'm glad there are posters with different opinions on this board but I admit I just can't understand why someone who would interdependently look at the facts of the case would still think the WM3 are guilty.

What is your source? Where are you getting that Todd Moore hasn't read anything, but what's been presented at trial? I'm sorry, but I have to call total BS on that statement unless you can provide a source, and it had better be a quote from Todd Moore, himself.

It looks to me like you are trying to discredit him with that post for believing in the guilt of the WM3 , and frankly, I think that's in very, very poor taste and a bunch of other stuff I won't say.

 

[justthinkin]

Also by bringing up the statistics clearly substance abuse is what drives up the violence factor.TH was a known substance abuser,Damien was not.Statistically how many times is an abused child killed by a substance abusing stepparent rather than a random teenager that lives in another part of town?I'm sure if we had mental health records of TH those would be very revealing.
What about Jason,what makes you guys think Jason is capable of this violence?Why would Jason and Damien pick up Jessie,a kid they barely knew to commit a horrifying crime?It's just not logical to me at all.

Incorrect info on Damien there. On one of the pages on Callahan's 500 on Damien, Damien himself, lists his history of substance abuse, by naming all the drugs and stuff he'd done in the past. Offhand, I don't want to name them, and be wrong, but it is a list of 3 or more things, and more IIRC.

If someone has quicker access to that than me, I would appreciate it. I have no idea which page it's on. I just remember reading it there.

#042 Reports history of alcohol/drug usage- coke, acid, pot, alcohol…..
#145 Dad says that Damien has been sniffing gasoline
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html


And while we're talking about Damien and violence, let's see what's said about Misskelley.

MR. FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, in considering the defense's motion in this case the first factor to be considered as Mr. Stidham has indicated is to take into consideration the seriousness of the offense and whether violence was employed by the juvenile in commission of the offense. I don't think anybody can argue with the proposition that in this particular case there has not been a more serious offense committed in this judicial district ever than taking the life of the three eight-year-old boys.
Now, Mr. Stidham says in the defendant's statement he says he didn't do anything other than run down one of the boys and capture him and bring him back to the place where these three young kids ultimately died. That is what he says that the defendant says. Because he says it doesn't make it so.
Secondly, the Court is to look at whether the offense is a part of a repetitive pattern of (881) adjudicated offenses which would lead to a determination that the juvenile is beyond rehabilitation.
Well, in this case we do have a series of adjudicated offenses, delinquent offenses, that this juvenile has committed leading up to this offense. Dr. Wilkins himself finds that he's got an antisocial personality, that he has characteristics of his personality which would indicate an aggressive person. In the past he's had aggressive outbursts. He's been a heavy gas huffer. He smokes marijuana, drank a large amount of alcohol. He's got a life-long problem with getting very angry. That he's got mild-psychotic characteristics. That there's some evidence of malingering and finally again that he has this antisocial personality characteristic exhibited by his aggressive nature.
Your Honor, we submit that because of the seriousness of the crime, his past record as a juvenile, the prior history and character traits of this juvenile, that this case should remain in circuit Court, should not be transferred to Juvenile Court and should be heard by a jury of twelve and decided by that jury.

THE COURT (snipped by me)Further, the defendant Misskelley has a juvenile history involving assault and battery on another juvenile. Dr. Wilkins' testimony also indicated there was some proclivity or chance based upon the character traits that Misskelley demonstrated to him that aggressive behavior could occur again.
It is unclear to the Court, although I have a strong belief and suspicion from what I have heard and seen, that there is little or no prospect of rehabilitation and would so find.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/hearing_11_16_93.html

Note: Wilkins testified for Jessie's defense.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Thanks so much for the link to the jivepuppi..
Just as it states in specifics of the details of the laces and who was tied with whose lace it clearly states that it is not clear whether Michael Moore was bound from a black lace from a black shoe of Byers, or the black lace of the white shoe belonging to Branch, or if it was a black lace that went with his Cugas..

It makes it clear that this is not in any way documented as being known either way or for certain whose shoe that the lace that bound him came from.. Again thoroughly making my remark that the lace that bound Moore that was supposed to have a hair that "could be associated to T" on it very easily could infact been Stevie Branch's shoe lace..

Again thanks so much for the link where it's laid out in detail..
Here's snipped piece from link:

"it is unknown whether the white laces came from the white or black shoes[wht or blk shoes being Stevie's and Christopher's] or if Moore was tied with the laces from the Cuga"

Just further verification that this is not a known factual piece of evidence(I.e. That the shoelaces actually matched to each victim from their very own shoes).. Not a big deal at any point in this case and only due to Purposing the hair of TH could possibly have been found on a lace does it become even relevant to verify whether or not they were known and proven to be each individuals shoe laces that he was bound with..

Thanks again

Even further more concluding is that a hair was found on Byers white
Lace binding(which could likely have been SBranch's lace.. But it concludes that the Moore hair found is:

*** The court ordered DNA testing of anomalous hairs recovered from beneath the ligatures of Chris Byers and Michael Moore.* The hair beneath the ligature of Byers is well-documented, while the presence of a hair beneath the bindings of Michael Moore may be related to a confusion in the source documents. *]

Emphasis BBM IN RED..

 

[HRCODEPINK]

* Blue candle wax on one victim’s shirt was similar to blue candle wax found in Damien Echols’ bedroom.

* Police took a necklace from Echols when he was arrested. An outside crime lab later found blood from two distinct DNA sources on the necklace. One source was consistent with Echols himself. The second source was consistent with both victim Steven Branch and co-defendant Jason Baldwin.

[/url]

Respectfully, Snipped for space and because that is the part that I said I was going to look for. I just wanted to say that I am not ignoring this and am really looking it up, but you will probably be back before I am and I didn't want it to look like I said I would look and then disappeared (especially after I mentioned how much I appreciate you not ignoring my questions ). I have been on the Callahan site now for the last couple hours looking for the info on the wax (Haven't even started looking for the necklace stuff yet.) because I am trying to stay away from all blogs and forums and just look at facts. Because it is now Monday it is also now finals week and I have 2 finals and a midterm this week, so my time is going to be kind of limited, but I am still digging and looking forward to discussing this further!

 

[claudicici]

What is your source? Where are you getting that Todd Moore hasn't read anything, but what's been presented at trial? I'm sorry, but I have to call total BS on that statement unless you can provide a source, and it had better be a quote from Todd Moore, himself.

It looks to me like you are trying to discredit him with that post for believing in the guilt of the WM3 , and frankly, I think that's in very, very poor taste and a bunch of other stuff I won't say.

He said so in aninterview.I'm sorry I should not have posted it without a source and I'm looking for and can't find it right now but I'll keep looking.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Caylee's one hair was found in the trunk of the car with root banding consistant to decomposition and it wasn't enough to convict. I seriously doubt one single hair belonging to TH would have convicted him of 3 counts of first degree murder.

We have a detailed confession and:

Fibers found on the victims’ clothes matched clothes seized from Echols’ and Baldwin’s homes. The prosecution presented this fiber evidence at both trials. Supporters argue that those fibers came from common material found in many homes and that the fiber matches don’t really connect Echols and Baldwin to the crime scene. Frankly, I side with supporters on this one. The fiber evidence was weak.

* Blue candle wax on one victim’s shirt was similar to blue candle wax found in Damien Echols’ bedroom.

* Police took a necklace from Echols when he was arrested. An outside crime lab later found blood from two distinct DNA sources on the necklace. One source was consistent with Echols himself. The second source was consistent with both victim Steven Branch and co-defendant Jason Baldwin.

So it’s not true that there was “no physical evidence tying the defendants to the crime”. The physical evidence just wasn’t overwhelming. Just as importantly, there was no physical evidence tying any other suspects to the crime.


http://wm3truth.com/the-west-memphis-three-were-guilty/physical-evidence-and-lack-thereof/

A detailed confession? Shall I enumerate the many errors in that so-called confession? For starters, Jessie said that the crime took place at noon and the boys (and Jason) were in school all day. Jessie said that the boys were tied with brown rope and they were tied with shoelaces. Jessie said that Damien and Jason raped the boys and there is no evidence of that occurring. There's a lot more, but I'll stop for now.

The fibers were from garments available by the thousands at the local Wal-mart. Even the prosecution's witness, Lisa Sakevicius, admitted on the stand that she could not definitely say that the fibers came from those garments. Even you admit that this is weak. Why bring it up?

The wax was never proven to have been candle wax. It could have been from crayons or from some school project that they were doing that day. And, even if it is candle wax, there's no way it can be proved to have come from a candle in Damien's house. All blue candles will be made of the same wax. It's not even as strong as the fiber evidence (which is weak) and certainly not as strong as the mtDNA evidence.

The DQ-Alpha testing that was done on the blood from Damien's necklace showed that on one chromosome, Jason Baldwin and Stevie Branch share a short DNA sequence. Read up on it and you'll see what I mean. Further testing would have had to have been performed to definitely say whose blood it was. It could have been Jason's just as readily as Stevie's. Teenaged boys often cut themselves shaving you know. Unfortunately, the blood was destroyed in the original testing.

As to no other physical evidence, there were footprints apparently coming out of the discovery ditch made by adult tennis shoes that were said to be consistent to mens' size nine and a half or ten. Terry Hobbs wears size nine and a half. The tennis shoes Terry Hobbs was wearing around this time disappeared. The WM3 all wore boots.

Other circumstantial evidence exists against Terry Hobbs that is much more damning than the circumstantial evidence used against the WM3. Stevie's pocket knife, a gift from Pam's father that Pam says Stevie always carried and that she expected to have been found on the body, was found locked away in Terry's lock box, with his partials.

There's the fact that Jacoby refutes Terry's alibi at critical times. There's the fact that Terry, unlike the other parents, failed to report Stevie missing until after 9 pm when he went to pick up Pam.

There's the witnesses who have made statements that they saw Terry calling to all three boys (who were in the witness's back yard at the time) at about 6:30 pm on May 5 when Terry claims that he never saw Stevie or the other boys at all on that day.

There's the statements by Pam's family about Terry's abuse of Pam, Stevie and Amanda, proving his violent nature. There's the statement by Mildred French about how Terry abused his first wife and child and how he attacked her when she reported it to the police.

There's the fact that Terry shot Pam's brother (who later died of his wound) when the brother had come to stop Terry of being abusive to Pam. This was after the murders. There's the fact that Terry left town about two weeks after the murders (in the heat of the investigation, mind you) because Pam couldn't just "get over" Stevie's death.

There's the fact that Terry, by his own admission in the Pasdar deposition, quit his job because basically people were "too nice" to him by expressing sympathy for his plight when Stevie died. IMO that's pretty bizarre.

I invite anyone to watch the Pasdar deposition (or read it) of Mr. Hobbs. His actions and statements are extremely incriminating IMO. His disgust with the female attorney, D'Lesli Davis, who questioned him near the end is totally chauvinistic and disgusting.

Yes, the case against Terry is much stronger than the case against the WM3. I'm sure I've forgotten something, but what I've posted is damning enough IMO.

 

[claudicici]

Incorrect info on Damien there. On one of the pages on Callahan's 500 on Damien, Damien himself, lists his history of substance abuse, by naming all the drugs and stuff he'd done in the past. Offhand, I don't want to name them, and be wrong, but it is a list of 3 or more things, and more IIRC.

If someone has quicker access to that than me, I would appreciate it. I have no idea which page it's on. I just remember reading it there.

#042 Reports history of alcohol/drug usage- coke, acid, pot, alcohol…..
#145 Dad says that Damien has been sniffing gasoline
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html


And while we're talking about Damien and violence, let's see what's said about Misskelley.

MR. FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, in considering the defense's motion in this case the first factor to be considered as Mr. Stidham has indicated is to take into consideration the seriousness of the offense and whether violence was employed by the juvenile in commission of the offense. I don't think anybody can argue with the proposition that in this particular case there has not been a more serious offense committed in this judicial district ever than taking the life of the three eight-year-old boys.
Now, Mr. Stidham says in the defendant's statement he says he didn't do anything other than run down one of the boys and capture him and bring him back to the place where these three young kids ultimately died. That is what he says that the defendant says. Because he says it doesn't make it so.
Secondly, the Court is to look at whether the offense is a part of a repetitive pattern of (881) adjudicated offenses which would lead to a determination that the juvenile is beyond rehabilitation.
Well, in this case we do have a series of adjudicated offenses, delinquent offenses, that this juvenile has committed leading up to this offense. Dr. Wilkins himself finds that he's got an antisocial personality, that he has characteristics of his personality which would indicate an aggressive person. In the past he's had aggressive outbursts. He's been a heavy gas huffer. He smokes marijuana, drank a large amount of alcohol. He's got a life-long problem with getting very angry. That he's got mild-psychotic characteristics. That there's some evidence of malingering and finally again that he has this antisocial personality characteristic exhibited by his aggressive nature.
Your Honor, we submit that because of the seriousness of the crime, his past record as a juvenile, the prior history and character traits of this juvenile, that this case should remain in circuit Court, should not be transferred to Juvenile Court and should be heard by a jury of twelve and decided by that jury.

THE COURT (snipped by me)Further, the defendant Misskelley has a juvenile history involving assault and battery on another juvenile. Dr. Wilkins' testimony also indicated there was some proclivity or chance based upon the character traits that Misskelley demonstrated to him that aggressive behavior could occur again.
It is unclear to the Court, although I have a strong belief and suspicion from what I have heard and seen, that there is little or no prospect of rehabilitation and would so find.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/hearing_11_16_93.html

Note: Wilkins testified for Jessie's defense.

http://jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_3.html

" Damien described past experimentation with the following drugs/compounds: gasoline, propane, spray paint, glue, cocaine, acid, marijuana, speed, caffeine (sodas), tobacco (1 1/2 packs per day), and alcohol (ps. 234, 105, 168, 227, others). He denied regular use (other than tobacco) and said he had given them up because they interfered with his religious practices. In his two drug tox screenings taken three months apart, he was negative to all drugs tested, including alcohol (ps. 251, 397)."

 

[justthinkin]

He said so in aninterview.I'm sorry I should not have posted it without a source and I'm looking for and can't find it right now but I'll keep looking.

Well, if he said that, I don't know what he was thinking at the time because he has posted on the Hoax Board for years so he is privy to far more than just court testimony. He's an intelligent man, and he's also said on that same board that he knows this case inside and out.

 

[justthinkin]

http://jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_3.html

" Damien described past experimentation with the following drugs/compounds: gasoline, propane, spray paint, glue, cocaine, acid, marijuana, speed, caffeine (sodas), tobacco (1 1/2 packs per day), and alcohol (ps. 234, 105, 168, 227, others). He denied regular use (other than tobacco) and said he had given them up because they interfered with his religious practices. In his two drug tox screenings taken three months apart, he was negative to all drugs tested, including alcohol (ps. 251, 397)."

#251 negative drug test 06/02/92
#397 negative drug test 09/18/92

Those reports do not tell us what drugs he might have been doing or not have been doing at the time of the murders since the last test predates the murders by 8 months. However, clearly he was not an habitual drug abuser at the times referenced.

Sometimes Damien tells the truth, and sometimes he lies.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Check out the information on the laces. You will find out some important things. Yes, both Stevie and Chris were tied with one black and one white lace, indicating that the laces that tied Chris were not his laces and likewise for Stevie. But, they were the laces from the boys' shoes.

The lengths of these ligatures were about 30" each IIRC. However, the ligatures that tied Michael were not two separate laces, but one lace cut into two parts. We know this because each ligature only had an aiglet on one end. That means that this lace was approximately 60" long.

One of the boys' shoes still had the lace in it when it was found. One lace is missing. Why is this important? Because the hair in question was found under the ligature of Michael Moore, who was not bound with laces from the boys' shoes.

Additionally, the said hair is a red beard hair. How would a beard hair get onto a shoelace by "innocent" transfer? Isn't it possible that the lace in question was bitten into two parts and the beard hair got into the lace that way? The hair on the stump by the discovery ditch was just laying there, like it fell off somehow.

It is after 3 am here, and I have a busy day tomorrow. However, when I can, I'll give you my opinion of how things went down. I have studied and read about this case since 1996 and I might not be able to provide links for everything, but I'm pretty confident of the things I post. In the words of the Terminator, "I'll be back."

 

[justthinkin]

A detailed confession? Shall I enumerate the many errors in that so-called confession? For starters, Jessie said that the crime took place at noon and the boys (and Jason) were in school all day. Jessie said that the boys were tied with brown rope and they were tied with shoelaces. Jessie said that Damien and Jason raped the boys and there is no evidence of that occurring. There's a lot more, but I'll stop for now.

The fibers were from garments available by the thousands at the local Wal-mart. Even the prosecution's witness, Lisa Sakevicius, admitted on the stand that she could not definitely say that the fibers came from those garments. Even you admit that this is weak. Why bring it up?

The wax was never proven to have been candle wax. It could have been from crayons or from some school project that they were doing that day. And, even if it is candle wax, there's no way it can be proved to have come from a candle in Damien's house. All blue candles will be made of the same wax. It's not even as strong as the fiber evidence (which is weak) and certainly not as strong as the mtDNA evidence.

The DQ-Alpha testing that was done on the blood from Damien's necklace showed that on one chromosome, Jason Baldwin and Stevie Branch share a short DNA sequence. Read up on it and you'll see what I mean. Further testing would have had to have been performed to definitely say whose blood it was. It could have been Jason's just as readily as Stevie's. Teenaged boys often cut themselves shaving you know. Unfortunately, the blood was destroyed in the original testing.

As to no other physical evidence, there were footprints apparently coming out of the discovery ditch made by adult tennis shoes that were said to be consistent to mens' size nine and a half or ten. Terry Hobbs wears size nine and a half. The tennis shoes Terry Hobbs was wearing around this time disappeared. The WM3 all wore boots.

Other circumstantial evidence exists against Terry Hobbs that is much more damning than the circumstantial evidence used against the WM3. Stevie's pocket knife, a gift from Pam's father that Pam says Stevie always carried and that she expected to have been found on the body, was found locked away in Terry's lock box, with his partials.

There's the fact that Jacoby refutes Terry's alibi at critical times. There's the fact that Terry, unlike the other parents, failed to report Stevie missing until after 9 pm when he went to pick up Pam.

There's the witnesses who have made statements that they saw Terry calling to all three boys (who were in the witness's back yard at the time) at about 6:30 pm on May 5 when Terry claims that he never saw Stevie or the other boys at all on that day.

There's the statements by Pam's family about Terry's abuse of Pam, Stevie and Amanda, proving his violent nature. There's the statement by Mildred French about how Terry abused his first wife and child and how he attacked her when she reported it to the police.

There's the fact that Terry shot Pam's brother (who later died of his wound) when the brother had come to stop Terry of being abusive to Pam. This was after the murders. There's the fact that Terry left town about two weeks after the murders (in the heat of the investigation, mind you) because Pam couldn't just "get over" Stevie's death.

There's the fact that Terry, by his own admission in the Pasdar deposition, quit his job because basically people were "too nice" to him by expressing sympathy for his plight when Stevie died. IMO that's pretty bizarre.

I invite anyone to watch the Pasdar deposition (or read it) of Mr. Hobbs. His actions and statements are extremely incriminating IMO. His disgust with the female attorney, D'Lesli Davis, who questioned him near the end is totally chauvinistic and disgusting.

Yes, the case against Terry is much stronger than the case against the WM3. I'm sure I've forgotten something, but what I've posted is damning enough IMO.

For starters Jessie wanted to incriminate Damien and Jason, and not himself, so it's only natural for him to give a bogus time that the murders happened because he knew he had an alibi for that time. Jessie said he said the boys were tied with rope because he wanted to throw the police off the track.

No fiber expert will ever testify in any courtroom that any fiber is an exact match with another. They will either state the fibers to be similar or dissimilar, with added explanation. So it is a non-argument and misleading to the casual observer to claim that Savakius wouldn't say the fibers matched.

As for Terry and the Pasdar case, Terry knew what they were really up to, so why would he be cooperative? If someone's trying to paint him as the perp in his own stepson's murder why would he help them further that notion?

What's also important to know is that Damien Echols defense team has never brought up Terry Hobbs name in court in conjunction with him being an alternate suspect. The defense team has only said they have an alternate suspect.

It's all for show anyway because any court would laugh at a single hair from a parent of a child as having any viable meaning in a murder case.