Terri's Computer forensics

[gardeness]

So...I can't reconcile Terri's electronics use "before" with her "after"--LE apparently can't find any electronics proof "before" the Kyron disappeared, and for whatever reasons, "after", she was not careful about her texts (while knowing she was being singled out) and apparently some emails. Wouldn't it be just as important--maybe MORE important--to monitor oneself "after" a crime?

It's this thinking process that makes me wonder about her guilt...

 

[cluciano63]

She was not very careful with her phone with regards to the LS and MC, apparently, so I doubt she was that careful about her computer. I'm guessing she had normal e-mail activites and FB, with lots of people. K&D are not in a position to know who LE has contacted in every instance or what they have found and sometimes, computer forensics can take a while.

I still think whatever happened was an accident, if Terri, so not expecting there to be much on computer or phone of help. But more and more, I don't even really think Terri is involved, yet I can't say why. I think it has to do with D&K needing it to be her so badly-if it is not her, they can't let their minds go to what may have happened. And so they are trying to convince us as well as themselves.

 

[21merc7]

So...I can't reconcile Terri's electronics use "before" with her "after"--LE apparently can't find any electronics proof "before" the Kyron disappeared, and for whatever reasons, "after", she was not careful about her texts (while knowing she was being singled out) and apparently some emails. Wouldn't it be just as important--maybe MORE important--to monitor oneself "after" a crime?

It's this thinking process that makes me wonder about her guilt...

Um, I think just KH and DY are saying that. Not LE. Just saying.

 

[palladore]

palladore;

Oh, thanks palladore, I know about those, but I am hoping that the big groups of LE are helping in Kyron's case. Don't know if they are still in or just advised. (Doubt they are necessary, except for perhaps, logging in remotely but not being TH.)

Jed's is the only one I know of that all the big groups still cannot break in. No kidding, all have tried, no one can figure it out. Including NASA. Worth looking up, but you will be sick for a while if you look up too much.

Doubt TH has the capability is what I am saying.

Guess I wasn't clear. I'll try again. You and I can purchase inexpensive encryption software that *if used correctly* NO ONE can crack - including the big-gun security experts at the NSA. Encryption protocols have become so powerful that the number of computer cycles needed to crack them runs into the lifetimes. It is very counterintuitive - but you are better of using an encryption protocol that was vetted and selected as aninternational standard than a unique encryption scheme invented by a bright guy. This is because the "strength" of an encryption protocol is a function of the underlying mathematics - not its uniqueness. (Don't remeber off hand the name of the standards body responsible for encryption standards. It has been a few years since I dealt with security technology.) International banks all use the exact same encryption protocols - US, Russian, European - to send finacial data. In the case I mentioned, the Bad Guy was using encryption software that is readily available. The FBI couldn't crack it, so they resorted to using a keystroke logger to get at the password he used to access his encryption software.

Here is a link to an article about the organized crime case. The software metioned - PGP - is available as freeware and isn't particularly hard to use. (I have met the inventor - the company I worked for was considering investing in a startup he was involved with.) He wanted the software to be available for use by political activists in countries with little regard for free speach


http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/30/technology/30TAP

 

[21merc7]

palladore

I am not picking on you, but they can. (Federal child *advertiser censored* cases in the office.) I am sorry, they can.

 

[palladore]

palladore

I am not picking on you, but they can. (Federal child *advertiser censored* cases in the office.) I am sorry, they can.

I'm not saying every pornographer or bad guy is smart enough to select good encryption software and use it properly. I have no doubt that there have been many cases in which LE has cracked open stuff that pornographers thought was safely encrypted. I'm saying that encryption software is available that runs on a PC that no LE agency can break - when used correctly. I'm not an engineer, but have experience in security technology. It was part of my job to understand this stuff. I could list the encryption protocols, explain the mathematics they are based on and how the "strength" of an encryption protocol is calculated, but that is not stuff anyone on this board is interested.

 

[21merc7]

I'm not saying every pornographer or bad guy is smart enough to select good encryption software and use it properly. I have no doubt that there have been many cases in which LE has cracked open stuff that pornographers thought was safely encrypted. I'm saying that encryption software is available that runs on a PC that no LE agency can break - when used correctly. I'm not an engineer, but have experience in security technology. It was part of my job to understand this stuff. I could list the encryption protocols, explain the mathematics they are based on and how the "strength" of an encryption protocol is calculated, but that is not stuff anyone on this board is interested.

Sorry, I am telling you it can be cracked. You cannot buy a program or software that promises that, and expect your computer trails not to be there. No matter how many wipes. Just doesn't happen. Even programmer friends cannot do it. No matter the cost, no matter the encryption, no matter the promise, there are ways of getting the info. We can disagree if you like.

My only point is TH would not know just what I told you. The computer geek in the Horman household is not TH.

 

[palladore]

Sorry, I am telling you it can be cracked. You cannot buy a program or software that promises that, murder someone, and expect your computer trails not to be there. No matter how many wipes. We can disagree if you like.

My only point is TH cannot be that smart.

Here is a link to an article on the organized crime case I mentioned.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/30/technology/30TAP.html

The software that the FBI could not crack is called PGP. It is freeware and not very hard to use. PGP is built on industry standard security technology and runs without difficulty on the average PC. Some "for profit" companies offer front ends that make PGP even more user friendly. A lot of high tech people who travel a lot and need to leave their computers in hotel rooms use PGP - or one of the for-profit varients - to encrypt confidential company files. I had it on my company issued laptop when I worked in M&A.

 

[xin]

BBM
I doubt that since IIRC Kaine is an engineer with Intel. I suspect he knows a LOT about computers.

And I suspect they have tons of computers, phones and other connective devices.

 

[xin]

I used to do this for a bank. Wipe the old drives from computers. We used a program that was the DoD equivalent. The theory was that it was equal to what the DoD did to their old hardware to ensure data couldn't be recovered from it.

It was essentially what you said writing over the drive with 1s and zeros. Then re-writing it several times, over and over. This was phased out as it was found to be possible to still recover data, and we went to physically destroying the hard drives.

Lana Clarkson (Phil Spector's victim) had another computer, an older one. Her family, right after her death gave it to the Goodwill so it was gone. Detectives had already gotten her *active* one. Always thought that was interesting as it is one of the best ways to make sure no one gets to your hard drive. And no, Goodwill doesn't track. End of that road. Lucky Lana.

 

[xin]

I'm not saying every pornographer or bad guy is smart enough to select good encryption software and use it properly. I have no doubt that there have been many cases in which LE has cracked open stuff that pornographers thought was safely encrypted. I'm saying that encryption software is available that runs on a PC that no LE agency can break - when used correctly. I'm not an engineer, but have experience in security technology. It was part of my job to understand this stuff. I could list the encryption protocols, explain the mathematics they are based on and how the "strength" of an encryption protocol is calculated, but that is not stuff anyone on this board is interested.

[Pal: You never know who's on the board ]
my bold

 

[xin]

I told someone that if I am ever a crime victim to immediately ditch my machine in a bad neighborhood. Of course, that works till they find the LaCie hard drive!

Spill milk all over the computer, then run over the computer, make sure to crack as many parts as poss, poor gas on it, light it, in an alley somewhere. SRSLY. Easiest.

 

[sherbetjello]

Isn't it true that everything on a computer or SIM chip in a phone is never "completely" erased?

Only way, most times, to destroy any information that is stored on a computer/sim card is to completely fudge it up. Meaning, deep sink in a lake, toss of the the interstate, sledgehammer, etc. etc. So, realistically speaking, SIM card could be destroyed. I'm not too keen on if the searches from a phone are stored like they are when you search Google. If she was logged into Google from her phone then it is for sure that Google owns those searches, and they are required to release those to the police.

On a side note, there are programs that can run bits over and over onto information in/on your computer [there is one called Heidi that I use for RAW photos that don't delete well on my computer] and that program is preeeety good at deleting information from your computer. Nothing search related, though. I think it's basically used to delete things on/in your hard drive.

 

[xabigailx]

xabigailx

Welcome to WS!

Thank you 21! I've been a silent lurker till today.

 

[Kimster]

Thank you 21! I've been a silent lurker till today.

I'm glad you ended the silence!

 

[NewsMuse]

Ok, hard drives. Nothing wipes them completely unless you drill holes, throw on acid, burn in crematorium, spit, poo, throw in river with magnets and rocks, grind to a pulp.

And do not forget, every service you pay for has a record of everything stored in a server (big computer) somewhere in some sort of storage. Trust me. Murder cases, every email, every instant message, every single thing is right there waiting. Even all of this at WS.

Respectfully bolded and snipped by me -- And we can't forget that now all of our medical records will be digital. I just received my first email regarding some blood work done last week.

By law, every provider all providers must digitally archive records forever. So even if TH were using computers elsewhere/public, there will be some type of record. This is new since 9-11 and somewhere buried in Homeland Security regulations, which are constantly being revised to keep up (or trying to keep up). The latest FB debacle just goes to show how the interweb is not so private.

A bit O/T, but the rules for monitoring deposits are different now, too. It's no longer the usual set dollar amount. There are are sorts of variables involved: (1) suddenly depositing cash, any amount; (2) unusual withdrawals, cash, cashier's checks, money orders; (3) basically that changes from your normal activity and that will result in a "hold" being placed on your account until review. Kinda makes one wonder about TH's (probably not) $350,000 (which I don't believe is the true amount). Was she sticking away a little bit here and there without KH's knowledge? That I could believe, even on-line banking since he didn't seem to pay much attention along those line.

Um, I think just KH and DY are saying that. Not LE. Just saying.

Completely agree. And they might just be waiting on records from new leads. It would be a lot of info to sift through. I think TH just thought she was tech savvy, and KH probably did show her a few things. JMO of course.

[Pal: You never know who's on the board ]
my bold

Yeah, kinda funny to me. It would only make sense that she and/or her attorney have folks monitoring all sorts of sites besides WS, but especially WS.

All my opinion, of course. And an interesting thread btw.

 

[JustyThoughts]

Welp, good discussion and information. I think the bottom line related to Kyron's case it that anything on the computers/phones (of all key parties involved) is ultimately the key to having "hard evidence" of a person's involvement/guilt in this case.
I feel assured that LE is using the top forensic resources to get at the information on the electronic devices. As for all of us..... we wait.
Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Tink56]

Since LE has Terri's laptop and cell phone, I am sure she has acquired replacements or borrowed computers, etc.

In this case, say she has purchased a throw away phone, is there any legal power LE has to track her activity or anyway to do this? I'm sure her parents have computers. Can LE take these? Is there anyway to track "tweets" from electronic gear that does not belong to her?

I can't imagine her without anything electronic for the last month or so....

 

[STEADFAST]

I told someone that if I am ever a crime victim to immediately ditch my machine in a bad neighborhood. Of course, that works till they find the LaCie hard drive!

Spill milk all over the computer, then run over the computer, make sure to crack as many parts as poss, poor gas on it, light it, in an alley somewhere. SRSLY. Easiest.

Can't help it, but this just made me laugh, thinking about how it would look if LE came to get someone's computer and they had spilled milk on it, run over it with a car, poured gas on it, lit it on fire, and thrown it in an alley!

 

[Kimmer]

I would imagine that at this point in the game there has been a Judge that has issued a surveillance warrant for all of her electronics, so at this point I would think that LE is and has been tracking all of her movements regardless of who's computer she is using....

Also 2 weeks ago my hard drive blew....I went to best buy and paid $60 bucks for a new one and had it changed out in 10 min...I then had to take hours to reload my operating system and all updated...While I was a best buy the guy who showed me which hard drive I needed told me that if there was anything on my system that I wanted restored (I had been working on my daughters wedding for over a year...All gone) that he could come to my home and even though I had changed out my hard drive he would be able to recover any or all of my old information.....My point being that if a guy at best buy can do this I am certain that the FBI and LE would be able to do it.....But I think they copied her hard drive earlier and then they probable gave her back her computer but I think they are keeping a very close eye on every keystroke of a computer or a phone.