Terri's friends want to distance themselves after being dragged into investigation

[wondering1]

What did she do in the videos that indicates to you she's not inclined to cooperate with LE? Just curious.

just her demeanor with the media, including that her dad was saying no comment; the fact that she, unlike the other friend, refused to comment; she appeared p*ssed off to me, etc. That she lied to WW about who she was when she was standing in her own house AFTER she voluntarily opened her door to them in the first place. All in context, including that she hasn't taken an ldt or provided statement to LE. The family's statement. All of that makes it pretty darn clear to me that she's not cooperating, and the video supports it. jmoo

 

[mauirain]

Just catching up on all of this. I've read the debate back and forth on DeDe.

All I want to say is, she isn't talking, Terri isn't talking, and Kyron is still missing. I just wish someone who knew something would talk and help him get found. The fact that these two are waving the "Rights" banner to remain silent just pisses me off to no end.

I know they have rights. I am hearing a lot about all of the rights they have. And I get sick of hearing, in every case, the rights of all people in those cases and how those people have the right to use their rights to protect themselves. Well you know what, they shouldn't have done the crime in first place or gotten involved with someone who did a crime. Then there wouldn't be anything to have to protect.

And you know whose rights I never hear about in any of these cases? The victim, who has no more rights if they're dead, little rights if they are alive. It's all about the OTHER person's rights and honoring them. I get so sick of that. It seems like justice runs so slowly because of being cognizant of rights. But I also know that we'd be uncivilized without them. Deep down, I know we have to have rights, even for criminals. Honestly, I am not against having rights, I am against people shielding themselves and saving their own asses with their rights.

I am also against kids constantly not having any rights. And being hurt and murdered, sometimes not even found because of it. And I get tired of watching the people who did things against them get all the rights in the world, rights the victims were never afforded in the first place.

So yeah, let them have their rights you know where while Kyron is still out in the cold somewhere. I hope they both sleep well at night with all of their rights as their blankets. I don't know if either is guilty or innocent, but I'm not liking what I'm hearing either. They obviously, though, only care about THEIR rights, and don't give a crap about Kyron's.

I do sincerely hope DeDe is cooperating in some way. Letting Kyron lay out there and rot (I believe he's dead, sadly) just nauseates me. And if she is innocent, then refusing to cooperate is not in her best interest. No matter if she's well within her rights, it still makes her look bad and like she's involved.

I know I've never been near a murder investigation myself and I hope to God I never am. Maybe them I'll appreciate rights more. But from where I sit, it's repugnant to me that these two are invoking their rights while Kyron is still out there missing. I would tell the police everything I know and take a poly. I would do anything possible to either clear myself as a suspect or bring this poor child home. I would not sit there, surrounded by my rights, and let this child get lost in all of it. That's just not right to me.

Maybe I'm jaded from all of the cases I've seen and all of the rights invoked. All I know is I just want Kyron found and justice served for him. I am for his rights over everyone else's here. And if people aren't going to talk to just protect themselves, that's sick. After all, and the biggest irony here, is that Kyron couldn't protect himself from what happened to him.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

I am with you all the way on this one. (unusual people), hiding behind attorneys and rights when this innocent child is the real victim here. I am sorry, but this is just how I feel. IMO It comes down to morals and humanity and a little boy lost.

 

[mauirain]

I am beginning to think that anyone who knows Terri or likes her even a little bit should have an attorney on retainer, for fear of Desiree and Kaine naming them in the press. I am really not liking that they are doing this, though clearly, most people do. I don't think they need to call people out by name; they could still be effective by pleading with anyone close to Terri to please help in any way possible. Threatening lawsuits is not the way to "make friends and influence people", so to speak, it tends instead to make one dial up a lawyer. And anyone close to Terri is well aware of what has become of her life since she has been scrutinized; I'd talk to LE but not without talking to my lawyer first and not without him/her at my side. This case is simply too bizarre; being innocent may not be protection enough.

Sorry, but i disagree big time. Desiree and Kaine are doing everything in their power to find Kyron....hey, if it hurts some feelings...oh well. Their baby is missing. If my child was missing, I would call WAR.........and I would not be bluffing.....sorry....MO

 

[mauirain]

I for one would say "bring on the madness" "bring on the mob" bring on whatever is necessary to find a missing child. If my home has to be searched, if my computer needs to be searched, if my yard needs digging up...do it. Even if my entire family needs to be sleuthed out...
If a day ever comes that I put myself above any missing child, someone just go ahead and shoot me.

Attack me in forums, attack me in the public... If I had nothing to hide, I'd not worry in the least about the public.

you and me both....Thank you!!!!!!!!

 

[Susan10]

I think I may have broken a record for using the word "advise" (and its various forms) in one post lol!

LOL! So what? Fight the guilt, dear one. LOL! Advise all you want. I never noticed it, btw.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have people I consider friends, either through work or from going out and about. I would totally understand if they distanced themselves from me if I were in this situation and I'd probably do the same if the roles were reversed.

Then there's my "best friend" who I've known since 1st grade, which is about 48 years. She'd stand by me and I'd do the same for her. Obviously, she knows I'd never be in the type of situation going on right now with TH but if I were, she'd be there for me. She'd probably tell me to turn myself in if I was guilty. However, even if I were guilty, she would never turn her back on me.

BBM

I have four people in my life that I can trust that way: my mother, my father, my husband and my best friend. All four of those people have showed me unconditional love.

If I did something terrible, I know they would still love me. It makes me a better person because even if I'm not particularly motivated to be nice to someone who irks me or hold my tongue when someone offends me, I'm always aware that I want to be the person those four people believe I am.

No matter what TMH has done, I hope she has at least one such person in her life. It can bring nothing but good.

 

[GrainneDhu]

To me, that is the strangest thing about this case. LE is tight-lipped, but appear to be leaking information to the media through the victims. The trouble is that the information LE is leaking, if indeed they are, may not be complete or accurate.

What worries me is that the FBI has been involved in cases in which innocent people's reputations were destroyed by the media after the FBI leaked information about the investigations and their suspicions. Two of those people were Richard Jewell and Stephen Hatfill.

And Wen Ho Lee, who may have been guilty of some laxity in handling documents. But since every other researcher at Los Alamos was guilty of exactly the same thing, it makes singling Lee out for prosecution highly questionable, to say the least. I say Lee "may have been guilty" because his guilty plea came only after months of accusations and solitary confinement (which arguably amounted to mental torture).

So questionable that the US government ended up paying him $1.6 million dollars; both the president and a federal judge actually apologised to him for the misconduct of the government.

What is really sad is that Hatfill and Lee will never work in research again. Having known many researchers, I can only guess that it feels like having an important part of one's heart ripped out and burned publicly. Great researchers aren't in it for the money and no amount of money can make up for the loss.

Constitutional rights that only apply when things are going well and nothing is at stake are not worthy of the name. You might better call them constitutional conveniences. Or fairy tales.

The only constitutional rights that matter are the ones that apply even when unpopular.

 

[BeanE]

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

I am with you all the way on this one. <name calling removed by BeanE> hiding behind attorneys and rights when this innocent child is the real victim here. I am sorry, but this is just how I feel. IMO It comes down to morals and humanity and a little boy lost.

It's going way too far, IMO, to insult people who get attorneys before COOPERATING and going to LE. Getting an attorney does no disservice whatsoever to the victim.

 

[Calliope]

I am beginning to think that anyone who knows Terri or likes her even a little bit should have an attorney on retainer, for fear of Desiree and Kaine naming them in the press. I am really not liking that they are doing this, though clearly, most people do. I don't think they need to call people out by name; they could still be effective by pleading with anyone close to Terri to please help in any way possible. Threatening lawsuits is not the way to "make friends and influence people", so to speak, it tends instead to make one dial up a lawyer. And anyone close to Terri is well aware of what has become of her life since she has been scrutinized; I'd talk to LE but not without talking to my lawyer first and not without him/her at my side. This case is simply too bizarre; being innocent may not be protection enough.

Exactly.

 

[Calliope]

DS's father...wow, that poor man. He looks so distraught. I feel for him being dragged into this. Poor guy.

sbm

Maybe he's distraught because his daughter is being dragged through the mud for doing what he advised her to do. JMO, of course.

 

[nyvictoria]

Kyron's family now puts the public pressure on 43-year-old Dede Spicher, one of Terri Horman's friends whom they have said is hampering the investigation. But here's where this gets even more interesting:

Spicher's father, Don Spicher works for Klamath County - the same county that took the lead on the expanded search for Kyron.

However, the sheriff there assures us Deputy Spicher is part time and only works summers for marine patrol, and had nothing at all to do with the search and rescue operation. Even so, "he has to be very careful that he's not walking the edge, helping his daughter potentially avoid apprehension or in anyway hinder this case," McCain said.

We spoke to DeDe's cousin Saturday. He said his uncle is an honorable man who DeDe looks up to. Her cousin said that if the deputy asked DeDe to cooperate she would.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/99180424.html

bb RubyRed
underlined by me

This is a very odd choice of words. Potentially avoid apprehension? Why would the McCain (Klamath County Sherrif) even mention apprehension?

 

[Calliope]

I for one would say "bring on the madness" "bring on the mob" bring on whatever is necessary to find a missing child. If my home has to be searched, if my computer needs to be searched, if my yard needs digging up...do it. Even if my entire family needs to be sleuthed out...
If a day ever comes that I put myself above any missing child, someone just go ahead and shoot me.

Attack me in forums, attack me in the public... If I had nothing to hide, I'd not worry in the least about the public.

And what if, through no fault of your own, LE finds something, anything, that implicates you in any way? What if LE suspects you of being involved? What if, oh let's say... a landscaper ... convinces them that you were involved in plot to harm or kill someone. LE is under no obligation to tell you the truth. You could be as pure and innocent as the driven snow, but if they think (even mistakenly think) that you may be involved in the slightest, they WILL find something they can use against you. Also keep in mind that a search warrant specifically states where they are searching and what they are looking for and can seize if found. Give them free access without a warrant, and everything is fair game.

If the police were to show up at my door and ask to search my property for a missing child, I'd say go for it.

If they were to show up and ask to enter my house and search my computer, or phone records or *whatever*, I'd say show me the warrant --- after placing a call to my attorney. Especially if I knew I was innocent. LE is not in the business of establishing innocence. Their job is to catch criminals. If they want that sort of information, they are looking to make a connection to a crime.

Mistakenly implicating innocents does not help find Kyron. If anything, it does exactly what D, K, and T warn against in their threat to Dede... delays finding him and bringing him home.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

This is a very odd choice of words. Potentially avoid apprehension? Why would the McCain (Klamath County Sherrif) even mention apprehension?

What follows from DS potentially knowing something about the case? That she may be directly involved. What follows from that? Potential apprehension.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

bb RubyRed
underlined by me

This is a very odd choice of words. Potentially avoid apprehension? Why would the McCain (Klamath County Sherrif) even mention apprehension?

Bruce McCain is not the Sheriff.

He is a lawyer and one of the "experts" the news uses constantly, like CW Jensen, the former detective.

They are just fillers.


ETA: I have to vent a moment. This irks me to no end. The news reporters are beyond irresponsible. A few days ago they showed footage of a "search" of the brick-front home in Tualatin. That wasn't a dang search, that was a couple of movers taking boxes into a truck. Their fast-food lunch was on top of the minivan.

Now this story is badly worded (getting so common) to try and make us believe what is not true at all. You have to click the video to see who actually says what they imply someone else said.

Pissing me off.

Rant over.

 

[TxLady2]

Angel, Tx, and anyone else I'm forgetting: I totally understand your viewpoint and to some degree I agree with it. However, in this case, I do not understand why DD won't talk. If she knows NOTHING - especially if she knows nothing - why can't she just say that? I know all too well how people get railroaded into things, but I still think it's in her best interest to just tell them what she knows - even if it's nada. IMO, she may be guilty of nothing, but this behavior doesn't point to that. I can't tell you how many times I've listened to Marc Klaas and others tell people to get themselves ruled out of a case. I guess this sticks with me. Again, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, b/c I know we each feel strongly about this issue. If it were another case, I might be right on board with you, but not in this case.

I do agree for the most part. I'm just not sure to what degree she is involved, and I wonder how Kaine and Desiree know that she is not cooperating, or that she has advised other friends not to talk.
So far I've only seen reports that she refused to talk to reporters.
I could be way behind because I was offline since yesterday.
And I'm still a little skeptical about the parents implicating her as a possible accomplice, rather than that information coming from LE. I don't believe I've seen many cases where the family seems to be so heavily involved in an investigation. It baffles me.

 

[Calliope]

I had the opposit happen to me when I was read my rights and questioned about a certain crime. I was very truthful with police and when they read my my rights, I told them I had nothing to hide. The police then drove me to the police station, where a witness was waiting to identify me.....well, the witness said it wasn't me...on the way home, the officer and leutenant (sp?) thanked me for my cooperation and then treated me to lunch.....yeah, for real. So, for me, I felt at the time that the best thing was to fully cooperate and it paid off, never heard anything more from police, and I still see the officer sometimes and he has always remembered me and says hello. I never gave them any attitude, I just wanted to clear my name and that is what happened......they were very professional before I was cleared and very nice after i was cleared. The crime was an assault that a friend of my brother commited and they were in a similar vehicle to mine. my brother was not involved either.

bbm

You were damned lucky.

What if the witness hadn't got a good enough look to say for certain it wasn't you they'd seen?

BTW, before you agreed to talk to them and go in to be ID'd, did you know everything they had that led them to believe you may be a suspect?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Not responding to anyone in particular, but something is bothering me.

It seems like the only one who "didn't cooperate" had her name released to the media. By Kaine, Desiree, and Tony in that letter. The other two have not been "outed" in the same way.

snipped by me...

Herding,

Logically I can understand where you're coming from, but when a child enters the equation, all bets are off. I think anyone - especially an adult and especially someone who knew the family and Kyron - MUST come forward when asked. There just isn't another option for me. Kyron's "rights" trump everything. It's as simple as that.

As for the family releasing her name, it appears very apparent that this police department wants them to do some of the dirty work. And, I think they are tired of Terri's silence. In my opinion, this was a great move. They need to find their son and Terri's lack of helping to do so speaks volumes to me. I think the gloves just came off in this battle.

Our constitution doesn't give us rights that are only good until a child goes missing. Those rights are always afforded to the citizens of this country.

When that constitution was amended, it was decided that the end does not justify the means. That is what the fifth amendment is all about! That amendment was passed at a time in the world where many governments used the practise of torture legally.

Our founding fathers stood up and said no. No, no matter what the desired goal is, torture is not legal.

No one's rights trumps anyone else's rights. No citizen of this country is considered less worthy of constitutional protection than any other citizen.

Sometimes advocating the rights of some other people is difficult. If it were always easy, if it always came down to "what everyone agrees on" then there would be no need for rights at all.

I want Kyron found.

I do not want him found at the expense of innocent people being dragged through the mud. I do not believe that his life is more precious than the life of an innocent adult.

I don't want various government agencies to be put in the position where they have to apologise for their conduct, as in some very high profile cases. Every single time that happens, it damages the faith of the people in the power of the government. That faith is not boundless and endless, nor should it be. Pushing the limits of that faith via misconduct is a grave and terrible wrong against all citizens.

I don't believe that it is better to apologise after the fact than to get permission in advance (for permission, read "do things right").

 

[TxLady2]

Just catching up on all of this. I've read the debate back and forth on DeDe.

All I want to say is, she isn't talking, Terri isn't talking, and Kyron is still missing. I just wish someone who knew something would talk and help him get found. The fact that these two are waving the "Rights" banner to remain silent just pisses me off to no end.

I know they have rights. I am hearing a lot about all of the rights they have. And I get sick of hearing, in every case, the rights of all people in those cases and how those people have the right to use their rights to protect themselves. Well you know what, they shouldn't have done the crime in first place or gotten involved with someone who did a crime. Then there wouldn't be anything to have to protect.

And you know whose rights I never hear about in any of these cases? The victim, who has no more rights if they're dead, little rights if they are alive. It's all about the OTHER person's rights and honoring them. I get so sick of that. It seems like justice runs so slowly because of being cognizant of rights. But I also know that we'd be uncivilized without them. Deep down, I know we have to have rights, even for criminals. Honestly, I am not against having rights, I am against people shielding themselves and saving their own asses with their rights.

I am also against kids constantly not having any rights. And being hurt and murdered, sometimes not even found because of it. And I get tired of watching the people who did things against them get all the rights in the world, rights the victims were never afforded in the first place.

So yeah, let them have their rights you know where while Kyron is still out in the cold somewhere. I hope they both sleep well at night with all of their rights as their blankets. I don't know if either is guilty or innocent, but I'm not liking what I'm hearing either. They obviously, though, only care about THEIR rights, and don't give a crap about Kyron's.

I do sincerely hope DeDe is cooperating in some way. Letting Kyron lay out there and rot (I believe he's dead, sadly) just nauseates me. And if she is innocent, then refusing to cooperate is not in her best interest. No matter if she's well within her rights, it still makes her look bad and like she's involved.

I know I've never been near a murder investigation myself and I hope to God I never am. Maybe them I'll appreciate rights more. But from where I sit, it's repugnant to me that these two are invoking their rights while Kyron is still out there missing. I would tell the police everything I know and take a poly. I would do anything possible to either clear myself as a suspect or bring this poor child home. I would not sit there, surrounded by my rights, and let this child get lost in all of it. That's just not right to me.

Maybe I'm jaded from all of the cases I've seen and all of the rights invoked. All I know is I just want Kyron found and justice served for him. I am for his rights over everyone else's here. And if people aren't going to talk to just protect themselves, that's sick. After all, and the biggest irony here, is that Kyron couldn't protect himself from what happened to him.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.
BUT... the point is, she may not know anything more to tell. She may have already told them she had no knowledge of where Kyron is.
To be implicated publicly by the parents of this missing child, and threatened with a civil suit if she doesn't cooperate... that certainly would make a person invoke their rights pretty dang quick, I would say. And if this is a ploy by LE, to scare someone, then I have to say... it's just not responsible of them, at all. It's not the way to run an investigation, IMHO.
Let's not assume that she knows what happened, or knows where Kyron is, until we have proof. All this talk about the victim's rights versus anyone else's is beside the point. We simply do not know at this point who is responsible and who knows what, if anything.

 

[TxLady2]

I can't think of the last case I've reviewed where anyone was cleared outright until the case was solved. Not. One. Person.

If there is a statement put into the press which points out that someone believes I'm not cooperating enough to their liking with the police and then the threat that if I don't cooperate to their satisfaction, they will pursue civil actions against me, I'd have my lawyer tied to my hip for however long it takes me and I'd not say a damn thing.

EXACTLY!!! :blowkiss:

 

[GrainneDhu]

I could be completely wrong here, but doesn't your "right" to remain silent only come into effect when you are charged with a crime? Otherwise, do you not have an obligation to cooperate with LE and provide whatever information you may have? I guess you can always invoke your 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself, but that implies you are guilty of something.

There are something like 10,000 federal crimes. There are even more state crimes, if you add up all fifty states. And then there is the IRS, which has developed into its own legal system (and a very scary one).

I have no way to know if I am in full compliance of the law at this moment or not. I think I am. I try to live a law abiding life. But I do not know for a fact that I am.

For instance, a couple months ago, I bought a dried flower arrangement at a craft fair. It came in a basket with beads and shells and feathers decorating it.

Do I know the names of every single bit of plant matter in that arrangement? No. Therefore, I don't know if it is fully legal in my state or not.

Do I know the provenance of the shells and feathers that decorate it? No. Therefore, I don't know if it is fully legal in my state or not.

Do I know whether the person I bought this arrangement from illegally acquired or stole any element of the arrangement? No. I spent maybe ten minutes with her total and that included other people asking her about her display. Therefore, I do not know whether I received illegal or stolen goods. I didn't even make much of an attempt to ascertain that I did not; I could have asked for receipts showing provenance of all the elements but I didn't.

That arrangement could be in violation of a number of laws and regulations and I do not know it. Add to that the fact that ignorance is not a valid defence.

So, say I were friends with someone that I believed was being unjustly accused of a terrible crime. And even though I know that I am innocent of anything at all to do with that crime, the police are now knocking on my door and they want to question me.

Are they offering me legal immunity for anything they might see in my home that is illegal but not directly related to the search for Kyron? If not, so sorry, go get a search warrant.

Are they offering me immunity for anything I might say during questioning not directly related to the search for Kyron? If not, so sorry, I won't answer a single question without legal representation. And I highly doubt a lawyer would advise me to answer any questions!

There was a case in Seattle last winter where an innocent bystander was accused of some piffling offence for asserting his right not to identify himself without probable cause. The police officer proceeded to threaten him and then lied about it in order to charge him.

Too bad the victim turned out to be a computer expert who was able to figure out the city's complicated surveillance databank and prove that the officer was lying. The videotape exonerated the victim.

And now, literally thousands of cases from that jurisdiction are being re-examined because when the system is caught red handed once, it tends to make everyone suspicious.

I lack a certain amount of faith in LE and it is founded on very real cases of malfeasance, some high profile, some not.