Terri's friends want to distance themselves after being dragged into investigation

[human]

I dunno, my crowd is into healthy food, but they also choose their battles. They eat mostly healthy, but then sometimes they feel it's important to recreate the same type of holiday experiences they had as children, petrochemical sprinkles and all. My good friend is formerly an organic farmer, back-to-the-land-eco everything, but when her teen daughter wanted to make some gawdawful cake for her birthday--I can't remember what it was but I'm pretty sure it involved confetti cake mix--she totally supported her and they had a lot of fun. I think part of the fun is the irony of making something that is so unhealthy, if that makes sense. This same child has a thing for marshmallow peeps, and she does know that they're not really food. JMHO

teenagers are different. We are talking about a 7 year old and a baby.

 

[Haeve]

teenagers are different. We are talking about a 7 year old and a baby.

I was just trying to give some anectodal evidence. All I'm saying is the people I know who mostly eat organic natural foods are not purists. I could see them feeding their kids the occasional unhealthy food at any age. Nobody I know would say "you're not feeding that to my kid", nor would they comment on their friends' food choices. At least not to their face.

 

[sofia76]

A while back, a month or more ago, there was a report that some people near the school and the Hormans' home did not allow searchers to search their properties. Should the names of these people have been given to Desiree and Kaine so that they could call out these people as well? These people "weren't cooperating" either and we don't know if they had anything to hide about Kyron, or if they grow pot, or if they simply were exercising their rights.

I don't think it's just a matter of Dede not cooperating, but that there is something that makes the parents think she KNOWS something.

The major distinction here is that the people calling out Dede is not Law Enforcement. It is Kyron's parents. They can say whatever they want. They could even be planning a civil suit against Terri if the police can't make a case, in which case they probably wouldn't care about offending anyone or releasing these statements. After all, if you really believe that someone has kidnapped or murdered your child, wouldn't you want to make their lives hell even if they managed to evade conviction and incarceration? I know I would.

The bottom line for me is that there are no guarantees. There's no guarantee that the police will do their jobs well and catch a perp. There is no guarantee that the police won't eff up and catch the WRONG perp. There is no guarantee that, once they catch the guilty person, that the person will be found guilty, or serve a suitable amount of time in prison. There is no guarantee that an innocent person won't be found guilty of the crime and serve time in prison.

If I were unlucky enough to find myself in this nightmarish situation, I'd be doing the best I could; I suspect in this case, most of the people involved are doing their best. But everyone involved is human.

 

[human]

I am a big proponent of healthy food, eating locally produced food, organic food, and whole grains. I do serve my family highly nutritious, well balanced, healthy meals, but I do not force anyone to eat tofu.

I would not even consider denying my children birthday cakes, Christmas cookies, and other homemade cookies and desserts. I make the birthday cakes the children request -- and two of them always want cakes made from boxed mixes and canned frosting (and sometimes sprinkles).

I am talking about a baby and a 7 year old.

Tofu is merely a base ingredient that one flavors to whatever kind of flavor.

There are all kinds of alternatives to Betty Crocker that are "equal" in looks to that.

I knew people would get all over my case about this.

It isn't just about petrochemicals. It's about pesticides, genetically modified organisms, food raised fertilized with sewage sludge, high fructose corn syrup, fillers such as sawdust, animals raised eating cardboard and carrion which may facilitate mad cow disease, and antibiotics, chickens and other animals raised on factory farms and some other issues I am sure.

Dede went as far as to get raw milk.

People who are into healthy eating are very serious about it and Dede appeared to be serious.

If you raise your children without that other stuff, they think it is normal. It is far more acceptable than when I raised my kids that was starting about 30 years ago when it was odd.

They had their rebellious period as teens, but they have raised my grandchildren as vegetarians. They are as well.

I am not a vegetarian, but wish to be . I am as far as wishing I could be a vegan.

 

[debs]

How is Dede's interest in healthy foods connected to what Terri fed the kids? My best friend has a Mac Attack at least twice a week, but I don't feed my children what she eats. I'm interested in her Mac Attacks, would love to have them myself. But her interest and my interest in her interest doesn't make it follow that I do as she does.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I still am mystified why the other woman who went through 5 hours of polygraph and apparently was not worried didn't invoke her "rights", but Dede is.

What is the difference here?

Perhaps ignorance about the risks involved is the difference.

I was an accountant in my early 20s, and one of my clients owned a construction business. He was brutally murdered in his home. The police called me at 3 a.m., to inform me of the murder and to see if I had his financial records. I answered their questions and gave them the records.

I didn't think about my constitutional rights or worry about becoming a suspect. I was completely ignorant back then about the risks.

Today, I think those risks are small, but the consequences to me could be severe, so I will do what I can to minimize the risks.

 

[gwenabob]

If it were me, I'd get a lawyer AND I'd answer questions truthfully.

And then I would ask my attorney to have a press conference and tell everyone that I have told everything I know and have fully cooperated with LE.

 

[sofia76]

I also am wondering about Dede's and Terri's relationship of mutual interest in gardening and healthy food.

1. Why didn't she hire the unemployed Dede to landscape her yard?

2. Healthy food. I have read Dede's blogs and twitters and she is into healthy food. The really healthy food that many of my close friends are into .

I actually thought that Dede's recipe for the watermelon smoothie with the spinach sounded like something I am going to try.

But, I saw pictures of the baby's birthday with cupcakes and then the picture of the St. Patrick's day where Terri had made something to eat with those sprinkles and it looked like some kind of boxed mix.

Someone who is into healthy food would no more feed their children that than they would feed them ground up tires. There are so many more healthy alternatives to give children than a boxed mix and sprinkles.

So, I do not understand this healthy eating and gardening connection. It's a mystery to me.

And I know that people will say those kinds of things are fun for children. But seriously, healthy eaters equate that kind of stuff with poisoning your body.

And if you can't control it for yourself, you would never serve it to your children.

1. If I recall from Dede's website and twitter, she is a food gardener. This is very different than being a landscaper. She isn't into transforming yards into park-like spaces, but into food growing spaces. Very different.

2. I'm not sure what Dede's dietary habits have to do with Terri's dietary habits? Here in the Pac NW you can't throw a stick without hitting someone who eats organic, local, etc. But few people eat that way 100% of the time. Even the most committed localvores tend to shoot for about 80% before calling themselves localvores. I don't recall Terri ever claiming to be a health nut or localvore. I don't see any contradiction here. And I'm unclear how it's relevant to Kyron's disappearance.

 

[1Chump]

I'm sorry, but I am not 100% convinced that LE is not leaking this information through DY and KH. Or, at least, that they did so in the beginning. TY does seem more circumspect ("connect the dots") than KH and DY, though.

IF KH and DY are "going rogue," then it would bother me a lot if they are hampering the investigation out of a need to vent. But if they are not hurting the investigation, and LE has told them these things, I do not have a problem with them "outing" these people.

They have said they are going to pursue a civil remedy. They have that right. How angry they must be. Think Ron Goldman's family's anger with OJ Simpson. They do not have any responsibility to meet the same standard as LE does for a criminal case.

My biggest issues with the parents repeating what LE told them is now anything the parents say is assumed to be coming from LE even when the parents NEVER say that.

The parents statement on DeDe is very clear. They start out:

We have been briefed by law enforcement on the most recent developments in Kyron's case.

"Briefed" says that they were not giving details. However, by leading out with this sentences, many are assuming the rest of the statement is based on what LE told them about DeDe. However, the parents are very careful to state that their information is other than LE.

We have been informed that they have identified a person that has been in close communication with Terri Moulton Horman since Kyron went missing and her name is DeDe Spicher. She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son.

Their statement NEVER states who informed them about DeDe. If LE told them, why does it not say LE has identified? IMO, because the most important part to them of how DeDe is not cooperating did not come from LE.

Usually with a statement, the most important part is at the beginning. To the parents, the issue they talk about first it not DeDe and LE. But DeDe is in "close communication" "providing support and advice" to Terri. Sounds like DeDe is being Terri's friends. The parents feel that DeDe being a friend to Terri is not in the "best interest" of their son.

Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron's disappearance, not to cooperate as well.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron...f-Terris-to-tell-what-she-knows-99076714.html

Again, their statement does not say how they know that DeDe is refusing to cooperate with LE. It also does not state how they know she is "suggesting" to others "not to cooperate." Nor does it state what those "suggestions" are regarding "cooperation." Most importantly, it does not state that LE is saying DeDe is refusing to cooperate with them.

It is interesting though that the only friend of Terri's that is publically named is DeDe. The two other "friends" are not publically named. What do we know about the other two "friends?"

Both said they feel they’ve been dragged into the investigation by simply being supportive of Terri and doing things like visiting her at her home.

But both said they are stepping away from the situation as much as they can because it’s simply not something they want to be connected with anymore.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/99146044.html

IMO, the only difference between DeDe who was publically outed and the other "friends" is that DeDe has refused to stop being Terri's friend.
I just cannot support the "outing" of anyone to be vilified in the public just because they are being a good friend.

IMO, we do not know if anything in this statement was told to the parents by LE. All we do know is that LE "briefed" them and someone else informed them about DeDe.

IMO, that is the biggest problem with the parents repeating what LE tells them. Now any statement the parents make is assumed to be coming from LE even when the parents state otherwise.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

And then I would ask my attorney to have a press conference and tell everyone that I have told everything I know and have fully cooperated with LE.

I may ask my attorney if it was in my best interest to have him/her to tell the media that i have told everything I know and have cooperated and follow his/her advise.

 

[BeanE]

In my experience, public defenders are assigned after the person is arrested.

There's Legal Aid for people who are low income to have a consultation without any arrest.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

People who are into healthy eating are very serious about it and Dede appeared to be serious.

I think there is a continuum. At one end are the extremely serious healthy eaters. At the other are those who subsist mainly on fast foods and otherwise seriously unhealthy diets.

I am to the left of center. Judging by what I know about people's diets where I live now, I am to the far, far left of center. (My daughter came home from school in absolute shock that they serve iceberg lettuce there. She wanted me to petition the school board about it. Now she wants me to do something to revamp the entire school district's lunch menu, which I agree is too far to the right of center.)

 

[Haeve]

<snip>

I knew people would get all over my case about this.

<snip>

I honestly don't think anyone is getting all over your case about this. I respect your food choices--I've been vegetarian, vegan and lots of other "odd" things. I just think most people aren't that black and white about their lifestyle choices and, as it relates to this case, people have friends with wildly divergent ideas about diet and health, so I don't think it's that odd that if TH and DS have differing ideas about diet and health, that they are still friends. One may have "seen the light", and chose not to convert her friend, or the friend resisted conversion. A few photos that include cupcakes and Easter baskets aren't really enough evidence to conclude how a family eats on a day-to-day basis.

I read a lot of popular and notable food bloggers who eat in the Weston A. Price tradition (raw milk is one of their tenets), and many of them 'fess up to their inconsistencies in their diets, up to and including eating fast food, for reasons that include bugetary considerations, keeping family traditions, or even just pure laziness! JMHO

 

[citigirl]

The parents statement on DeDe is very clear. They start out:

We have been briefed by law enforcement on the most recent developments in Kyron's case.

"

I don't see anywhere in their discussion that the parents imply they have gotten information from anyone but LE.

And I think they name Dede and not the other two friends because the other two friends cooperated with the police and Dede did not, as they said in the letter.

Further, something I haven't seen brought up--Kaine's demeanor during the Wall of Hope interview likely came after he learned all this from police (the three hour meeting). It must have been upsetting, indeed, to learn that, in addition to his wife, a friend of seven years was involved in the disappearance of his son.

Again, I do not really know who is calling the shots here, LE or KH and DY, but I won't rule out LE because of the reasons I've stated previously.

The strongest evidence I've seen that KH and DY are at odds with the Sheriff's department is the press release BeanE reprinted in which the Sheriff's Department said, the information coming from the family was NOT out of the Sheriff's office. But that could also be part of the good cops/bad cops strategy

 

[BeanE]

I bet there's at least one thread in the Jury Room forum for food.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think there is a continuum. At one end are the extremely serious healthy eaters. At the other are those who subsist mainly on fast foods and otherwise seriously unhealthy diets.

I am to the left of center. Judging by what I know about people's diets where I live now, I am to the far, far left of center. (My daughter came home from school in absolute shock that they serve iceberg lettuce there. She wanted me to petition the school board about it. Now she wants me to do something to revamp the entire school district's lunch menu, which I agree is too far to the right of center.)

OT: Actually, the school district is keeping up with what's trendy High-end restaurants like Ruth's Chris, Morton's, Capital Grille, etc. have iceberg wedges on their menus - usually served with crumbled blue cheese, bacon bits, etc. Head lettuce seems to have gained favor among foodies who no longer look down on this very '50s salad mainstay. Bon Appetit! jmo

 

[Cher352]

And then I would ask my attorney to have a press conference and tell everyone that I have told everything I know and have fully cooperated with LE.

Now that might be a good idea!

Personality I think Dede is probably taking the advice of her father. I would imagine with his knowledge of LE and the legal system he is the one that advised her to insist on a search warrant and to get a lawyer.

Many times on various legal shows and blogs they have said that anytime you a questioned in a criminal case you should have a lawyer. Just look at the Anthony case, almost every witness big or small there has an attorney. I see nothing wrong with this. Of course I think KH & DY may see this as not cooperating.

I also wonder whether LE in requesting a search could be looking for items that Terri may have stored at her friends' homes when she moved.

 

[debs]

Word to the wise: You let a police officer into your home and say "go ahead and search" they can and will take whatever they deem necessary to prove their case. If you insist on a warrant, LE has to be specific about what they're coming to search for, and can only take what it is on that warrant.

 

[ThoughtFox]

If no one let the police in to search, there would be alot more suspects. These police had warrants, which is good.

Don't most attorneys tell innocent people to cooperate? I remember Mark Klass saying that when his daughter disappeared and LE suspected him, he begged them to give him a lie detector test! And of course, he was innocent all along.

People who are NOT innocent also tend to lawyer up, I've noticed.

I was just trying to give some anectodal evidence. All I'm saying is the people I know who mostly eat organic natural foods are not purists. I could see them feeding their kids the occasional unhealthy food at any age. Nobody I know would say "you're not feeding that to my kid", nor would they comment on their friends' food choices. At least not to their face.

I agree! I live around the corner from a Seventh-Day Adventist community, and I have had several friends in my neighborhood with that faith that emphasizes health food, vegetarianism, no stimulants, no alcohol. The people who choose to eat meat try to stick to white meat and no pork (so they say).

Trouble is - on a day when Mom's too busy to cook, here come the happy meals or tacos. When it's a holiday, out comes the grill and you smell steak cooking and the beer caps popping. Kids have no soft drinks at home, but have them at a friend's house. Chocolate is suddenly okay on Easter. Kids get sick of eating pumpkin muffins or bean patties for supper, and here come the chicken nuggets.

That's life - people are human and unpredictable, and actually omnivorous carnivores. A picture of an Easter basket or a birthday cake only means they celebrate holidays and don't deny the kids their treats. None of that is enough to prove that people are friends or not.

 

[debs]

Misty Croslin-Cummings also sat for a voluntary lie detector test. Sitting for one does not an innocent person make.