The 911 calls

[Seaslug44]

Just for one moment, let's put aside the evil government cover-up/conspiracy theories and treat this detective's statements as being nothing other than pure facts.

When you look at it without immediately discrediting and bashing the homicide squad, this is what you get;

It is quite obvious that Ray has not listened to Gilbert's 911 call nor spoken to any investigators assigned to the case. His claims are misleading and lack credibility...

FACT #1: The family attorney does not have his facts straight.

I listened to Gilbert's 22-minute 911 call. The 911 operator tried several times to get Gilbert's location. At one point, she mentioned she was near Jones Beach. Gilbert never said she was at Oak Beach. It is hard to respond to a call when the person calling doesn't know where he or she is...

FACT #2: SG could not help the police respond to her quickly because she misled them in the wrong direction and obviously didn't know that she was at Oak Beach.

In the house at Oak Beach, Gilbert was not about to be murdered. Her demeanor on the tape was calm. You can hear male voices on the tape, and they are calm. At no time during this call was she desperate. From what I heard on the call, Gilbert was not speaking as if she were in danger...

FACT #3: SG and the men in the house all sounded calm as if SG wasn't in any danger (and at no time during the entire phone call does SG ever sound desperate).

Despite this, she decided to run from the house and her driver, whom she relied on to take her back to New Jersey... As we all know by now, Gilbert ran to another house seeking assistance. She was let into the house. When the gentleman in the house said he was going to call the police, she ran into the reeds across the street. I also interviewed this gentleman. Finally, she knocked on another door, but again ran away before the woman who lived there could find out what was going on....

FACT #4: Despite sounding calm and never sounding desperate, SG irrationally ran from house to house from people who were trying to help her and from her driver who was her only means of transportation back to New Jersey.

During the investigation, I interviewed an individual who drove Gilbert to her "dates" in the past. He said she would leave houses and apartments in the same fashion as she did in Oak Beach. He described her as being a paranoid person and at times acting irrationally.

FACT #5: A man who was SG's previous driver confirmed that SG has a history of running from houses & apartments in the same fashion as well as being a paranoid person who at times acted irrationally.

Suffolk County has not turned down offers of help from the FBI. The FBI has provided a psychological profile of the offender and coordinated the use of a Blackhawk military helicopter to conduct an aerial search of the Ocean Parkway area, using classified equipment. In addition to the FBI, 12 other law enforcement agencies have assisted the homicide squad...

FACT #6: The FBI and TWELVE other law enforcement agencies have been assisting the SCPD's homicide department with this investigation.

Detectives have traveled to the hometowns of each victim many times to meet with the families, and to several states as part of the investigation. For most of 2011, the detectives assigned have set aside their personal lives, working long hours for weeks at a time. For Ray to insinuate that the homicide squad has given this case less than its full attention because of the victim's lifestyle is grossly inaccurate...

FACT #7: The homicide squad has given this case its full attention.

 

[mysterymom7]

Just for one moment, let's put aside the evil government cover-up/conspiracy theories and treat this detective's statements as being nothing other than pure facts.

When you look at it without immediately discrediting and bashing the homicide squad, this is what you get;



FACT #1: The family attorney does not have his facts straight.



FACT #2: SG could not help the police respond to her quickly because she misled them in the wrong direction and obviously didn't know that she was at Oak Beach.



FACT #3: SG and the men in the house all sounded calm as if SG wasn't in any danger (and at no time during the entire phone call does SG ever sound desperate).



FACT #4: Despite sounding calm and never sounding desperate, SG irrationally ran from house to house from people who were trying to help her and from her driver who was her only means of transportation back to New Jersey.



FACT #5: A man who was SG's previous driver confirmed that SG has a history of running from houses & apartments in the same fashion as well as being a paranoid person who at times acted irrationally.



FACT #6: The FBI and TWELVE other law enforcement agencies have been assisting the SCPD's homicide department with this investigation.



FACT #7: The homicide squad has given this case its full attention.

I responded to your post on the other thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8433040&postcount=91"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8433040&postcount=91[/ame]

I like this approach, and I would like to show what I see are the "grey areas".

It is quite obvious that Ray has not listened to Gilbert's 911 call nor spoken to any investigators assigned to the case. His claims are misleading and lack credibility...

Grey area: Assuming Mr. Ray never heard the 911 call or spoken to any investigators assigned to the case (neither have I), that would mean Mr. Ray's claims are based only off SCPD statements and common sense.

I listened to Gilbert's 22-minute 911 call. The 911 operator tried several times to get Gilbert's location. At one point, she mentioned she was near Jones Beach. Gilbert never said she was at Oak Beach. It is hard to respond to a call when the person calling doesn't know where he or she is...

Grey area: Regardless of whether or not SG knew her location, there were TWO calls to 911 within several minutes of each other from callers who lived in the community. I will repeat, I assume those 2 callers knew their home address to give to the 911 operator. That would mean that an officer would know the EXACT location had they responded to GC and BB's calls.

In the house at Oak Beach, Gilbert was not about to be murdered. Her demeanor on the tape was calm. You can hear male voices on the tape, and they are calm. At no time during this call was she desperate. From what I heard on the call, Gilbert was not speaking as if she were in danger...

Grey area: In the house at Oak Beach, she was not about to be murdered... but she was found dead yards from that house. Common sense says, a 22 min. call to 911 is more than just a calm chat. Find me a 22 min 911 call that is contrary to that common sense.

Despite this, she decided to run from the house and her driver, whom she relied on to take her back to New Jersey... As we all know by now, Gilbert ran to another house seeking assistance. She was let into the house. When the gentleman in the house said he was going to call the police, she ran into the reeds across the street. I also interviewed this gentleman. Finally, she knocked on another door, but again ran away before the woman who lived there could find out what was going on....

Grey area: How many times before this event did she not only run from a house, but knocked on neighbors' doors?

During the investigation, I interviewed an individual who drove Gilbert to her "dates" in the past. He said she would leave houses and apartments in the same fashion as she did in Oak Beach. He described her as being a paranoid person and at times acting irrationally.

Grey area: How many times before this event did she act paranoid and irrational and end up dead?

Suffolk County has not turned down offers of help from the FBI. The FBI has provided a psychological profile of the offender and coordinated the use of a Blackhawk military helicopter to conduct an aerial search of the Ocean Parkway area, using classified equipment. In addition to the FBI, 12 other law enforcement agencies have assisted the homicide squad...

Grey area: No, they haven't turned down the offer, but they also haven't EMPLOYED the information given from the FBI.

12 other law enforcement agencies? So they're now calling different "units" of the SCPD as separate entities? (ie. identification section, computer crimes section, criminal intelligence sections, and the crime lab)

Detectives have traveled to the hometowns of each victim many times to meet with the families, and to several states as part of the investigation. For most of 2011, the detectives assigned have set aside their personal lives, working long hours for weeks at a time. For Ray to insinuate that the homicide squad has given this case less than its full attention because of the victim's lifestyle is grossly inaccurate...

Grey area: "For MOST of 2011" Mr. Ray's client is SG's mother. SG "disappear-dead" May 1, 2010. There's no need to insinuate anything. Whether or not it was because of the "victim's lifestyle" is still up for debate.

 

[Seaslug44]

I responded to your post on the other thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8433040&postcount=91

I like this approach, and I would like to show what I see are the "grey areas".



Grey area: Assuming Mr. Ray never heard the 911 call or spoken to any investigators assigned to the case (neither have I), that would mean Mr. Ray's claims are based only off SCPD statements and common sense.

I am sure many of us would be interested in hearing his response.



Grey area: Regardless of whether or not SG knew her location, there were TWO calls to 911 within several minutes of each other from callers who lived in the community. I will repeat, I assume those 2 callers knew their home address to give to the 911 operator. That would mean that an officer would know the EXACT location had they responded to GC and BB's calls.

I'm sure that many of us would be incredibly interested in reading his responses to your claims.

Grey area: In the house at Oak Beach, she was not about to be murdered... but she was found dead yards from that house. Common sense says, a 22 min. call to 911 is more than just a calm chat. Find me a 22 min 911 call that is contrary to that common sense.



Grey area: How many times before this event did she not only run from a house, but knocked on neighbors' doors?



Grey area: How many times before this event did she act paranoid and irrational and end up dead?



Grey area: No, they haven't turned down the offer, but they also haven't EMPLOYED the information given from the FBI.

12 other law enforcement agencies? So they're now calling different "units" of the SCPD as separate entities? (ie. identification section, computer crimes section, criminal intelligence sections, and the crime lab)



Grey area: "For MOST of 2011" Mr. Ray's client is SG's mother. SG "disappear-dead" May 1, 2010. There's no need to insinuate anything. Whether or not it was because of the "victim's lifestyle" is still up for debate.

I wish there was a way we could invite the retired detective to come here and discuss this with us (because what you are claiming is 'grey area', he is very firmly stating is 'fact'.

 

[Seaslug44]

I have this question to ask of those who think there is some sort of police or government conspiracy to cover up a homicide and make it look like an accident;

Why did Suffolk County notify SG's family about her 911 call?

 

[Justiceforever]

I have this question to ask of those who think there is some sort of police or government conspiracy to cover up a homicide and make it look like an accident;

Why did Suffolk County notify SG's family about her 911 call?

Did they? When exactly? Was it in the days following the call? Was it after the GB4 were found? I would like to know when.

 

[Seaslug44]

Did they? When exactly? Was it in the days following the call? Was it after the GB4 were found? I would like to know when.

They sent detectives to Ellenville to conduct interviews and investigate.

If there was a cover up, why not simply delete the recording and pretend that it never existed?

I can give you one answer we've heard before- both MP and JB have made it known that SG's call contains proof that they wete trying to help SG as she had irrational thoughts.

They claim that her 911 recording CLEARS them.

It's as if her 911 recording contains proof that there IS NOT a conspiracy.

 

[deedee21]

According to JR a scuffle can be heard on the tape that lasted several minutes. Did this occur inside or out side the house?

 

[mysterymom7]

They sent detectives to Ellenville to conduct interviews and investigate.

If there was a cover up, why not simply delete the recording and pretend that it never existed?

I can give you one answer we've heard before- both MP and JB have made it known that SG's call contains proof that they wete trying to help SG as she had irrational thoughts.

They claim that her 911 recording CLEARS them.

It's as if her 911 recording contains proof that there IS NOT a conspiracy.

If I were ever accused of committing a crime I knew I hadn't committed and the only proof of my innocence was a 22 minute 911 call. I would do anything I could to have that played publicly so I could clear my name in the court of public opinion.

 

[mysterymom7]

They sent detectives to Ellenville to conduct interviews and investigate.

If there was a cover up, why not simply delete the recording and pretend that it never existed?

I can give you one answer we've heard before- both MP and JB have made it known that SG's call contains proof that they wete trying to help SG as she had irrational thoughts.

They claim that her 911 recording CLEARS them.

It's as if her 911 recording contains proof that there IS NOT a conspiracy.

The whole point of the argument is... if it contains nothing important, why hold it from the public? Why hold it from her mother?

 

[WI1987]

According to JR a scuffle can be heard on the tape that lasted several minutes. Did this occur inside or out side the house?

Interesting, this is the first I have heard of a scuffle occurring in JB's home that night. Do you have more details?

I always had the impression that Shannan was hysterical but everyone else was calm, no yelling, no fighting, etc.

 

[hawkshaw]

SeaSlug - I have a question for you: How did she die? Another ?: She was found near the bodies of four other prostitutes. Is it more than a coincidence?

I also recall the PC say the other 6 bodies were prostitues. Their bodies haven't yet been identified. How does anyone know what they did for a llving? Maybe they had business cards on them advertising their line of work.

 

[hawkshaw]

Interesting, this is the first I have heard of a scuffle occurring in JB's home that night. Do you have more details?

I always had the impression that Shannan was hysterical but everyone else was calm, no yelling, no fighting, etc.

They had a poetry reading session. Brewer said she wasn't there for sex. Just mmaybe she was a poet trying to get into another line of work.

 

[deedee21]

To WI1987 Watch the program about LI serial killer. Its Called Bodies on the Beach-Search for a Serial Killer. Its on youtube. On the program attorney JR states that he spoke to the ME. SG mom and JR appear together on this program and this is information they received from MEs office. The ME also said cause of death is inconclisive and was also told that she was not calm when she made the 911 call. Read my other post I wrote about the program.

 

[Seaslug44]

The whole point of the argument is... if it contains nothing important, why hold it from the public? Why hold it from her mother?

That line of questioning suggests that there must be some sort of police conspiracy behind her specific 911 recording not being released. Yet we have pretty much established (especially you with your research) that New York State has a County Law on the books that does not allow Counties to release ANY Enhanced 911 System recordings (regardless of the circumstances).

Nobody is deliberately withholding SG's 911 recordings.

Releasing them to the public or her mom simply is not an option.

 

[deedee21]

On one of the programs SG driver stated that the client came up behind her and wrapped his arms around her. The driver presumes it was to get her out of the house. I think thats when she freaked out. Anyway out of this whole thing the part that bothers me is SG mom said she received a call from CH and he said I have S. Shes fine. I run a house for wayward girls. At first he denied making the call. Former PC said his information shows the call was made.

 

[Seaslug44]

On one of the programs SG driver stated that the client came up behind her and wrapped his arms around her. The driver presumes it was to get her out of the house. I think thats when she freaked out. Anyway out of this whole thing the part that bothers me is SG mom said she received a call from CH and he said I have S. Shes fine. I run a house for wayward girls. At first he denied making the call. Former PC said his information shows the call was made.

Do you have a link to prove that?

The last we checked, even SG's mom could not produce phone records to prove that she received that "day after" phone call.

 

[hawkshaw]

One MIGHT be able to make a case for keeping the 911 calls secret if harm could come to someone by releasing them. In this case the caller is DEAD. If the police have no real clues to pursue from that call then why not publicize it and hope someone out there can make sense of it. I guarantee you someone out there, other than the killer(s) knows something about this case and thinks they don't know anything. The release of the tapes can help clear it up.

 

[deedee21]

Seaslug 44 Give me a few minutes and I will get that to you.

 

[Justiceforever]

One MIGHT be able to make a case for keeping the 911 calls secret if harm could come to someone by releasing them. In this case the caller is DEAD. If the police have no real clues to pursue from that call then why not publicize it and hope someone out there can make sense of it. I guarantee you someone out there, other than the killer(s) knows something about this case and thinks they don't know anything. The release of the tapes can help clear it up.

I agree 100%

 

[deedee21]

TO Seaslug It took awhile to find it. First a quick correction. MP stated that the client grabbed her from behind. Thats when she freaked out. Then she called 911. Its sounds like he just wanted her out of the house. Anyway you can see MP side of story about what happenened in Clients house on a documentary called Americas Serial Killer True Story . You have part 1through part 5 on youtube. MP makes that statement in part 1.