The Actual Facts... What hard evidence is there against Terri?

[Wings Of Light]

I was thinking it would be helpful to sift through all of the information and really see what it boils down to.

What do they actually have on Terri?

Known:

• Landscaper in Murder for hire plot, but the sting they setup failed to produce any evidence
• MC Sexting / Restraining Order Violation
• 90 minutes unaccounted for, but alibi looks like it checks out.
• Prepaid cellphones bought by friends

Unconfirmed:

• Cell Phone Location Records
• Bank Records
• Person waiting in/near truck

I am hoping people can help add to the list.

Factually, it really doesn't seem like from what I've read that they have much of anything on Terri.

I do think she was involved, but have investigators shown that she has been dishonest on any single point?

 

[cluciano63]

I don't know that any of the above even points to Terri as evidence in Kyron's case. Of course cases have been built strictly on circumstantial evidence but usually a jury wants some physical evidence or something solid that can't be construed in more than one way. A possible sighting of a person near or even in her truck, asking for witnesses months after the event, that sort of thing does not impress most juries. I get the feeling that in Oregon, people are fond of their rights and won't take well to anything that seems to be "going after" a person, if there are not hard facts to back it up.

Can anyone think of one hard piece of actual evidence in this case that I am not seeing?

 

[Jules71]

I guess these would go in the unconfirmed category:
Polygraph tests failed
Teacher says Terri was taking Kyron to the dr.

I would probably put the MFH under unconfirmed. Was it proven, or was it some kind of LE tactic, or what?

Also about the person in/near truck - there is confusion about that. It seems like LE has stated they have witnesses who saw someone in/near the truck, but I know some people are questioning it. Do they or don't they have witnesses who saw someone in or near the Horman truck while Terri was inside the school?

 

[JustyThoughts]

Thanks Wings,
I agree, when listed as you have in your post, there seems to be very weak (if any) direct evidence that TH caused Kyron to go missing. Surely LE must have more than is being released publicly.
Even the items listed - don't seems to show "direct" solid evidence. Could be MFH, sexting, and cells "seem" to make an argument for involvement; but at the same time these behaviors and actions might not be directly related to guilt re: Kyron.
My heart hurts for Kyron and my head hurts trying to figure out what is truth or not in this case.
Maybe when LE opens up and releases the evidence they have.... things will fall into place.

 

[Wings Of Light]

I don't know that any of the above even points to Terri as evidence in Kyron's case.

Can anyone think of one hard piece of actual evidence in this case that I am not seeing?

I agree... even the stuff that I've listed is not enough to really even begin to implicate her. I keep thinking I'm missing something, but I haven't come up with anything.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I find it ironic that this is the shortest thread on the forum.

Why?

Because when just the facts are listed, there is precious little that's known.

The topics that involve speculation and rumor seems to engage people much more.

Ironic.

 

[Chili Fries]

The cell phone pings and bank records require context. If they directly contradict Terri's story then they gain importance. Other things could be like that too, for example if Terri and DeDe said they didn't contact each other that day yet LE has evidence of a flurry of communication between the two...that would be very suspicious. Really tough to say how much most of this stuff implicates Terri without knowing what exactly LE has learned.

 

[cluciano63]

If LE had facts and evidence I think there would be an arrest by now; the GJ would have seen it and LE would not be (desperately, to me) crying out for more witnesses to the phantom in the parking lot. So I think that facts are hard to come by in this case, even for LE. But as I said, lots of cases are tried on circumstantial evidence, although they usually at least know what to charge the person with.

 

[wildmala]

Good thread. Wasn't there a "Just the facts ma'am" thread related to what was known about Kyron that day as well...I think that one was kind of short, too. Just seems that all the 'evidence' that comes out is via a third party (media, etc) so very difficult to chalk things up to absolute FACT.

The only for SURE one out there is FACT: Kyron is missing.

I agree that some things that are 'fuzzy' may actually more clearly be seen as 'fact' when combined with other details. It's all a big puzzle.

 

[Herding Cats]

I was thinking it would be helpful to sift through all of the information and really see what it boils down to.

(my comments in italics, and what I think a decent defense attorney will say...not even a good defense attorney, just a decent one.)


[*]Landscaper in Murder for hire plot, but the sting they setup failed to produce any evidence

~the LS didn't go to LE at the time it occurred, but waited until there was something else. There is no proof of anything; simply a he-said, she-said sort of thing, which is heresay unless it happens in a courtroom; and even then, w/o evidence supporting it, there will not be a conviction.


[*]MC Sexting / Restraining Order Violation

Sexting isn't a crime. It may be hard for folks to imagine themselves doing, and it may leave a bad taste in someone's mouth about TH, but it's not a crime. What two people do "in the privacy" of their own homes, consentually, does not necessarily constitute a crime, even if we wouldn't do it ourselves.

There is no evidence that TH didn't just leave the TRO out, and MC photographed it without her permission. And MC showing it to other folks is his crime, if indeed there is a crime at all - he was not rejoined by the court to not show it to people; only TH, KH were.

[*]90 minutes unaccounted for, but alibi looks like it checks out.

Reciepts and video show that TH was where she said she was when she said she was. There is no reason to think that she was busy disappearing Kyron if everything else was 'normal' and is backed up.

Besides, I'll bet a nickle that there are great hours of time in our day where no one can actually prove where they were or what they're doing. That does not constitute a crime...and since she can and has backed up what she can, and it establishes truth there, there is no reason to believe otherwise.


[*]Prepaid cellphones bought by friends

Buying a prepaid cellphone, in cash, using a fake name, is not a crime. Considering the totality of the circumstances, it's also a reasonable thing to do, if one wanted to maintain what little privacy they had left. To be able to carry out conversations unmonitored with friends, family, and perhaps legal counsel, this might've been the only way to ensure that. And it's not a crime.


I didn't go into the unconfirmed stuff, simply because it's unconfirmed.

There is no way a jury could convict her on this evidence, even if it went to court. I've sat on criminal juries, and I've seen how they work. It's not a pretty sight (a lot like making sausage), but I can't imagine even the most contentious jury being able to, in good conscious, find her guilty with the scant evidence they have, and with better evidence pointing to a stranger abduction.

This stuff does not come even close to reaching reasonable suspicion, let alone reasonable doubt...

I honestly think they've been chasing the wrong person, and a stranger bad guy has struck, and succeeded, and is now plotting to take the next child. That is my greatest fear...that LE has a cold case, after they realize TH just didn't do it.

Where's Kyron, and how do we protect the next child?????

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[BeanE]

Can anyone think of one hard piece of actual evidence in this case that I am not seeing?

No, there's nothing, C.

The MFH and 90 minutes unaccounted for are hearsay, unconfirmed. The RO violation was uncontested, so also unconfirmed.

Her friends bought prepaid phones. That's not any kind of evidence of murder, kidnapping, etc.

 

[emmcee]

I'm pretty sure that LE 'holds back' a piece or two of information in an investigation. I'm guessing when they ask for additional witnesses they're trying to see if someone out there can match their 'held back' info. JMHO

 

[BeanE]

I'm pretty sure that LE 'holds back' a piece or two of information in an investigation. I'm guessing when they ask for additional witnesses they're trying to see if someone out there can match their 'held back' info. JMHO

LE having evidence we don't know about is unconfirmed.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I'm pretty sure it was TH's dad who talked about her failing the two lie detector tests and also said that he expected she would be arrested. It's quite possible that he knows a lot more than we do.

 

[BeanE]

I'm pretty sure it was TH's dad who talked about her failing the two lie detector tests and also said that he expected she would be arrested. It's quite possible that he knows a lot more than we do.

He said she failed one LDT.

 

[Mysti88c]

When I think of "hard evidence', I think of things that would hold up in court. That would not include any lie detector test. I am also not sure if a judge would allow the state to call the landscaper to testify to the MFH accustation, and the sexting IMO could be deemed irrelevant to any kidnapping charges.

 

[carbuff]

And even if she did try to hire somebody to off her husband (which there's no confirmed evidence for) that's not evidence that she did anything to Kyron.

The prepaid cell phones might well be just so they could talk without having the media down their throats.

 

[Wings Of Light]

When I think of "hard evidence', I think of things that would hold up in court. That would not include any lie detector test. I am also not sure if a judge would allow the state to call the landscaper to testify to the MFH accustation, and the sexting IMO could be deemed irrelevant to any kidnapping charges.

Agreed. Lie detectors don't mean anything. Not admissible in court, and for good reason.

If we look at it the other way, what evidence is there to suggest that she is innocent, it's a bit surprising.

 

[AbbieNormal]

(my comments in italics, and what I think a decent defense attorney will say...not even a good defense attorney, just a decent one.)


[*]Landscaper in Murder for hire plot, but the sting they setup failed to produce any evidence

~the LS didn't go to LE at the time it occurred, but waited until there was something else. There is no proof of anything; simply a he-said, she-said sort of thing, which is heresay unless it happens in a courtroom; and even then, w/o evidence supporting it, there will not be a conviction.


[*]MC Sexting / Restraining Order Violation

Sexting isn't a crime. It may be hard for folks to imagine themselves doing, and it may leave a bad taste in someone's mouth about TH, but it's not a crime. What two people do "in the privacy" of their own homes, consentually, does not necessarily constitute a crime, even if we wouldn't do it ourselves.

There is no evidence that TH didn't just leave the TRO out, and MC photographed it without her permission. And MC showing it to other folks is his crime, if indeed there is a crime at all - he was not rejoined by the court to not show it to people; only TH, KH were.

[*]90 minutes unaccounted for, but alibi looks like it checks out.

Reciepts and video show that TH was where she said she was when she said she was. There is no reason to think that she was busy disappearing Kyron if everything else was 'normal' and is backed up.

Besides, I'll bet a nickle that there are great hours of time in our day where no one can actually prove where they were or what they're doing. That does not constitute a crime...and since she can and has backed up what she can, and it establishes truth there, there is no reason to believe otherwise.


[*]Prepaid cellphones bought by friends

Buying a prepaid cellphone, in cash, using a fake name, is not a crime. Considering the totality of the circumstances, it's also a reasonable thing to do, if one wanted to maintain what little privacy they had left. To be able to carry out conversations unmonitored with friends, family, and perhaps legal counsel, this might've been the only way to ensure that. And it's not a crime.


I didn't go into the unconfirmed stuff, simply because it's unconfirmed.

There is no way a jury could convict her on this evidence, even if it went to court. I've sat on criminal juries, and I've seen how they work. It's not a pretty sight (a lot like making sausage), but I can't imagine even the most contentious jury being able to, in good conscious, find her guilty with the scant evidence they have, and with better evidence pointing to a stranger abduction.

This stuff does not come even close to reaching reasonable suspicion, let alone reasonable doubt...

I honestly think they've been chasing the wrong person, and a stranger bad guy has struck, and succeeded, and is now plotting to take the next child. That is my greatest fear...that LE has a cold case, after they realize TH just didn't do it.

Where's Kyron, and how do we protect the next child?????

Best-
Herding Cats

Many of the things you have listed are not illegal but when taken in their entirety, really puts Terri in a bad light. And now possibly DeDe too since shes unaccounted for for 90 minutes at a very critical time that morning.

Sexting is not illegal but speaks to Terris character very strongly IMO when shes doing it days after Kyron goes missing and with an old friend of her husbands, no less. Shows me: No morals whatsoever. Or common sense.

Multiple throwaway cell phones- sneaky, and makes me wonder why why why?

Unaccounted for 90 minutes or so of Terris morning- she can't have a block of amnesia can she? She knew where she went, where she was. The story of driving baby K around due to an earache is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

MFH Plot- speaks for itself. She wanted her husband DEAD. She just wasn't very smart about who she asked. Had she asked the right shady character, it might have been a done deal. Then what? She'd get social security checks for both Kyron and Baby K till they turned 18, due to the death of their father.. Get J back and she has that child support too. Nice little nest egg for Terri, and no Kaine anymore.

"Forgetting" where she shopped that day. Doesn't even need addressing since its so senseless.

Last one to see Kyron. Brought the truck yet did not stay for science fair so she could bring the project home, which was the reason she borrowed the truck. Suspicious. What was her hurry that morning to get out of the school?

Attempted to create confusion with Kyrons teacher by yelling across a crowded gym room (allegedly) he had a drs appointment. Later blames the teacher for that as "she was new, it was her first year teaching" and also "she was hard of hearing", because the dr. appt. was the 11th, not that day. However, her trick caused the teacher to not be alarmed at Kyrons absence that day, thinking he was "at the doctor" like Terri had yelled to her across a crowded room.

So now, WHERE IS KYRON??

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I respectfully think the title of this thread could be:

What hard evidence is their against Terri regarding Kyron's disappearance?

Because really, who cares about the rest of the shenanigans. even if a mfh is true it does not have anything to do with hard evidence against terri re: her actions the morning of june 4th. and the rest their personal crap is frankly none of my business - but it does pass the time.