The Actual Facts... What hard evidence is there against Terri?

[BeanE]

Thanks, Bean, for your explanation.

But if I was on a jury, the fact that everyone (apparently everyone, as far as we know), at the school thought he had a doctor appointment that morning, would be significant to me.

We can assume then that if he had been at school, everyone would have been surprised.

Maybe it's not the kind of confirmed evidence this thread is supposed to be about...but isn't a remarkable coincidence that this kind of out-of-the-ordinary misunderstanding just so happened on the morning when little Kyron disappeared into thin air???

Well, if I were on the jury, it would not be enough for me to know that some people (not everybody - there were 300 students and who knows how many parents and school staff) thought there was a doctor's appt that day.

It would be critically important to me to know what led those people to believe there was a doctor's appt on that day. I would need to know who told the people who thought that. Was it the teacher who told each of them?

Then I would need to know how the teacher came to that understanding. Did Terri tell her? Did Terri give her the required signed note? Can she produce the note? Did Terri sign Kyron out at the office as required? Can the office produce that? Did Terri give the teacher paperwork? Can anyone produce it? Is there an appointment date on it? What is the date? What did Terri say to the teacher? Was anyone else there? Did they hear what she said?

No, simply some people thinking there was an appt would definitely not be enough for me. It is how they came to that understanding that would be *very* significant to me.

 

[cluciano63]

I'd like to know if those people who say they knew about a doctor's appointment woke up knowing that, or once Kyron was missing, or not in class, then they knew it? If the latter, then clearly it was not hard and firm even in their own minds. It seems that his not being there made them "remember" this talk about an appointment?

 

[mmmagique]

We were told she was not asked questions. One can not answer questions that one is never asked.

But then...why call her in at all? Just to look at her? This is confusing to me.

 

[Jules71]

Re: the doctors appt, here is what Terri wrote in her email about the dr. appt 'mis-understanding':

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up?

So if I understand this, Terri's defense to the school/teacher thinking Kyron was at a dr. appt. is that the teacher misunderstood her when she said she was 'going to look at other exhibits'. Her defense was not that the teacher misunderstood his appt being for the next Fri. That came from a comment on a news article.

I can't remember exactly what my point was... I have a headache. Sorry.:waitasec:

 

[Jules71]

But then...why call her in at all? Just to look at her? This is confusing to me.

I don't get it either. Was it to make her nervous and have her ask for immunity first, thus implying she knew something? I have no idea how this works.

 

[carbuff]

But then...why call her in at all? Just to look at her? This is confusing to me.

They might have asked her for her statement and then not asked her any further questions about it.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't get it either. Was it to make her nervous and have her ask for immunity first, thus implying she knew something? I have no idea how this works.

I think it is legal word games. They may not have asked any questions because she stated she was not going to answer them. Clearly she was there for a reason. I'm going to the "ask a lawyer" thread...

 

[mmmagique]

I think it is legal word games. They may not have asked any questions because she stated she was not going to answer them. Clearly she was there for a reason. I'm going to the "ask a lawyer" thread...

I'm getting ready to go somewhere as well...*insane* :crazy::banghead::crazy:

 

[cluciano63]

I'm getting ready to go somewhere as well...*insane* :crazy::banghead::crazy:

I HATE this expression but..."been there, done that." :sick:

 

[carbuff]

Thanks, Bean, for your explanation.

But if I was on a jury, the fact that everyone (apparently everyone, as far as we know), at the school thought he had a doctor appointment that morning, would be significant to me.

We can assume then that if he had been at school, everyone would have been surprised.

Maybe it's not the kind of confirmed evidence this thread is supposed to be about...but isn't a remarkable coincidence that this kind of out-of-the-ordinary misunderstanding just so happened on the morning when little Kyron disappeared into thin air???

I'd have to seriously consider the possibility that the school is trying to cover their rear ends so they aren't held liable for allowing a child to disappear from their care. I don't have any reason to think that's the case at this point, but I can't rule it out, either.

 

[BeanE]

But then...why call her in at all? Just to look at her? This is confusing to me.

She didn't retain her attorney until Friday. She had to appear on Monday. The courts, DA's office, etc, are closed on the weekend. There was little time for her to tell her attorney what had gone, and no time for her attorney to talk with LE and the DA. In other words, it was just a practical matter. No time for those conversations, yet, because of the subpoena, she *had* to appear. They all (really just her attorney and LE and the DA) just did the best they could with the lack of time.

There's some info in the Verified Lawyers Questions thread about this. I probably haven't expressed it clearly or completely accurately because IANAL.

 

[carbuff]

She didn't retain her attorney until Friday. She had to appear on Monday. The courts, DA's office, etc, are closed on the weekend. There was little time for her to tell her attorney what had gone, and no time for her attorney to talk with LE and the DA. In other words, it was just a practical matter. No time for those conversations, yet, because of the subpoena, she *had* to appear. They all (really just her attorney and LE and the DA) just did the best they could with the lack of time.

There's some info in the Verified Lawyers Questions thread about this. I probably haven't expressed it clearly or completely accurately because IANAL.

Ah, thanks, yes, that makes sense.

 

[BeanE]

Re: the doctors appt, here is what Terri wrote in her email about the dr. appt 'mis-understanding':

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up?

So if I understand this, Terri's defense to the school/teacher thinking Kyron was at a dr. appt. is that the teacher misunderstood her when she said she was 'going to look at other exhibits'. Her defense was not that the teacher misunderstood his appt being for the next Fri. That came from a comment on a news article.

I can't remember exactly what my point was... I have a headache. Sorry.:waitasec:

BBM. No, it didn't come from a comment on a news article, it came directly from a MSM news article.

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

 

[Jules71]

BBM. No, it didn't come from a comment on a news article, it came directly from a MSM news article.

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

I forgot about that - thanks. But it was also a comment on a news article back in the beginning about telling the teacher across the noisy gym about a dr. appt for the next Fri, not that Fri. So it was both MSM and comment. So in light of this, what does it mean that Terri says the teacher confused her going to look at other exhibits with taking Kyron with Kitty to a dr. appt? Why did she say that in her email and not that the teacher got confused about what day his appt was for?

 

[LisaB]

Facts-

Terri gave up custody and visitation of BabyK.
Her best friend will not testify before a Grand Jury without immunity.
Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

Giving up custody of her daughter has nothing to do with whether she did something to Kyron. If she had "disappeared" Baby K, it might, but nothing like that happened. Like Desiree after her medical problems, Terri found herself with no job, no money, and forced to move in with her parents. Like Desiree, IMO, she decided it would be in Baby K's best interests to be with her Dad. Considering the media frenzy around her, she may have been wise not to put the baby into such a chaotic, possibly frightening, or even dangerous situation.

Can't really blame TERRI for DEEDEE wanting immunity. Speaks more to DDS' guilt than TH's.

Terri has never given a statement to the media to the effect that she was not involved in Kyron's disappearance, but IMHOO, I would imagine she has denied involvement to family, friends, and LE.

Last, EVEN IF SHE HAD BEEN TRIED AND CONVICTED OF THE MFH, it would neither be indicative of her having been involved in Kyron's disappearance, NOR would it be admissable as evidence at trial (although I believe it could be brought up at sentencing).

 

[LisaB]

Did you miss the story of Dede leaving the courthouse where the grand jury was meeting? And we were told that she did not answer questions?

I feel that this thread has been started just to argue, not to actually collect facts.

I recall hearing that she was not ASKED any questions, but told they might bring her back for that purpose at another time.

 

[LisaB]

All I can think of in terms of known circumstantial evidence would be:

• false statement to teacher about a doctor appointment
• witnesses sighting truck in two different locations at the school
• inability to verify whereabouts for 90 minute period that morning

I don't care how easy it is for a DA to get an indictment, if that's all he's got, he won't even seek one.

The teacher is the only one in the whole crowded auditorium who heard what Terri said about the appointment? And she was clear across the room? I'd say she isn't the only one hard of hearing then. Has anyone else verified exactly what Terri called out to the teacher?

What witnesses? LE is apparently trying to find witnesses, but do we know they have anyone who can prove that it was the same white truck seen in two locations? Lots of white trucks in Portland.

If she had said she took Baby K home and the two of them napped for 90 minutes, would she be able to provide witnesses to verify that?

This is a lot like nailing Jello to a tree.

 

[LisaB]

I know this has been discussed at length in the GJ thread, but... apparently they do have more evidence than we know, or there wouldn't be a grand jury sitting right now to hear this case. The DA is seeking an indictment... for what charge(s) we don't know. But they aren't hearing testimony from dozens of people just to be passing the time, they have a purpose.
I don't know of any respectable DA who would present a case to the GJ based on what WE know right now... so there has to be more than that.

GJ seems like away to get statements from lots of people on the record before memories fade. At this point, anyway.

 

[LisaB]

Re: the doctors appt, here is what Terri wrote in her email about the dr. appt 'mis-understanding':

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up?

So if I understand this, Terri's defense to the school/teacher thinking Kyron was at a dr. appt. is that the teacher misunderstood her when she said she was 'going to look at other exhibits'. Her defense was not that the teacher misunderstood his appt being for the next Fri. That came from a comment on a news article.

I can't remember exactly what my point was... I have a headache. Sorry.:waitasec:

But
- Baby K did not have a doctor's appointment
- "Everyone" thought KYRON had an appointment
- It makes no sense to take Kyron out of school to visit the pediatrician with his baby sister. It would mean him missing a day of school for no good reason and make Terri's job tougher as she had to occupy TWO kids while waiting in the doctor's office.

Terri's statement makes no sense if Baby K DID have an appt. But since she did not (apparently), it really does sound like a "how do you mess that up" kind of thing. Sounds like the teacher never objected to her taking Kyron out of school on the day of the Talent Show and IB Expo for what most schools would consider an unexcused absence. WHY wouldn't the teacher say something if that was REALLY what she thought Terri said? Terri can't really testify to what the teacher "understood" or "misunderstood", only what she THINKS the teacher THOUGHT she said. ?????

Unless this meshes with what the teacher says, It's neither incriminatory nor exculpatory. If it matches, it just seems... weird.

 

[LisaB]

I'll shut up now.