The case for murder, #2

[kittychi]

Where does the last name, Flores, come from? TIA

What was the supposed full name DS assumed while allegedly hiding her relationship with J from wife #1? TIA

IIRC, there was a Flores who worked for Medicis, maybe JS secretary or assistant of some sort. I will see if I can dig up a source for this.

 

[Carioca]

IIRC, there was a Flores who worked for Medicis, maybe JS secretary or assistant of some sort. I will see if I can dig up a source for this.

Valerie Flores - it was said she worked at Medicis but I cannot supply a link. She sent a text message to Rebecca at 5:15PM on July 13 after Rebecca's death..

 

[Carioca]

San Diego Medical Examiner's Office organizational chart

Chain in command: Rebecca Zahau investigation

Glenn Wagner, Chief ME -->
Dana Gary, ME Investigator
(of the 16 ME Investigators, D. Gary was assigned: signed off on AT 8/21/11 -->
Christina Stanley, Chief Deputy ME -->
Of the 6 Deputy MEs within the department
Jonathan Lucas, Deputy ME was assigned the case: performed autopsy 7/14/11 - Revised 9/2/11

There were FIVE homicides in all of San Diego County in the month of July of 2011 (see attached)
http://crimestats.arjis.org/

There were 242 motor vehicle fatalities in 2011
http://sdcounty.ca.gov/me/docs/SDME_Annual_Report_2011.pdf
That is an average of 0.67 per day MV fatalities.

The SDME performed 1952 autopsies in 2011, an average of 5.3 a day. (see attached chart)
http://sdcounty.ca.gov/me/docs/SDME_Annual_Report_2011.pdf

YET ALL SIX DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINERS IN SAN DIEGO WERE UNAVAILABLE FOR A FULL 12 HOURS ON JULY 13, 2011 TO ATTEND TO AN EXTREMELY HIGH PROFILE HOMICIDE IN CORONADO??
:banghead:

 

[Carioca]

Forgot to attach SD Murders July 2011 chart. Sorry :blushing:
http://crimestats.arjis.org/

 

[Carioca]

New Deputy Chief Medical Examiner Wants to Share Lessons for the Living
December 26, 2011 (5 months after Max and Rebecca's autopsies - sweet!)

Dr. Jonathan Lucas listens to the stories of his patients every day, even though they can no longer speak. These stories are told through autopsies and toxicology tests at the Medical Examiner’s Office.

Dr. Lucas is the newly-appointed Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, the second-in-command in a department of 51 people who investigate about 10,000 cases every year.

By law, the Medical Examiner handles all unnatural deaths including homicides, suicides, accidents, deaths in custody and state institutions, and also sudden and unexpected deaths of people who had not recently been under a doctor’s care.

“It is very fulfilling to be able to give people answers to something they didn’t know the answer to; even if the news is bad, you know that you’re giving people the honest answer and the truth,” he said.

http://www.countynewscenter.com/news/new-deputy-chief-medical-examiner-wants-share-lessons-living

Perhaps our esteemed Dr Lucas should have his hearing checked.

 

[Carioca]

Interview with Jonathan Lucas ME
Seeking Clue from the Dead
April 2013

Dr. Jonathan Lucas, San Diego County’s chief deputy medical examiner […] In his 12 years here, he has never been in the spotlight more than in 2011, when the mysterious deaths of Max Shacknai, 6, and Rebecca Zahau, 32, at Coronado’s Spreckels mansion captured global attention.

He conducted autopsies on both, concluding with help from sheriff’s investigators that Max’s death was an accident and Zahau’s was suicide by hanging.

Now, he is second-in-charge of the county Medical Examiner’s Office [with 6 deputy MEs in line for the promotion, he must be very good at what he does!], which investigates about 3,000 deaths each year

Q: You performed the autopsies in the Coronado mansion case, which gained global attention and remains controversial. Tell me about that experience, and how it feels to be second-guessed.

A: It was an interesting phenomena. You really end up relying on your colleagues and focus on the facts, because you know everything’s going to be second-guessed. ... While we were in the middle of the investigation, we weren’t rushing anything. But there was a lot of pressure — What are the answers? How come you guys are taking so long? What’s going on? — but we still took everything to its conclusion. ... And then once we put the facts out and put our conclusions in, then people were, ‘Oh my gosh, you guys rushed to judgment.’ ... [his comment sounds terribly familiar...]

I tell people I thought the first day that it was homicide, that was where I was in my head for Rebecca, but the investigation followed. ... It was the perfect example that you can’t do the investigation on public pressure, or pressure from families. You just have to do what you believe is the right thing.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013...ner-jonathan-lucas-san-diego/2/?#article-copy

Okey dokey.. can't let that pesty family nor public outrage get in the way.
:stormingmad:

IMO MOO etc.

 

[Serpico]

New Deputy Chief Medical Examiner Wants to Share Lessons for the Living
December 26, 2011 (5 months after Max and Rebecca's autopsies - sweet!)



http://www.countynewscenter.com/news/new-deputy-chief-medical-examiner-wants-share-lessons-living

Perhaps our esteemed Dr Lucas should have his hearing checked.

What brash Dr. Jonathan Lucas forgets to say..."first I have to find out what Sheriff Gore and his advisor Greg Thompson want me to conclude in each case and then I have to "phrase or word my statements in such a way and even re-word" findings in my Autopsy Report." For instance in the Rebecca Zahau case....that was a real tough one to support their Suicide Package:
===========================
1- I had to downplay as best I could the amount of cuts/abrasions on her back so I just said,"many" and didn't comment in the AR how she received so many abrasions on her back. The inference to the bushes below the balcony was good enough.
2-there was blood found in RZ vaginal wall, down her inner thigh and some drops on her feet.There was also blood spots found on the shower floor, bedroom carpet and the green/ white towel.I hinted RZ was menstruating at the time because if the blood wasn't menstrual....that's a serious problem for the Suicide Package so it's best we just don't test the blood.
3- the various cuts on RZ fingers....just noted them and once again I have to downplay this so the media/public doesn't think these cuts were defensive wounds after I've previously stated that there was,"NO SIGN OF A STRUGGLE."
Of course, I actually never went INSIDE the bedroom after 8:00 pm when I showed up on 7/13/11 because the bedroom hadn't been processed yet.Noteetective Patterson picked and recorded 45 items from the bedrooms (mansion and guest house) over 3 hours earlier that day.
4-I had to downplay the amount of dirt on the soles of RZ feet.
5-I had to downplay the trauma and importance of the 4 hemorrhages on her scalp by stating at the Sept.2,2011 that she may have hit her head while going over the railing and after Adam cut her down. {There has never been any "science" tests/findings before or after to confirm those flippant statements.}
6-I had to downplay the GAG in RZ mouth by simply answering a reporter's question....that happens sometimes in suicides. {I wish the reporter would've come right back to ME Lucas and said,'it happens in homicides too."}
7-I told media days after RZ death the Time of Death was between 1:00am -3:00am. By the time the Sept.2,2011 PC arrives...I had to be more specific so I told the media the Time of Death was 3:00am to fit the timeline Suicide Package of Thompson/Gore.
8-I can't comment on the significance of RZ shoulder length hair was BENEATH the rope around her neck.
9-I can't comment on the lividity pattern on her body given the facts I was told...she must've been hanging for at least 3.5 hours.
10-I want to thank Greg Thompson and Sheriff Gore for their support in my promotion to Deputy Chief Medical Examiner.....the benefits of being a "team player."

 

[bourne]

Valerie Flores - it was said she worked at Medicis but I cannot supply a link. She sent a text message to Rebecca at 5:15PM on July 13 after Rebecca's death..

Here's link:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15538406/family-releases-200-pages-of-zahau-phone-records

BBM but IDK if she's related to Dina Flores Romano Shacknai.

"News 8 investigated the listings on Zahau's cell phone logs within 48 hours of her death and found phone numbers linked to the following individuals:

- Jonah Shacknai, Rebecca's boyfriend
- Mary Zahau-Loehner, Rebecca's sister
- Adam Shacknai, Jonah's brother
- Dr. Howard Luber, Jonah's friend
- Gideon & Marcelle Shacknai, Jonah's father & step-mother
- Xena Zahau, Rebecca's sister
- Nina Romano, Jonah's ex sister-in-law
- Det. Thomas Adkins, Coronado Police detective
- Snowem Horwath, Rebecca's sister
- Caroline Niles, Coronado, Calif.
- Valerie Flores, Medicis employee
- Coronado Bay Urgent Care (treated Xena Zahau for leg injury)
- Camp Diggity Dogs, dog daycare facility"

 

[Quester]

Has it been revealed which shower in the house contained the blood and hair? If so, which one? TIA

 

[bourne]

San Diego Medical Examiner's Office organizational chart

Chain in command: Rebecca Zahau investigation

Glenn Wagner, Chief ME -->
Dana Gary, ME Investigator
(of the 16 ME Investigators, D. Gary was assigned: signed off on AT 8/21/11 -->
Christina Stanley, Chief Deputy ME -->
Of the 6 Deputy MEs within the department
Jonathan Lucas, Deputy ME was assigned the case: performed autopsy 7/14/11 - Revised 9/2/11

There were FIVE homicides in all of San Diego County in the month of July of 2011 (see attached)
http://crimestats.arjis.org/

There were 242 motor vehicle fatalities in 2011
http://sdcounty.ca.gov/me/docs/SDME_Annual_Report_2011.pdf
That is an average of 0.67 per day MV fatalities.

The SDME performed 1952 autopsies in 2011, an average of 5.3 a day. (see attached chart)
http://sdcounty.ca.gov/me/docs/SDME_Annual_Report_2011.pdf

YET ALL SIX DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINERS IN SAN DIEGO WERE UNAVAILABLE FOR A FULL 12 HOURS ON JULY 13, 2011 TO ATTEND TO AN EXTREMELY HIGH PROFILE HOMICIDE IN CORONADO??
:banghead:

B&RBM Wow! On average only 5.3 autopsies a day and on 7/13/2011 for some unfathomable reason, 6 deputy ME's plus the head ME could NOT find the time to show up at the crime scene of a "suspicious, violent death" of Rebecca Zahau until 13 plus hours later?!!!! WTH :scared:

PLUS they couldn't erect a tent for Rebecca in that extended length of time of 13 plus hours?!!! What a joke SDLE and the ME's are! :banghead:

 

[Serpico]

Has it been revealed which shower in the house contained the blood and hair? If so, which one? TIA

Ann Rule's book...Fatal Friends,Deadly Neighbors.....page 223. The blood on the shower floor and CLUMP of hair on the shower wall = master bedroom that RZ and JS shared.

 

[Quester]

Ann Rule's book...Fatal Friends,Deadly Neighbors.....page 223. The blood on the shower floor and CLUMP of hair on the shower wall = master bedroom that RZ and JS shared.

Thanks!

Wish we could see LE/ME reports on the state of the master bedroom, bathroom and patio area off master bedroom ... as well as what was taken as evidence/into custody.

I recall ARule noted RZ's folded clothes were on the master bedroom bed but ...

where was the blood on the shower floor? near the drain? near the shower door? ...

where was the clump of hair on the shower wall? At head level? waist level? ankle level? ...

Anyone have a picture they could post of the master bathroom, as it was, including the shower area? TIA

 

[Carioca]

Thanks!

Wish we could see LE/ME reports on the state of the master bedroom, bathroom and patio area off master bedroom ... as well as what was taken as evidence/into custody.

I recall ARule noted RZ's folded clothes were on the master bedroom bed but ...

where was the blood on the shower floor? near the drain? near the shower door? ...

where was the clump of hair on the shower wall? At head level? waist level? ankle level? ...

Anyone have a picture they could post of the master bathroom, as it was, including the shower area? TIA

BBM - Here is the second floor layout at the time of RZ's murder showing the route(s) from master bedroom shower to the "hanging room." The walk-in closet is next to the bathroom. Note there are doors leading to the hanging room: one at same level (in purple), the other off the first landing of the stairwell (in red).

 

[Carioca]

BBM
This is a big reason that IMO it is so wrong that they concluded "suicide" instead of saying "inconclusive."

By concluding suicide, they closed the case and all doors, so to speak. Those responsible for both the murder and the IMO cover up were/are extremely well versed in all matters legal. It was not by chance RZ's body was left out to rot for 13+ hours, that LE was allowed to enter the crime scene without booties thus stepping on evidence, that Dina nor Jonah were ever processed for DNA nor fingerprints, that Nina was excused from the LDT, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

IOW, all that we have discussed ad nauseum for the past 25 months!

 

[Leomoon80]

Here's link:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15538406/family-releases-200-pages-of-zahau-phone-records

BBM but IDK if she's related to Dina Flores Romano Shacknai.

"News 8 investigated the listings on Zahau's cell phone logs within 48 hours of her death and found phone numbers linked to the following individuals:

- Jonah Shacknai, Rebecca's boyfriend
- Mary Zahau-Loehner, Rebecca's sister
- Adam Shacknai, Jonah's brother
- Dr. Howard Luber, Jonah's friend
- Gideon & Marcelle Shacknai, Jonah's father & step-mother
- Xena Zahau, Rebecca's sister
- Nina Romano, Jonah's ex sister-in-law
- Det. Thomas Adkins, Coronado Police detective
- Snowem Horwath, Rebecca's sister
- Caroline Niles, Coronado, Calif.
- Valerie Flores, Medicis employee
- Coronado Bay Urgent Care (treated Xena Zahau for leg injury)
- Camp Diggity Dogs, dog daycare facility"

I can well understand the mourning and the concern for the little boy Max however I don't picture myself, (if the tables were turned), bugging or pestering the young woman who was babysitting that day unless I were the police investigators or the father himself. Why in the world would his brother A.S. get involved? What business it is of his to grill this grief stricken young woman anyway?? Who does he think he is?? pseudo investigation CEO? told by his brother perhaps to try & see if she can be tripped up??

Other than Rebecca's own relatives (perhaps she called them) her b.f. the boy's father, it makes no sense to me for extended family members to get involved during such a terrible time as she was also suffering.

Jonah's sister in law? Give me a break here.... :stormingmad:

 

[coastal]

I can well understand the mourning and the concern for the little boy Max however I don't picture myself, (if the tables were turned), bugging or pestering the young woman who was babysitting that day unless I were the police investigators or the father himself. Why in the world would his brother A.S. get involved? What business it is of his to grill this grief stricken young woman anyway?? Who does he think he is?? pseudo investigation CEO? told by his brother perhaps to try & see if she can be tripped up??

Other than Rebecca's own relatives (perhaps she called them) her b.f. the boy's father, it makes no sense to me for extended family members to get involved during such a terrible time as she was also suffering.

Jonah's sister in law? Give me a break here.... :stormingmad:

These few phone calls are the least of it, Leomoon. Rebecca hardly had time to take a deep breath in the hours and days after Max's accident. Most of those calls were from people needing transportation to or from the airport, or both. She took her injured sister to urgent care. She collected and delivered Nina (Dina's sister) and her son (and their luggage), Dr. Luber (who oh, by the way, has a house next door to Jonah's in Coronado), both coming and going, (Brother) Adam, and she took XZ to the airport for her flight home (early). She picked up Jonah (and Adam and Luber) from the hospital, went to dinner, and took Jonah back to the hospital. She arranged for her dog to be picked up for boarding. And this is just what I can remember! No doubt she cleaned up after her houseguests, and after Max's accident, and made sure there were clean sheets in the guesthouse (because the housekeeping staff were sent on vacation) for Adam (and whoever else may come)...

The poor woman didn't have time to suffer! She was completely overwhelmed, but she did everything anybody needed to have done, and I bet she did it with love in her heart for every one of them. Every one. :maddening:

Check out Lash's wonderful timeline (thanks, Lash!): [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191945"]Rebecca and Max Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Leomoon80]

These few phone calls are the least of it, Leomoon. Rebecca hardly had time to take a deep breath in the hours and days after Max's accident. Most of those calls were from people needing transportation to or from the airport, or both. She took her injured sister to urgent care. She collected and delivered Nina (Dina's sister) and her son (and their luggage), Dr. Luber (who oh, by the way, has a house next door to Jonah's in Coronado), both coming and going, (Brother) Adam, and she took XZ to the airport for her flight home (early). She picked up Jonah (and Adam and Luber) from the hospital, went to dinner, and took Jonah back to the hospital. She arranged for her dog to be picked up for boarding. And this is just what I can remember! No doubt she cleaned up after her houseguests, and after Max's accident, and made sure there were clean sheets in the guesthouse (because the housekeeping staff were sent on vacation) for Adam (and whoever else may come)...

The poor woman didn't have time to suffer! She was completely overwhelmed, but she did everything anybody needed to have done, and I bet she did it with love in her heart for every one of them. Every one. :maddening:

Check out Lash's wonderful timeline (thanks, Lash!): Rebecca and Max Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

That's the point. She was treated like a freakin servant then. There ARE taxis you know at the airport . These are not your average poor folks either. They wanted info I think.......or just cheap as hell, (imo)

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. Meanwhile, I sent you a PM.

 

[Leomoon80]

sorry if my mind wanders afield. But I have to NOW wonder, beyond treating her like she was a private limo for all the rich folks, what else was she doing for them? What else was she expected to do in that house of horrors.

added from the Timeline Link which posts a link for "Sometime in the Morning" I wish we KNEW the time in the morning for this even as the time may reveal much more:

Does anyone know the time this event occurred in this mansion of horrors according to the time line link?

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16083634/... censored*-found-on-coronado-mansion-computer

The San Diego County Sheriff's Department ruled Zahau's death a suicide but her family believes she was murdered.

During a seven-week investigation into Zahau's death, investigators at the San Diego Regional Computer Forensics Laboratory took a close look at at least two computers inside the mansion, said Zahau family attorney Anne Bremner.

On at least one of the computers, the forensic examination found *advertiser censored*, according to comments posted Friday evening on Bremner's Facebook page.

In a phone interview with News 8, Bremner later confirmed that more than a dozen searches of sexual content – using terms like "raped, sexy Asian girls, and bondage anime" – were accessed on a computer the day before Zahau's death.

"It's important to the investigation because there is an image from anime, and its called bond anime and it shows an Asian women bound; at least her hands are bound behind her back," said the Seattle-based attorney.

Bremner said it was not Zahau who looked at the online content and suggested the computer may have been accessed by someone using an airline account.

"Never in a million years would she have those fantasies; and never in a million years would she even look at *advertiser censored*," said Bremner told News 8. "There was somebody interested in doing her harm, with these kinds of searches."

 

[STS-135]

Valerie Flores - it was said she worked at Medicis but I cannot supply a link. She sent a text message to Rebecca at 5:15PM on July 13 after Rebecca's death..

Here you go STS. She begins at the 1:18 mark:

[URL]http://youtu.be/d4IOuN0pqCA[/URL]

IIRC, someone posted somewhere that the woman in the video is Valerie Flores; but I don't have the time to look for the link at the moment. Also IIRC, VF texted RZ from El Paso; but I also don't remember where I read it at the moment. Can someone please help the team by confirming both recollections?

IMO it might be important because if the woman who looks like DS in the video is in fact VF, it raises several questions: Was VF in Coronado late Tuesday? Was VF in fact texting RZ from El Paso on the afternoon of the 13th, and then back at the Shacknai home in Arizona on the 14th? Or was the reporter in fact at the Shacknai home on the late afternoon of the 13th per my gut feeling? And, if the later proves to be the case, why would VF be trying to find Rebecca's phone at approximately the same time she is at the Shacknai home?

 

[Bonepile]

I firmly believe that what happened to M was the match that lit a very long standing fuse with Rebecca the ultimate victim. They opened up enough to let Rebecca in and to tolerate her, and now this family has closed ranks once again. I really wonder what would have ultimately happened with Rebecca and J had not that long standing fuse been lit? Protect the family at all costs? Just some random thoughts that are of course my opinion.