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time said:
Sunnie... back up a page on that link and there is an interesting discussion concerning Dina's timeline on the 12th. Hadn't heard the time for her was in dispute between 6-8pm.
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Time, there was also the statement made, that Time returned to Max's bedside at 7 pm, as it stated she went to Coronado at 7 am and returned at 7 pm, after sleeping.
 
Thank you again....Sunnie....finally at last...thank you!!! thank you!!! Playmuni....you are number one !! I agree 100%....thoughtful, kind, unselfish, lovely Rebecca ...may your dear soul( family) be at peace when the truth is known.....may there be strength to those who search justice for those who have been wronged....
 
Lights on or off?

I don't think I have ready anything but I would like to know if the lights in that bedroom were on or off when the police arrived. I would like to know what the house on the right hand side of the mansion could see. Apparently you could get shots of the courtyard from their home? Did they see or hear anything? Was anyone even home? Did they notice the lights on or off in that bedroom.

Surely a light would have been left on?

More questions than answers. I wonder if Anne's team has the file now?
 
JS speaking about the deaths in third person in a business address..

'We've obviously had an extraordinarily difficult time. We have undertaken some tragedies, some losses that one couldn't imagine experiencing in a lifetime'
Jonah Shacknai
 
Mrs. Holmes said:
Lights on or off?

I don't think I have ready anything but I would like to know if the lights in that bedroom were on or off when the police arrived. I would like to know what the house on the right hand side of the mansion could see. Apparently you could get shots of the courtyard from their home? Did they see or hear anything? Was anyone even home? Did they notice the lights on or off in that bedroom.

Surely a light would have been left on?

More questions than answers. I wonder if Anne's team has the file now?
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I found this photo .... the lights are OFF... who turned them off?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19130&stc=1&d=1318361026





The balcony is broken up into a 2” base along with the railing which consists or two 6” sections and a 24” section
 

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP6c15mGTso&feature=related"]Mysterious mansion death ruled a suicide - YouTube[/ame]

I think this has been posted previously, but loved Dr. Drews comments about the rope tying!
 
Mrs. Holmes said:
JS speaking about the deaths in third person in a business address..

'We've obviously had an extraordinarily difficult time. We have undertaken some tragedies, some losses that one couldn't imagine experiencing in a lifetime'
Jonah Shacknai
Click to expand...

Yes! Very staunch, smooth, cold, professional. He decided RZ's fate as soon as he knew Max was brain dead. On, JMO
 
banedon said:
Bladder/bowel evacuation as a result of 'primary flaccidity' happens in many instances of death, though it can take several hours after someone dies before it happens. It is a frequent occurrence but not a constant and will, of course, be dependent on the corpse's position, how vigorously it is moved around, and how 'full' it was at the time of death.

In the case of violent deaths, however, especially asphyxiations (ligature, garrotte, manual, mechanical, smothering) and hangings, it is almost a certainty and it will usually occur shortly before death or as the person is dying. Sometimes this is due to the fear and shock often associated with violent deaths (homicides especially). In most cases, however, it is a result of pressure on the vagal nerve bundle or the carotid artery, cutting off blood flow and restricting the brain from getting oxygen. This will cause all sorts of havoc in the muscle and nervous systems, one of which is often sphincters 'short-circuiting' and releasing body waste involuntarily.

A Danish forensics study conducted in 1981 on the effects of asphyxiation reported that in cases of death (suicide, homicide, or accidental) more than 65% of the bodies had a completely empty bladder at the time of autopsy, with many also having a partial evacuation. Their testing group consisted of 74 cadavers over a period of several years. By contrast, in their control group consisting of deaths that were not related to asphyxiation/hanging, only 14% had a complete evacuation. Evacuation during asphyxiation is also statistically more common in females than in males, as well, though that pertains to a different study altogether.

In any event, I just wanted to toss a little forensics trivia out at you in response to your question. As I stated, you are essentially correct. It is an extremely common occurrence in deaths like this one.

And, as someone else explained later on in the thread, 30-40 cc's of urine is a very insignificant amount. The average human bladder can hold more than 500 cc's for up to five hours without any discomfort, so she really had what amounted to about an eyedropper full of urine in her bladder for the postmortem examination. A partial bladder release leaving such a small amount is very common in deaths like this as well.

So yes, she very likely did have a bladder evacuation while hanging. The ~40 cc's mentioned in the autopsy report are probably just what was left over.
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Thank you so much for the in depth explanation! I was wondering if the ground under the rope was tested.
 
stilettos said:
Does anyone else find it odd that JS never went back to the Coronado mansion at all since picking up clothes after MS fall? I mean, not to check and see about RZ, not to help bro deal with finding RZ, not to see what LE was doing to his home....not at all. Like he just shut the door on it. Hmmm....interesting.
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If he had, it certainly wasn't reported. Very interesting!
 
I wonder if RZ's finger prints are on the light switch?

RZ actions that night....?

Go to garage, get rope, pick up two knives from kitchen and put this stuff in bedroom. How does she know rope is in garage?
Go get paint and brushes.
Remove t-shirt.
Paint message on door.
Get paint on nipple, hand and rope
Open balcony door. Fingerprints?
Without going onto balcony and testing. Throw rope over balcony railing to test length and pull back in.
Cut rope to just the right length to fasten noose and not hit the ground.
Tie rope to bed in a nauticle slip not. Learned this when?
Fasten a noose. Learned this when?
Put noose around head
Put t-shirt neck into mouth and wrap around neck three times.
Cut rest of rope in two one for hands and one for feet.
Turn out the lights.
Tie up feet in dark.
Tie up hands and take out hand and tie behind back... in the dark.
Hop onto balcony right at the door.
Hop to edge of balcony.
Lean over balcony sideways contorting body as feet still facing forward and you can only leave a small dust mark. Leave a fingerprint on railing when going over? Why sideways?

Impossible?
 
Zale said:
That's a good question! Were there rope fibers found on edge of right door where the rope would have made contact had the right door been closed when RZ went over balcony? If there weren't any, well, that surely would mean someone else closed the door AFTER she went over and if it wasn't LE who closed the door then it had to be the murderer!

Regarding the rope sliding across the balcony railing to create 9 inches of dust, well, from pic #3 on http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/ there is a gap with multiple clearings of dust from E to F to the final resting place of the rope which is unmarked in the pic but I shall call "Z". This gap of dust clearings appear consistent with the rope having skipped (rather than slide) many times across the railing when RZ's body went over, and the rope, once taut, her body then bounced around until the rope from her neck to bedpost re-aligned itself in accordance with gravity and forces exerted by bedpost to position Z.

Since the final position looks to be right around midline of balcony and midline between the two doors, that appears to fit with the right door having been closed at time of her death. However, I'd like to have forensics assert that they found fibers consistent with the hanging rope along the edge of the door to confirm that indeed the right door had been shut when she went over railing.

Here's a question I have. Looking at same pic#3, there are two relatively large, dust-free gaps at A and D only. To me, these gaps are consistent with someone having been thrown over from their side, with RZ's left thigh scraping against gap A and with her knee bent, her left foot scraping against gap D.

I'm curious to know whether forensics found dust on the outer edge of her left foot. I think if they did, this would be one clincher that someone else had thrown RZ over the balcony - because there is no physical way could she have jumped from her right tippy-toes to a full sideways position over the balcony railing.
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Any dust on her hands?
Someone in good shape and limber might be able to lean sideways and use tied up hands on the railing to help hoist yourself over? It could explain a sideways launch. Again... not enough dust marks... where was the fingerprint (s) on the balcony?
 
Mrs. Holmes said:
I wonder if RZ's finger prints are on the light switch?

RZ actions that night....?

Go to garage, get rope, pick up two knives from kitchen and put this stuff in bedroom. How does she know rope is in garage?
Go get paint and brushes.
Remove t-shirt.
Paint message on door.
Get paint on nipple, hand and rope
Open balcony door. Fingerprints?
Without going onto balcony and testing. Throw rope over balcony railing to test length and pull back in.
Cut rope to just the right length to fasten noose and not hit the ground.
Tie rope to bed in a nauticle slip not. Learned this when?
Fasten a noose. Learned this when?
Put noose around head
Put t-shirt neck into mouth and wrap around neck three times.
Cut rest of rope in two one for hands and one for feet.
Turn out the lights.
Tie up feet in dark.
Tie up hands and take out hand and tie behind back... in the dark.
Hop onto balcony right at the door.
Hop to edge of balcony.
Lean over balcony sideways contorting body as feet still facing forward and you can only leave a small dust mark. Leave a fingerprint on railing when going over? Why sideways?

Impossible?
Click to expand...

Look at the balcony photos again. There are absolutely NO rope marks.....anywhere. She allegedly hopped out on to the balcony with 7 feet of rope trailing off her hands but there were no rope marks on the floor of the balcony. Riddle me that Batman!
 
IWannaKnow said:
Look at the balcony photos again. There are absolutely NO rope marks.....anywhere. She allegedly hopped out on to the balcony with 7 feet of rope trailing off her hands but there were no rope marks on the floor of the balcony. Riddle me that Batman!
Click to expand...

Excellent point!
 
Mrs. Holmes said:
I wonder if RZ's finger prints are on the light switch?

RZ actions that night....?

Go to garage, get rope, pick up two knives from kitchen and put this stuff in bedroom. How does she know rope is in garage?
Go get paint and brushes.
Remove t-shirt.
Paint message on door.
Get paint on nipple, hand and rope
Open balcony door. Fingerprints?
Without going onto balcony and testing. Throw rope over balcony railing to test length and pull back in. Leaving no rope marks on balcony floor.
Cut rope to just the right length to fasten noose and not hit the ground.
Tie rope to bed in a nauticle slip not. Learned this when?
Fasten a noose. Learned this when?
Put noose around head
Put t-shirt neck into mouth and wrap around neck three times.
Cut rest of rope in two one for hands and one for feet.
Turn out the lights.
Tie up feet in dark.
Tie up hands and take out hand and tie behind back... in the dark. For unknown reason manages to hold onto extra trail of rope and does not leave rope marks on balcony floor?Hop onto balcony right at the door.
Hop to edge of balcony.
Lean over balcony sideways contorting body as feet still facing forward and you can only leave a small dust mark. Leave a fingerprint on railing when going over? Why sideways?

Impossible?
Click to expand...

It would be easier if she had somone throw her ??????
 
Mrs. Holmes said:
I found this photo .... the lights are OFF... who turned them off?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19130&stc=1&d=1318361026





The balcony is broken up into a 2” base along with the railing which consists or two 6” sections and a 24” section
Click to expand...

Very good point, Mrs. Holmes!

According to LE, that photo of the balcony was taken by a Coronado Police officer @ about 9:30 a.m. - many hours before the crime scene had been processed.

Clearly, there were no lights on in that room.

Obviously, RZ would have been unable to paint the message on the door, cut the rope into precise sections, tie the rope to the bed frame, bind her ankles, fashion a noose & place it around her neck, tie a tee shirt around her neck, bind her wrists, and then hop across the bedroom to the balcony in the dark.

No one else would have been able to accomplish these complex tasks in the dark, either.

So - a light must have been on while these activities occurred.

I seriously doubt that a suicidal person would have turned out the light before hurling herself over the railing (with a noose around her neck & with ankles & wrists bound). However, a murderer might when leaving the scene.

I don't recall any mention in the Power Point presentation about anyone's fingerprints or DNA being found on the light switch (including RZ's). Was the light switch even checked? I'm going to take a guess & say yes it was, since the door jamb was checked.

Therefore, I personally rule out the possibility that the same officer who contaminated the balcony with his boot print may have turned off the light prior to the balcony photo being taken, because if he had, his fingerprints and/or DNA would have been found on the light switch. The SDCSD has stated that no one else's fingerprints or DNA besides RZ's was found anywhere in that bedroom.

As I've said all along - that was one clean room! It's as if no one else had ever been in that room, which I find impossible to believe.

ETA: Who switched off the light? This is an important question the SDCSD needs to answer.
 
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