The case for murder

[*Lash*]

Even if DS wanted to kill RZ, without the assistance of JS and AS, she'd be hitting a lottery to be able to sneak into an occupied house, killed RZ, dragged her body over mud (as RZ's feet were covered in mud) and hanged her over a balcony, all without being heard or seen by AS who stayed in the same house. Even two neighbors heard the scream, did AS just black out? Even for whatever reason, AS did black out, how could DS reasonably expect AS to black out when planning the murder so everything could go so smoothly?

DS would be hitting another lottery when AS found RZ’s body next morning and immediately assumed RZ committed suicide even if her hands and feet were tied and mouth gagged. AS also did not leave any finger prints over the rope or RZ's body even if he cut her down.

Someone above commented that crimes in a wealthy household receive more attention. This is true. Let's not forget this applies to RZ too. As a girlfriend to a very wealthy and well connected man, her death should have normally received a very thorough investigation. Instead the shoddy work done (police boot mark on balcony, many evidence not tested, etc.) was beyond belief and helped the killer greatly. RZ's expert team encountered great obstacle in every step on the journey to obtain justice for RZ. It looks like DS hit yet another lottery!

I don't think DS is this lucky. I think she was only one of the perpetrators.

I think it was a man who executed RZ, saw her nude body, out of perverted arousal, also viewed *advertiser censored* on her computer.

MOO

RBM -

I agree with you. I tend to believe DS, NR, AS and possibly JS were all involved in some manner.

Initially, I don't believe Becky's murder was premeditated. I believe the premeditation came later when they realized her death was necessary to cover their tracks and the events of that fateful night.

In my opinion, Dina went to question Becky. Nina showed up out of concern for her sister. Dina went too far and Nina knew it. I believe at some point Nina woke Adam for help or even called Jonah for help. I believe Becky may have still been alive at this time. I believe Adam and Jonah spoke. I don't believe Jonah was there that night. They all knew the trouble they would be facing if they let Becky go. -jmo

 

[justice be served]

RBM -

I agree with you. I tend to believe DS, NR, AS and possibly JS were all involved in some manner.

Initially, I don't believe Becky's murder was premeditated. I believe the premeditation came later when they realized her death was necessary to cover their tracks and the events of that fateful night.

In my opinion, Dina went to question Becky. Nina showed up out of concern for her sister. Dina went too far and Nina knew it. I believe at some point Nina woke Adam for help or even called Jonah for help. I believe Becky may have still been alive at this time. I believe Adam and Jonah spoke. I don't believe Jonah was there that night. They all knew the trouble they would be facing if they let Becky go. -jmo

Well done!

 

[K_Z]

RBM -

I agree with you. I tend to believe DS, NR, AS and possibly JS were all involved in some manner.

Initially, I don't believe Becky's murder was premeditated. I believe the premeditation came later when they realized her death was necessary to cover their tracks and the events of that fateful night.

In my opinion, Dina went to question Becky. Nina showed up out of concern for her sister. Dina went too far and Nina knew it. I believe at some point Nina woke Adam for help or even called Jonah for help. I believe Becky may have still been alive at this time. I believe Adam and Jonah spoke. I don't believe Jonah was there that night. They all knew the trouble they would be facing if they let Becky go. -jmo

That's a pretty good theory! My thoughts have run in a similar thread. I have puzzled why JS would "cover" for Dina/ Nina if he had any knowledge or suspicion that they murdered RZ. The only plausible answers I have come up with are:

1.) JS knew nothing, or

2.) JS knew AS was involved along with Dina/ Nina, and is keeping quiet to protect AS's involvement, or

3.) JS knew Dina was headed in Rebecca's way to have some kind of angry/ violent confrontation, and didn't do much or anything to prevent it. He may not have anticipated that Dina was angry enough to actually kill Rebecca. He may have called RZ warning her Dina was furious, and was going to confront her-- that may be the "final" voicemail that is lost. When he found out the next morning that AS found her hanging, had to protect both his knowledge that Dina was on the warpath, and whatever level of involvement AS had. Which leads to keeping quiet about Dina/ Nina as well, to protect him and AS. I lean towards #3 the most strongly.

I can't think of any other theoretical situations where Jonah "knew" something, but would protect Dina or Nina from charges or investigation.

I have rejected the idea that JS ordered some kind of "hit" on RZ.

I'm on the fence about Adam's level of involvement.

I absolutely believe Dina and Nina were involved. The extreme anger and humiliation aspects of the murder have always appeared to me to be the work of a jealous and vindictive woman/ women, with a strong element of sadism. I believe Rebecca was taunted and tortured by another woman/ women in the process of murdering her. However, the act of tossing her over the balcony could have had male involvement for strength.

I don't think the murder was planned too far in advance-- as Lash has opined, it may have started out as "simply" an angry confrontation, that evolved to restraint and torture, that then "had" to be cleaned up with a murder to keep her quiet about what happened. Either way, it's premeditated first degree murder to me. But I am also a realist that it will never be charged that way. At best, if any charges ever came about in the years to come, manslaughter or 2nd degree. But I even doubt any criminal charges will ever come about.

The murderers got away with it. They hit the lottery with the suicide ruling, imo. They continue to be vigilant, imo, but they are full of hubris, and continue to feel secure attacking RZ post mortem. But I doubt that they will ever be charged. It would be nice if someone would grow a conscience and confess to what happened, but I doubt that will ever happen, either. AS has to be kept out of the spotlight, and away from the media, because he is so oddly verbally impulsive, he is the one who could inadvertently say something to implicate all 4 of them, imo. Dina and Nina have each other's backs, and are smart enough to keep quiet. Jonah just wants Dina and Nina completely out of his life, and appears to be doing his best to shut them out and ignore them, imo. Dina, and Nina, imo, will live under a cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives.

If Dina files a suit against Jonah, with her extreme level of hubris, she may completely underestimate his counter move, imo. If she is smart, imo, she will just go away and live the rest of her life on the winnings from the divorce settlement, and not try for more. He could come out of the woodwork and squash her like a bug, imo.

 

[Inparadise]

RBM -

I agree with you. I tend to believe DS, NR, AS and possibly JS were all involved in some manner.

Initially, I don't believe Becky's murder was premeditated. I believe the premeditation came later when they realized her death was necessary to cover their tracks and the events of that fateful night.

In my opinion, Dina went to question Becky. Nina showed up out of concern for her sister. Dina went too far and Nina knew it. I believe at some point Nina woke Adam for help or even called Jonah for help. I believe Becky may have still been alive at this time. I believe Adam and Jonah spoke. I don't believe Jonah was there that night. They all knew the trouble they would be facing if they let Becky go. -jmo

I have always thought that premeditation was involved, from just after Max's fall. And I have always thought that the 4 of them were involved, much like "Murder on the Orient Express"........There was a reason that Adam was here, and it wasn't for the emotional support of his brother.

 

[KarenM]

RBM -

I agree with you. I tend to believe DS, NR, AS and possibly JS were all involved in some manner.

Initially, I don't believe Becky's murder was premeditated. I believe the premeditation came later when they realized her death was necessary to cover their tracks and the events of that fateful night.

In my opinion, Dina went to question Becky. Nina showed up out of concern for her sister. Dina went too far and Nina knew it. I believe at some point Nina woke Adam for help or even called Jonah for help. I believe Becky may have still been alive at this time. I believe Adam and Jonah spoke. I don't believe Jonah was there that night. They all knew the trouble they would be facing if they let Becky go. -jmo

Police reports on the domestic disputes filed by JS and DS against each other showed both of them could be violent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-Shacknai-violent-marriage-ex-wife-Dina.html

But they were violent in different ways. Dina was the hands-on type as JS claimed she tried to choke him and broke his finger. JS was the clever one (DS said to police he's clever and powerful) and used his German Shepard to do the damage to DS. I think this might be an interesting parallel. If these two united against RZ for the shared belief that RZ was responsible for Max's death, DS might want to be hands-on, while JS might utilize a third party - AS was his German Shepard this time. JS himself could stay off site easily.

If JS, AS, DS did work together to kill RZ, it's not a myth why LE wouldn't investigate DS even after witness claimed to have seen her at the mansion and even DS herself never tried to hide her despise of RZ. She was not investigated because protecting her means protecting everyone in the crime. And she certainly has a powerful protector.

Some would ask if JS was indeed involved, why didn't he smear RZ's name and campaign to reopen Max's case. Because Max's autopsy report, which was not available at time of RZ's death refuted the suffocation theory, smearing RZ's name doesn't do any good except for giving out a motive for RZ's murder, also because any result from a new investigation on Max's death would only cast doubt on LE's conclusion RZ committed suicide.

If LE's conducts a new investigation on Max's death, it could only have two outcomes: accidental death or homicide ( I don't think anyone would think Max died of natural cause or suicide).

If LE's new investigation on Max's death concludes with an accidental death just like before ( this is the likely result based on the evidence), people will ask why RZ committed suicide? Children die of tragic accidents all the time. How many mothers/fathers commit suicide over it? Not mention RZ was not Max's mother. As devastated as DS was, she did not commit suicide, right?

Although unlikely, if LE's new investigation on Max's death concludes Max's was murdered, it also did not make any sense for RZ to commit suicide out of guilt. A sociopathic killer who's capable of killing an innocent child would not grow conscience overnight and commit suicide out of guilt.

So whatever the result is, it undermines the RZ suicide theory. She could only be murdered. The clever thing for her killer(s) to do was to shut up.

MOO

 

[Inparadise]

Police reports on the domestic disputes filed by JS and DS against each other showed both of them could be violent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-Shacknai-violent-marriage-ex-wife-Dina.html

But they were violent in different ways. Dina was the hands-on type as JS claimed she tried to choke him and broke his finger. JS was the clever one (DS said to police he's clever and powerful) and used his German Shepard to do the damage to DS. I think this might be an interesting parallel. If these two united against RZ for the shared belief that RZ was responsible for Max's death, DS might want to be hands-on, while JS might utilize a third party - AS was his German Shepard this time. JS himself could stay off site easily.

If JS, AS, DS did work together to kill RZ, it's not a myth why LE wouldn't investigate DS even after witness claimed to have seen her at the mansion and even DS herself never tried to hide her despise of RZ. She was not investigated because protecting her means protecting everyone in the crime. And she certainly has a powerful protector.

Some would ask if JS was indeed involved, why didn't he smear RZ's name and campaign to reopen Max's case. Because it doesn't do any good except for giving out a motive for RZ's murder, because any result from a new investigation on Max's death would only cast doubt on LE's conclusion RZ committed suicide.

If LE's conducts a new investigation on Max's death, it could only have two outcomes: accidental death or homicide ( I don't think anyone would think Max died of natural cause or suicide).

If LE's new investigation on Max's death concludes with an accidental death just like before ( this is the likely result based on the evidence), people will ask why RZ committed suicide? Children die of tragic accidents all the time. How many mothers/fathers commit suicide over it? Not mention RZ was not Max's mother. As devastated as DS was, she did not commit suicide, right?

If LE's new investigation on Max's death concludes Max's was murdered, it also did not make any sense for RZ to commit suicide out of guilt. A sociopathic killer who's capable of killing an innocent child would not grow conscience overnight and commit suicide out of guilt.

So whatever the result is, it undermines the RZ suicide theory. She could only be murdered. The clever thing for her killer(s) to do was to shut up.

MOO

IMO, Dina still has POINT to PROVE (publicly) with Jonah regarding Rebecca, and this is what is going to do her in...........

 

[K_Z]

I agree, Inparadise. I don't think Dina is done, by a long shot. This is the calm before the storm.

 

[Inparadise]

I agree, Inparadise. I don't think Dina is done, by a long shot. This is the calm before the storm.

And we all know that there had to be a reason(s) for Hallier and Budinger departing from Maxie's House.......so suddenly.

 

[Nom de plume]

I still believe AS was involved, I suspect JS was, and am really coming to believe that Dina was too. I haven't really formed an opinion about Nina yet.

The things that get me about AS are:

- Who finds their brother's gf naked, bound, gagged, and hanging and immediately thinks "suicide"? My first thought would be murder!
- Who jokes about his "bedside manner" right after her death? That statement has always hit me as being seriously off as well as inappropriate.
- The 911 call still strikes me as being contrived and phoney. It sounds to me like he is trying to sound upset. All the running around and heavy breathing, the "Are you alive?" remark, etc. "Becky! Wake up!" or "Talk to me! Open your eyes!" but "Are you alive?" Maybe it's just me but that does not sound natural at all IMO.
- Admitted *advertiser censored* watcher + kinky asain anime (sp?) *advertiser censored* on the comp = ? At the least an odd coincidence, at most a red flag.

K_Z I've always wondered about why JS would cover for Dina. You provided some good possibilities as to why he might. If anything, I think it points the finger right back at AS. I'm leaning more towards option #2, but #3 is a possiblility too. Good point about the VM being a warning that Dina was on the warpath. Without AS's involvement I think JS would point the finger at Dina so fast it would make your head swim, even if he had no actual knowledge that she did it.

 

[time]

That's a pretty good theory! My thoughts have run in a similar thread. I have puzzled why JS would "cover" for Dina/ Nina if he had any knowledge or suspicion that they murdered RZ. The only plausible answers I have come up with are:

1.) JS knew nothing, or

2.) JS knew AS was involved along with Dina/ Nina, and is keeping quiet to protect AS's involvement, or

3.) JS knew Dina was headed in Rebecca's way to have some kind of angry/ violent confrontation, and didn't do much or anything to prevent it. He may not have anticipated that Dina was angry enough to actually kill Rebecca. He may have called RZ warning her Dina was furious, and was going to confront her-- that may be the "final" voicemail that is lost. When he found out the next morning that AS found her hanging, had to protect both his knowledge that Dina was on the warpath, and whatever level of involvement AS had. Which leads to keeping quiet about Dina/ Nina as well, to protect him and AS. I lean towards #3 the most strongly.

I can't think of any other theoretical situations where Jonah "knew" something, but would protect Dina or Nina from charges or investigation.

I have rejected the idea that JS ordered some kind of "hit" on RZ.

I'm on the fence about Adam's level of involvement.

I absolutely believe Dina and Nina were involved. The extreme anger and humiliation aspects of the murder have always appeared to me to be the work of a jealous and vindictive woman/ women, with a strong element of sadism. I believe Rebecca was taunted and tortured by another woman/ women in the process of murdering her. However, the act of tossing her over the balcony could have had male involvement for strength.

I don't think the murder was planned too far in advance-- as Lash has opined, it may have started out as "simply" an angry confrontation, that evolved to restraint and torture, that then "had" to be cleaned up with a murder to keep her quiet about what happened. Either way, it's premeditated first degree murder to me. But I am also a realist that it will never be charged that way. At best, if any charges ever came about in the years to come, manslaughter or 2nd degree. But I even doubt any criminal charges will ever come about.

The murderers got away with it. They hit the lottery with the suicide ruling, imo. They continue to be vigilant, imo, but they are full of hubris, and continue to feel secure attacking RZ post mortem. But I doubt that they will ever be charged. It would be nice if someone would grow a conscience and confess to what happened, but I doubt that will ever happen, either. AS has to be kept out of the spotlight, and away from the media, because he is so oddly verbally impulsive, he is the one who could inadvertently say something to implicate all 4 of them, imo. Dina and Nina have each other's backs, and are smart enough to keep quiet. Jonah just wants Dina and Nina completely out of his life, and appears to be doing his best to shut them out and ignore them, imo. Dina, and Nina, imo, will live under a cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives.

If Dina files a suit against Jonah, with her extreme level of hubris, she may completely underestimate his counter move, imo. If she is smart, imo, she will just go away and live the rest of her life on the winnings from the divorce settlement, and not try for more. He could come out of the woodwork and squash her like a bug, imo.

Great post ... these possibilities are really close or the same as what I have thought for a while. I think it's possible that either Dina and Nina got Adam involved at some point or just that what transpired implicated him.

In my opinion, your #1 and #3 are the biggest possibilities except we don't know if Jonah did tell LE she was on the warpath. If it's #3 then I think even Jonah would have underestimated the result (later I'd like to bring up the timing of his voice mail).

BBM - since I tend towards Jonah just protecting Adam and not really having anything to do with Dina and Nina's activities, I'm thinking he will counter her big time if she keeps pushing. I also tend to think that Jonah now realizes Adam's involvement is small or nill and that would not fare well for Dina pushing things at all.

 

[Bonepile]

and I truly believe given enough time Dina will overstep, say one or two more things, and all of this planning and this collusion will start to unravel. I just wonder if anyone (other than us) will be paying any attention?

 

[Gilgamesh]

That's a pretty good theory! My thoughts have run in a similar thread. I have puzzled why JS would "cover" for Dina/ Nina if he had any knowledge or suspicion that they murdered RZ. The only plausible answers I have come up with are:

1.) JS knew nothing, or

2.) JS knew AS was involved along with Dina/ Nina, and is keeping quiet to protect AS's involvement, or

3.) JS knew Dina was headed in Rebecca's way to have some kind of angry/ violent confrontation, and didn't do much or anything to prevent it. He may not have anticipated that Dina was angry enough to actually kill Rebecca. He may have called RZ warning her Dina was furious, and was going to confront her-- that may be the "final" voicemail that is lost. When he found out the next morning that AS found her hanging, had to protect both his knowledge that Dina was on the warpath, and whatever level of involvement AS had. Which leads to keeping quiet about Dina/ Nina as well, to protect him and AS. I lean towards #3 the most strongly.

I can't think of any other theoretical situations where Jonah "knew" something, but would protect Dina or Nina from charges or investigation.

I have rejected the idea that JS ordered some kind of "hit" on RZ.

I'm on the fence about Adam's level of involvement.

I absolutely believe Dina and Nina were involved. The extreme anger and humiliation aspects of the murder have always appeared to me to be the work of a jealous and vindictive woman/ women, with a strong element of sadism. I believe Rebecca was taunted and tortured by another woman/ women in the process of murdering her. However, the act of tossing her over the balcony could have had male involvement for strength.

I don't think the murder was planned too far in advance-- as Lash has opined, it may have started out as "simply" an angry confrontation, that evolved to restraint and torture, that then "had" to be cleaned up with a murder to keep her quiet about what happened. Either way, it's premeditated first degree murder to me. But I am also a realist that it will never be charged that way. At best, if any charges ever came about in the years to come, manslaughter or 2nd degree. But I even doubt any criminal charges will ever come about.

The murderers got away with it. They hit the lottery with the suicide ruling, imo. They continue to be vigilant, imo, but they are full of hubris, and continue to feel secure attacking RZ post mortem. But I doubt that they will ever be charged. It would be nice if someone would grow a conscience and confess to what happened, but I doubt that will ever happen, either. AS has to be kept out of the spotlight, and away from the media, because he is so oddly verbally impulsive, he is the one who could inadvertently say something to implicate all 4 of them, imo. Dina and Nina have each other's backs, and are smart enough to keep quiet. Jonah just wants Dina and Nina completely out of his life, and appears to be doing his best to shut them out and ignore them, imo. Dina, and Nina, imo, will live under a cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives.

If Dina files a suit against Jonah, with her extreme level of hubris, she may completely underestimate his counter move, imo. If she is smart, imo, she will just go away and live the rest of her life on the winnings from the divorce settlement, and not try for more. He could come out of the woodwork and squash her like a bug, imo.

I can. If what the verified insider in this case has stated is true, then there is indeed a reason that JS would protect Dina. According to our insider, DINA had something on Jonah that was strong enough to break a pre-nup. If that piece of information against Jonah was THAT potentially harmful to him, then Jonah may be holding the fact Dina murdered RZ over her head. Stalemate. Tit for tat.

 

[Inparadise]

I can. If what the verified insider in this case has stated is true, then there is indeed a reason that JS would protect Dina. According to our insider, DINA had something on Jonah that was strong enough to break a pre-nup. If that piece of information against Jonah was THAT potentially harmful to him, then Jonah may be holding the fact Dina murdered RZ over her head. Stalemate. Tit for tat.

I don't know what the statute of limitations are regarding the "dirt" that Dina had on Jonah.........if it has passed, then all bets are off, unless of course, Dina has threatened to implicate Adam.......that might be what is keeping Jonah quiet.........for now.

 

[K_Z]

K_Z I've always wondered about why JS would cover for Dina. Good point about the VM being a warning that Dina was on the warpath. Without AS's involvement I think JS would point the finger at Dina so fast it would make your head swim, even if he had no actual knowledge that she did it.

(Snipped and BBM for relevance.)

OH yeah. Did ANYone (except a very few catty ones) ever believe the feline fabrication (ok, fantasy) furthered that Jonah left a voicemail to "break up with Rebecca" and "tell her to pack her bags and leave"? GMAB-- even a 6th grader could see thru that and come up with a better story. Pussy cat dreams, imo.

It's as ridiculous as trying to plant the idea that Rebecca was "abusive" (lol!) for encouraging good nutrition and healthy choices, lol! While stealthily practicing her jiu jitsu moves just in case someone in the home reached for junk food! ROFLMAO! Good lord-- what if she supported a reasonable bedtime for children?? Maybe even believed in regular bathing, teeth brushing, and good hygiene? Manners, respect, and polite behaviors in teenagers? Horrors! We certainly can't have people like THAT caring for CHILDREN!

What I think would be more interesting is to know what Rebecca's "pattern" of handling her voicemails and texts was. Did she commonly review and delete immediately? Was she fastidious in clearing out messages quickly, or did she save them a while?

 

[Inparadise]

(Snipped and BBM for relevance.)

OH yeah. Did ANYone (except a very few catty ones) ever believe the feline fabrication (ok, fantasy) furthered that Jonah left a voicemail to "break up with Rebecca" and "tell her to pack her bags and leave"? GMAB-- even a 6th grader could see thru that and come up with a better story. Pussy cat dreams, imo.

It's as ridiculous as trying to plant the idea that Rebecca was "abusive" (lol!) for encouraging good nutrition and healthy choices, lol! While stealthily practicing her jiu jitsu moves just in case someone in the home reached for junk food! ROFLMAO! Good lord-- what if she supported a reasonable bedtime for children?? Maybe even believed in regular bathing, teeth brushing, and good hygiene? Manners, respect, and polite behaviors in teenagers? Horrors! We certainly can't have people like THAT caring for CHILDREN!

What I think would be more interesting is to know what Rebecca's "pattern" of handling her voicemails and texts was. Did she commonly review and delete immediately? Was she fastidious in clearing out messages quickly, or did she save them a while?

I would certainly prefer to have Rebecca care for my children rather than someone like Dina, with her history of DV, her love of junk food and alcohol........I have always wondered if she allowed the teens to drink......what ever she was drinking? I have seen pics of she and the kids together, and she looks totally trashed.

 

[KarenM]

I tend to believe JS's involvement was more active. I think his involvement was not aimed at helping AS. On the contrary, I think AS's involvement was to help JS. After all, it was JS who invited AS to Coronado. If AS was invited for moral support, he should be at the hospital. I read over a year ago that AS never went to the hospital. I am not sure whether this was accurate. If so, it would raise some serious questions in terms of AS's purpose in Coronado.

Another thing that bothers me was the possibility of AS helping DS harm RZ without JS' consent. RZ was JS's then girlfriend and could be AS's furture sister in law. Dina was JS's estranged ex wife who went through a bitter divorce with JS. AS should be closer to RZ than to DS at that time. If JS did not ask him to harm RZ, killing RZ was equivalent to destroying his brother's life. JS was already about to lose his son, how could AS harm his girlfriend behind his back? What type of brother is that? I don't think AS would touch RZ without JS's order just to help DS.

Last, if things went wrong at night with DS's plan, and AS was dragged in unexpectedly, I think AS would contact JS in the chaos. He would ask him for suggestions, help, and advice. But it seemed AS only contacted JS the next morning after he supposedly found the dead RZ. He sent JS a text message telling him RZ killed herself. This message feels like a "job done" report.

 

[Carioca]

I tend to believe JS's involvement was more active. I think his involvement was not aimed at helping AS. On the contrary, I think AS's involvement was to help JS. After all, it was JS who invited AS to Coronado. If AS was invited for moral support, he should be at the hospital. I read over a year ago that AS never went to the hospital. I am not sure whether this was accurate. If so, it would raise some serious questions in terms of AS's purpose in Coronado.

Another thing that bothers me was the possibility of AS helping DS harm RZ without JS' consent. RZ was JS's then girlfriend and could be AS's furture sister in law. Dina was JS's estranged ex wife who went through a bitter divorce with JS. AS should be closer to RZ than to DS at that time. If JS did not ask him to harm RZ, killing RZ was equivalent to destroying his brother's life. JS was already about to lose his son, how could AS harm his girlfriend behind his back? What type of brother is that? I don't think AS would touch RZ without JS's order just to help DS.

Last, if things went wrong at night with DS's plan, and AS was dragged in unexpectedly, I think AS would contact JS in the chaos. He would ask him for suggestions, help, and advice. But it seemed AS only contacted JS the next morning after he supposedly found the dead RZ. He sent JS a text message telling him RZ killed herself. This message feels like a "job done" report.

Excellent post, KarenM! I totally agree and couldn't have stated it better. Thank you.

 

[Gilgamesh]

(Snipped and BBM for relevance.)

OH yeah. Did ANYone (except a very few catty ones) ever believe the feline fabrication (ok, fantasy) furthered that Jonah left a voicemail to "break up with Rebecca" and "tell her to pack her bags and leave"? GMAB-- even a 6th grader could see thru that and come up with a better story. Pussy cat dreams, imo.

It's as ridiculous as trying to plant the idea that Rebecca was "abusive" (lol!) for encouraging good nutrition and healthy choices, lol! While stealthily practicing her jiu jitsu moves just in case someone in the home reached for junk food! ROFLMAO! Good lord-- what if she supported a reasonable bedtime for children?? Maybe even believed in regular bathing, teeth brushing, and good hygiene? Manners, respect, and polite behaviors in teenagers? Horrors! We certainly can't have people like THAT caring for CHILDREN!

What I think would be more interesting is to know what Rebecca's "pattern" of handling her voicemails and texts was. Did she commonly review and delete immediately? Was she fastidious in clearing out messages quickly, or did she save them a while?

Feline is such a pretty word. I prefer the term 'feral'

 

[bourne]

That's a pretty good theory! My thoughts have run in a similar thread. I have puzzled why JS would "cover" for Dina/ Nina if he had any knowledge or suspicion that they murdered RZ. The only plausible answers I have come up with are:

1.) JS knew nothing, or

2.) JS knew AS was involved along with Dina/ Nina, and is keeping quiet to protect AS's involvement, or

3.) JS knew Dina was headed in Rebecca's way to have some kind of angry/ violent confrontation, and didn't do much or anything to prevent it. He may not have anticipated that Dina was angry enough to actually kill Rebecca. He may have called RZ warning her Dina was furious, and was going to confront her-- that may be the "final" voicemail that is lost. When he found out the next morning that AS found her hanging, had to protect both his knowledge that Dina was on the warpath, and whatever level of involvement AS had. Which leads to keeping quiet about Dina/ Nina as well, to protect him and AS. I lean towards #3 the most strongly.

I can't think of any other theoretical situations where Jonah "knew" something, but would protect Dina or Nina from charges or investigation.

I have rejected the idea that JS ordered some kind of "hit" on RZ.

I'm on the fence about Adam's level of involvement.

I absolutely believe Dina and Nina were involved. The extreme anger and humiliation aspects of the murder have always appeared to me to be the work of a jealous and vindictive woman/ women, with a strong element of sadism. I believe Rebecca was taunted and tortured by another woman/ women in the process of murdering her. However, the act of tossing her over the balcony could have had male involvement for strength.

I don't think the murder was planned too far in advance-- as Lash has opined, it may have started out as "simply" an angry confrontation, that evolved to restraint and torture, that then "had" to be cleaned up with a murder to keep her quiet about what happened. Either way, it's premeditated first degree murder to me. But I am also a realist that it will never be charged that way. At best, if any charges ever came about in the years to come, manslaughter or 2nd degree. But I even doubt any criminal charges will ever come about.

The murderers got away with it. They hit the lottery with the suicide ruling, imo. They continue to be vigilant, imo, but they are full of hubris, and continue to feel secure attacking RZ post mortem. But I doubt that they will ever be charged. It would be nice if someone would grow a conscience and confess to what happened, but I doubt that will ever happen, either. AS has to be kept out of the spotlight, and away from the media, because he is so oddly verbally impulsive, he is the one who could inadvertently say something to implicate all 4 of them, imo. Dina and Nina have each other's backs, and are smart enough to keep quiet. Jonah just wants Dina and Nina completely out of his life, and appears to be doing his best to shut them out and ignore them, imo. Dina, and Nina, imo, will live under a cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives.

If Dina files a suit against Jonah, with her extreme level of hubris, she may completely underestimate his counter move, imo. If she is smart, imo, she will just go away and live the rest of her life on the winnings from the divorce settlement, and not try for more. He could come out of the woodwork and squash her like a bug, imo.

Excellent theory! I've of similar thoughts.

I do believe the rope-binding and noose-hanging of Becky off the courtyard balcony was premeditated, long before Max's accident. The plot likely started out as a sick, sadistic "fantasy" in an angry, jealous woman's mind to punish Becky for "stealing" her man Jonah, and became more concrete after the woman watched the movie, "The Housemaid". The fantasy was building up to a climax, and became a reality upon Max's accident.

I believe the murderer would have carried out her sick fantasy and killed Becky -- even if Max had survived. The murderer lacks self-control and was already on an explosive course to commit the heinous crime. She was a ticking time-bomb. Max's accident served as the perfect justification she needed for the kill. The murderer didn't just want to quickly kill Becky, she wanted to do it in the most humiliating and terrifying way possible. The murderer threw everything into the mix -- nudity, bindings, noose, public hanging, loony black painting of words on door, etc. I can only imagine the terror in Rebecca as she was tormented and tortured by the murderer and her accomplice the last hours of her life.

As to the 3 scenarios of Jonah's involvement or non-involvement in the murder, IDK. I lean most strongly towards #1. I don't think Jonah knew or participated in Becky's murder. I'm still on the fence about Adam's involvement.

I think Jonah might have initially inadvertently helped cover up the crime by calling Pfingst in to protect Adam. I don't believe Jonah suspected Adam as killing Becky; he only wanted to help his inarticulate, socially awkward brother who seems to have a tendency to blurt out inappropriate things and stick his foot in his mouth.

Since an insider had informed us that Jonah and his two teenage children from his first marriage have not been on speaking terms with Dina since Max's burial, and that it appears he and his first ex-wife have been keeping their children on a tight leash away from Dina (when prior to Max's death Dina and Nina were close to and actually hung out a lot with the female teen GS), it is evident that they fear at worst, that Dina is a killer, or at best, an extremely negative influence.

Given that Jonah has severed ties permanently with Dina, had Jonah previously colluded with Dina in murdering Becky, either he or Dina would have pointed fingers at each other already. The fact that neither has done so means they did not conspire together. You have to ask why if Dina is innocent and she suspected Jonah of having done harm to either Max or Becky, with Dina's hate and bitterness towards Becky and presumably Jonah, why hasn't she express her suspicions about Jonah to the police? I think it's because she knows he did not do anything to either Max or Becky because she herself was the murderer, along with her sister. Also, if she publicly blames Jonah for either deaths, she will lose any financial support she continues to receive from him. And she does not want to lose her high-paying lifeline.

Why hasn't Jonah point the finger at Dina? Maybe it's because he has no proof that she did anything and doesn't want to get entangled in an ongoing police investigation. Or as another poster said, maybe Dina has the sword of Damocles hanging over him. I would suspect that the sword has to do with his past business finances.

Someone asked incredulously how could Dina have lugged Becky and toss her over the balcony by herself? Well, I have no doubt that two huge, Amazonian type, aggressive, raging women like Dina and Nina (both over 5'7" and heavily built over 180 lbs) high on adrenaline and hate could easily haul a hands and ankles-bounded petite Becky (5'3" and 103 lbs) to the balcony and toss her over like a tied up sack of rice.

I speak from experience. I'm only 5'6" and 125 lbs and I can easily carry my 100-lb child across the room and lay him down on the sofa. You'll be amazed at the amount of physical strength one woman, especially a mother, can muster when necessary. And since there were two women -- Dina and Nina -- hauling Becky to the balcony and throwing her over would be a cinch.

So my view is that Becky was murdered by only the two women, Dina and Nina.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Excellent theory! I've of similar thoughts.

I do believe the rope-binding and noose-hanging of Becky off the courtyard balcony was premeditated, long before Max's accident. The plot likely started out as a sick, sadistic "fantasy" in an angry, jealous woman's mind to punish Becky for "stealing" her man Jonah, and became more concrete after the woman watched the movie, "The Housemaid". The fantasy was building up to a climax, and became a reality upon Max's accident.

I believe the murderer would have carried out her sick fantasy and killed Becky -- even if Max had survived. The murderer lacks self-control and was already on an explosive course to commit the heinous crime. She was a ticking time-bomb. Max's accident served as the perfect justification she needed for the kill. The murderer didn't just want to quickly kill Becky, she wanted to do it in the most humiliating and terrifying way possible. The murderer threw everything into the mix -- nudity, bindings, noose, public hanging, loony black painting of words on door, etc. I can only imagine the terror in Rebecca as she was tormented and tortured by the murderer and her accomplice the last hours of her life.

As to the 3 scenarios of Jonah's involvement or non-involvement in the murder, IDK. I lean most strongly towards #1. I don't think Jonah knew or participated in Becky's murder. I'm still on the fence about Adam's involvement.

I think Jonah might have initially inadvertently helped cover up the crime by calling Pfingst in to protect Adam. I don't believe Jonah suspected Adam as killing Becky; he only wanted to help his inarticulate, socially awkward brother who seems to have a tendency to blurt out inappropriate things and stick his foot in his mouth.

Since an insider had informed us that Jonah and his two teenage children from his first marriage have not been on speaking terms with Dina since Max's burial, and that it appears he and his first ex-wife have been keeping their children on a tight leash away from Dina (when prior to Max's death Dina and Nina were close to and actually hung out a lot with the female teen GS), it is evident that they fear at worst, that Dina is a killer, or at best, an extremely negative influence.

Given that Jonah has severed ties permanently with Dina, had Jonah previously colluded with Dina in murdering Becky, either he or Dina would have pointed fingers at each other already. The fact that neither has done so means they did not conspire together. You have to ask why if Dina is innocent and she suspected Jonah of having done harm to either Max or Becky, with Dina's hate and bitterness towards Becky and presumably Jonah, why hasn't she express her suspicions about Jonah to the police? I think it's because she knows he did not do anything to either Max or Becky because she herself was the murderer, along with her sister. Also, if she publicly blames Jonah for either deaths, she will lose any financial support she continues to receive from him. And she does not want to lose her high-paying lifeline.

Why hasn't Jonah point the finger at Dina? Maybe it's because he has no proof that she did anything and doesn't want to get entangled in an ongoing police investigation. Or as another poster said, maybe Dina has the sword of Damocles hanging over him. I would suspect that the sword has to do with his past business finances.

Someone asked incredulously how could Dina have lugged Becky and toss her over the balcony by herself? Well, I have no doubt that two huge, Amazonian type, aggressive, raging women like Dina and Nina (both over 5'7" and heavily built over 180 lbs) high on adrenaline and hate could easily haul a hands and ankles-bounded petite Becky (5'3" and 103 lbs) to the balcony and toss her over like a tied up sack of rice.

I speak from experience. I'm only 5'6" and 125 lbs and I can easily carry my 100-lb child across the room and lay him down on the sofa. You'll be amazed at the amount of physical strength one woman, especially a mother, can muster when necessary. And since there were two women -- Dina and Nina -- hauling Becky to the balcony and throwing her over would be a cinch.

So my view is that Becky was murdered by only the two women, Dina and Nina.

....IF she went over the balcony.......