The case for murder

[*Lash*]

I have a good theory about why the rope was tied to the bed instead of the balcony railing. It only makes sense from a murderer's perspective. Had the murderers attached/tied the hanging rope from the balcony railing, they would have to ENTER the balcony and leave indelible footprints on the dusty balcony floor.

So instead, the murderers tied the noose-hanging rope using stabilizing knots on the bedpost inside the murder room. They used gloves to handle everything -- the ropes, paint, knives, bindings of Rebecca. That is why NO prints/DNA were found on the items, and only mixed DNA were found which they might inadvertently have left despite wearing gloves.

The reason they tied the hanging rope inside the murder room is because each of the three defendants now named in the Zahaus' wrongful death suit (Dina, Nina and Adam) felt, if the investigators found any of their DNA/prints in the room, they can easily explain the prints/DNA away. Dina could say she had lived in the Spreckels mansion with Jonah in the past, and Nina and Adam could claim they visited and used that murder room in the past. They'd all be able to claim that it is not unusual for some of their residual prints/DNA to still be inside the murder room because they had used it (frequently) in the past.

However, had the murderers wanted to tie the rope to the balcony railing, they would have to step onto the dusty balcony and in doing so, they would have to leave FOOTPRINTS. Their footprints would indicate they were at the Spreckels mansion RECENTLY. THAT they cannot easily explain away because no one would reasonably believe that these three defendants' footprints were left "from the distant past" when likely rain would have washed those old footprints off and dust would have then accumulated on top of those old footprints, thoroughly covering them already.

And OMG I just had a eureka moment. A most plausible theory as to why the 3-legged table broke is that the 3 murderers had originally wanted to hang the rope directly from the balcony railing but did not want to walk onto the dusty balcony floor to tie the rope for fear they'd leave footprints. So they tried to stand atop the courtyard table to tie the rope to the balcony railing FROM BELOW. But when the murderers climbed atop the table, they were so heavy, one leg of the table broke off! :scared:

In short, I believe strongly that the murderers then decided the best place to tie the hanging rope would be to the bedpost inside the murder room. They stood at the balcony doors inside the room and threw the hogtied Rebecca over the balcony railing. That is why there was a shoeprint and bootprint at the balcony doors only.

I agree with your theory concerning why the rope was tied to the bed rather than the railing. I do believe Rebecca was dropped from the balcony. Two theories. In my opinion, she could have been hoisted to the top of the balcony where she was then dropped. My second theory, her body was slid over the railing on her side. Sadly since Rebecca was tied, bound and likely unconscious this would allow a perp to have complete control over her mere 100 pound body. It is feasible a perp kept their feet inside, stood at the balcony doors lifted RZ's body and slid her over the railing. In my opinion, this could be done by one person, but I tend to believe two people lifted her body. The sliding fits the dust disturbed on the railing. I don't have an explanation for the footprints because I do not believe they belonged to Rebecca. However more footprints should have been found if RZ did this outrageous feat herself. SDSO did not even compare actual footprints. The 15 investigators postulated they belonged to RZ because the size appeared to be the same, yet did they even consider 3 teens had been in the house just days before. Then they contaminated the scene with boot prints allegedly left by a detective.

In my opinion, if Rebecca wanted to kill herself by hanging she would have no reason to use the bed frame when it was much easier to use the railing. All she had to do was simply walk out on to the balcony, tie the rope to to railing, throw the access rope over, walk outside and use the table. Much, much easier and it would still create a dramatic effect.

 

[IQuestion]

I think this is the link TO THE BED RE-ENACTMENT everyone is asking about....along with weights added to simulate the weight of the original bed and a large bag weighing about 100 lbs.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15940480/...nt-reveals-new-questions?clienttype=printable
(Don't mean to interrupt, but I thought I'd cut in for a sec)

 

[bourne]

I agree with your theory concerning why the rope was tied to the bed rather than the railing. I do believe Rebecca was dropped from the balcony. Two theories. In my opinion, she could have been hoisted to the top of the balcony where she was then dropped. My second theory, her body was slid over the railing on her side. Sadly since Rebecca was tied, bound and likely unconscious this would allow a perp to have complete control over her mere 100 pound body. It is feasible a perp kept their feet inside, stood at the balcony doors lifted RZ's body and slid her over the railing. In my opinion, this could be done by one person, but I tend to believe two people lifted her body. The sliding fits the dust disturbed on the railing. I don't have an explanation for the footprints because I do not believe they belonged to Rebecca. However more footprints should have been found if RZ did this outrageous feat herself. SDSO did not even compare actual footprints. The 15 investigators postulated they belonged to RZ because the size appeared to be the same, yet did they even consider 3 teens had been in the house just days before. Then they contaminated the scene with boot prints allegedly left by a detective.

In my opinion, if Rebecca wanted to kill herself by hanging she would have no reason to use the bed frame when it was much easier to use the railing. All she had to do was simply walk out on to the balcony, tie the rope to to railing, throw the access rope over, walk outside and use the table. Much, much easier and it would still create a dramatic effect.

I can see your first theory. But the second I'm having a problem with. How wide is the balcony? How would someone "slide" Rebecca over railing without actually putting their own feet onto the balcony floor? In order to slide Rebecca over balcony railing, the perp(s) would have to be physically standing near the railing.

I also agree that no one committing suicide would go through such ridiculous, step-by-step, detailed, elaborate lengths just to hang themselves. NO WAY NO HOW. A distraught person would simply tie a noose around a shower bar or railing (NOT a bed), hang themselves from below, and be done. No need for all the fancy wrists- and ankles-binding, and t-shirt gag stuffed down throat, especially if they needed the use of their legs to RUN and JUMP over a balcony railing without leaving any prints/DNA. That's totally inconceivable and physically impossible to do by oneself -- which leads me to conclude some other people tied Rebecca up, and gagged her to keep her from yelling for HELP, and then threw Rebecca over, nude no less.

 

[Inparadise]

I can see your first theory. But the second I'm having a problem with. How wide is the balcony? How would someone "slide" Rebecca over railing without actually putting their own feet onto the balcony floor? In order to slide Rebecca over balcony railing, the perp(s) would have to be physically standing near the railing.

I also agree that no one committing suicide would go through such ridiculous, step-by-step, detailed, elaborate lengths just to hang themselves. NO WAY NO HOW. A distraught person would simply tie a noose around a shower bar or railing (NOT a bed), hang themselves from below, and be done. No need for all the fancy wrists- and ankles-binding, and t-shirt gag stuffed down throat, especially if they needed the use of their legs to RUN and JUMP over a balcony railing without leaving any prints/DNA. That's totally inconceivable and physically impossible to do by oneself -- which leads me to conclude some other people tied Rebecca up, and gagged her to keep her from yelling for HELP, and then threw Rebecca over, nude no less.

The balcony is quite small.....you can see in the pics I posted of the remodeled Spreckels.......the distance from the door sill to the edge of the balcony (depth) is maybe 18 inches, and there is a 2 to 3 inch drop from the sill to the balcony surface, which makes it even more unlikely that Rebecca went over by herself. IMO, she never went over the balcony, but it was made to look like she did.

 

[Betty P]

The balcony is quite small.....you can see in the pics I posted of the remodeled Spreckels.......the distance from the door sill to the edge of the balcony (depth) is maybe 18 inches, and there is a 2 to 3 inch drop from the sill to the balcony surface, which makes it even more unlikely that Rebecca went over by herself. IMO, she never went over the balcony, but it was made to look like she did.

Carioca posted a PDF copy of Valhall's geometric analysis of the balcony and alleged hanging. She calculated the width of the balcony at 24 inches.

It's worth the read, explains some impossibilities WRT RZ jumping from the balcony, bound, on her own.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9680550&postcount=1798"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The case for murder[/ame]

 

[cynic]

On another note, thank you Cynic for all the hard work...

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[cynic]

Carioca posted a PDF copy of Valhall's geometric analysis of the balcony and alleged hanging. She calculated the width of the balcony at 24 inches.

It's worth the read, explains some impossibilities WRT RZ jumping from the balcony, bound, on her own.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The case for murder

The balcony is definitely 24” deep.

My full analysis of the balcony, FWIW, can be found on the following thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149545"]The footprints/shoeprints on the balcony - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7148975&postcount=17"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The footprints/shoeprints on the balcony[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7157773&postcount=30"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The footprints/shoeprints on the balcony[/ame]

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[*Lash*]

I can see your first theory. But the second I'm having a problem with. How wide is the balcony? How would someone "slide" Rebecca over railing without actually putting their own feet onto the balcony floor? In order to slide Rebecca over balcony railing, the perp(s) would have to be physically standing near the railing.

I also agree that no one committing suicide would go through such ridiculous, step-by-step, detailed, elaborate lengths just to hang themselves. NO WAY NO HOW. A distraught person would simply tie a noose around a shower bar or railing (NOT a bed), hang themselves from below, and be done. No need for all the fancy wrists- and ankles-binding, and t-shirt gag stuffed down throat, especially if they needed the use of their legs to RUN and JUMP over a balcony railing without leaving any prints/DNA. That's totally inconceivable and physically impossible to do by oneself -- which leads me to conclude some other people tied Rebecca up, and gagged her to keep her from yelling for HELP, and then threw Rebecca over, nude no less.

Hi Bourne!

How wide is the balcony?

My understanding the balcony was/is 24 inches deep.

How would someone "slide" Rebecca over railing without actually putting their own feet onto the balcony floor?

Rebecca weighed 100lbs and was 63 1/2 inches tall. The length of her body was almost 40 inches longer than the 24 inch depth of the balcony. Rebecca's beautiful body was more than 2x longer than the balcony. In my opinion, since Becky's body was constrained this likely made it easier to manipulate her mere 100 lb body. I also believe she was likely unconscious and not struggling with the perp(s). Almost as easy as a resting a 63 inch piece of 4x4 wood against the railing and the bedroom floor. I believe the perps may have leaned her upper body against the railing before picking up her feet and sliding the rest of her body over the balcony. The perp would never have to step on to the balcony and from all appearances it would look like Becky leaned over the railing head first.

I hope that helps. I'm not an expert by any means, just a theory. I believe the autopsy report proves Becky's body suffered a 9'2 drop. I have continuously tried to imagine how the drop occurred. These are the two theories that make the most sense to me, hoisted then dropped or slid over the railing.

 

[*Lash*]

Looking at this image of the balcony, you can see a black shoe by the carpet door entry. It is a small balcony. In my opinion, it would be so easy for a perp to stand RZ upright where the footprints can be seen and lean her body against the railing until the perp was able to pick her up by her feet and slide RZ over the railing. In my theory she may have been placed on her side or during the lifting some of RZ touched the railing.

I also believe the prints may belong to someone totally different. I can easily see a teen or child playing hide and seek. Right outside the balcony door would be a perfect hiding spot. Standing still as not to be seen or heard. I still cannot comprehend why SDSO did not take actual footprints.

 

[cynic]

What I found to be helpful in considering what may have happened in this case is to “map” out the balcony on a floor in my home.
I would encourage you all to do so as well. If you do you, will find out how incredibly easy it is to be "invisible" on the balcony.
Take a tape measure and measure a 24” span.
Place one foot on one end and step across. Easy isn’t it?
All a person would have to do to create the illusion of never having been on the balcony is to keep one foot inside and put the other foot into one of the numerous gaps in the railing.
There is no need, whatsoever, to set foot on the floor of the balcony at all.

 

[cynic]

What I find difficult with any theory involving Rebecca being on top of the rail is that the photographic evidence doesn’t support it.
I acknowledge that pictures can “lie” because of improper lighting, exposure and other factors, but if the pictures that we have are representative of reality, then I find it extremely difficult to believe that Rebecca’s body was ever on that rail.
I came across a screen capture I took from Valhall’s video.
You can see how her body envelops the top of chair. If she was on top of the railing there would be a considerable area that would be completely wiped clean.
Compare that to what we see on the rail.

The areas that are wiped clean are as follows:
An approximately 3” area – from 18.25 to 21.25 inches on the “ruler.”
An approximately 1.25” area - from 27 to 28.25 inches on the “ruler.”
An approximately 1/2” area – from 32 to 32.5 inches on the “ruler.”

 

[bourne]

Hi Bourne!

How wide is the balcony?

My understanding the balcony was/is 24 inches deep.

How would someone "slide" Rebecca over railing without actually putting their own feet onto the balcony floor?

Rebecca weighed 100lbs and was 63 1/2 inches tall. The length of her body was almost 40 inches longer than the 24 inch depth of the balcony. Rebecca's beautiful body was more than 2x longer than the balcony. In my opinion, since Becky's body was constrained this likely made it easier to manipulate her mere 100 lb body. I also believe she was likely unconscious and not struggling with the perp(s). Almost as easy as a resting a 63 inch piece of 4x4 wood against the railing and the bedroom floor. I believe the perps may have leaned her upper body against the railing before picking up her feet and sliding the rest of her body over the balcony. The perp would never have to step on to the balcony and from all appearances it would look like Becky leaned over the railing head first.

I hope that helps. I'm not an expert by any means, just a theory. I believe the autopsy report proves Becky's body suffered a 9'2 drop. I have continuously tried to imagine how the drop occurred. These are the two theories that make the most sense to me, hoisted then dropped or slid over the railing.

Thanks for the info on the "width" or as Cynic put it the "depth" of the balcony. I did not realize it was so small -- only 24"! That's one tiny balcony. We have balconies in one of our homes and they're huge. We can have a whole group of people sunbathe with lounge chairs, and even have a BBQ grill to cook on our balconies!

What I'd like to know is how high was the dust that was found on Rebecca's thigh/hip? And whether that dust on her body coincides with where Rebecca's body had been "leaned" sideways against the balcony?

Here are my theories about how Rebecca ended up over the balcony railing:
1) Two people were standing at the balcony doors, and both wearing gloves, held Rebecca -- one at her ankles and other at the shoulders -- and swung her over the balcony railing.
2) Then upon second thought, because of Dina and Nina's hatred of Rebecca, I don't think either would to touch a nude Rebecca so they likely had Adam throw her over the balcony, OR Rebecca was hogtied, and two of these three defendants grabbed the rope and swung Rebecca's body over the balcony.

I think the dust that was found on Rebecca's thigh was an inadvertent (unintentional) result of the murderer(s) swinging her and misjudging how high they had to throw and thus, Rebecca scraped against the railing...

However, upon second thought now, after hearing Lash's theory about the leaning, maybe it was a calculated move on part of the murderer(s) to make sure Rebecca's DNA was found on the balcony railing...

 

[bourne]

What I found to be helpful in considering what may have happened in this case is to “map” out the balcony on a floor in my home.
I would encourage you all to do so as well. If you do you, will find out how incredibly easy it is to be "invisible" on the balcony.
Take a tape measure and measure a 24” span.
Place one foot on one end and step across. Easy isn’t it?
All a person would have to do to create the illusion of never having been on the balcony is to keep one foot inside and put the other foot into one of the numerous gaps in the railing.
There is no need, whatsoever, to set foot on the floor of the balcony at all.

Thanks for painting this vivid picture out so clearly for us, Cynic!

Now it looks like that male figure could indeed have been Adam straddling the balcony railing and the balcony doorway and that he was the one who tossed/pushed/shoved/leaned Rebecca sideways on the balcony railing, and then shoved Rebecca over. Of course, it could also be a woman like Dina because Dina looks like a very strong quarterback, like twice Rebecca's size, and Dina could have easily leaned Rebecca onto the railing, and then shoved her over like a sack of tied up potatoes.

Had investigators bothered to dust/forensically examine the balcony areas where you circled in yellow, they might have found DNA/prints of Rebecca's murderer(s).

 

[Betty P]

What I found to be helpful in considering what may have happened in this case is to “map” out the balcony on a floor in my home.
I would encourage you all to do so as well. If you do you, will find out how incredibly easy it is to be "invisible" on the balcony.
Take a tape measure and measure a 24” span.
Place one foot on one end and step across. Easy isn’t it?
All a person would have to do to create the illusion of never having been on the balcony is to keep one foot inside and put the other foot into one of the numerous gaps in the railing.
There is no need, whatsoever, to set foot on the floor of the balcony at all.

Ok, I just tried something similar at home. I put a 2 foot stick measure on the floor and placed my feet at either end, the right one a little farther with my foot turned to the right, as if putting it on the railing. I'm only 5 ft. 1 in and that's not an uncomfortable stance for me, no problems with balance, etc. I could easily hold and toss a heavy object over a railing in that stance. If I can do it at 5ft 1 in, a person much taller than me could do so easily. I had my 5 ft 10 in son try it, and he said yes, he could handle it easily.

I also stood at the end of the ruler and placed my feet together, put my arms behind my back and tried to hop forward 18 inches while landing on my toes. It's difficult to do without losing your balance.

Also, if you were trying to bind yourself up, nude, to commit suicide by jumping over a balcony, why would you try to jump all the way across the balcony in one leap when you could take a couple of hops to reach the railing more easily?

 

[Serpico]

The neighbor 2 doors down that heard Screams and HELP HELP (Ann Rule's book - pages 210-211) at 11:40 pm. I strongly believe the voice was Rebecca's and it could've only come from 3 locations.
#1 - balcony - ruled that out because the captor(s) wouldn't have left her alone long enough to scream and yell HELP -HELP plus the balcony door wasn't opened until later in the early am hours.
#2- courtyard - if Rebecca escaped her captor(s) on the 2nd floor then she hysterically ran down the stairs with a quick decision - turn RIGHT to the backdoor/courtyard and seek Adam's help or turn LEFT to the front door towards Ocean St. I ruled out courtyard because Adam said he never heard anything but that's not my main reason.
#3 - front porch area - this is where I believe Rebecca was screaming for HELP until subdued and taken back into the house via the front door. My question to Adam....why didn't Rebecca YELL - Adam -Adam - HELP -HELP unless it was Adam that RZ was running away from...hmm.

 

[Inparadise]

The neighbor 2 doors down that heard Screams and HELP HELP (Ann Rule's book - pages 210-211) at 11:40 pm. I strongly believe the voice was Rebecca's and it could've only come from 3 locations.
#1 - balcony - ruled that out because the captor(s) wouldn't have left her alone long enough to scream and yell HELP -HELP plus the balcony door wasn't opened until later in the early am hours.
#2- courtyard - if Rebecca escaped her captor(s) on the 2nd floor then she hysterically ran down the stairs with a quick decision - turn RIGHT to the backdoor/courtyard and seek Adam's help or turn LEFT to the front door towards Ocean St. I ruled out courtyard because Adam said he never heard anything but that's not my main reason.
#3 - front porch area - this is where I believe Rebecca was screaming for HELP until subdued and taken back into the house via the front door. My question to Adam....why didn't Rebecca YELL - Adam -Adam - HELP -HELP unless it was Adam that RZ was running away from...hmm.

Another possible location was the large patio area adjacent to the master bedroom suite.......

 

[Mr Spock]

If she was attacked in the back shower, would the shorter staircase not take her to the butler pantry area? That could be closer to the back doors and central courtyard.

 

[Betty P]

Another possible location was the large patio area adjacent to the master bedroom suite.......

Considering that scenario, I took one of the floor plan drawings from the realtor.com site for the Spreckels listing and did some very amateurish drawing. I took the liberty of adding the patio area off the MBR sitting room.

It seems plausible they surprised her coming out of the shower, then chased her onto the patio. Do I have the correct locations for the crime scene in the house?

 

[Serpico]

If she was attacked in the back shower, would the shorter staircase not take her to the butler pantry area? That could be closer to the back doors and central courtyard.

Do we have any pictures or diagrams of this shorter staircase....can't visualize but sounds plausible. Let me try to timeline this:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tuesday Night - 7/12/11
----------------------------
9:53 pm - last message/text to sister Mary
10:00-10:05pm - Romano sister identified by witness as DINA rings door bell and is pacing back and forth from front porch to driveway. NINA claims it was her at the front porch but after looking at photos of both sisters...witness is adamant that he saw DINA.
10:05-10:10 pm - NINA claims she walked down driveway near back gate and the only light on in the main house was back bedroom 2nd floor.This is puzzling
because if you accept Gore's theory that RZ didn't put together this elaborate suicide plan until after she listened to JS hearsay phone message at 12:50 am -Wed. Why would there be a light on in that 2nd floor guest bedroom almost 3 hours earlier when she was more than likely in her main bedroom during phone/text messages to sister Mary.
10:10pm -10:30pm - I would think that RZ was under watchful eye and caution of the Romano sisters....the day before a CPD Officer taking RZ's sister to get stitches on her cut leg overheard RZ saying,"Dina is going to kill me." NINA arrives the next day and seems a bit agitated throughout her stay and very suspicious of RZ despite RZ saying she didn't witness the fall. This is WHY I believe RZ locked the backdoor after she got back from dinner and left AS as he was heading to the guesthouse. If RZ didn't lock the backdoor then....she certainly would've done so when the door bell kept ringing at 10:00pm given she was going to be all ALONE for the first time in the mansion.
I suspect that sometime between 10:00pm -10:30pm that RZ took a shower before going to bed...she had to be exhausted given her last 36 hours or so.
10:30pm - 11:40pm - this seems to be the timetable when Rebecca was confronted by her captor(s) / murderer(s). The clump of black hair that clung to the wall of shower, blood on shower floor, blood on carpet,blood on white/green towel (Ann Rule book - page 219) then RZ escaped her captor(s) just before 11:40pm to run outside and SCREAM and then YELL - HELP - HELP as the neighbor 2 doors away which would've been possibly 1039 Ocean Blvd heard those desperate pleas at 11:40pm......70 minutes BEFORE Gore's theory that RZ picked up that hearsay phone message at 12:50 am.
Statement Problems
-----------------------------
1- NINA claiming to be the person at the front porch at 10:00pm Tuesday night despite eyewitness stating it was her sister DINA. Then you have NINA saying that guest bedroom light was on at about 10:05 pm which makes no sense at that time Tuesday night.
2- Elderly neighbor with tv on heard screams over the audio 2 houses away at 11:40 pm yet Adam staying in the guesthouse property didn't hear anything while he supposedly took the sleeping pill Ambien before retiring.
3- If you believe Gore's theory and ME Jonathan Lucas as to the WHY RZ would go to all the trouble with the intricate rope knots on back of hands, bound feet and GAG in mouth because she didn't want to be stopped or change her mind then why didn't she just do all this from the "railing area' where Max fell over? Why would RZ know Adam took an Ambien sleeping pill and not hear anything as she supposedly went into the garage and retrieved the long red towing rope without disturbing Adam or leaving any footprints in the garage not to mention having the balcony door open with the light on that could awake Adam....doesn't make sense. I should also mention that candle(s) were found on the grass just outside the guesthouse where Adam was staying.

Now getting back to the RZ's route of escape.....if in fact this route was taken then once again why didn't the neighbor 2 doors away hear RZ screaming for ADAM -HELP rather than just HELP-HELP ?

 

[*Lash*]

IIRC their was an open window in the bathroom next to the hanging room. I've always wondered if the screams for help could be heard coming from that window.

Another thing I keep forgetting. We learned in Rule's book the guest room was also used as a computer room.

“On July 13, Deputy Pearce examined a Hewlett-Packard laptop computer, whose only active user account was Rebecca Zahau, and an iMac computer whose single user account was Jonah Shacknai. Both of the computers were from the guest room/computer room with the balcony where Becky Zahau had allegedly hung herself. He also had her Samsung cell phone.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”