The case for murder

[Serpico]

IIRC their was an open window in the bathroom next to the hanging room. I've always wondered if the screams for help could be heard coming from that window.

Another thing I keep forgetting. We learned in Rule's book the guest room was also used as a computer room.

“On July 13, Deputy Pearce examined a Hewlett-Packard laptop computer, whose only active user account was Rebecca Zahau, and an iMac computer whose single user account was Jonah Shacknai. Both of the computers were from the guest room/computer room with the balcony where Becky Zahau had allegedly hung herself. He also had her Samsung cell phone.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”

Yes, I'm aware that was the computer room but I don't recall SDSO mentioning the computer being used at that hour that NINA claiming to see a light on.I'll try to search to find the specific time(s).

 

[Zinn]

IIRC their was an open window in the bathroom next to the hanging room. I've always wondered if the screams for help could be heard coming from that window.

Another thing I keep forgetting. We learned in Rule's book the guest room was also used as a computer room.

“On July 13, Deputy Pearce examined a Hewlett-Packard laptop computer, whose only active user account was Rebecca Zahau, and an iMac computer whose single user account was Jonah Shacknai. Both of the computers were from the guest room/computer room with the balcony where Becky Zahau had allegedly hung herself. He also had her Samsung cell phone.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”

I think it's possible to hear someone screaming inside their house, even from two houses away, depending on the type of windows (single paned, double paned) and whether any were open. On the other hand, given the dirty feet, I wonder if perhaps Rebecca was threatened by someone other than AS and then chose to run toward the guesthouse instead of the street with the belief AS was in the guesthouse and would help her. In such a panic, I don't think it's a given that she would've screamed "Help, Adam" even if she was directing her screams at him.

Yet another possible scenario would be that Rebecca was attacked in the guesthouse and ran into the courtyard screaming for help, dirtying her feet in the process.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Betty P]

I've been confused about the bathroom RZ used to take her shower. It's often suggested that she showered in the back bathroom, but

According to Sheriff Gore, she was in the Master Bedroom shower, he refers to it as the location where a spot of blood was found.

Why didn’t we process the blood in the shower?

The condition of the master bedroom lead investigators to believe Rebecca may have been in the shower during the time leading up to her death. The blood drop was very small, and there was evidence Rebecca was experiencing menstrual bleeding, or “spotting,” at the time. Similar blood drops were found outside the door leading to the guest room where the incident occurred. Those samples were tested, and they were found to be from Rebecca. Since the master bedroom is in another part of the mansion, and there was no evidence at the scene of the event suggesting anyone else was bleeding other than Rebecca, this item was not tested.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

Is there some other information that points to RZ taking a shower in the back bathroom, near the balcony bedroom?

 

[screecher]

Yes. He also said the blood was on the wall IIRC.

 

[*Lash*]

I've been confused about the bathroom RZ used to take her shower. It's often suggested that she showered in the back bathroom, but

According to Sheriff Gore, she was in the Master Bedroom shower, he refers to it as the location where a spot of blood was found.

I've never seen or heard anything from LE suggesting RZ showered in the guest bathroom. In my opinion, RZ showered in the master bedroom. The quote from the SDSO FAQ's seems pretty clear. Wow, did I just say SDSO was clear? :facepalm:

 

[Betty P]

Looking at RZ's timeline of activity the night of her death:

9:00 PM – Nina leaves the hospital. She uses Jonah's car to drive to Dina's home.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

9:24 PM – text message out to Mary
9:25 PM – outgoing 1 min phone call to Mary
9:40 PM – text message out to Mary

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

9:41 PM – Nina alleges she sent Rebecca a text message. Nina asks if she can drop by to talk about “what happened” to Max. Rebecca never responds. *The text message appears on Rebecca's cell phone records at 10:41 PM.*

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3
RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/r...-rebecca-zahau

9:44 PM – text message in from Mary
9:48 PM – 2 text messages out to Mary
9:52 PM – text message in from Mary
9:53 PM – text message in from Mary
9:53 PM – text message out to Mary

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

This is the last verified communication or activity of RZ

9:55 PM – Nina Romano, after not getting a response from her text to Rebecca, decides to walk to the mansion. Nina wants to talk to Rebecca.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

10:00 PM – Nina arrives at the mansion. No one answers the door. Nina has a look around the property and sees a light on in the 'suicide room'. Nina returns to Dina's home.


NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

The 'death room' was used as a computer room by RZ and JS, according to Ann Rule's book. Since no computer activity took place on RZ's computer from 9-11 pm, (next RZ computer activity was at 3:30 am, the next morning) why would Nina see a light on in that room? RZ had no reason to be there.

10:20 PM – A witness claims to see Dina Shacknai at the Spreckles mansion. SDSO dismisses it as Nina Romano.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/e...mansion-deaths

10:41 PM – A text message in from Nina received on Rebecca's phone. *This contradicts Nina's claim that the text was sent at 9:41 PM.*

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3
RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/r...-rebecca-zahau

11:30 PM – An anonymous “source” claims to hear someone scream “help” from or near the mansion. SDSO dismisses it as kids on the beach.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/s...ounts-reported
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2AaqkgX4j

At this point, after texting with her sister, RZ is taking a shower in the MB bath or has completed her shower and is already in bed on the opposite side of the house from the 'death room'. A witness (neighbor) claims to have heard someone scream for Help.

Did SDSO ever say whether her bed was unmade or not?

The suicide scenario just doesn't fit. RZ would have showered in the MB after talking to her sister at around 10 - 11 pm, as Nina and/or Dina were wandering around outside the mansion (10 - 10:20 pm). RZ's time of death was calculated to be between 1:30 am and 3:00 am the next morning. Was it possible that NR and/or DR went to Adam's room in the guest house first, before ambushing RZ at around 11:30 pm, dragging her from the MB area to the 'death room'?

If RZ were in the MB area contemplating suicide, why wouldn't she have gone to the 2nd story patio/balcony off the MB, instead of going all the way across the house to another room?

 

[Serpico]

Yes, I'm aware that was the computer room but I don't recall SDSO mentioning the computer being used at that hour that NINA claiming to see a light on.I'll try to search to find the specific time(s).

Anne Rule's book page 266.....:*advertiser censored* sites were allegedly accessed July 12,13."

Anne Bremner, the 2011 Attorney for the Zahau family, stated the July 12,2011 searches for rape,asian woman,anime bondage were possibly accessed by SW Airline account but nothing was ever followed up on that statement. Why Anne Bremner?

July 13,2011 RZ computer....there was again some rumblings about a 3:00am time but dismissed as an automatic tune-up or something but again a KEY ASPECT of this death case without definitive confirmation.

So I'm right back to the simple question,"why did NINA say a light was on in the guest bedroom 2nd floor at 10:00pm Tuesday night (nearly 90-150 minutes BEFORE RZ allegedly listened to JS Grave news about Max's condition) ? RZ , by all accounts, was in her master bedroom and Adam never made mention of any light being on in that guest bedroom on the 2nd floor before he went to bed or when he awoke at around 3:00am." I sure would like to know why NINA wasn't asked to come back for that polygraph test when she cancelled Friday.

Just seems when Max died Friday/Saturday......the RZ Case switched to primarily a Suicide case and anything relating to the homicide possibility was not followed up on or dismissed. Adam should've been arrested after his inconsistent statements and not passing the polygraph, both Dina and Nina should've taken a polygraph, the bicyclist eyewitness and the neighbor 2 doors down that heard the screams and plea for HELP weren't actively pursued by SDSO investigators. Why? Is this where JS Attorney Pfingst's close friend and current advisor to Gore - Greg Thompson controlled the direction of the RZ Investigation?

 

[Serpico]

I think it's possible to hear someone screaming inside their house, even from two houses away, depending on the type of windows (single paned, double paned) and whether any were open. On the other hand, given the dirty feet, I wonder if perhaps Rebecca was threatened by someone other than AS and then chose to run toward the guesthouse instead of the street with the belief AS was in the guesthouse and would help her. In such a panic, I don't think it's a given that she would've screamed "Help, Adam" even if she was directing her screams at him.

Yet another possible scenario would be that Rebecca was attacked in the guesthouse and ran into the courtyard screaming for help, dirtying her feet in the process.

All of the above is just my opinion.

I respectfully disagree...given that Adam was the only other person on the property ....if she thought Adam could help she would've YELLED Adam's name in a panic given she didn't have time to knock on his door.The "dirty feet" or "caked" soles of her feet could've come from the dirt underneath the balcony near those 2 plants. Do we know when the automatic sprinklers came on? I say that because I don't believe Adam's story and do not believe RZ died hanging from the balcony.

 

[Quester]

Blue Mossimo tshirt example:

http://www.target.com/p/mossimo-sup...1910#prodSlot=medium_1_33&term=mossimo+tshirt

Mossimo Supply Co. Juniors Long Sleeve Scoop Neck Tee - Assorted Colors

Looks like a similar color to the item found on RZ. IIRC, the size was stated as "Large" - if so, and was in "Juniors" sizes, that might explain why petite RZ had a large size, providing of course it was her tshirt. JMO

 

[bourne]

I respectfully disagree...given that Adam was the only other person on the property ....if she thought Adam could help she would've YELLED Adam's name in a panic given she didn't have time to knock on his door.The "dirty feet" or "caked" soles of her feet could've come from the dirt underneath the balcony near those 2 plants. Do we know when the automatic sprinklers came on? I say that because I don't believe Adam's story and do not believe RZ died hanging from the balcony.

Unless we can read Rebecca's mind that night or we were the eye- or ear-witnesses or the actual murderer(s) to Rebecca's assault/murder, we probably will never know whether or not Rebecca screamed out "Adam, HELP ME".

Does anyone even know whether they had turned on automatic sprinklers? Remember the ADT alarm system was turned off, for some reason that night Rebecca was murdered too. And according to Ann Rule's book, the back door to the main house of the Spreckels mansion is well-known by the defendants to be left UNLOCKED...Seems like a lot of convergence of events...too much to be a coincidence, at least in my mind.

I'm going with Dr. Wecht and the original ME's reports as well as K_Z's assessment here that Rebecca was alive when she was hung over the balcony, and that she died as a result of a hanging.

What do you think is Rebecca's cause of death if not by hanging, or strangulation, and then hanging?

 

[Serpico]

Unless we can read Rebecca's mind that night or we were the eye- or ear-witnesses or the actual murderer(s) to Rebecca's assault/murder, we probably will never know whether or not Rebecca screamed out "Adam, HELP ME".

Does anyone even know whether they had turned on automatic sprinklers? Remember the ADT alarm system was turned off, for some reason that night Rebecca was murdered too. And according to Ann Rule's book, the back door to the main house of the Spreckels mansion is well-known by the defendants to be left UNLOCKED...Seems like a lot of convergence of events...too much to be a coincidence, at least in my mind.

I'm going with Dr. Wecht and the original ME's reports as well as K_Z's assessment here that Rebecca was alive when she was hung over the balcony, and that she died as a result of a hanging.

What do you think is Rebecca's cause of death if not by hanging, or strangulation, and then hanging?

The neighbor witness heard screams and HELP HELP......that's why I brought up the Adam omission.

The reason I don't think RZ was hung over the balcony.....primarily because there are too many holes in Adam's account of what he did,etc. There is also some injuries that weren't present for a sudden fall of that distance.

I read a poster on Reality Chatter...think his name is Weggo or something and he made a strong impression on me with his opinion that RZ was strangled with one of the paint brushes used in the process (ligature) while RZ was bound in the white wicker chair which was tipped over and RZ may have been dead for a period of time in this tipped over wicker chair which would explain why the blood settled the way it did in her body.

The backdoor was always unlocked during the day but not confirmed it was left unlocked at night and given the circumstances of Rebecca being ALONE for the first time in that big house/mansion and the Romano sisters nearby.....why keep it unlocked with no children around?

 

[bourne]

The neighbor witness heard screams and HELP HELP......that's why I brought up the Adam omission.

The reason I don't think RZ was hung over the balcony.....primarily because there are too many holes in Adam's account of what he did,etc. There is also some injuries that weren't present for a sudden fall of that distance.

I read a poster on Reality Chatter...think his name is Weggo or something and he made a strong impression on me with his opinion that RZ was strangled with one of the paint brushes used in the process (ligature) while RZ was bound in the white wicker chair which was tipped over and RZ may have been dead for a period of time in this tipped over wicker chair which would explain why the blood settled the way it did in her body.

The backdoor was always unlocked during the day but not confirmed it was left unlocked at night and given the circumstances of Rebecca being ALONE for the first time in that big house/mansion and the Romano sisters nearby.....why keep it unlocked with no children around?

It could be that Rebecca did scream out "Adam, HELP" but ear-witnesses didn't hear the "Adam" part because they didn't know him and were not on the lookout to hear "Adam" so that word was filtered out and what they heard was "[mumble word], HELP. HELP". I think everyone has been conditioned to hear "HELP" or "FIRE" so it's easier to catch those words than a person's name.

My problem with the paintbrush strangle scenario is that there would be obvious indentations of a paintbrush against her neck. That specific tool would have been, I would hope, easily distinguished from other ligature marks such as those made by rope...

However, judging from how many posters here believe the incompetence and lack of investigation went way beyond what is acceptable of LE, perhaps that could be the case that the paintbrush ligature marks were not identifiable to these (inept) SDLE investigators -- which is why I hope when the civil case against the SD county comes forward in Nov of this year that the physical evidence found at the crime scene would be handed over to the Zahaus and they can have their own forensic experts examine those same items. (Of course, we have to hope and pray that LE did not accidentally or intentionally wipe off any prints while they were examining those items...I suppose we just have to have a strong leap of faith that they didn't) .

I can see how backdoor was continued to be left unlock. From what we've known of Rebecca, she was a very considerate, helpful person. She likely did not want Jonah or Adam to have to trouble themselves with unlocking the door as they come into the main house (e.g., when Jonah returned from hospital to shower or get change of clothes, and Adam to get some food from main kitchen) so I don't think it was unusual for the backdoor to be unlocked for their convenience.

All these JMO.

 

[*Lash*]

I believe Serpico is referring to the paintbrush being used as a stick to fashion as a garrote. I don't know what would have been used to attach to the paintbrush.

A garrote or garrote vil (a Spanish word; alternative spellings include garotte and garrotte[1]) is a weapon, most often referring to a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line used to strangle a person.[2]

A stick may be used to tighten the garrote (the Spanish word actually refers to the stick itself) so it is a pars pro toto where the eponymous component may actually be absent. In Spanish, the term may also refer to a rope and stick used to constrict a limb as a torture device.[2][5

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote"]Garrote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Serpico]

I believe Serpico is referring to the paintbrush being used as a stick to fashion as a garrote. I don't know what would have been used to attach to the paintbrush.

A garrote or garrote vil (a Spanish word; alternative spellings include garotte and garrotte[1]) is a weapon, most often referring to a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line used to strangle a person.[2]

A stick may be used to tighten the garrote (the Spanish word actually refers to the stick itself) so it is a pars pro toto where the eponymous component may actually be absent. In Spanish, the term may also refer to a rope and stick used to constrict a limb as a torture device.[2][5

Garrote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, thank you.

 

[*Lash*]

Looking at RZ's timeline of activity the night of her death:

9:00 PM – Nina leaves the hospital. She uses Jonah's car to drive to Dina's home.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

9:24 PM – text message out to Mary
9:25 PM – outgoing 1 min phone call to Mary
9:40 PM – text message out to Mary

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

9:41 PM – Nina alleges she sent Rebecca a text message. Nina asks if she can drop by to talk about “what happened” to Max. Rebecca never responds. *The text message appears on Rebecca's cell phone records at 10:41 PM.*

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3
RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/r...-rebecca-zahau

9:44 PM – text message in from Mary
9:48 PM – 2 text messages out to Mary
9:52 PM – text message in from Mary
9:53 PM – text message in from Mary
9:53 PM – text message out to Mary

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

This is the last verified communication or activity of RZ

9:55 PM – Nina Romano, after not getting a response from her text to Rebecca, decides to walk to the mansion. Nina wants to talk to Rebecca.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

10:00 PM – Nina arrives at the mansion. No one answers the door. Nina has a look around the property and sees a light on in the 'suicide room'. Nina returns to Dina's home.


NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

The 'death room' was used as a computer room by RZ and JS, according to Ann Rule's book. Since no computer activity took place on RZ's computer from 9-11 pm, (next RZ computer activity was at 3:30 am, the next morning) why would Nina see a light on in that room? RZ had no reason to be there.

10:20 PM – A witness claims to see Dina Shacknai at the Spreckles mansion. SDSO dismisses it as Nina Romano.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/e...mansion-deaths

10:41 PM – A text message in from Nina received on Rebecca's phone. *This contradicts Nina's claim that the text was sent at 9:41 PM.*

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3
RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/r...-rebecca-zahau

11:30 PM – An anonymous “source” claims to hear someone scream “help” from or near the mansion. SDSO dismisses it as kids on the beach.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/s...ounts-reported
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2AaqkgX4j

At this point, after texting with her sister, RZ is taking a shower in the MB bath or has completed her shower and is already in bed on the opposite side of the house from the 'death room'. A witness (neighbor) claims to have heard someone scream for Help.

Did SDSO ever say whether her bed was unmade or not?

The suicide scenario just doesn't fit. RZ would have showered in the MB after talking to her sister at around 10 - 11 pm, as Nina and/or Dina were wandering around outside the mansion (10 - 10:20 pm). RZ's time of death was calculated to be between 1:30 am and 3:00 am the next morning. Was it possible that NR and/or DR went to Adam's room in the guest house first, before ambushing RZ at around 11:30 pm, dragging her from the MB area to the 'death room'?

If RZ were in the MB area contemplating suicide, why wouldn't she have gone to the 2nd story patio/balcony off the MB, instead of going all the way across the house to another room?

RBM - this is all I could find concerning the bed in the master bedroom. From Rule's book.

“And so was the master bedroom that Rebecca had reportedly shared with Jonah. It was much more lushly furnished than the small room with the balcony. In this master bedroom, small-sized women’s clothing—a pair of blue jeans, a white undershirt, and a black, long-sleeved top—were folded neatly on the bed.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”

 

[Serpico]

It could be that Rebecca did scream out "Adam, HELP" but ear-witnesses didn't hear the "Adam" part because they didn't know him and were not on the lookout to hear "Adam" so that word was filtered out and what they heard was "[mumble word], HELP. HELP". I think everyone has been conditioned to hear "HELP" or "FIRE" so it's easier to catch those words than a person's name.

My problem with the paintbrush strangle scenario is that there would be obvious indentations of a paintbrush against her neck. That specific tool would have been, I would hope, easily distinguished from other ligature marks such as those made by rope...

However, judging from how many posters here believe the incompetence and lack of investigation went way beyond what is acceptable of LE, perhaps that could be the case that the paintbrush ligature marks were not identifiable to these (inept) SDLE investigators -- which is why I hope when the civil case against the SD county comes forward in Nov of this year that the physical evidence found at the crime scene would be handed over to the Zahaus and they can have their own forensic experts examine those same items. (Of course, we have to hope and pray that LE did not accidentally or intentionally wipe off any prints while they were examining those items...I suppose we just have to have a strong leap of faith that they didn't) .

I can see how backdoor was continued to be left unlock. From what we've known of Rebecca, she was a very considerate, helpful person. She likely did not want Jonah or Adam to have to trouble themselves with unlocking the door as they come into the main house (e.g., when Jonah returned from hospital to shower or get change of clothes, and Adam to get some food from main kitchen) so I don't think it was unusual for the backdoor to be unlocked for their convenience.

All these JMO.

Why did the Romano sisters ask for Jonah's car Tuesday night? DINA drove NINA to Rady hospital Tuesday late afternoon and one of them was there all night. Why the need for Jonah's car? I wonder how many keys were on JS car key chain.....house keys maybe?

 

[bourne]

Why did the Romano sisters ask for Jonah's car Tuesday night? DINA drove NINA to Rady hospital Tuesday late afternoon and one of them was there all night. Why the need for Jonah's car? I wonder how many keys were on JS car key chain.....house keys maybe?

I didn't mention anything about cars in my post to yours. So not sure why you're directing these Q's about who used what car to me.

How do you know Nina stayed at the hospital the whole night? Was she captured on the hospital/RMH videos?

I never disputed anyone used Jonah's car.

I have no idea what's on JS' car keys? Perhaps when one of the defendants get on the stand they can address that, if that Q is asked by Zahau lawyer.

 

[bourne]

I believe Serpico is referring to the paintbrush being used as a stick to fashion as a garrote. I don't know what would have been used to attach to the paintbrush.

A garrote or garrote vil (a Spanish word; alternative spellings include garotte and garrotte[1]) is a weapon, most often referring to a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line used to strangle a person.[2]

A stick may be used to tighten the garrote (the Spanish word actually refers to the stick itself) so it is a pars pro toto where the eponymous component may actually be absent. In Spanish, the term may also refer to a rope and stick used to constrict a limb as a torture device.[2][5

Garrote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regardless, if paintbrush was used as a garrote, don't you think the paintbrush would show physical SIGNS of it being used as such?

 

[*Lash*]

I have never understood why the guest bedroom/office was used for the hanging. This is the reason I tend to believe after Rebecca showered in the MB she put on the blue shirt to sleep in, towel around her head and headed to the computer room. I understand there was no activity on the computer. I tend to believe she was surprised in that room or immediately after entering. I don't believe the room had any significance to Maxie's fall, so I've tried to understand why the room ended up being what I believe to be a crime scene. What other reason, if any, might the guest room have been significant?

 

[*Lash*]

Regardless, if paintbrush was used as a garrote, don't you think the paintbrush would show physical SIGNS of it being used as such?

It is not my personal belief the paintbrush was used as a garrote. However I do think many items could be used and not leave a trace on the brush. For example, fishing line. It also depends on how closely SDSO inspected the brush without the suicide bias.